Who founded your church?

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Brakelite

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only puritanical fundamentalists
Uh huh. Those that believe scripture. And are honest about what they observe in the world. You said yourself, that the church was, and is, fully justified in handing heretics over to the state to be put to death for their crimes against the church. Crimes of rejection of church authority in other words. Observing and hearing these words from a Catholic is not puritanical fundamentalism. It's Protestantism and historical literacy. Observing that such a worldview from a Catholic meets all the criteria of end time prophecy is Protestantism and Biblical literacy.
 

theefaith

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Uh huh. Those that believe scripture. And are honest about what they observe in the world. You said yourself, that the church was, and is, fully justified in handing heretics over to the state to be put to death for their crimes against the church. Crimes of rejection of church authority in other words. Observing and hearing these words from a Catholic is not puritanical fundamentalism. It's Protestantism and historical literacy. Observing that such a worldview from a Catholic meets all the criteria of end time prophecy is Protestantism and Biblical literacy.

Protestantism is not biblical
The reference in scripture to reformation is Christ establishing the new covenant Catholic Church
Christians are commanded to be faithful obedient and subject to proper authority
Not rebellious protesters
 
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Renniks

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That's the problem with anti-Catholics. You guys actually believe that verses like 1 John 5:16-17 and Matt. 5:19 were written in a vacuum and are not related to ANY other verses.

The Holy Spirit used MANY writers to convey the Gospel message and we glean a clearer understanding when we see the cross-referencing of multiple verses. The Scriptures are clear that NOT all sins are equal - and they don't have the same consequences, as I have shown you.
Matt. 12:32 is another example of where sin is differentiated.
Matt. 12:32
And whoever says a word against the Son of man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.

Here, Jesus implies that there ARE some sins that can be forgiven in the next life and some that cannot.
Again - the Church simply applied the terms "Mortal" and "Venial" to a Biblical truth, just as she did with the "Trinity".
Yes there's one sin that can't be forgiven, permanent rejection of the Spirit. I don't think any verse was written in a vacuum. I see Catholics taking verses out of context constantly.

As for 1 John 5 the message couldn't be clearer:
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Nothing about sin defined in the catogries Catholics define it, but the categories are believers and non believers.
 

theefaith

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Yes there's one sin that can't be forgiven, permanent rejection of the Spirit. I don't think any verse was written in a vacuum. I see Catholics taking verses out of context constantly.

As for 1 John 5 the message couldn't be clearer:
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Nothing about sin defined in the catogries Catholics define it, but the categories are believers and non believers.

you cannot have the Son by faith alone!
You must have the church and the promises, (sacraments)
 

Renniks

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you cannot have the Son by faith alone!
You must have the church and the promises, (sacraments)

Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The church is the body of believers, not a denomination:

The New Testament church began at Pentecost in Acts 2. This is often referred to as the Church Age. The definition for a church is a group that meets regularly (Hebrews 10:24-25) under organized leadership (Hebrews 13:17-18) and practices the purposes that are seen in the early church in Acts 2:42-47.



1 Corinthians 12:12-14 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

The baptism of the Spirit makes all believers his church.
 

David H.

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scripture says we must be taught, instructed, catechized by the apostles

We must be taught by Peter, the apostles, and their successors! Lk 10:16 Matt 28:19 Jn 21:17

In the beginning of the church, this was the case as Only the 120 had the Holy Ghost fall upon them. they are the foundation, but this did not limit who could preach to select few. To the contrary those who the Holy Ghost came upon became leaders of house churches themselves and became Ministers of the Word. Being a minister is not a class of people but based on the maturity of the believer, their ability to digest the meat of the Word. That is why Elders are the ones called to teach. the Only Qualification for an Elder is their maturity in Christ Jesus, and the gifting of the Holy Ghost, which has enabled them to be Apostles prophets, evangelists or teachers of the Word. They are Brethren with all believers, not a higher class of believer, and all believers can mature to the be elders of the faith as they mature. That is what Peter Himself instructs....The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. (1 Peter 5;1-3) This is anything but a hierarchy like the Catholic church has, or for that matter many protestant denominations. What they have is a Nicolaitan system of lording over the laity, as opposed edifying the faithful to maturity and to be elders and teachers themselves.

Imagine if every believer took the great commission seriously and applied to their own lives instead of letting others do the ministering for them. That is the difference between Nicolaitan doctrine and Biblical Christianity. We who are believers now are One with the apostles, we are Brethren, and we are gifted with the same gifts as they were. Jesus Prays: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:20-21) Thus Jesus was extending that Prayer that he prayed for the Apostles that were sent to all who would believe their testimony. He was saying we all will be sanctified through the truth of the word. That we all are sent ones. That we all who believe are called to grow to maturity and become elders in the Church, and that church leadership is not a class thing but a maturity thing. It is not a hierarchy of priests over the laity but the laity growing to maturity and becoming elders.

