What Is The Second Death?

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Christina

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WHAT IS THE SECOND DEATH?

"He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death." Revelation 2:11

"Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power."

Revelation 20:6 In his efforts to misrepresent the character of God to the human race, Satan has succeeded to a startling extent. Introduced into the minds of men and women by the "father of lies", many of the misconceptions about God have become encased in human philosophy and passed on from generation to generation.
They have penetrated all levels of human life, and have often been fostered even by the "Christian Church". Two of these false theories have had an especially strong hold on the human imagination. One is the idea that God is a god of anger and wrath, a cruel tyrant who has no reservations about subjecting His creatures to an eternally burning hell for failure to give perfect obedience to His arbitrary commands. But this is not the character of God.


"As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasurein the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from you evil ways; for why will ye die?" Ezekiel 33:11

The other idea pictures God as a kindly grandfather, who is too good to kill anyone.
This theory generally holds that all will be saved, regardless of their character in this life. But this casts God as a god who has neither the power nor the backbone to deal with the problem of evil.

But will God have to make a place for those who willingly destroy the peace and harmony of the universe for all eternity? Will He, along with those who love peace, be at the mercy of selfish and unscrupulous creatures for time without end? "The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgement to be punished." 2 Peter 2:9.
It may be pleasing to the carnal minds of men and women to imagine that they can live as sinfully as they like in this life and still be saved in the life to come, but the Bible simply does not support this idea. Jesus said:

"Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat." Matthew 7:13

There will be a day of judgement for those who continue in rebellion against the principles of God's government. And thet will be a punishment as a result of that judgement. The Bible calls that punishment the "Second Death."

"And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:14,15.

What is this lake of fire and the second death that is said to be its result? Will the fire burn forever? Will those who are thrown there live in conscious torment for all eternity?

For the answer, we must again allow the Bible to speak for itself. The scriptures use a great variety of exp​ressions and images to describe the experience of second death. Read the following list carefully, paying special attention to the undelined phrases. In these are contained the secret of the "Second Death."

"For evildoers shall be cut off: but those that wait upon the Lord, they shall inherit the earth." Psalm 37:9.

"For a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be." Psalm 37:10.

"But the wicked shall perish, and the enemies of the the Lord shall be as the fat of lambs: they shall consume; into smoke shall they consume away." Psalm 37:20.

"I have seen the wicked in great power, and spreading himself like a green bay tree. Yet he passed away, and, lo, he was not: yea, I sought him, but he could not be found." Psalm 37:35,36.

"Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more." Psalm 104:35.

"Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be." Psalm 59:13.

"The Lord preserveth all them that love him: but all the wicked will he destroy." Psalm 145:20.

"Thine hand shall find out all thine enemies: thy right hand shall find out those that hate thee. Thou shalt make them as a fiery oven in the time of thine anger: the Lord shall swallow them up in his wrath, and the fire shall devour them." Psalm 21:8,9.

"When the wicked spring as the grass, and when the workers of iniquity do flourish; it is that they shall be destroyed forever." Psalm 92:7.

"For the day of the Lord is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head. For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been." Obadiah 16

"And the destruction of the transgressors and of the sinners shall be together, and they that forsake the Lord shall be consumed." Isaiah 1:28.

"Behold, all they that were incensed against thee shall be consumed and confounded: they shall be as nothing; and they that strive with thee shall perish. Thou shalt seek them, and shalt not find them, even them that contended with thee: they that way against thee shall be as nothing, and as a thing of nought." Isaiah 41:11,12.

"For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the rpoud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be as stubble; and the day cometh that shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch." Malachi 4:1.

"The wicked are overthrown, and are not: but the house of the righeous shall stand." Proverbs 12:7.

"Do you not know this from of old, since man was placed upon the earth, that the exulting of the wicked is short, and the joy of the godless but for a moment? Though his height mount up to the heavens, and his head reach to the clouds, he will perish forever like his own dung; those who have seen him will say, 'Where is he?' He will fly away like a dream, and not be found; he will be chased away like a vision of the night. The eye which saw him will see him no more, nor will his place any more behold him." Job 20:4-9 R.S.V.

Phrases such as "destroyed forever", "perish", and "consume away", are often used to describe the final state of the lost. These terms are more significant when we are clear as to what they mean. Notice the following definitions from "The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language":

destroy - 1. To ruin completely; spoil so that restoration is impossible; consume 2. To tear down or break up; raze; demolish. 3. To do away with; get rid of; put an end to. 4. To kill . . .

perish - 1. To die, especially in a violent or untimely manner. 2. To pass from existence; disappear gradually.

consume - 1. To destroy, as by fire. 2. To use up or waste (time, energy, money, etc.). 3. To drink or eat up; devour. v.i. to waste away; perish.

