Hebrews 10:26-31

justbyfaith · Feb 4, 2021

marks said:
I would just LOVE it if you were to actually learn what Gnosticism was before trotting it out against me again. This is what the Holy Spirit tells you to write?

This is purely "Guilty by Association". Everybody knows the Gnostics are wrong. Mark is Gnostice, ergo, Mark is wrong.

This is neither accurate nor honest, not in my mind. And you continue to do this.

Please, learn what Gnosticism is!

Much love!

marks said:
To be sure, I have no idea what you mean when you say, "our spirit man cannot be involved in what we do in the flesh". That's nothing like anything I've written, and "involved" leaves it pretty wide open what you have in mind.

Again, I realize you had written that to impugn my view by comparing to a cultic view, even though any similarity is purely on the surface, if you put your words to make it look that way . . .

Just the same . . . I don't know what you mean when you write this above, but what Paul wrote was, It is no longer I, but sin that lives in me, and you won't understand that topic until you can understand this verse without trying to make it say something different, or calling Paul Gnostic.

Much love!

I do know what gnosticism is; and I know when someone is preaching it. You may not be doing that on purpose.

I am not identifying your doctrine as gnostic as some kind of tactic to disparage what you are saying, @marks. The doctrine that you are preaching truly is based in the core of what gnosticism teaches. I had hoped that you would see this so that you could reject the doctrine that you are teaching and preach more in alignment with sound doctrine.

Gnosticism teaches that matter is evil and that spirit is good; and that therefore what we do in the flesh doesn't matter (is not really us sinning) because it has nothing to do with our born again spirit.

Is not the latter part of that, in essence, what you are teaching?

If not, you are certainly free to explain yourself at this juncture.

Because it seems to me that you are saying that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter. At least, that seems to be the natural conclusion of what you are saying.

marks · Feb 4, 2021

justbyfaith said:
I do know what gnosticism is; and I know when someone is preaching it. You may not be doing that on purpose.

I am not identifying your doctrine as gnostic as some kind of tactic to disparage what you are saying, @marks. The doctrine that you are preaching truly is based in the core of what gnosticism teaches. I had hoped that you would see this so that you could reject the doctrine that you are teaching and preach more in alignment with sound doctrine.

Gnosticism teaches that matter is evil and that spirit is good; and that therefore what we do in the flesh doesn't matter (is not really us sinning) because it has nothing to do with our born again spirit.

Is not the latter part of that, in essence, what you are teaching?

If not, you are certainly free to explain yourself at this juncture.

Because it seems to me that you are saying that what we do in the flesh doesn't matter. At least, that seems to be the natural conclusion of what you are saying.

Round and round we go . . .

But there is no need to continue this. It's not an honest discussion in my opinion.

As if! I teach Gnosticism.

You'll be on ignore again . . .

justbyfaith · Feb 4, 2021

marks said:
It's not an honest discussion in my opinion.

Just as long as you realize that that is only your opinion...

Tong2020 · Feb 4, 2021

justbyfaith said:
I do not claim to be perfect now, nor do I believe myself to be perfect now;

However, I accept the biblical teaching that we can be perfected in this life (1 Thessalonians 5:23-24 (kjv), Hebrews 10:14 (kjv), 1 John 3:9; 1 John 3:7, 1 John 3:3, 1 John 2:6; Jude 1:24, 2 Peter 1:10, 1 John 2:10; 1 John 3:6, 1 John 2:17; Romans 6:6 (kjv), Colossians 2:11 (kjv), (NLT).

That’s clear then, you aren’t perfect now.

Do you know of even one who have reached perfection during his life on earth?

Tong
R1701

justbyfaith · Feb 4, 2021

Tong2020 said:
That’s clear then, you aren’t perfect now.

Do you know of even one who have reached perfection during his life on earth?

Tong
R1701

I have met people whom I believe were entirely sanctified, yes.

But they were the kind of people who would never have broadcasted that reality. They went to the Nazarene Church; so that reality was a major part of the doctrine that they believed in. But they left it up to the pastor to preach the truth/doctrine of entire sanctification. That they had obtained it themselves, is clear to me.

But of course, it might be easy for you to question that. Because there is the issue of whether or not the inside of the cup and platter was clean. As human beings, we can only judge the outside.

Nevertheless, I don't think that these men and women were hypocrites.

Tong2020 · Feb 4, 2021

justbyfaith said:
Yes, and if anyone has the gift of "discerning of spirits", the Holy Spirit judges certain people through him as to whether they are saved or unsaved; because He knows the truth of the matter and relays it to the individual doing the "judging".

That individual may not judge that other individual on the basis of works; but on the basis of the impression given to him by the Holy Spirit. For the Lord has already done the judging on the basis of works.