I Have personally witnessed this sort of Nicolaitanism in the following example. I Knew someone who had a gift of teaching, though he was not an intellectual. He had a simplicity and ability to express complex biblical doctrines in a simple way that made them easy to understand for everyone. One day a Nicolaitan came up to him and questioned his credentials, and tried to silence him because he had none in the way of worldly credentials but he was Holy Spirit taught and gifted teacher. That Church then Lost this Gifted teacher who was replaced by the credentialed one, who overcomplicated doctrine and raised himself up by his intellectual Hubris. Eventually that church died, as so many are dying in this day and age. They stopped producing Ministers, and their numbers dwindled to where they could no longer support the church.

This in itself is a big problem in the Catholic church, is it not? Not having enough Priests and Bishops, and the ones they do have have issues? In the true church, this is never a problem, when one is persecuted and killed another stands up in their place. When one is seduced by the world, and goes after riches, another rises up and takes their place. When one dies of Old age another elder rises up and takes their place. this is the church that gates of hell shall not prevail against, not the one that is dying because of the scandals in their leadership, so they have to move their priests around and conceal their inappropriate behavior, and pay reparations to their victims in clandestine settlements.... You know what I am talking about.... In other words, How are those Nicolaitans in your church doing for you?
 

David H.

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Like I said - YOUR perversionas are based n YOUR misapplication and misdirection whe it comes to Scripture.

I can't MAKE you understand what Christ's Church is and what HE built it to be - NOR, can I ake you understand it complete earthly Authority.
ALL I can do is to point you to the Scriptures and to the Early Church. Christ left His Church in charge for a reason - and 1500 years later, we saw the fruits of rebellion against His Authority. Now, there is mass confision and perpetual-splintering among the Rebels.

Your ideas about the Church are about as wacky as they come around here - and this place is a FOUNTAIN of wackiness . . .

Wasn't it you that was complaining about using Grammarly? "ake, Perversionas, Confision"... alas but I digress....;)

To those who are living in delusion and self deception the Truth is "wacky". For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God. For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent. Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world? For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe. (1 Corinthians 1:18-21)
 

Philip James

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The baton of truth has passed on to others to bring forth the fruits thereof

Hello Brakelight,

It was Jesus Himself who took the 'baton' from those who sat in Moses seat and gave it to the apostles (and their successors!).

Who was it that took it from the bishops and gave it to others? To whom was it given? What evidence do you offer that such a change occurred?

It is never to late, brother, to return to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
 

Philip James

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Protestantism is not biblical

Hello theefaith,

I'm not sure about that... Check out Psalm 2

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

Peace be with you!
 

mjrhealth

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Hello Brakelight,

It was Jesus Himself who took the 'baton' from those who sat in Moses seat and gave it to the apostles (and their successors!).

Who was it that took it from the bishops and gave it to others? To whom was it given? What evidence do you offer that such a change occurred?

It is never to late, brother, to return to the wedding feast of the Lamb of God!

Peace be with you!
It wont be in your church, Christ cannot partake in Harlotry. And your doing the worst thing of all, taking His marriage to His beautiful bride, spotless without blemish, and associating it all with an ugly harlot. You really have stopped so low. Haw far can catholism drag down the glory of God, into the shadows to make it darkness. And you continue to mock them all, God Jesus the Holy Spirit and even Mary and the apostles, what reward is demanded of those who do such a thing. Was it not @theefaith that said the evil should be judged.... As I said to her be careful what your wish for.
 

Marymog

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I doubt anyone is wholly self taught. We all should study theology, but most Christians don't. I'm not sure what you want. I said I read various Christian writers and attended various churches. I try to take the gold from each and leave the dross.
Thank you...You answered my question.

Mary
 

Marymog

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Yes there's one sin that can't be forgiven, permanent rejection of the Spirit. I don't think any verse was written in a vacuum. I see Catholics taking verses out of context constantly.

As for 1 John 5 the message couldn't be clearer:
10 Whoever believes in the Son of God accepts this testimony. Whoever does not believe God has made him out to be a liar, because they have not believed the testimony God has given about his Son.
11 And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son.
12 Whoever has the Son has life; whoever does not have the Son of God does not have life.

Nothing about sin defined in the catogries Catholics define it, but the categories are believers and non believers.
Hi Renniks,

Can you better explain the part in blue?

The reason I am asking you to explain it is because there are some Protestants that agree with Catholics on many verses. There are also verses that the Protestants disagree with other Protestants and Catholics which in effect gives us 3 interpretations of the same verse.

Can you explain to me how it is that you KNOW when someone is taking a verse out of context?

Curious Mary
 

Marymog

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Why should that bother Catholics whose church is founded on tradition and assumed authority?
Hi Backlit,

You are right. The Church (The Catholic Church) "is founded on tradition". One of our first Church leaders, Paul, who had authority in the church at that time told the Thessalonians and Colossians to "hold to the traditions that you were taught by us, either by our spoken word or by our letter."

