Methodism, Sanctification, and Dangerous Doctrine

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Pathfinder7

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Camp Meeting in Virginia around the old, Methodist Episcopal Church South mourners bench! Dear to me is this chapter of the book because I experienced so much of the wonderful things the author talks about in this work! The Life of George Clark Rankin, who himself became a circuit rider, and beginning on page 239 tells of the old Saint of the Wilderness, Robert Sheffey...

I passed my examinations and that year I was sent to the Wytheville Station and Circuit. That was adjoining my former charge. We reached the old parsonage on the pike just out of Wytheville as Rev. B. W. S. Bishop moved out. Charley Bishop was then a little tow-headed boy. He is now the learned Regent of Southwestern University. The parsonage was an old two-and-a-half-story structure with nine rooms and it looked a little like Hawthorne's house with the seven gables. It was the lonesomest-looking old house I ever saw. There was no one there to meet us, for we had not notified anybody of the time we would arrive.

Think of taking a young bride to that sort of a mansion! But she was brave and showed no sign of disappointment. That first night we felt like two whortleberries in a Virginia tobacco wagonbed. We had room and to spare, but it was scantily furnished with specimens as antique as those in Noah's ark. But in a week or so we were invited out to spend the day with a good family, and when we went back we found the doors fastened just as we had left them, but when we entered a bedroom was elegantly furnished with everything modern and the parlor was in fine shape. The ladies had been there and done the work. How much does the preacher owe to the good women of the Church!

The circuit was a large one, comprising seventeen appointments. They were practically scattered all over the county. I preached every other day, and never less than twice and generally three times on Sunday.

I had associated with me that year a young collegemate, Rev. W. B. Stradley. He was a bright, popular fellow, and we managed to give Wytheville regular Sunday preaching. Stradley became a great preacher and died a few years ago while pastor of Trinity Church, Atlanta, Georgia. We were true yokefellows and did a great work on that charge, held fine revivals and had large ingatherings.

The famous Cripple Creek Campground was on that work. They have kept up campmeetings there for more than a hundred years. It is still the great rallying point for the Methodists of all that section. I have never heard such singing and preaching and shouting anywhere else in my life. I met the Rev. John Boring there and heard him preach. He was a well-known preacher in the conference; original, peculiar, strikingly odd, but a great revival preacher.

One morning in the beginning of the service he was to preach and he called the people to prayer. He prayed loud and long and told the Lord just what sort of a meeting we were expecting and really exhorted the people as to their conduct on the grounds. Among other things, he said we wanted no horse- trading and then related that just before kneeling he had seen a man just outside the encampment looking into the mouth of a horse and he made such a peculiar sound as he described the incident that I lifted up my head to look at him, and he was holding his mouth open with his hands just as the man had done in looking into the horse's mouth! But he was a man of power and wrought well for the Church and for humanity.

The rarest character I ever met in my life I met at that campmeeting in the person of Rev. Robert Sheffy, known as "Bob" Sheffy. He was recognized all over Southwest Virginia as the most eccentric preacher of that country. He was a local preacher; crude, illiterate, queer and the oddest specimen known among preachers. But he was saintly in his life, devout in his experience and a man of unbounded faith. He wandered hither and thither over that section attending meetings, holding revivals and living among the people. He was great in prayer, and Cripple Creek campground was not complete without "Bob" Sheffy. They wanted him there to pray and work in the altar.

He was wonderful with penitents. And he was great in following up the sermon with his exhortations and appeals. He would sometimes spend nearly the whole night in the straw with mourners; and now and then if the meeting lagged he would go out on the mountain and spend the entire night in prayer, and the next morning he would come rushing into the service with his face all aglow shouting at the top of his voice. And then the meeting always broke loose with a floodtide.

He could say the oddest things, hold the most unique interviews with God, break forth in the most unexpected spasms of praise, use the homeliest illustrations, do the funniest things and go through with the most grotesque performances of any man born of woman.

It was just "Bob" Sheffy, and nobody thought anything of what he did and said, except to let him have his own way and do exactly as he pleased. In anybody else it would not have been tolerated for a moment. In fact, he acted more like a crazy man than otherwise, but he was wonderful in a meeting. He would stir the people, crowd the mourner's bench with crying penitents and have genuine conversions by the score. I doubt if any man in all that conference has as many souls to his credit in the Lamb's Book of Life as old "Bob" Sheffy.