The gift of discernment of spirit is not what you think it is and is for. You know perhaps that that is a gift of the Holy Spirit. They were given to the church for some purposes but not to use it judging people, especially a brethren, whether he is saved or not, is not one of them.

Tong
R1702

Tong2020 · Feb 4, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
I don't see any difficulty in judging people's behavior. Why is it difficult for you?

Judging behavior is different from judging the person or judging the heart of a person.

And why do you think I have difficulty in judging behavior? I don’t.

Tong
R1703

BloodBought 1953 · Feb 4, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Judging behavior is different from judging the person or judging the heart of a person.

And why do you think I have difficulty in judging behavior? I don’t.

Tong
R1703

“ By The Works Of the Law ( a complete 613 item , step by step guide to “Good Behavior” ) , NO Flesh will be JUSTIFIED !
If you INSIST on “ Judging”..... at least judge something “ Pertinent” to one’s Salvation ....Hint—- It AIN’T Behavior....
It’s OBEDIENCE....” Obedience” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing....
You’ll find it in 1Cor15:1-4........
Paul makes clear that on Judgement Day, we will be “ JUDGED by MY ( Paul’s) Gospel “....it’s no big Secret .....( Romans 2:16 )
Come Judgement Day, God ain’t gonna be checking your Behavior.....He will be Checking your Faith in Jesus Christ .....If you are a Believer in the Gospel Of Jesus Christ , all your Bad Behavior is Forgotten ( “ I will remember your sins no more” ). Your Sins were paid for at the Cross and you “ Cashed In” on that Payment with Faith....
Ironically, the Guys and Gals That REJECTED that Gospel—- their Sins were paid for also! So what’s the Problem ? Why are they Damned and the Believer is not? They failed to “ Cash In” on what Jesus had already accomplished for them by His Shed Blood.....They had no Faith.
“ Without Faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God...”
“ By Grace , you are Saved, through FAITH “...... See anything in there about “ Behavior ?”....I though not.....
Be as Well- Behaved as you can be.God will bless you for it—- In this life and the next! Just realize that when it comes to Salvation, you may as well judge somebody’s “ Body Mass Index” ....it’s just as Relevant....

justbyfaith · Feb 4, 2021

Tong2020 said:
The gift of discernment of spirit is not what you think it is and is for.

Just what do you think that it is and is for?

The gift of "discerning of spirits" is given when you have the truth and also preach it to others. Then, if they will not hear the truth, you can be certain that they have the spirit of error (1 John 4:6).

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Come Judgement Day, God ain’t gonna be checking your Behavior...

Behaviour will, in fact, be a major aspect of what we will be judged by on our day of judgment (John 5:29, 2 Corinthians 5:10, Revelation 20:12).

The blood of Jesus sanctifies (Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7).

And therefore, if a man is justified by the blood of Jesus (Romans 5:9), he will also be sanctified and cleansed.

That means that his behaviour will change for the better. He will not any longer be a "worker (doer) of iniquity" (Matthew 13:41-42; Matthew 7:23, Matthew 25:41).

For those who are workers (doers) of iniquity will be cast into the furnace of everlasting fire (cf. scripture referenced above).

God is no respecter of persons (Colossians 3:25); and if you think you are a Christian this is included in that. You may think that your sins are covered by the blood of Jesus Christ but according to the verse above those who do what is wrong will receive for what they have done and there is no respect of persons.

If someone thinks that they are justified by the blood of Christ but have not also been sanctified, let them ask this question: will the blood of Jesus be applied and not perform all of its functions?

Can it justify (as per Romans 5:9) and not also sanctify (as per Hebrews 13:12, Hebrews 10:29) and cleanse (as per 1 John 1:7)?

Therefore, if you have not been sanctified and cleansed by the blood of Jesus, can you even claim that it has been applied for justification?

justbyfaith · Feb 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
That’s clear then, you aren’t perfect now.

Do you know of even one who have reached perfection during his life on earth?

Tong
R1701

The fact that I do not claim to be perfect and also do not believe that I am perfect does not preclude that this means that I am not, in fact, perfected.

For it is the attitude of everyone who is perfect that "...I do not count myself to have apprehended: but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and pressing forth unto those things which are before, I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded..." (Philippians 3:13-15).

This is another reason why, if the truth is in you, you will never claim to be without sin (1 John 1:8).

Ferris Bueller · Feb 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
Judging behavior is different from judging the person or judging the heart of a person.

No, they are not different. Judging behavior is how you judge the person....

10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God 1 John 3:10

That's what Paul did when he passed judgment on the man at Corinth who was sleeping with his step mother....