Here we are 2,000 years later and Catholics are still doing what Paul instructed Christians to do and you Protestants don't like it. Why?



Curious Mary
 

theefaith

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Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ephesians 2:8-9 - For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: (Read More...)

Romans 3:28 - Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

Galatians 2:16 - Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

The church is the body of believers, not a denomination:

The New Testament church began at Pentecost in Acts 2. This is often referred to as the Church Age. The definition for a church is a group that meets regularly (Hebrews 10:24-25) under organized leadership (Hebrews 13:17-18) and practices the purposes that are seen in the early church in Acts 2:42-47.



1 Corinthians 12:12-14 For just as the body is one and has many members, and all the members of the body, though many, are one body, so it is with Christ. For in one Spirit we were all baptized into one body— Jews or Greeks, slaves or free—and all were made to drink of one Spirit. For the body does not consist of one member but of many.

The baptism of the Spirit makes all believers his church.

no it does not
Faith and baptism or the sacraments which are the promises of a better covenant

those verses refer to redemption not salvation

1 cor 13 if I have all faith and no charity it avails nothing

Phil 1:29 not called to faith alone

Romans 13:11
And that, knowing the time, that now it is high time to awake out of sleep: for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

how is that possible???
 

theefaith

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Hello theefaith,

I'm not sure about that... Check out Psalm 2

Why do the nations protest and the peoples grumble in vain?

Kings on earth rise up and princes plot together against the LORD and his anointed:

"Let us break their shackles and cast off their chains!"

Peace be with you!

protestantism is also against the Lord and His holy church
 

theefaith

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In the beginning of the church, this was the case as Only the 120 had the Holy Ghost fall upon them. they are the foundation, but this did not limit who could preach to select few. To the contrary those who the Holy Ghost came upon became leaders of house churches themselves and became Ministers of the Word. Being a minister is not a class of people but based on the maturity of the believer, their ability to digest the meat of the Word. That is why Elders are the ones called to teach. the Only Qualification for an Elder is their maturity in Christ Jesus, and the gifting of the Holy Ghost, which has enabled them to be Apostles prophets, evangelists or teachers of the Word. They are Brethren with all believers, not a higher class of believer, and all believers can mature to the be elders of the faith as they mature. That is what Peter Himself instructs....The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed: Feed the flock of God which is among you, taking the oversight thereof, not by constraint, but willingly; not for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind; Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock. (1 Peter 5;1-3) This is anything but a hierarchy like the Catholic church has, or for that matter many protestant denominations. What they have is a Nicolaitan system of lording over the laity, as opposed edifying the faithful to maturity and to be elders and teachers themselves.

Imagine if every believer took the great commission seriously and applied to their own lives instead of letting others do the ministering for them. That is the difference between Nicolaitan doctrine and Biblical Christianity. We who are believers now are One with the apostles, we are Brethren, and we are gifted with the same gifts as they were. Jesus Prays: Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. (John 17:20-21) Thus Jesus was extending that Prayer that he prayed for the Apostles that were sent to all who would believe their testimony. He was saying we all will be sanctified through the truth of the word. That we all are sent ones. That we all who believe are called to grow to maturity and become elders in the Church, and that church leadership is not a class thing but a maturity thing. It is not a hierarchy of priests over the laity but the laity growing to maturity and becoming elders.

I Have personally witnessed this sort of Nicolaitanism in the following example. I Knew someone who had a gift of teaching, though he was not an intellectual. He had a simplicity and ability to express complex biblical doctrines in a simple way that made them easy to understand for everyone. One day a Nicolaitan came up to him and questioned his credentials, and tried to silence him because he had none in the way of worldly credentials but he was Holy Spirit taught and gifted teacher. That Church then Lost this Gifted teacher who was replaced by the credentialed one, who overcomplicated doctrine and raised himself up by his intellectual Hubris. Eventually that church died, as so many are dying in this day and age. They stopped producing Ministers, and their numbers dwindled to where they could no longer support the church.

This in itself is a big problem in the Catholic church, is it not? Not having enough Priests and Bishops, and the ones they do have have issues? In the true church, this is never a problem, when one is persecuted and killed another stands up in their place. When one is seduced by the world, and goes after riches, another rises up and takes their place. When one dies of Old age another elder rises up and takes their place. this is the church that gates of hell shall not prevail against, not the one that is dying because of the scandals in their leadership, so they have to move their priests around and conceal their inappropriate behavior, and pay reparations to their victims in clandestine settlements.... You know what I am talking about.... In other words, How are those Nicolaitans in your church doing for you?

mall believers have the role of teaching the nations, baptizing the disciples, jurisdictional authority of the keys of the kingdom of heaven, power to bind and loose, govern the church with discipline and administer the promises (sacraments) of the Father?????