Religion

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RichardBurger

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Religion:

Religion = what mankind practices in order to please the god they think exists. It is a practice of things (works and rituals) they think will please their God and make them acceptable.

What I find so amazing in the Christian religion is that men and women will search out scriptures in one part of the Bible to try and defeat scriptures in another part of the Bible. You see it on all of the forums. Instead of trying to discuss the Scriptures in the original post they interject other Scriptures found in other places that they say make the other Scripture meaningless. --- Religion is what separates men and women today. They don't seem to understand that Jesus (God) has made an end run around religion and made it null and void.

Not many will try to study, in depth, what Paul said in 1 Cor 1:23-31

1 Cor 1:23-31
23 but we preach Christ crucified, to the Jews a stumbling block and to the Greeks foolishness,

*Because it is what God has done for mankind and not what men and women can do in a religion for themselves.

24 but to those who are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God.
25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men, and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

*By doing for mankind what they could not do for themselves God, in His wisdom, has setup a plan of salvation that is not dependant on what men and women do. Since, in religion, men and women feel that THEY must do something, they find God's plan foolish. To religion a plan of salvation in which men and women cannot work for salvation is foolish. In religion every one feels that they must work for what they get. Example, when a person receives a gift they feel that they must give one in return. They do not understand what a free gift is or how to accept it. However, a free gift requires nothing in return except a feeling of gratitude and a thank you.

26 For you see your calling, brethren, that not many wise according to the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called.
27 But God has chosen the foolish things of the world to put to shame the wise, and God has chosen the weak things of the world to put to shame the things which are mighty;
28 and the base things of the world and the things which are despised God has chosen, and the things which are not, to bring to nothing the things that are,

*I believe the above is saying the same things I am saying; the things which are not, the absents of religion, and the things that are, religions, have been brought to nothing.

29 that no flesh should glory in His presence.

*Men and women glory (take pride) in their religious works they do. They think they will please God and it is hard for them to deny themselves this control of their salvation and give ALL the control to God.

30 But of Him you are in Christ Jesus, who became for us wisdom from God-- and righteousness and sanctification and redemption--
31 that, as it is written, "He who glories, let him glory in the Lord."
(NKJ)

The work of Jesus Christ on the cross has become all that is necessary for a person's salvation. It is righteousness, sanctification, and redemption for all those that will place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what He (God) did on the cross. As you can see God had a plan that removed the work of salvation from mankind and accomplished the work Himself. Yet, men and women WILL NOT accept it, they still feel that THEY must do something too. They cannot accept a plan of salvation that does not give them some control over it.

To many, the history of mankind's religions did not change much with the death and resurrection of Jesus (God). Religions continued to be a system of things (works) that men and women practice for their god.

People in religion today cannot accept the idea that with the death of Jesus, God instituted a hidden plan of salvation that does not depend on mankind's performance and gave it to Paul.

Eph 2:4-10
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us,
5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved),
6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus,
7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.
8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God,
9 not of works, lest anyone should boast.
10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.
(NKJ)

Notice that in the above it is talking about what God has done for us, not what we do. In verse 10 it says we are His workmanship. He did all the work to make us His.

Eph 3:1-3
1 For this reason I, Paul, the prisoner of Christ Jesus for you Gentiles--
2 if indeed you have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which was given to me for you,
3 how that by revelation He made known to me the mystery (as I have briefly written already,
(NKJ)

In this dispensation of the grace of God all mankind is required to do is to accept what God has done for their salvation and to deny their control over it. They are required to place ALL their faith, trust, confidence, and hope in what Jesus (God) did on the cross. When they do this they show that they believe what God has done for them.