Notice that all of these have the concept of something put out of existence.While it may seem that the above list of texts is rather long, actually it is only a sample of the many phrases, descriptions, and images that are used in both Testaments of the Bible to describe the experience of the "second death." When we put all of these passages together, three conclusions stand out clearly in regard to the second death:

1. The final punishment (second death) consists of death by fire, or burning.

"And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire." Revelation 20:15.
". . . and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them." Revelation 20:9.

"The earth and all the inhabitants thereof are dissolved." Psalm 75:3.

"But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works therin shall be burned up. Seeing that all these things shall be dissolved . . . Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:10,11,13

. "The Lord will swallow them up in his wrath; and fire will consume them." Psalm 21:9.

2. The end result of this punishment will be "death", i.e. nonexistence.

"The soul that sinneth, it shall die." Ezekiel 18:4.
"For the wages of sin is death." Romans 6:23.

"They shall be as though they had not been." Obadiah 16.


3. The permanent effect of this punishment will be eternal nonexistence.

"they shall be destroyed forever." Psalm 92:7.
"When the tempest passes, the wicked is no more, but the righteous is established for ever." Proverbs 10:25.WHAT ABOUT EVERLASTING FIRE?
Some believe that the wicked are doomed to burn consciously foever because the Bible speaks of "everlasting fire." Notice the following verse that contains the exp​ression "eternal fire."

"Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.

Are Sodom and Gomorrha still burning today? Listen to the words of the apostle Peter:

". . . by turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha to ashes he condemned them to extinction and made them an example to those who were to be ungodly." 2 Peter 2:6 R.S.V.

Sodom and Gomorrha are not burning today. Their destruction by fire was intended to be an example for all mankind of what will ultimately happen to all the wicked of all ages; not eternal torture, but eternal extinction. The fire is said to be everlasting because it is the ultimate exp​ression of God's hatred of sin. God will always hate sin and its effect on His creation. If He were to ever change His atttude toward sin in the future, then He would be unjust for applying stiff penalties for it now. But His attitude will never change. "For I am the Lord, I change not;" Malachi 3:6. The fire of God's wrath will always burn against sin. Right will always be right, and wrong will always be wrong. Love and mercy will always find approval in the sight of God, and selfishness will always be condemned.

IS GOD ALWAYS RIGHT?
God's wrath will always be directed against sin. Does that mean that God is always angry? Anyone who has ever gotten between a mother bear and her cub knows what it is like when a bear gets angry. Hidden cameras have revealed that bears are not angry all the time. They are normally docile and doting parents. It is the presence of an intruder that arouses their anger. Sin is an intruder, a constant threat to God's loyal children. And anyone or anything that lifts a finger against God's children is threatening "the apple of His eye." Zechariah 2:8 When sin is put out of existence, God will not continue in a state of anger. his anger would return only if sin were to return to provoke it. And that will never happen again. The prophet Nahum promises, "He will make an utter end: affliction shall not rise up the second time." Nahum 1:9. In order for sin to re-enter the universe, it would have to enter through the mind of one of God's creatures by an act of free will. After the demonstration that we are witnessing and experiencing at the present time, none will ever again make that choice.

WHO'S BURNING NOW?
Revelation 20:4-9 gives us the order of events to take place in the universe from the second coming of Christ till the destruction of the wicked. These two events are separated by the millennium; 1,000 years of peace, during which the righteous are in heaven with Christ. Only after this period is over will the wicked be subjected to the "lake of fire." None are burning today. The apostle Peter states that "the heavens and the earth are now kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgement and perdition of ungodly men." 2 Peter 3:7.
There is a day of final reckoning. The second death will be a reality. But beyond that we can share the hope of Peter: "Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness." 2 Peter 3:13. How does God view the second death? He is "not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance." 2 Peter 3:9.
 

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I agree 100% with the spirit and flavor of the initial post for this thread.

I also feel that many will fail to understand that God is VERY interesting in reconciliation.
So much so, in fact, that He suffered and died a gruesome public execution on our behalf to enable it.

The uninitiated need to understand that there is a spiritual component to life as well as an intellectual and emotional one.
One must also understand that as humans we are bound by the laws of the universe as God has made them.
In the spiritual realm as well as the physical life, one such law dictates that we will bear the consequences of our actions.

God is not willing that any should suffer the second death - eternity beyond His presence. To that end He has provided
a way of escape from judgment, punishment and His wrath.
The way is Jesus and all a man or woman has to do is surrender to Him.

