Who are the “other sheep” of John 10:16? (For Jehovah's Witnesses)

[face2face]

We believe Jesus-Matt 23:38

And it was Keiw!...

Did you want to quote the next verse?

Put it up in a post and explain it!

Go on Keiw - if you truly believe what Jesus says.

 

[Keiw]

And it was Keiw!...

Did you want to quote the next verse?

Put it up in a post and explain it!

Go on Keiw - if you truly believe what Jesus says.

Yes they must say-blessed is he who comes in Jehovah's name--they have outright refused and never will. They are cut off= your house is abandoned to you. The renting of the banner the moment Jesus died guaranteed that.
What do you think is so funny?

 

[face2face]

Yes they must say-blessed is he who comes in Jehovah's name--they have outright refused and never will. They are cut off= your house is abandoned to you. The renting of the banner the moment Jesus died guaranteed that.
What do you think is so funny?

You cherry pick verses without understanding the context of the verse you have picked.

Matt 23:38

23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Mt 23:39.

How much more Keiw?
When will they say Keiw?

I still think your misquoting of Scripture is humorous and how you try to justify your beliefs, even more so. So far you have been caught out on every verse you have referenced! And correct me if I am wrong but all the correct exposition on those verses not one of them has been addressed by you, not one Keiw. You know what that tells me about your beliefs?

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keiw

Matt 23:38

23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Here is another question for you...

When will they next see him and under what circumstances will the say ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’

How long will their blindness last?

You will need to leave your JW doctrine at the door on this one!

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keiw

While you are thinking about Matthew 38-39, which you quoted - when you answer those questions explain how Psalm 102:13 applies to your answer and why.

What I'm looking for is whether you are a pretender or not....whether you are serious about your faith and beliefs or just regurgitating the wisdom of men.

Lets see.

In the Masters service
F2F

 

[Ritajanice]

Proverbs 9:7 says, “Whoever corrects a mocker invites insult.” Jesus did not respond to people who mocked him. He let his works be his response. After his arrest, he did not respond to his accusers and mockers; he let God respond for him with his resurrection.

 

[Keiw]

You cherry pick verses without understanding the context of the verse you have picked.

Matt 23:38

23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Mt 23:39.

How much more Keiw?
When will they say Keiw?

I still think your misquoting of Scripture is humorous and how you try to justify your beliefs, even more so. So far you have been caught out on every verse you have referenced! And correct me if I am wrong but all the correct exposition on those verses not one of them has been addressed by you, not one Keiw. You know what that tells me about your beliefs?

F2F

When did the Israelite religion bless Jesus?= NEVER its been over 1950 years. They NEVER will.

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw

Matt 23:38

23:39 For I tell you, you will not see me from now until you say, ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’ ”

Here is another question for you...

When will they next see him and under what circumstances will the say ‘Blessed is the one who comes in the name of the Lord!’

How long will their blindness last?

You will need to leave your JW doctrine at the door on this one!

F2F

No mortal alive could answer your question truthfully. I would never leave the teachers who have Jesus.

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw

While you are thinking about Matthew 38-39, which you quoted - when you answer those questions explain how Psalm 102:13 applies to your answer and why.

What I'm looking for is whether you are a pretender or not....whether you are serious about your faith and beliefs or just regurgitating the wisdom of men.

Lets see.

In the Masters service
F2F

God did that for them when out of his great love sent his son for them. They rejected him, thus God rejected them. They sent Gods own son to his death out of hatred.

 

[face2face]

When did the Israelite religion bless Jesus?= NEVER its been over 1950 years. They NEVER will.

So you dont believe what Jesus says...okay.

 

[face2face]

No mortal alive could answer your question truthfully. I would never leave the teachers who have Jesus.

A pretender!

 

[face2face]

God did that for them when out of his great love sent his son for them. They rejected him, thus God rejected them. They sent Gods own son to his death out of hatred.

And I thought hopefully you could read the Lords words correctly.

How much more? Rom 11
When will they say? Matt 23

Answer the questions Keiw.

F2F

 

[face2face]

@Keiw

There is quite a lot of pressure on you here, you know. You provided Matthew 23:28 which you thought proved your point only to find the Master's teaching continued and taught you something entirely different to what your elders have taught you. I've spoken to many JW's over the years and while I admire them in many ways, they have a tendency to "lock in" certain beliefs, which have no premise in the Bible. Your doctrine on the 144,000 is clearly one which we have proven incorrect many times in this forum and now your position on natural Israel is also amiss.