John 3:18
18 "He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
(NKJ)

Food for thought
 
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revdw76

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Amen brother, I marvel at all the different views I see here and at other sites I visit. Like you said totally taking scripture out of context to contradict other parts of it. I try to explain it sometimes and I get frustrated at debating some of the so called "scholars" I run across. Many who have studied in college and seminary and preached for years compared to my 6 years of self study, and yet they seem to totally go 180 off base on what the scripture says, but try to tell them and they get so angry. Its got to where I just sit back and pray that these "scholars" will get the true meaning before it's too late. :blink: :unsure:
 

Paul

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Amen brother, I marvel at all the different views I see here and at other sites I visit. Like you said totally taking scripture out of context to contradict other parts of it. I try to explain it sometimes and I get frustrated at debating some of the so called "scholars" I run across. Many who have studied in college and seminary and preached for years compared to my 6 years of self study, and yet they seem to totally go 180 off base on what the scripture says, but try to tell them and they get so angry. Its got to where I just sit back and pray that these "scholars" will get the true meaning before it's too late. :blink: :unsure:


Yes, I do to.
 

Hamster

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Talk about Religion?

James 1:26-27

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
 

RichardBurger

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Talk about Religion?

James 1:26-27

If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.

And, of course, you do all the above without fail all the time because you are very religious. When you go to the homeless shelters you bring home some of the orphans and widows so you can be what you claim to be here.
 

RichardBurger

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The Religious Mind:

When the scripture said to "not forsake the assembling ourselves together," why do most assume it is in the formal religious services in a church building?

Heb 10:25
25 not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching. (NKJ)

Why can't it be referring to Sunday school classes, Bible study classes, Bible study in the homes, or even home churches? It is a fact that the NT scriptures do not tell us what we are to do when we gather together except as written in the scripture above (exhorting one another) and to worship God. But I doubt very seriously that we are to worship God by the things we do physically (external). I think we are to worship God in our hearts (inside).

Why do some get the idea that God is somewhere in the ceiling of the Church building or some of the artifacts when, in fact, He is in the hearts of those that love Him?

In most religions it is a generally accepted practice that a person must stand up at times in order to worship God, such as when singing, having a prayer, giving a benediction, or reciting a religious creed? ---- What difference does it make to God?

I say this because, as a young man, while in Church, I heard someone say a man in the Church was being disrespectful because he did not stand up during the things mentioned above and was a bad example to the children. The man did not have any seeable handicap. -- I found out, later, that the man suffered from bad knees and was in constant pain from them. Why, because of the religious idea of another, was this man being denigrated and judged as being disrespectful?

I know of a boy, about 8 years old, who was placed in a Christian School. The school had some made up rules that they expected to be followed. One such rule was that a boy's hair could not be over the boy's ears. This boy brought a note home from his teacher that told his parents to have his hair cut. Unfortunately it was after that same teacher had made an example of him by making him sit in a chair at the front of the class, looking out at the other students. Since this boy could not drive a car and certainly did not have an income of money to pay for a haircut, why was he treated in that way? What influence did it have on a child this young? It had this affect; he would always have a problem with authority figures for the rest of his life. The parents of this young boy removed, both the boy and his sister, from that school and placed them in public schools.

When this same boy was about 15 he was asked to take up the collection during the Church service. He was wearing blue jeans and a tee shirt. As he was standing in the aisle he heard, and so did others, a woman say, "at least he could wear decent cloths while taking up the offering." After this the boy never came into the Church service again. We would see him sitting in his parent's car waiting for them. I couldn't blame him.

Later, at a Wednesday night Bible Study Class, this same boy was "told" by the preacher to take out the trash. He told the preacher, "even my dad says please." Needless to say he did not take out the trash.

Several years ago my wife, and I, went on a Methodist retreat in South Georgia for a weekend in August. In our group was a man named John. In my opinion there is not a better child of God than John. John wore a hat to keep his baldhead from getting sunburned.

On the first morning John took his family (wife, son (8), and daughter (6)) to the building that was used to feed the people. This building had an all glass ceiling and was open on three sides so John wore his hat. -- John and his wife went through the cafeteria food line in front of us selecting the food for all four of them, which was difficult to do with just four hands. John and his wife were busy finding a place to sit and making sure the children had what they needed when my wife and I sat down.

John and his wife were still on their feet doing these things when suddenly my wife and I noticed that someone, who was obviously in charge since he had a microphone, was talking about a man that was being disrespectful to God because he was wearing a hat in the "house of God." Not only did he keep it up, he came over to John and demanded (over the microphone) that he remove his hat and apologize. John was so busy trying to take care of his family that he did not realize that he was being singled out as being disrespectful until the man was in his face.