It is wise to consider such a course of action, because apart from God's protection there is naught but a hellish future to face.
 

Jimmy Engle

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Very good post! Scripture should always interpret scripture. I think one of the reasons people view the second death as an eternal punishment that never ends is because in quite a few places the word hell is used instead of Gehenna. So people easily picture in their minds a place where people are burned/tortured forever. Also, a false teaching started a long time ago that suggested that we are all eternal...in that our souls are eternal so we will either have eternal life in heaven or eternal punishment in hell. Since our souls are not eternal and God has the power to sustain or destroy us...the idea of eternal torment in hell is out of question. The truth is that we are facing one of two realities. Either eternal life with Christ and all the saints in a place that is prepared for us (heaven) or eternal punishment.

I want to make this clear so I don't get anyone confused...eternal punishment in the bible does NOT refer to a person being punished for all eternity in hell. What it means is that we are destroyed...consumed in the fire and we cease to exist because both our bodies and souls have been consumed and we are dead for all eternity. So since this is true, the bible is also true when it says we are eternally punished...we never come back to life...we will be dead forever.
 

logabe

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Very good post! Scripture should always interpret scripture. I think one of the reasons people view the second death as an eternal punishment that never ends is because in quite a few places the word hell is used instead of Gehenna. So people easily picture in their minds a place where people are burned/tortured forever. Also, a false teaching started a long time ago that suggested that we are all eternal...in that our souls are eternal so we will either have eternal life in heaven or eternal punishment in hell. Since our souls are not eternal and God has the power to sustain or destroy us...the idea of eternal torment in hell is out of question. The truth is that we are facing one of two realities. Either eternal life with Christ and all the saints in a place that is prepared for us (heaven) or eternal punishment.

I want to make this clear so I don't get anyone confused...eternal punishment in the bible does NOT refer to a person being punished for all eternity in hell. What it means is that we are destroyed...consumed in the fire and we cease to exist because both our bodies and souls have been consumed and we are dead for all eternity. So since this is true, the bible is also true when it says we are eternally punished...we never come back to life...
we will be dead forever.


In I Corinthians 15 Paul quotes from Psalm 8. This is the great resurrection
chapter, where he proves that because Jesus Christ was raised from the dead, so
also shall we be raised. And then, in explaining our resurrection, he says in verses
22 and 23,

22 For as in Adam all die, even so, in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order...


As Christians, God is destroying the "OLD MAN" within us daily. He has delivered us
from the slavery of sin. Sin is no longer our master. The carnal mind is gradually
vanishing away. In other words...death is being destroyed inside of us.

Now look closely to what Paul is saying in verses 26 and 27,

26 The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death.
27 For he hath put all things under His feet...


Here again, Paul quotes from Psalm 8:6. You see Psalm 8:6 cannot be fulfilled
until all enemies have been put under His feet, for it prophesies of the Dominion
Mandate and its purpose (Gen. 1:28). The last enemy is death, so death itself
has to be put under His feet. Now, when death itself is conquered, that means
life is in all men. The only way you can destroy death is through life. Jesus
destroyed the power of death by His resurrection.

If the last enemy destroyed is death, it is apparent that death is not the first
enemy. Modern eschatology today generally teaches that the next event on
God's calendar is the resurrection of the dead, where death will be destroyed
on behalf of all those who can be saved. They teach that at this resurrection,
all believers will be redeemed from death, and no one else will ever be taken
out of “death” again. In other words, they teach that death will NEVER be
abolished, except for the few who believed in Christ during their life time. This
teaching contradicts Paul's statement in two ways. First, it assumes that death
will be the first enemy to be abolished; and secondly, it assumes that death
will never be abolished except for a chosen few.

But if death is destroyed in the first resurrection at the beginning of the thousand
years, how is it that there are more enemies toward the end of the thousand
years (Rev. 20:7-9)? How is it that the enemies of God are to be raised in the
general resurrection at the end of the thousand years? And when those
enemies are raised, how is it that they are cast into the “lake of fire,” which
is the second DEATH (Rev. 20:15)? The second death is still death, though
certainly it is death in a different form.

Death in any form is still an ENEMY. So there will be many enemies between
the first and second resurrections, and they will be subdued one after the other.
But the “last enemy” to be abolished is death. Who benefits when death is
destroyed at the end ? If it is true, as we have been told, that all believers are
raised in the first resurrection, death will be destroyed for them at the beginning
of the age to come. But who will benefit when death is destroyed at the end?
The answer is simple: the unbelievers will benefit, for God intends to put all
things under His feet and to become “all in all” (1 Cor. 15:28) after those
unbelievers have completed their time of judgment in the “lake of fire.”