At the close of that year in casting up my accounts I found that I had received three hundred and ninety dollars for my year's work, and the most of this had been contributed in everything except money. It required about the amount of cash contributed to pay my associate and the Presiding Elder. I got the chickens, the eggs, the butter, the ribs and backbones, the corn, the meat, and the Presiding Elder and Brother Stradley had helped us to eat our part of the quarterage. Well, we kept open house and had a royal time, even if we did not get much ready cash. We lived and had money enough to get a good suit of clothes and to pay our way to conference. What more does a young Methodist preacher need or want? We were satisfied and happy, and these experiences are not to be counted as unimportant assets in the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider.
"..the life and work of a Methodist circuit rider.."
Recently, I started reading.. stories of 'Circuit Riders' again.
 
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rockytopva

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Pictured below is the Pentecostal Holiness farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me. And I acquired these things myself in like methods of the GC Rankin testimony in earlier posts.

Dallas.... Jesus in the family! What a happy home!
Dallas_zps81e23487.jpg

You can hear Dallas shouting in the background. Dallas, Gertrude, and Pastor Vaught have all went to glory.

And the old Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church. I have never heard such singing , preaching, and shouting anywhere else in my entire life! And there was no room for cold ego in the hearts of these folks.
Merrimac_zps2a25944e.jpg
 

rockytopva

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And our church singing the Pentecostal Holiness favorite, complete with shouting, “I’ll Fly Away!” There were times of revival in which I would anticipate the heavens opening and calling us all away!

 
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quietthinker

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The Holy Ghost is never a witness to itself and neither are those who have it!
 

Pathfinder7

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Pictured below is the Pentecostal Holiness farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me. And I acquired these things myself in like methods of the GC Rankin testimony in earlier posts.

Dallas.... Jesus in the family! What a happy home!
Dallas_zps81e23487.jpg

You can hear Dallas shouting in the background. Dallas, Gertrude, and Pastor Vaught have all went to glory.

And the old Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church. I have never heard such singing , preaching, and shouting anywhere else in my entire life! And there was no room for cold ego in the hearts of these folks.
Merrimac_zps2a25944e.jpg
Many years ago, I was at the Pentecostal meeting.
- It was camp meeting...in a tent ( with sawdust trail! )
- My first & only time.. 'sawdust trail' meeting!
----
I am working on book project.
- One part is on 'Revivals/Spiritual Awakenings
in Christian History.'
----
Revivals/Spiritual Awakenings had powerful impact in United States.
- Great Awakenings ( 3 )
Azusa Steet Revival..the beginning of Pentecostal movement.
- Global impact.
& Other Revivals/Awakenings..
----
Interesting to note:
Some historians view..The Great Awakening had influence on American Revolution.
 
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amigo de christo

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And our church singing the Pentecostal Holiness favorite, complete with shouting, “I’ll Fly Away!” There were times of revival in which I would anticipate the heavens opening and calling us all away!

YES INDEED on the DAY OF THE LORD the lambs are GONNA FLY TO THE KING . OH LET ALL PRAISE and REJOICE IN THE GLORIOUS LORD .
Them old time hyms are the best .
 
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Berserk

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In 1870 40% of all Americans were Methodists. American Pentecostalism has never experienced such a widespread effective move of the Spirit. The key tot his revival was the weekly class meeting in which members were asked to share the inner and outer state of their soul. Regular true confession! Then around 1900 the class meeting was made optional and fell into disuse. Methodism has paid the price for that error ever since!

I am Pentecostal by experience and upbringing and think the Spirit is grieved by those who desert the UMC church in its hour of greatest need. Many miracles in the UMC church I pastored1
 
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rockytopva

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In 1870 40% of all Americans were Methodists. American Pentecostalism has never experienced such a widespread effective move of the Spirit. The key tot his revival was the weekly class meeting in which members were asked to share the inner and outer state of their soul. Regular true confession! Then around 1900 the class meeting was made optional and fell into disuse. Methodism has paid the price for that error ever since!

I am Pentecostal by experience and upbringing and think the Spirit is grieved by those who desert the UMC church in its hour of greatest need. Many miracles in the UMC church I pastored1
The Pentecostal Holiness church was also helped founded by a Baptist minister, Benjamin Hardin Irwin who wrote, "We stand on Christ the solid rock," he wrote, "justified, cleansed through the blood, consecrated, baptized with the Holy Ghost and fire; and praise the Lord our God that the outcome is a definite work of sanctification and holiness as well as a progressive work.” - http://bicarchives.messiah.edu/files/Documents18/1981-2-december_1981.pdf
 

rockytopva

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I am going to post this twice as I think these things important... It is important, for the sake of spirituality, that we divide the man into three parts… Physical, Spiritual, and Intellectual. If E = mc2 then we can divide and conclude that...

Mass (m) = Energy (E/c2) And there are three varieties...

Natural E/c2 - All mass is basically cooled plasma, the sun is the visible form of E/c2
Mental E/c2 - Our thinking can produce creativeness, light, and good things
Spiritual E/c2 - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)

The Natural E/c2 in the form of mass produces a gravity that attracts other objects
The Intellectual E/c2 produces a gravity that draws us to study
The Spiritual E/c2 also has a gravity that draws and makes religion attractive

Just Because....
  1. Natural E/c2 - You were once upon a time physically fit does not mean you are so now.
  2. Intellectual E/c2 - You were once intelligent does not mean you are so now.
  3. Spiritual E/c2 - You were once filled with the Holy Spirit does not mean you are so now.
The light and the energy must be maintained and updated on a daily basis. I believe a good and quality spirit is paramount. I know of a pastor who got his masters degree in divinity, but has no people or character skills, in which is unfortunate.

Who is among you that feareth the Lord, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of the Lord, and stay upon his God. - Isaiah 50:10

And to imagine spiritual three extremes....

Light - E (motivation, warmth, love) / c2 (faith, hope, charity, joy)
Flesh - I have heard so akin to the devil it is hard to discern between the two
Darkness z (absolute zero, laziness, coldness) / d (darkness, fear, despair, greed, sorrow)

I am into a movement as long as an appropriate light shines through the believer. I find light, flesh, and darkness can accompany the same mental doctrine. In which case it is important to have good leaders in a church, in which we had at our Pentecostal Holiness church here...

 

theefaith

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Fundamentalism: faith without reason
Atheism: reason without faith

Redemption, Justification, Sanctification, and Salvation!

Redemption: 100 percent the work of God, thru the life, death, resurrection, and ascension of Jesus Christ! All mankind are redeemed in Christ! Eph 2
Galatians 2:16 3:13
Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law...
Christ alone accomplished the redemption of mankind apart from any works on our part!

Justification: our acceptance of redemption thru faith and baptism! Become a disciple and member of Christ and His Church! Jn 3:5 acts 2:38 Mk 16:16 He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ.


Sanctification: the life of grace in the holy sacrifice of the mass and sacraments, prayer, virture, and good works, the just living by faith, and faith working thru love! Phil 1:29 called to suffer with Christ.
All done in Christ thru His grace! Jn 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

Salvation: a christian in the state if grace at the moment of death we enter into the salvation of the Lord! Mt 24:44-47 faithful servant! Jn 15:1-5 abide in me. Mt 24:13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.
Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Heb 6:11 And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:
Heb 4:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;
Rom 13:11 ...for now is our salvation nearer than when we believed.

Suffering required for glorification with Christ!

Romans 8:17
And if children, then heirs; heirs of God, and joint-heirs with Christ; if so be that we suffer with him, that we may be also glorified together.

2 Timothy 2:12
If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:




1 Pet 3:20
Which sometime were disobedient, when once the longsuffering of God waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was a preparing, wherein few, that is, eight souls were saved by water.

21 The like figure whereunto even baptism doth also now save us!
(Ark of Noah a type of the church, member of Christ and his church and salvation by baptism!)
(Outside the ark all died and outside the church there is no salvation!)
 

justbyfaith

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Fundamentalism: faith without reason

Can't let this go by without correcting.

Fundamentalism is faith with reason.

It is the understanding that the Bible is the word of God and the absolute authority on all matters of faith and reason.

Here is the verse that tells me that fundamentalism is reasonable.

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Now of course, in order to come to the understanding of fundamentalism, you would have to come to the knowledge somehow that the Bible is the word of the Lord.

This can be determined by all sorts of evidences. The thing that convinced me was the prophecy about Cyrus in Isaiah 45. God called Cyrus by name 400 years before he was born and prophesied what he would do in the kingdom of Israel.

This tells me that the Bible is the word of God. There are many prophecies in the Bible that have been fulfilled in such a manner; and those that have not been fulfilled simply have not yet been fulfilled; they are speaking of things yet future to us.