Out of interest, if you were to go back and revisit "The Divine Plan of the Ages by Charles Russell" you will find your community had truth and let it go. You should read his work, its actually very good and it would show you the right interpretation of Matthew 23:28-29.

Isn't there an irony here, I am not a JW and I'm encouraging you to read your pioneers work.

http://dabhar.org/wt/CTRussellPDF/VOLUME1.PDF

Ha the Irony.

Happy to go through it with you.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

@Keiw

There is quite a lot of pressure on you here, you know. You provided Matthew 23:28 which you thought proved your point only to find the Master's teaching continued and taught you something entirely different to what your elders have taught you. I've spoken to many JW's over the years and while I admire them in many ways, they have a tendency to "lock in" certain beliefs, which have no premise in the Bible. Your doctrine on the 144,000 is clearly one which we have proven incorrect many times in this forum and now your position on natural Israel is also amiss.

Out of interest, if you were to go back and revisit "The Divine Plan of the Ages by Charles Russell" you will find your community had truth and let it go. You should read his work, its actually very good and it would show you the right interpretation of Matthew 23:28-29.

Isn't there an irony here, I am not a JW and I'm encouraging you to read your pioneers work.

http://dabhar.org/wt/CTRussellPDF/VOLUME1.PDF

Ha the Irony.

Happy to go through it with you.

F2F

I know100% my teachers are correct-0 doubt in all creation. The world is about to find out that fact.

 

[face2face]

I know100% my teachers are correct-0 doubt in all creation. The world is about to find out that fact.

So you admit you got Matt 23:38 wrong? And you understand the Lords teaching in verse 39? You stand in verse 38 but fall in verse 39?

Why is it so many people in this forum quote Scripture to support their teaching only to find they have half the story or no story at all?

As Paul said in Galatians 4 I am perplexed for you.

F2F

 

[Keiw]

So you admit you got Matt 23:38 wrong? And you understand the Lords teaching in verse 39? You stand in verse 38 but fall in verse 39?

Why is it so many people in this forum quote Scripture to support their teaching only to find they have half the story or no story at all?

As Paul said in Galatians 4 I am perplexed for you.

F2F

No i didn't admit that Stop deceiving. Your post makes 0 sense.

 

[face2face]

No i didn't admit that Stop deceiving. Your post makes 0 sense.

Yes you did!
You quoted verse 38 incorrectly, implying God was finished with his people and then you failed to interpret verse 39 (at all!) so your silence has placed you in this precarious position. The only deceiving going on here is found in your posts. You are all boastful about verse 38 and when verse 39 is shown to you, you run a mile.

How much more
When will they say?

F2F

 

[RR144]

The little flock is the fold mentioned, not literal Israel religion. They refuse to do Matt 23:39 thus are cut off. Spiritual Israel is now Gods chosen. A new religion began back then-Acts 24:5

And WHERE in the context of John 10:16 does it say that? You can't just isolate a verse and attach it to another and make up a belief system.

 

[RR144]

If you read scripture as written, you will see that in the creation of humankind God acted once...He created all things, and then rested on the 7th day and allowed the humans to make their choices in accordance with his instructions.......he obviously had in mind an idyllic existence for them and all they had to do was to comply with one limitation that he placed on them.......it wasn’t difficult, nor did it impose any hardship on them......but when the original rebel stepped in and derailed God’s purpose for their creation, only then did he react to their free willed choices.

Ah, so God didn't know, He was totally taken off guard. He had no idea that in creating free-will, it could be abused? Not much of a God you have there. You see, my Jehovah knows it all. It's a thought-out plan, because no matter how many times He could create or even re-create the world of mankind, sin was always at the door, and how would He deal with it? He couldn't stop it! So, he let it play out, but He was always in control.

Silly? Does God automatically know everything or can he choose not to know? If he gave humans free will, it is obvious that they can make any one of several choices concerning many matters. God would have a contingency plan for all eventualities so that whatever they chose to do, he would respond accordingly.

And as I said, He did. But he knew that "contingency plan" before it even happened, because that's what any architect does when he creates. He counts the cost, he tests everything. He doesn't just create and then thinks to himself, "alright, let's see how this goes."