In verses 27 and 28 Paul gives us another little detail about this:

27 For He has put all things in subjection under His feet. But when
He said, ‘all things are put in subjection,' it is evident that He is
excepted who put all things in subjection to Him.
28 And when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself
also will be subjected to the One who subjected all things to Him,
that God may be all in all.


In other words, the Father, which put all things under the Son, is
not going to be subject to the Son. The Father is the only exception to
this statement. That is the context which explains the use of the term
“all.” If you want to know the context of what “all” means, it means all
except the Father. It is as plain as that. He is the only exception that
Paul makes in this statement of putting all things under his feet. If
Paul meant to exclude 95% of humanity, he missed a beautiful
opportunity to do so. If he meant to say all things under his feet
means “all believers, but everyone else will be lost,” then why did
he not say this? The only exception is the Father himself.

The only way that God can be all in all, Paul says, is if death itself is
abolished. That is, in fact, the purpose for the reign of Christ in the
Tabernacles Age that is to come. Christ was first crowned King at
Sinai under Moses, when Jesus Christ (the Lawgiver) became the
King of Israel. But His Kingdom was rebellious and did not submit
to His law. That was the nature of the Kingdom of God during the
Passover Age.

Christ was again crowned King by the 120 disciples on the day of
Pentecost in Acts 2. But once again, that Pentecostal Kingdom proved
to be rebellious, following the pattern of the reign of Saul.

Now Christ is about to be crowned King a third time in the context of
the Age of Tabernacles. This Kingdom will endure, because this time
it will have what it lacked in the two previous ages. It will have
administrators who are overcomers—those who are in agreement
with the King and who know how to rule, not as Saul, but as David.


Logabe
 

Endzone

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I disagree James or else I just don't understand what you are saying. The Bible clearly talks about hell being an eternal punishment. And this is the really sad that is that a lot of folks think the worst thing that can happen to them when they die is that they just turn into fertilizer. But I honestly believe it is worse than that. I think hell is a very real tormenting place that never ends. It's almost incredible to imagine. Really it is a terribly frightening thing. I think that's why Jesus said, "Fear not them that can kill the body but can't touch your souls, but fear Him who hath power to cast into hell". My dad is 78, and I was talking with him about this the last time I was home. He is a good guy. In fact he is a really good guy and a nice guy. But he just believes that when you die, that's it. He thinks people who are religious use it as a crutch. He's a self-made man, and he was a hard working Italian immigrant his whole life. I told him he was taking an enormous gamble, and he said, "maybe I am".

But, I hope this board isn't like so many other board on the internet. And that is, there are a few individuals who think they know it all, and are going to be the pastors/fathers or whatever they consider themselves to be and "enlighten" us all. Man that is so easy to do on the internet, and those guys that do that are full of pride and actually are insecure little boys on the inside and this is their way of compensating for it. Let me tell you something. Nobody on this board has the keys to every door of understand that opens and shuts. And that includes moderators and anybody who has made thousands of post on this board. We all have had different experiences, and we all are teachers in that thing that we have had particular experience in. My experience on a board I was just on is that when I respectuflly disagreed with one of the moderators about a particular thing, he locked me out of the board. I sure hope this board isn't like that. I hope there are more humble people on here. NO ONE ON THIS BOARD IS AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING AND NO ONE KNOWS IT ALL! OK? Does that really bother anybodies pride on this board?


Very good post! Scripture should always interpret scripture. I think one of the reasons people view the second death as an eternal punishment that never ends is because in quite a few places the word hell is used instead of Gehenna. So people easily picture in their minds a place where people are burned/tortured forever. Also, a false teaching started a long time ago that suggested that we are all eternal...in that our souls are eternal so we will either have eternal life in heaven or eternal punishment in hell. Since our souls are not eternal and God has the power to sustain or destroy us...the idea of eternal torment in hell is out of question. The truth is that we are facing one of two realities. Either eternal life with Christ and all the saints in a place that is prepared for us (heaven) or eternal punishment.