3Although I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit, and I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesusa and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.1 Corinthians 5:3-5

Paul judged this person as being unsaved by his behavior. He did in fact judge his heart by how he was living. There's nothing wrong with doing that. It's an entirely Biblical teaching. What he did NOT do is pass eternal judgment on him. That's the purview of God alone. Our judgment is limited to where a person is at this moment in time. And we do that for the purpose of warning that person of their fate if they do not repent, and for protecting ourselves and the church from their influence.

Tong2020 said:
And why do you think I have difficulty in judging behavior? I don’t.

Then you have no difficulty judging the person. Judging behavior is how you judge the person. Not for eternity. That would be condemning the person. That's the 'judging' we can't do.

Ferris Bueller · Feb 5, 2021

@Tong2020

Here's some more judging of people by their behavior......

9 ...Diotrephes, who loves to be first, will not accept our instruction. 10So if I come, I will call attention to his malicious slander against us. And unsatisfied with that, he refuses to welcome the brothers and forbids those who want to do so, even putting them out of the church.11Beloved, do not imitate what is evil, but what is good. The one who does good is of God; the one who does evil has not seen God.12Demetrius has received a good testimony from everyone, and from the truth itself. We also testify for him, and you know that our testimony is true. 3 John 1:9-12

Tong2020 · Feb 5, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
“ By The Works Of the Law ( a complete 613 item , step by step guide to “Good Behavior” ) , NO Flesh will be JUSTIFIED !
If you INSIST on “ Judging”..... at least judge something “ Pertinent” to one’s Salvation ....Hint—- It AIN’T Behavior....
It’s OBEDIENCE....” Obedience” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing....
You’ll find it in 1Cor15:1-4........
Paul makes clear that on Judgement Day, we will be “ JUDGED by MY ( Paul’s) Gospel “....it’s no big Secret .....( Romans 2:16 )
Come Judgement Day, God ain’t gonna be checking your Behavior.....He will be Checking your Faith in Jesus Christ .....If you are a Believer in the Gospel Of Jesus Christ , all your Bad Behavior is Forgotten ( “ I will remember your sins no more” ). Your Sins were paid for at the Cross and you “ Cashed In” on that Payment with Faith....
Ironically, the Guys and Gals That REJECTED that Gospel—- their Sins were paid for also! So what’s the Problem ? Why are they Damned and the Believer is not? They failed to “ Cash In” on what Jesus had already accomplished for them by His Shed Blood.....They had no Faith.
“ Without Faith, it is IMPOSSIBLE to please God...”
“ By Grace , you are Saved, through FAITH “...... See anything in there about “ Behavior ?”....I though not.....
Be as Well- Behaved as you can be.God will bless you for it—- In this life and the next! Just realize that when it comes to Salvation, you may as well judge somebody’s “ Body Mass Index” ....it’s just as Relevant....

I don’t know the point of all that, why you responded like so to my post.

I am not out insisting judging others. To the contrary, my position in my discussion with FerrisB and JBF, is I don’t encourage that.

Now, when I said I have no difficulty in judging behavior in response to FerrisB’s post to me, does not mean I am out judging others. For to me, judging behavior means judging if a certain behavior is good or bad. That’s all there is to that.

Tong
R1710

Tong2020 · Feb 5, 2021

justbyfaith said:
Just what do you think that it is and is for?

The gift of "discerning of spirits" is given when you have the truth and also preach it to others. Then, if they will not hear the truth, you can be certain that they have the spirit of error (1 John 4:6).

It is what it says “discerning of spirits”. It is about the ability to discern or distinguish spirits. It’s to tell if the spirit for example is of the devil or not, or if it’s good or bad spirit, or if it’s spirit of division or unity, or of love, or of hatred, and so on. Having that gift helps the church in making wise and good decisions, giving guidance to the church, etc.

It’s not for judging the hearts of a person.

Tong
R1711

Tong2020 · Feb 5, 2021

justbyfaith said:
The fact that I do not claim to be perfect and also do not believe that I am perfect does not preclude that this means that I am not, in fact, perfected.

So, are you perfect or not? Are you perfect and you just don’t want to say and claim or believe that you are, or what? Or you simply don’t know?

Well,....

Tong
R1712

Tong2020 · Feb 5, 2021

Ferris Bueller said:
No, they are not different. Judging behavior is how you judge the person....

10 By this the children of God are distinguished from the children of the devil: Anyone who does not practice righteousness is not of God 1 John 3:10

That's what Paul did when he passed judgment on the man at Corinth who was sleeping with his step mother....