How long did it take you to find translations that rendered the word “prothesis” as “plan” rather than “purpose”?

You wanna play Scripture? Ok, also From NASB Strongs....

So Adam and Eve can PLAN, but Jehovah can't?

And the Lord said, “Behold, they are one people, and they all have the same language. And this is what they have started to do, and now nothing which they plan to do will be impossible for them. Gen. 11:6​

So the Tabernacle just erected itself or did the Israelites follow Jehovah's PLAN?

Then you shall erect the tabernacle according to its plan which you have been shown on the mountain. Ex.26:30​

​

Hmmm .... a Divine Plan?

Then the Lord answered Job from the whirlwind and said, “Who is this who darkens the divine plan By words without knowledge? Job 38:1,2​

Jesus was a Predetermined plan??? Oh my!

22 “Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a Man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know— 23 this Man, delivered over by the predetermined plan and foreknowledge of God, you nailed to a cross by the hands of godless men and put Him to death. 24 But God raised Him from the dead, putting an end to the agony of death, since it was impossible for Him to be held in its power. Acts 2:22-24​

The Plan of his will

In Him we also have obtained an inheritance, having been predestined according to the purpose of Him who works all things in accordance with the plan of His will. Ephesians 1:11​

​

A Plan hidden for ages?

​

and to enlighten all people as to what the plan of the mystery is which for ages has been hidden in God, who created all things. Ephesiasn 3:9​

Proof

Yes, and that is why Jehovah cannot have a plan as much as he has a purpose. Free will makes a plan impossible.....a purpose is achieved regardless of obstacles placed in the path.

"Free will makes a plan impossible"? Really? How so?

God never alters his purpose, but sometimes he has to get there via a different route.

Going a different route is an alteration.

Did God plan for the devil to rebel? Did he plan for Adam and Eve to sin? Did he go to all the trouble of making them a garden paradise, only to evict them for abusing their free will?

And that my dear is the whole purpose of why God permits evil, and when you understand that, you'll understand why God has a Plan.

Do you really think that God planned for the flood to happen? Or was it a reaction to what the demon angels had done?

Genesis 6:6 says that “Jehovah regretted that he had made men on the earth, and his heart was saddened.” (NWT) And, in response, God determined to destroy all life on the earth. Now, it would be easy to read this and see a God who was caught off guard by how sinful humanity had become. A God who became so angry that he decided to wipe out the whole mess and start over again. But it is hard to reconcile that with a God who is omniscient, who knows the future. A God who had chosen Christ as our atoning sacrifice before the foundation of the world (1 Pet. 1:20). The word translated as “regretted” in Genesis 6:6 could also be translated as “be grieved.” And that seems to be to better fit here. This is an emotional response from the creator over what his creation has become. Even though he knew it would come to this, it was still destressing to him. God is not an impersonal force or entity with no feelings for his creation. Rather, he is intimately involved with his creation. We see him expressing delight in what he has done. And disappointment in what we have done with his creation.

Did he plan for Israel to be disobedient and to worship other gods, or did he have to keep correcting and punishing them in order to keep his purpose in connection with them, on track. They were chosen for a specific purpose and God fulfilled his purpose, even though they made it very difficult for him

Israel's rebellion is a result of sin, just as Adam and Eve rebelled and they were perfect, how much so from imperfect beings?

God revealed his purpose from Genesis to Revelation and we see how often he was forced to take a side-step to keep things as they should be. Did he plan for the Israelites to wander in the wilderness for 40 years? Did he plan for them to be exiled in Babylon for 70 years? Did he plan for Moses not to enter the promised land when he had liberated his people and guided them through the wilderness all that time? Did God plan for John the Baptist to be murdered? Where do you stop and think about how often things had to be dealt with as they arose?

Yes he did.

Free will does not fit in with a plan.....but it does fit in with a purpose. A plan is the route....a purpose is the destination. God always reaches his desired destination, no matter what route he has to take to get there.

God has a Plan, and whatever doesn't conform to that Plan is done away with. There are prophecies set out in Scriptures, they were to begin and end at a certain time. God's time, was that God's purpose or did He plan it that way? I believe the latter.

 

[BlessedPeace]

It has long been thought the other sheep are the Gentiles.

Jesus said he is sent only for the list sheep of the house of Israel.
Yet,he said he has other sheep not of this,Israel, fold.
Those would be the sheep who are not Jews.