I want to make this clear so I don't get anyone confused...eternal punishment in the bible does NOT refer to a person being punished for all eternity in hell. What it means is that we are destroyed...consumed in the fire and we cease to exist because both our bodies and souls have been consumed and we are dead for all eternity. So since this is true, the bible is also true when it says we are eternally punished...we never come back to life...we will be dead forever.
 

jerryjohnson

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I disagree James or else I just don't understand what you are saying. The Bible clearly talks about hell being an eternal punishment. And this is the really sad that is that a lot of folks think the worst thing that can happen to them when they die is that they just turn into fertilizer. But I honestly believe it is worse than that. I think hell is a very real tormenting place that never ends. It's almost incredible to imagine. Really it is a terribly frightening thing. I think that's why Jesus said, "Fear not them that can kill the body but can't touch your souls, but fear Him who hath power to cast into hell". My dad is 78, and I was talking with him about this the last time I was home. He is a good guy. In fact he is a really good guy and a nice guy. But he just believes that when you die, that's it. He thinks people who are religious use it as a crutch. He's a self-made man, and he was a hard working Italian immigrant his whole life. I told him he was taking an enormous gamble, and he said, "maybe I am".

But, I hope this board isn't like so many other board on the internet. And that is, there are a few individuals who think they know it all, and are going to be the pastors/fathers or whatever they consider themselves to be and "enlighten" us all. Man that is so easy to do on the internet, and those guys that do that are full of pride and actually are insecure little boys on the inside and this is their way of compensating for it. Let me tell you something. Nobody on this board has the keys to every door of understand that opens and shuts. And that includes moderators and anybody who has made thousands of post on this board. We all have had different experiences, and we all are teachers in that thing that we have had particular experience in. My experience on a board I was just on is that when I respectuflly disagreed with one of the moderators about a particular thing, he locked me out of the board. I sure hope this board isn't like that. I hope there are more humble people on here. NO ONE ON THIS BOARD IS AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING AND NO ONE KNOWS IT ALL! OK? Does that really bother anybodies pride on this board?

Sounds like you think you know a lot! Unfortunately you don't know enough.
 

Brother Mike

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Well Endzone.......... It is very easy. You see, you just have to take some scriptures like Christiana and all make them mean the seconded death, and nothing on earth. For example.

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more

Notice being removed from earth? nothing about no Hell..

Consume them in wrath, consume them, that they may not be.
This scripture must mean second death, and not consumed off the earth........

Enter ye in at the straight gate: for wide is the fate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat
Yep, Narrow is the Road in that fire after you die, get off the road and your destroyed. This has nothing to do with earth.

For a little while, and the wicked shall not be: yea, thou shalt diligently consider his place, and it shall not be See how this mentions the second death? Wait it does not, but has to mean that anyway.

Let the sinners be consumed out of the earth, and let the wicked be no more
The sinners are consumed out of the earth and the wicked be no more. Can't be talking about Earth, must be second death.

You can see the number of scriptures given, I just gave a few Christiana used that she expects us to assume these all must mean the second death, though none of them mention it. Not to be concerned, nobody is that silly to buy into this, or are they?

That Pesky Word Everlasting: What are we gonna do??

Now we have to do something with the word everlasting........... We have to change that. So we say something Like Christiana made up.

Sodom and Gomorrah, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." Jude 7.

Are Sodom and Gomorrah still burning today? Listen to the words of the apostle Peter:

2Pe 2:6 And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;

I am not a English major, but I do better than sixth grade reading level. (Sometimes)

Christiana asked if the cities are burning today??? Then it must have been those cities made of brick and stone that committed the fornication, those sinful cities!!! Shame on them. Peter said those cities brunt down to Ashes.
Did I miss something?????????????????

NO, but Christiana did. She confused real brick and stone cities as the ones that committed the sin, as that was her point when she asked if they are burning today. I don't want to be the one to break it to her though.

IT WAS THE PEOPLE IN THOSE CITIES !!!!

and it did say suffering vengeance of ETERNAL FIRE. Look the Greek up!!! Eternal means everlasting, never ending. Of course the Greek won't suit us here, as it won't prove our point...........

The fire is said to be everlasting because it is the ultimate exp?ression of God's hatred of sin.

God is as a consuming fire, but how do we make that a connection to Jude which talks of Eternal vengenance by fire?
This takes place after the enemy dies and is eternal.

Christiana states that none are burning today.

None are burning today.

Luk 16:24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.

Well, somebody better tell that Rich man that Christiana said nobody is burning today...................I am sure he might disagree though. Of course Jesus did say Hell, but what the Heck Jesus know?

Mar 9:45 And if thy foot offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter halt into life, than having two feet to be cast into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched:
Mar 9:46 Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.

Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:

Mat 13:42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth.

Wailing and gnashing of teeth.............. Ummm how can a destroyed spirit make noise and wail??? Where did they get those teeth?
Not one place are we Told a spirit can be destroyed. We are spirits.