Another such prophecy is the one in Isaiah 66:7-9 about Israel becoming a nation again; which happened on May 14, 1948.
 

theefaith

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Can't let this go by without correcting.

Fundamentalism is faith with reason.

It is the understanding that the Bible is the word of God and the absolute authority on all matters of faith and reason.

Here is the verse that tells me that fundamentalism is reasonable.

Isa 1:18, Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.

Now of course, in order to come to the understanding of fundamentalism, you would have to come to the knowledge somehow that the Bible is the word of the Lord.

This can be determined by all sorts of evidences. The thing that convinced me was the prophecy about Cyrus in Isaiah 45. God called Cyrus by name 400 years before he was born and prophesied what he would do in the kingdom of Israel.

This tells me that the Bible is the word of God. There are many prophecies in the Bible that have been fulfilled in such a manner; and those that have not been fulfilled simply have not yet been fulfilled; they are speaking of things yet future to us.

Another such prophecy is the one in Isaiah 66:7-9 about Israel becoming a nation again; which happened on May 14, 1948.

the Bible is the word of God but not the only word of God, and not the final authority the church is!

for example: Lk 3:2 word of the Lord came unto John
By what book chapter and verse?

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.
 

theefaith

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A man of God quote in quote driving around in a hurst with a sign saying don’t be caught dead without Jesus! that’s faith
But it’s not reasonable!
 

justbyfaith

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the Bible is the word of God but not the only word of God, and not the final authority the church is!

As a Protestant believer I simply disagree with you.

A man of God quote in quote driving around in a hurst with a sign saying don’t be caught dead without Jesus! that’s faith
But it’s not reasonable!

See 2 Corinthians 5:13.
 

theefaith

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Pictured below is the Pentecostal Holiness farmer I would work for in the hay field... Dallas would shout at work, shout in the hay field, and shout in church. He would also speak in tongues and run the aisles. He and his wife would operate a dairy farm and he would also work at the local ammunition plant. A very large soul his shouting would ring through the building. In the altar services he would kneel behind me in prayer and tears would roll off his cheek and onto my shoulders. A wonderfully large soul. Along with Dallas there were many others like him who would let the praises roll during church service. During the altar service old Evans Linkous used to weep like a baby. And if he were to look back to catch the amazed look in my eye he would weep, "The Holy Ghost! The Holy Ghost!" And point to all the souls being blessed around the altar. After I experienced these things for myself the people would make a fuss, or in the words of the Apostle Paul, glorify God in me. And I acquired these things myself in like methods of the GC Rankin testimony in earlier posts.

Dallas.... Jesus in the family! What a happy home!
Dallas_zps81e23487.jpg

You can hear Dallas shouting in the background. Dallas, Gertrude, and Pastor Vaught have all went to glory.

And the old Merrimac Pentecostal Holiness church. I have never heard such singing , preaching, and shouting anywhere else in my entire life! And there was no room for cold ego in the hearts of these folks.
Merrimac_zps2a25944e.jpg

Old time heresy!
Get the real old time religion of the apostles acts 2:42
 

Hidden In Him

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I have heard that when one is sanctified the first ones to know about it will be the family pets. Instead of kicking them you will rub them and show them love. I knew too many in my time who taught sanctification on the clothesline. In which the ladies were required to wear dresses and the men dress pants. Which in itself may not be bad. My problem is when the religious appearance is not accompanied with a good spiritual experience.

I like that observation. :)
 
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Hidden In Him

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That's good!

I've been aware for some time how my spiritual maturity is reflected in my relationship with our cats. I've never been mean to animals, I've always loved animals, but I can tell the difference!

Much love!

I was thinking about this just today. There have been a few times when I had to discipline the dogs, and rather severely, but they have been so rare, and the thing that sticks out now is how much love I give them on a daily basis, and how much love they return.

I think it's a wonderful observation, because it reflects on what our "ministry" really is. Is it primarily about rules, or is it primarily about ministering to others in love.
 
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marks

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I was thinking about this just today. There have been a few times when I had to discipline the dogs, and rather severely, but they have been so rare, and the thing that sticks out now is how much love I give them on a daily basis, and how much love they return.

I think it's a wonderful observation, because it reflects on what our "ministry" really is. Is it primarily about rules, or is it primarily about ministering to others in love.
All that matters is faith expressing itself through love.

I heard that somewhere.

Much love!
 
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