3Although I am absent from you in body, I am present with you in spirit, and I have already pronounced judgment on the one who did this, just as if I were present. 4When you are assembled in the name of our Lord Jesusa and I am with you in spirit, along with the power of the Lord Jesus, 5hand this man over to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, so that his spirit may be saved on the Day of the Lord.1 Corinthians 5:3-5

Paul judged this person as being unsaved by his behavior. He did in fact judge his heart by how he was living. There's nothing wrong with doing that. It's an entirely Biblical teaching. What he did NOT do is pass eternal judgment on him. That's the purview of God alone. Our judgment is limited to where a person is at this moment in time. And we do that for the purpose of warning that person of their fate if they do not repent, and for protecting ourselves and the church from their influence.

If they are the same to you, it is not to me. For me, judging behavior means judging if a certain behavior is good or bad. It is behavior I judge, not the person. Why I do not judge people is, I might be judging wrongly and so sin. I don’t want to be judged wrongly as well. The behavior of a person change. Why a person behaves in a certain way may be because of something which I am not aware of or have no knowledge of.

Not that Paul did that, that it means it could necessarily be done by any Christian or it be made into some doctrine. Paul is an apostle, chosen and hand-picked by the Lord Jesus Himself. He was out establishing the church, specially of the Gentiles. Resting upon him is a great responsibility. That said, it is reasonable to think that he was given not only authority by God, but many gifts, for him to be able to carry out his responsibilities righteously, justly, and truthfully. Another point perhaps is, if Paul was given power to raise the dead and heal the sick, it is not surprising that he could make such judgment over the man with error. But we are not Paul, unless like Paul you were given the authority and ability to judge like so, then you can.

Another reason why I don’t judge and won’t judge any man especially with regards his person, as far as I can resist doing it, is because of this scriptures:

1 Cor.4:3But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by a human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4For I know of nothing against myself, yet I am not justified by this; but He who judges me is the Lord. 5Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord comes, who will both bring to light the hidden things of darkness and reveal the counsels of the hearts. Then each one’s praise will come from God.

Tong
R1713

Ferris Bueller · Feb 5, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
“ By The Works Of the Law ( a complete 613 item , step by step guide to “Good Behavior” ) , NO Flesh will be JUSTIFIED !
If you INSIST on “ Judging”..... at least judge something “ Pertinent” to one’s Salvation ....Hint—- It AIN’T Behavior....
It’s OBEDIENCE....” Obedience” to Paul’s Gospel Of Grace Plus Nothing....
You’ll find it in 1Cor15:1-4........

Here's how Jesus will be judging us on the day of judgment.....

31When the Son of Man comes in His glory, and all the angels with Him, He will sit on His glorious throne. 32All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate the people one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will place the sheep on His right and the goats on His left.34Then the King will say to those on His right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave Me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me something to drink, I was a stranger and you took Me in, 36I was naked and you clothed Me, I was sick and you looked after Me, I was in prison and you visited Me.’37Then the righteous will answer Him, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry and feed You, or thirsty and give You something to drink? 38When did we see You a stranger and take You in, or naked and clothe You? 39When did we see You sick or in prison and visit You?’40And the King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of Mine, you did for Me.’41Then He will say to those on His left, ‘Depart from Me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave Me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave Me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not take Me in, I was naked and you did not clothe Me, I was sick and in prison and you did not visit Me.’44And they too will reply, ‘Lord, when did we see You hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to You?’45Then the King will answer, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for Me.’

46And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life.”

You'll find it in Matthew 25:31-46

Michiah-Imla · Feb 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
But we are not Paul, unless like Paul you were given the authority and ability to judge like so, then you can.

Are we Jesus?

But yet Jesus said this:

John 14:12 KJV
Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.

Proverbs 20:11 KJV
Even a child is known by his doings, whether his work be pure, and whether it be right.

BloodBought 1953 · Feb 5, 2021

Tong2020 said:
I don’t know the point of all that, why you responded like so to my post.

I am not out insisting judging others. To the contrary, my position in my discussion with FerrisB and JBF, is I don’t encourage that.

Now, when I said I have no difficulty in judging behavior in response to FerrisB’s post to me, does not mean I am out judging others. For to me, judging behavior means judging if a certain behavior is good or bad. That’s all there is to that.

Tong
R1710

My response was not intended as a attack on you..
I was seizing an opportunity to make a point.....that point being , Behavior is not the Criteria for Salvation....Faith is !
That being the case, we need less “SIN Awareness” and more “SON Awareness”......

Ferris Bueller · Feb 5, 2021

Blood Bought 1953 said:
Behavior is not the Criteria for Salvation....Faith is !

Correct. Behavior is just the criteria by which Jesus will judge if you have faith. Matthew 25:31-46

Hebrews 10:26-31

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads