Latter Rain

Gideons300 · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
My question was, how does this relate to Latter Rain doctrine?

Because here it sounds like you are thinking more like me, that our relationship with God is more personal than corporate, that we're not waiting for some special outpouring on the church, rather, He's already poured out into our hearts, and we need to see this and walk in it.

Much love!

It is both. We may be doing wonderfully in the Lord, but we are all part of the corporate church. Joshua came back after spying out tge land of promise, full of faith that they could take the land, but as a whole, fear and unbelief ruled. Did Joshua go in then? No, it took 40 years of unbelief dying out with Joshua and Caleb finally leading the children of the Exodus Israelites in to inherit what God has already given them.

There is synergy as an entire group of saints have their affections set only on things above. Can a man, can you, can I, walk in victory today, this very minute? Absolutely, for as you said, we have been given all things needed to do so.

Yet with that said, how much more wonderful will it be when all of the saints are burning with love for God and for each other.

Two are better than one, and a threefold cord is not easily broken, amen?

And if we are truly walking in an abiding relationship, should it not be our deep desire to see others walk in such a place as well? Should it not concern us when lethargy, worldliness, shallowness and willful sin have been found choking the life out of our brothers and sisters?

blessings,

Gids

marks · Jan 21, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Do you not believe in backsliding or weak Christians? Paul talks a lot about varying levels of faith.

And straightway the father of the child cried out, and said with tears, Lord, I believe; help thou mine unbelief! (Mark 9:24)

You must have an extraordinary experience. God won't help a person any more than they want help. He's really big on religious liberty.

Coming back to the new man and the old man, I've got the idea that the new man works righteousness, and the old man does not. So therefore, any holding back from God must result from the mind of the flesh, not the mind of Christ.

If my thoughts are from the mind of Christ, I won't be weak of faith, and I won't be drawn to sin. I think of trusting in Jesus for my daily living as being like, that I know He's given me a new mind, and I know He's given me the power to live by that new mind, a mind conformed to Jesus. As a child of God, God has promised to disciple me - chasten, to train in all the ways one trains a child - and that for my good, which is to say, He will fix me. He will chasten me, and it will work.

Any thoughts not towards God, not desireous of holy living, are flesh thoughts, to be taken captive. Identify, Isolate, and Negate. Realize when my thinking isn't right, and choose right thinking, which is to think the ways the Bible teaches.

Much love!

marks · Jan 21, 2021

Gideons300 said:
And if we read verses like the one to the Laodecians, and harden our hearts to the exhortation to repent, to overcome,

Do not harden your heart.

But even if you as a child of God should harden your heart, this is from your flesh, not your spirit, and God will work in your life to soften your heart.

Gideons300 said:
And yet, even with this, excuses are made as to why the words are not directed at us. We are told they were not part of the church at all. Thus, the lukewarm son lets out a sigh of relief, says "Yeah, grace!" and goes back to his lukewarmness, convinced he has need of nothing.

Are you seriously trying to convince me that my riches in Christ are worthless?

Or what are you trying to say here? Perhaps a more clear statement would be useful.

Much love!

charity · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
I'm reminded of Zechariah's prophecy,

Zechariah 13:2-4
2) And it shall come to pass in that day, saith the LORD of hosts, that I will cut off the names of the idols out of the land, and they shall no more be remembered: and also I will cause the prophets and the unclean spirit to pass out of the land.
3) And it shall come to pass, that when any shall yet prophesy, then his father and his mother that begat him shall say unto him, Thou shalt not live; for thou speakest lies in the name of the LORD: and his father and his mother that begat him shall thrust him through when he prophesieth.
4) And it shall come to pass in that day, that the prophets shall be ashamed every one of his vision, when he hath prophesied; neither shall they wear a rough garment to deceive:

Is this after Jesus returns? What are your thoughts here?

Much love!

'And I will pour upon the house of David,
and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem,
the spirit of grace and of supplications:
and they shall look upon Me Whom they have pierced,
and they shall mourn for Him,
as one mourneth for His only son,
and shall be in bitterness for Him,
as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.'
(Zechariah 12:10)

Hi @marks

Zechariah 13:1, says:- 'In that day there shall be a fountain opened to the house of David and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem for sin and for uncleanness.' That day' in which the events of Zechariah 12:9-14 will have come to pass, when the People of Israel shall look on Him who they have pierced, and mourn. It is then that this fountain for cleansing will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, which will have a literal fulfillment, as will the events in the verses which follow which you have quoted. The land will be cleansed of evil, in all it's forms, including false prophets with their lies. Yes this takes place after the Lord returns.

In the verses that follow (Zechariah 13:6-7), the Messiah is shown in contrast with the false prophets, and speaks of His past rejection at His first advent, in response to the peoples questions concerning the wounds in His hands, for it was following his crucifixion that He as the Lord's Shepherd, was taken from the sheep, and they were scattered:-

'And one shall say unto Him,
What are these wounds in thine hands?
Then He shall answer,
Those with which I was wounded in the house of My friends.
Awake, O sword, against My Shepherd,
and against the man that is My fellow, saith the LORD of hosts:
smite the Shepherd, and the sheep shall be scattered:
and I will turn mine hand upon the little ones.'
(Zec 13:6-7)

*Thank you, marks, for I have not seen that before. How wonderful!

'He came unto His own, and His own received Him not.
But as many as received Him, to them gave He power
to become the sons of God,
even to them that believe on His Name: ... '
(Joh 1:11)

With love In Christ Jesus
Chris

marks · Jan 21, 2021

Gideons300 said:
It is both. We may be doing wonderfully in the Lord, but we are all part of the corporate church. Joshua came back after spying out tge land of promise, full of faith that they could take the land, but as a whole, fear and unbelief ruled. Did Joshua go in then? No, it took 40 years of unbelief dying out with Joshua and Caleb finally leading the children of the Exodus Israelites in to inherit what God has already given them.

There is synergy as an entire group of saints have their affections set only on things above. Can a man, can you, can I, walk in victory today, this very minute? Absolutely, for as you said, we have been given all things needed to do so.

Yet with that said, how much more wonderful will it be when all of the saints are burning with love for God and for each other.

Two are better than one, and a threefold cord is not easily broken, amen?

And if we are truly walking in an abiding relationship, should it not be our deep desire to see others walk in such a place as well? Should it not concern us when lethargy, worldliness, shallowness and willful sin have been found choking the life out of our brothers and sisters?

blessings,

Gids

So again I ask the question . . . I don't know if anyone has given a clear and direct answer . . . What will God give of His Spirit then, in the Latter Rain, that He has not already given to His children today?

Faith? Power over sin? Unity with the saints? Ability to perform God's works? What do we lack now, that a Latter Rain will supply? Growth?

I believe we have everything that we need for life and Godliness and fruitfulness, and to fulfull all of God's desire for our lives. That all God wants for His church, that He's given us His Spirit. Christ in you, the hope - expectation - of glory.

If God isn't giving something to the church, then He's not giving it to me. But He's given Christ to me, and tells me all of God is in Christ, and I have in Him received every spiritual blessing. Every one! Can you believe it?

If your brother sins, you who are spiritual restore them. Certainly! Truth will set us all free!

Much love!

marks · Jan 21, 2021

charity said:
It is then that this fountain for cleansing will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem, which will have a literal fulfillment, as will the events in the verses which follow which you have quoted. The land will be cleansed of evil, in all it's forms, including false prophets with their lies. Yes this takes place after the Lord returns.

The river that flows from under the temple?

Much love!

BarneyFife · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
So again I ask the question . . . I don't know if anyone has given a clear and direct answer . . . What will God give of His Spirit then, in the Latter Rain, that He has not already given to His children today?

Do you believe people were saved differently before Pentecost than after?

BarneyFife · Jan 21, 2021

Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. (Joel 2:23)

Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest. (Jeremiah 5:24)

Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (Hosea 6:3)

That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. (Deuteronomy 11:14)

marks · Jan 21, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Do you believe people were saved differently before Pentecost than after?

Now there's a question!!

I believe that people are all saved the same way, by believing God's message to them. But God's message is different at different times. Abraham, called the father of us all, was saved by this faith being counted as righteousness. And what was God's message to Abraham? Can you count the stars? You're going to have more kids than that!

When they came to Sinai, God's message was, keep My covenant and this I will do for you. And sacrifice will cover your sin.

When Jesus came to preach, it was to announce, the kingdom of God is near, a kingdom God had been promising Israel for a long time.

And when Peter preached, the message was to repent and receive Him, your Messiah, and receive your kingdom.

And Paul urges us, be reconciled to God, He became sin so you can become righteous.

OK, this is very overly simplified.

Between the cross and Pentecost, Jesus was with the disciples, and breathed on them, to receive the Holy Spirit. Then, on Pentecost, all were baptized in the Spirit. This in itself shows different activities, but I can only speculate on what it means. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Much love!

Truther · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
But actually what I was asking, what of His Spirit will God give to me then, if I'm here at the time, that He's not giving to me now?

Much love!

More souls.

That is what satisfies us.

BarneyFife · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
Now there's a question!!

I believe that people are all saved the same way, by believing God's message to them. But God's message is different at different times. Abraham, called the father of us all, was saved by this faith being counted as righteousness. And what was God's message to Abraham? Can you count the stars? You're going to have more kids than that!

When they came to Sinai, God's message was, keep My covenant and this I will do for you. And sacrifice will cover your sin.

When Jesus came to preach, it was to announce, the kingdom of God is near, a kingdom God had been promising Israel for a long time.

And when Peter preached, the message was to repent and receive Him, your Messiah, and receive your kingdom.

And Paul urges us, be reconciled to God, He became sin so you can become righteous.

OK, this is very overly simplified.

Between the cross and Pentecost, Jesus was with the disciples, and breathed on them, to receive the Holy Spirit. Then, on Pentecost, all were baptized in the Spirit. This in itself shows different activities, but I can only speculate on what it means. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Much love!

Basically, God gives us what we need when we need it if we are seeking Him.

marks · Jan 21, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Be glad then, ye children of Zion, and rejoice in the LORD your God: for he hath given you the former rain moderately, and he will cause to come down for you the rain, the former rain, and the latter rain in the first month. (Joel 2:23)

Neither say they in their heart, Let us now fear the LORD our God, that giveth rain, both the former and the latter, in his season: he reserveth unto us the appointed weeks of the harvest. (Jeremiah 5:24)

Then shall we know, if we follow on to know the LORD: his going forth is prepared as the morning; and he shall come unto us as the rain, as the latter and former rain unto the earth. (Hosea 6:3)

That I will give you the rain of your land in his due season, the first rain and the latter rain, that thou mayest gather in thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil. (Deuteronomy 11:14)

Are not these referring to God's covenant with Israel, and that He would bless their crops?

Much love!

marks · Jan 21, 2021

Truther said:
More souls.

That is what satisfies us.

This would be the result. I'm asking something different, rather, what power or property inside us is missing until this latter rain come?

Much love!

BarneyFife · Jan 21, 2021

marks said:
Are not these referring to God's covenant with Israel, and that He would bless their crops?

Much love!

Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

The early church had no New Testament.

What did Christ mean when he asked Nicodemus about the new birth and conversion? He expected the rulers of Israel to understand the Atonement process. The Levitical service was meant to illustrate the Gospel.

BarneyFife · Jan 21, 2021

From the time of Moses until "the fulness of time was come" the law had deteriorated into a burdensome, meaningless set of rituals.

Moses prophesied the Messiah:

I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him. (Deuteronomy 18:18)

Truther · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
This would be the result. I'm asking something different, rather, what power or property inside us is missing until this latter rain come?

Much love!

Until Jesus returns, we have only a "partial" experience, merely seeing through a 'very dark glass".

This is it.

Nothing will get more visible until he is seen face to face at the Millennial reign.

I just hope God will pour out His Spirit in a greater way before this event.

marks · Jan 22, 2021

BarnyFife said:
Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. (1 Corinthians 10:11)

And beginning at Moses and all the prophets, he expounded unto them in all the scriptures the things concerning himself. (Luke 24:27)

The early church had no New Testament.

What did Christ mean when he asked Nicodemus about the new birth and conversion? He expected the rulers of Israel to understand the Atonement process. The Levitical service was meant to illustrate the Gospel.

But should we define the operation of the Holy Spirit in our lives according to the precepts of the OT Law?

Here's another way I think of this.

In the OT, people may experience "and the Holy Spirit came upon him . . ." These were times when the Holy Spirit would come upon someone for some specific purpose. For Sampson, it was to provoke confrontation with the Philistines as a means of ridding Israel of them, at least for a time. For David it was to rule as king, and to write the songs of the heart of our Lord. For others, it was to prophesy, or win battles.

But no one before that Pentecost was baptized in the Holy Spirit. Immersed into Christ. United to God by the Spirit of Christ.

Before, the Holy Spirit was given to specific individuals, and we're not told of all that many, really. But then the Holy Spirit was poured out on all flesh, no distinction anymore.

Acts 2:38-39
38) Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
39) For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Do we not receive that same Holy Spirit?

Much love!

marks · Jan 22, 2021

Truther said:
Until Jesus returns, we have only a "partial" experience, merely seeing through a 'very dark glass".

This is it.

Nothing will get more visible until he is seen face to face at the Millennial reign.

I just hope God will pour out His Spirit in a greater way before this event.

My hope is that we have the faith the receive all the working of His Holy Spirit in and through us now.

Much love!

Truther · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
My hope is that we have the faith the receive all the working of His Holy Spirit in and through us now.

Much love!

Agreed! I am praying to get all I can from the Holy Ghost while I am here, right now.

I am becoming a "Holy Ghost addict".

I was discovered when folks saw my tracts.

David H. · Jan 22, 2021

marks said:
Between the cross and Pentecost, Jesus was with the disciples, and breathed on them, to receive the Holy Spirit. Then, on Pentecost, all were baptized in the Spirit. This in itself shows different activities, but I can only speculate on what it means. Do you have any thoughts on this?

Before Pentecost, when Christ breathed on the disciples and they received the Holy Ghost, they were Born again under the new covenant. The New covenant having been ratified by the death and resurrection of the Testator. (Hebrews 9:16) When the Holy Ghost came on them t Pentecost this was their ordination as Elders, giving them the gifts needed to lead the church.

You could not be a born again believer until after the death of Christ on the cross, which is why we had the baptism of John, this Baptism was no longer in effect after the death burial and resurrection of Christ as the new covenant by his Blood was in effect then. We can see this also play out in Acts with the people who had received the Baptism of John when they became born again and received the Holy Ghost. See Acts of the Apostles18:25, and Acts of the Apostles 19:1-7...

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