I have seen John remove his hat WHEN he sat down to eat but after what the religious man had done he refused to do so. John told his family, and my wife and I, he was not going to be able to eat with them and us and would go out and find another place to eat. John was followed out by his wife and children and he and his family never went to that place again. It was then that I realized that men with religious minds are not really children of God. This man with the microphone seemed to think the building was more important than the people in it.

As I see it, this man, with the microphone, was so full of his religiosity that he did not care what he was doing to John and his family in front of all his friends that had come with him. He was judging John by what was in his own religious mind and it is clear to me that he was tearing down my friend in order to elevate him-self, which is a form of boasting. There is not one place in the NT scriptures that tell us to remove hats in a place set aside for eating. Who made this man, who can only see the outside, John's Judge? Who gave him, or any others, the right to impose made up rules on the children of God? The scriptures tell us to " exhort one another" not tear down one another. But it seems that men want to make up rules that they want others to submit to. The actions of the man with the microphone were determined by his religious mind.

Rom 14:4-8
4 Who are you to judge another's servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5 One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind.
6 He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks.
7 For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself.
8 For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord's.
(NKJ)

James 4:11-12
11 Do not speak evil of one another, brethren. He who speaks evil of a brother and judges his brother, speaks evil of the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.
12 There is one Lawgiver, who is able to save and to destroy. Who are you to judge another?
(NKJ)

As for religion let me quote Paul,

Phil 3:5-10
5 circumcised the eighth day, of the stock of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of the Hebrews; concerning the law, a Pharisee;
6 concerning zeal, persecuting the church; concerning the righteousness which is in the law, blameless.
7 But what things were gain to me, these I have counted loss for Christ.
8 Yet indeed I also count all things loss for the excellence of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord, for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and count them as rubbish, that I may gain Christ
9 and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
10 that I may know Him and the power of His resurrection, and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death,
(NKJ)

Paul said he was raised up in the Jewish religion yet he counted it all as rubbish that he might gain Christ. Not a religion ""about"" Christ, but Christ Himself, in his heart. I completely understand what Paul meant. True Christianity is not in religion; it is in the hearts of the Children of God. Jesus did not die on the cross so that man could have a relationship with religion. He came so that sinful people could be justified by what He did on the cross and because of it have a relationship with Him in their hearts.

God save us from those with religious minds!

1999, by H. Richard Burger
 

Foreigner

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Richy, Hamster was right to reference James 1:26-27

"If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless.
Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world."


-- Cutting and pasting a huge meandering post written by you in 1999 in response to his scripture posting doesn 't alter that.





"And, of course, you do all the above without fail all the time because you are very religious. When you go to the homeless shelters you bring home some of the orphans and widows so you can be what you claim to be here. " -- Richy

-- And your comments like this do not further the discussion.
 

RichardBurger

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True faith is never dead! By Richard Burger, November 19, 2007

True and sincere faith, trust, confidence, and hope IN God's work on the cross is NEVER dead. We are saved and kept by God's power, not our own. We have overcome the world by our faith in what God has done. How can that be considered dead faith? But, because of James' letter to the Jews (not the grace Church), men throw the words "dead faith" around a lot. Religious men refuse to see that James's was not writing to the grace church. Even though James said who he was writing to in James 1:1 they refuse to believe it. Those who actively trust in God's work on the cross are placing their eternal life on the work of God. They are completely trusting in God's promise, in Christ, to save and keep them. Since their faith is in God's work on the cross their faith is never dead.

I Jn 5:4-5 (NKJ)
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world-- our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

Keeping your faith in Jesus and His work on the cross is not easy when all of the religious people around you, using James' writing, are saying you must do good works by your own initiative/choice or your faith is dead. That you must take control by getting involved in good works to prove you have faith. Prove it to whom? Do men think that God does not know those that have placed their faith in His work on the cross; that God does not know who He has sealed with the Holy Spirit?

It is not OUR works that we are to present to the world. It is God's work on the cross (the gospel of Jesus Christ). When I heard the message of the gospel of the grace of God in Christ I was not looking at the people, or the preacher, to see if they were good. It was totally between God (the Holy Spirit) and I. The Holy Spirit made me look into my own heart and made me realize that I could never be good (perfect) in the sight of God without His help. It is then that I realized just how important the work of Jesus on the cross really is; how much God loves us. I certainly did not consider the sin, or lack of sin, in other men to be a factor. As a matter of fact I saw that they sinned just like I did/do. What mattered was that I knew, in my heart, that I could never be sinless and that I needed God's love and grace in order to be acceptable to Him. He did the rest and I am set free "in Christ."

1 Cor 6:11-12 (NKJ)
11 And such were some of you. But you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and by the Spirit of our God.
12 All things are lawful for me, but all things are not helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any.

To be brought under the power of my/your sins is to think that I/you have sins that have not been paid for by what Jesus (God) did on the cross. However, some want you to think your faith is precariously based on works and is dead without them, and in doing so, make you doubt your faith.

But religious people can never be set free because they think their salvation is based on what they do (thanks to applying James’ writings to the grace church); that their faith is dead unless they do works. Then it becomes a question of how much good works can they do; how much is enough? --- Religion is all about what men/women do for God. --- But for the Child of God it is all about what God has done for them on the cross. They have placed there faith, trust, confidence and hope in Jesus' work on the cross and according to the Scriptures those who put their trust in the Lord will never be put to shame.
 

Foreigner

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"True and sincere faith, trust, confidence, and hope IN God's work on the cross is NEVER dead. " - Richard Burger, November 19, 2007




"You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless**? Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he .did" - James 2:20-22

** KJV translates it as "faith without works is dead."



-- So what you're saying is that James is wrong......interesting.
 

RichardBurger

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Was James confused? Or was he still preaching the Gospel of the Kingdom, which included the Law?

James 2:20-21
20 But do you want to know, O foolish man, that faith without works is dead?
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered Isaac his son on the altar?
(NKJ)

No, he was not!!!!!!!  ---- He was accounted righteous before God several years earlier, BEFORE the birth of Isaac, and before he had done anything to "prove" his faith in God. 

Gen 15:4-6
4 And behold, the word of the LORD came to him, saying, "This one shall not be your heir, but one who will come from your own body shall be your heir."
5 Then He brought him outside and said, "Look now toward heaven, and count the stars if you are able to number them." And He said to him, "So shall your descendants be."
6 And he believed in the LORD, and He accounted it to him for righteousness.
(NKJ)

Not only that, but God accounted him righteous solely for his faith in His Promises, and not by anything that He did.  Paul accurately reports this.  It seems that James, who was under the law did not consider this fact in the his writing.  It was not until Genesis 22, many years after Isaac was born, when Abraham was well over 100 years old, that he agreed to offer Isaac.
 
James writes:
22  You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.
23  And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness," and he was called God's friend.
24 You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.

Neither of those last two statements jives with the Genesis 15:4-6 account. Nowhere does the OT Scripture say that Abraham "was called God's friend" BECAUSE he was willing to offer up his son Isaac. In Isaiah 41:8 it states that God called Abraham His friend but nowhere in the context of the chapter does He say it was because Abraham offered up his son Isaac.

What James wrote, as shown above, is a direct contradiction of the Gospel that Paul taught and the account given in Gen 15:4-6. Abraham was righteous before God solely because he believed God’s promises.

In my opinion the book of James is devoid of the gospel of grace as taught by Paul. Here are some facts that support my opinion. I find them interesting.

1. The word “Law” is found in 18 places
2. The word “grace” is found in 2 places
3. The word “Christ” is found in 2 places
4. The word “Justified” is found in 2 place with the words “by works” after them
5. The words “by faith” is found 1 time (justified by works and not by faith only)

6. The word “cross” is not found
7. The word “reconciled” is not found
8. The word “sanctified” is not found
9. The word “saved” is not found
10. The words “in Christ” are not found

Written by: Richard Burger, 2003. Revised 2009
 
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