Endzone: not everyone here is like this. Stay, and enjoy this forum. It's a good forum. You will see as I pointed out, people make stuff up to prove something. Not everyone does that. Be encouraged! I am going to stick with what Jesus said, there is a Hell, and no amount of using Greek, no amount of taking scriptures out of context is going to make it go away. It is eternal, and it is torment and anguish.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

fivesense

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In the spiritual realm as well as the physical life, one such law dictates that we will bear the consequences of our actions.

God is not willing that any should suffer the second death - eternity beyond His presence.

rjp, I could use your help here, I cannot find anything in the Word about "spiritual laws". Please supply me some references to God having spoken that there are "spiritual laws". If He has not said there are some, then where did you get them from? Did you make them up yourself?

I also could not find, "the second death=eternity beyond His presence". Please show me the passage that describes the second death that way. If He has not said it, then how can I consider your view as credible?
fivesense
 

jerryjohnson

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Well, somebody better tell that Rich man that Christiana said nobody is burning today...................I am sure he might disagree though. Of course Jesus did say Hell, but what the Heck Jesus know?

....


Mike, has Judgment day happened yet?
 

Brother Mike

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No JerryJohnson, It has yet to happen.

Are we under the assumption that the Rich man could not have been in Hell if there is no judgement?

Or when Jesus went down to preach, he also covered not only the side in Which Abraham was on but also covered the side that Jude described those in Sodom went to for eternal punishment. Thus, hualing everyone out.

No matter the case. Jesus said the Rich man was in torment and it is just a assumption that final judgement must be passed before people go to a place that is unpleasent. There is also no scripture that indicates that the man was ever released from that place.

The best you can do is say that Jesus was talking about some future point, in which there is no evidence of that or Jesus just made some wild stuff up to make a point. The fact is brother JerryJohnson. Christiana is way out there, and used scripture after scripture that has no connection to anything she was trying to prove in order to A) mislead or B-) She is just confused, and I don't think she would on purpose mislead anyone.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

Christina

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Well Endzone.......... It is very easy. You see, you just have to take some scriptures like Christiana and all make them mean the seconded death, and nothing on earth. For example.


Now we have to do something with the word everlasting........... We have to change that. So we say something Like Christiana made up.



I am not a English major, but I do better than sixth grade reading level. (Sometimes)

Christiana asked if the cities are burning today??? Then it must have been those cities made of brick and stone that committed the fornication, those sinful cities!!! Shame on them. Peter said those cities brunt down to Ashes.
Did I miss something?????????????????

NO, but Christiana did. She confused real brick and stone cities as the ones that committed the sin, as that was her point when she asked if they are burning today. I don't want to be the one to break it to her though.

Christiana states that none are burning today.


Well, somebody better tell that Rich man that Christiana said nobody is burning today...................I am sure he might disagree though. Of course Jesus did say Hell, but what the Heck Jesus know?

OK BRO MIKE ..I HAVE HAD ENOUGH
WHEN DID YOU GET APPOINTED LEADER OF THIS SITE ?

YOU INJECT YOURSELF INTO EVERY BIBLE STUDY WITH INSULTS,PERSONAL ATTACKS AND STUPID CHILDISH ANTICS.
YOU CAN NOT STAND FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION .
ALL TO KEEP ANYONE FROM READING SCRIPTURE AND DECIDING FOR THEMSELVES ?

SEEMS NO ONE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION UNLESS YOU APPROVE
SEEMS NO ONE CAN POST A STUDY UNLESS YOU APPROVE . ..
WHY DO YOU TRY TO KEEP THE WORD TO A MINUMIM ?

...I DO NOT PUSH ANY RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE OF A CHURCH AS YOU DO
THIS SITE DOESNT HAVE PENECOASTAL IN THE TITLE.
THEREFORE WE DO NOT ALL HAVE TO ADHERE TO YOUR RELIGION OR ENDURE YOUR ANTICS

YOU BEHAVE LIKE A CHILD RUNNING THE THE HOUSE WITH NO ADULT SUPERVISION
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY SAY IT BUT WHY DO YOU HAVE TO STARTAND MAKE EVERY POST AGAINST ME OR SOMEONE THAT DOESNT SHARE YOUR RELIGION WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF ANYONE HAVING A DIFFERENT VIEW?

WHY IS IT YOU CANT STAND ANYONE QUOTING FROM GOD WORD?? .

YOU ONLY KNOW A RELIGION NOT THE ENTIRE WORD OF GOD
YET YOU PRETEND TO BE MORE THAN YOU ARE
YOU SHOULD STICK TO WHAT YOU DO WELL AND STOP TRYING TO PLAY BIBLE SCHOLAR.

IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG BY POSTING A FEW STUDIES ON THIS SITE FOR PEOPLE TO READ AND THINK ABOUT THEN THE MANAGEMENT SHOULD HAVE STEPPED IN
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS BROTHER MIKE MUST APPROVE OF THEM
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS THEY CAN NOT BE TO COMPLICATED FOR BROTHER MIKE
BECAUSE I DIDNT READ THOUSE RULES.
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS YOU CAN CAN PERSONALLY ATTACK EVERYONE WHO DOEST ADHIRE TO YOUR RELIGION ... OR YOUR RAPTURE DOCTRINE

AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS SITE IS ADVERTISED AS A BIBLE STUDY SITE..A PLACE FOR ALL LEVELS OF STUDENT TO COME.....NOT A BRO MIKE'S RELIGION STUDY SITE WHERE ONLY BRO.MIKES BRAND OF MILK IS ALLOWED

WHY WOULD SOMEONE ONLY WANT CHRISTAINS TO STAY IN THE MILK AND NOT MADE TO THINK AND LEARN AND STUDY?
MAKES ONE WONDER ABOUT YOUR REAL MOTIVES
 

fivesense

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OK BRO MIKE ..I HAVE HAD ENOUGH
WHEN DID YOU GET APPOINTED LEADER OF THIS SITE ?

YOU INJECT YOURSELF INTO EVERY BIBLE STUDY WITH INSULTS,PERSONAL ATTACKS AND STUPID CHILDISH ANTICS.
YOU CAN NOT STAND FOR ANYONE TO HAVE A SERIOUS CONVERSATION .
ALL TO KEEP ANYONE FROM READING SCRIPTURE AND DECIDING FOR THEMSELVES ?

SEEMS NO ONE CAN HAVE A CONVERSATION UNLESS YOU APPROVE
SEEMS NO ONE CAN POST A STUDY UNLESS YOU APPROVE . ..
WHY DO YOU TRY TO KEEP THE WORD TO A MINUMIM ?

...I DO NOT PUSH ANY RELIGIOUS DOCTRINE OF A CHURCH AS YOU DO
THIS SITE DOESNT HAVE PENECOASTAL IN THE TITLE.
THEREFORE WE DO NOT ALL HAVE TO ADHERE TO YOUR RELIGION OR ENDURE YOUR ANTICS

YOU BEHAVE LIKE A CHILD RUNNING THE THE HOUSE WITH NO ADULT SUPERVISION
IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO SAY SAY IT BUT WHY DO YOU HAVE TO STARTAND MAKE EVERY POST AGAINST ME OR SOMEONE THAT DOESNT SHARE YOUR RELIGION WHY ARE YOU SO AFRAID OF ANYONE HAVING A DIFFERENT VIEW?

WHY IS IT YOU CANT STAND ANYONE QUOTING FROM GOD WORD?? .

YOU ONLY KNOW A RELIGION NOT THE ENTIRE WORD OF GOD
YET YOU PRETEND TO BE MORE THAN YOU ARE
YOU SHOULD STICK TO WHAT YOU DO AND STOP TRYING TO PLAY BIBLE SCHOLAR.

IF I DID SOMETHING WRONG BY POSTING A FEW STUDIES ON THIS SITE FOR PEOPLE TO READ AND THINK ABOUT THEN THE MANAGEMENT SHOULD HAVE STEPPED IN
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS BROTHER MIKE MUST APPROVE OF THEM
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS THEY CAN NOT BE TO COMPLICATED FOR BROTHER MIKE
BECAUSE I DIDNT READ THOUSE RULES.
WHERE IS THE RULE THAT SAYS YOU CAN CAN PERSONALLY ATTACK EVERYONE WHO DOEST ADHIRE TO YOUR RELIGION ... OR YOUR RAPTURE DOCTRINE

AS FAR AS I KNOW THIS SITE IS ADVERTISED AS A BIBLE STUDY SITE..A PLACE FOR ALL LEVELS OF STUDENT TO COME.....NOT A BRO MIKE'S RELIGION STUDY SITE WHERE ONLY BRO.MIKES BRAND OF MILK IS ALLOWED

WHY WOULD SOMEONE ONLY WANT CHRISTAINS TO STAY IN THE MILK AND NOT MADE TO THINK AND LEARN AND STUDY?
MAKES ONE WONDER ABOUT YOUR REAL MOTIVES

Interesting.... A bear and her cubs for sure. Warranted and fitting, nonetheless. Blessed are the peacemakers, who carry salt around in their pockets.
fivesense
 

Brother Mike

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WoW!!!! ........................... That was a nice Post Christina. heart felt............ but don't try to sneak away so easy.

EDIT: Whole long post............................................

Well, I had some more scriptures and was going to call you out on the carpet Christiana with this crazy Doctrine. I even was ready for those burning trash piles and the Greek for hell............ However, after some consideration, and Reading Fivesense post again, I have decided to just drop it. Your theory about Hell don't hold water anyway, and you went into a rant instead of Answer what I did post. JerryJohnson is the only one that was polite enough to consider what I written.

So with all that said................. and seeing that you seem a little upset, I back out of this thread.

Jesus Is Lord.
 

Christina

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WoW!!!! ........................... That was a nice Post Christina. heart felt............ but don't try to sneak away so easy.

EDIT: Whole long post............................................

Well, I had some more scriptures and was going to call you out on the carpet Christiana with this crazy Doctrine. I even was ready for those burning trash piles and the Greek for hell............ However, after some consideration, and Reading Fivesense post again, I have decided to just drop it. Your theory about Hell don't hold water anyway, and you went into a rant instead of Answer what I did post. JerryJohnson is the only one that was polite enough to consider what I written.

So with all that said................. and seeing that you seem a little upset, I back out of this thread.

Jesus Is Lord.

Not to worry Bro Mike I read rude arrogant post before you edited it
just didnt see the point in repling to more of the same
insults and smart remarks ...and Biblical ignorance
but then you do as you always do ....push to the edge then back off and claim your being godly :lol:
Just seems Hammerstone has not caught on to your games yet.
Just because you end your posts with Jesus is Lord ...
God knows the truth however you do not fool some of us.


And oh by the way,
My views and understanding are supported by Hammerstone and many many more good students that have come through here over the years, I been teaching the same thing for many years.
Just Because most good scholars have left because of antics like yours doesnt mean they agree with you they just dont want to be subsected to your antics and making light and jokes of God Word.

Its appears this site is fast on the path of becoming Pencoastal revival hour ....run by Brother Mike ... I for one am not interested ....
 

Endzone

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Christina, IMHO your very first post in this thread was WAY too long and confusing. I gave up on it about half way through. God has given the spirit of a sound mind and Satan and his demons are the author of confusion. I don't know you very well. That's the problem with these internet chat boards--you really just don't know people. But it just seems to me if you shortened the post and made it more coherent, that people could understand what the in the world you were talking about. And no, Brother Mike doesn't know it all whether he thinks he does or not. Again, I don't know him that well. It's hard to say.
 

Christina

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Christina, IMHO your very first post in this thread was WAY too long and confusing. I gave up on it about half way through. God has given the spirit of a sound mind and Satan and his demons are the author of confusion. I don't know you very well. That's the problem with these internet chat boards--you really just don't know people. But it just seems to me if you shortened the post and made it more coherent, that people could understand what the in the world you were talking about. And no, Brother Mike doesn't know it all whether he thinks he does or not. Again, I don't know him that well. It's hard to say.

Thanks for the constructive critism and feed back Endzone , and perhaps I could have edited it down for this site ... :)
 

jerryjohnson

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WoW!!!! ........................... That was a nice Post Christina. heart felt............ but don't try to sneak away so easy.

EDIT: Whole long post............................................

Well, I had some more scriptures and was going to call you out on the carpet Christiana with this crazy Doctrine. I even was ready for those burning trash piles and the Greek for hell............ However, after some consideration, and Reading Fivesense post again, I have decided to just drop it. Your theory about Hell don't hold water anyway, and you went into a rant instead of Answer what I did post. JerryJohnson is the only one that was polite enough to consider what I written.

So with all that said................. and seeing that you seem a little upset, I back out of this thread.

Jesus Is Lord.

BM, I seldom read your posts. You are one of six members on my ignore list so I can choose to read you or not.
 

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NO ONE ON THIS BOARD IS AN EXPERT IN EVERYTHING AND NO ONE KNOWS IT ALL! OK? Does that really bother anybodies pride on this board?

It seems to bother you quite a bit, Mr. Endzone.

When a person begins or ends a rant with the phrase 'nobody is an expert', they are really saying that THEY are the ones who know it all.
The truth then becomes obvious to everyone except the one who posted the statement in the first place.
Such truth being that said poster is unable or unwilling to accept sound teaching, doctrine, opinion or philosophy from anybody except him/herself.

Life is an education, and after many years I've discovered that the light of truth is often discovered in the most unexpected places.
Sometimes it comes from the mouths of children, friends or even enemies.
Sometimes nuggets of truth comes from true believers and sometimes from people who don't believe at all.

You do yourself a disservice when you consider everyone else's opinion to be absurd.
There are some real gems to be found here and you should not close your eyes to the possibility.

After all, Mr. Endzone. YOU don't know everything either.