Absolutely not... simply because we don't see this being done in God Word.
Those getting baptized are the ADULTS that just got born again... then, they got baptized.
If folks would just stick to the Word of God!
The False Doctrine of Infant Baptism
- Thread starter Hobie
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Absolutely not... simply because we don't see this being done in God Word.
Those getting baptized are the ADULTS that just got born again... then, they got baptized.
If folks would just stick to the Word of God!
To Augustin56:
In the Calvinistic view, the interpretation of biblical passages, especially those related to faith, works, and salvation, tends to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the process of salvation. Works are seen as a result of true faith, and faith itself is viewed as a gift from God. The concept of predestination is often central to Calvinism, asserting that God has already determined who will be saved.
To Big Boy Johnson:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the emphasis is on the sovereignty of God in salvation. The discussion about baptism and its significance may revolve around the understanding of the relationship between faith and works. While some may hold the view that baptism is a public expression of one's faith, others may stress the internal work of the Holy Spirit in the believer.
To Rella:
In the Calvinistic viewpoint, the discussions on baptism and household dynamics might center around the understanding of God's sovereignty in salvation. The emphasis on faith being a gift from God may influence interpretations of passages related to baptism and the age of accountability. The disagreements between denominations and the nuances in interpretations may be viewed through the lens of God's predetermined plan.
To Cassandra:
Within the Calvinistic framework, the personal decision aspect of baptism may align with the emphasis on God's sovereignty. The idea that faith is a gift from God may lead to discussions about when and how a person comes to a true understanding of their faith. The emphasis on a personal relationship with Jesus may resonate with the Calvinistic view of salvation as a work of God.
To amigo de christo:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the emphasis on belief as a prerequisite for baptism aligns with the view that faith is a gift from God. The discussions about household baptisms may involve considerations of individual faith within the broader context of God's sovereign plan for salvation. The engagement with biblical examples like the eunuch's question reflects a focus on belief as an essential component.
To Randy Kluth:
In the Calvinistic understanding, discussions about baptism and personal decisions may involve a recognition of God's sovereignty in the salvation process. The emphasis on personal faith and the age of accountability aligns with the Calvinistic view that faith is a gift from God. The role of water baptism may be seen as an outward expression of an inward, God-given faith.
To Bob Estey:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the discussions about baptism and its connection to salvation may emphasize the sovereignty of God. The question about baptizing children may lead to considerations of when a person is capable of genuine faith, aligning with the Calvinistic view that faith is a gift from God. The focus on the child's personal decision may resonate with the idea of God's work in individual hearts.
In the Calvinistic view, the interpretation of biblical passages, especially those related to faith, works, and salvation, tends to emphasize the sovereignty of God in the process of salvation. Works are seen as a result of true faith, and faith itself is viewed as a gift from God. The concept of predestination is often central to Calvinism, asserting that God has already determined who will be saved.
To Big Boy Johnson:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the emphasis is on the sovereignty of God in salvation. The discussion about baptism and its significance may revolve around the understanding of the relationship between faith and works. While some may hold the view that baptism is a public expression of one's faith, others may stress the internal work of the Holy Spirit in the believer.
To Rella:
In the Calvinistic viewpoint, the discussions on baptism and household dynamics might center around the understanding of God's sovereignty in salvation. The emphasis on faith being a gift from God may influence interpretations of passages related to baptism and the age of accountability. The disagreements between denominations and the nuances in interpretations may be viewed through the lens of God's predetermined plan.
To Cassandra:
Within the Calvinistic framework, the personal decision aspect of baptism may align with the emphasis on God's sovereignty. The idea that faith is a gift from God may lead to discussions about when and how a person comes to a true understanding of their faith. The emphasis on a personal relationship with Jesus may resonate with the Calvinistic view of salvation as a work of God.
To amigo de christo:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the emphasis on belief as a prerequisite for baptism aligns with the view that faith is a gift from God. The discussions about household baptisms may involve considerations of individual faith within the broader context of God's sovereign plan for salvation. The engagement with biblical examples like the eunuch's question reflects a focus on belief as an essential component.
To Randy Kluth:
In the Calvinistic understanding, discussions about baptism and personal decisions may involve a recognition of God's sovereignty in the salvation process. The emphasis on personal faith and the age of accountability aligns with the Calvinistic view that faith is a gift from God. The role of water baptism may be seen as an outward expression of an inward, God-given faith.
To Bob Estey:
In the Calvinistic perspective, the discussions about baptism and its connection to salvation may emphasize the sovereignty of God. The question about baptizing children may lead to considerations of when a person is capable of genuine faith, aligning with the Calvinistic view that faith is a gift from God. The focus on the child's personal decision may resonate with the idea of God's work in individual hearts.
I'm into the perspective of what the Lord says that He compiled in that Book He had published.
Thanks for thinking of me, but I'll pass on calvinist anything
Ah, Big Boy Johnson, the connoisseur of divine literature, steering clear of the Calvinistic feast of doctrines. It's like avoiding a theological buffet and opting for a simpler, straightforward menu.
But, my friend, in the realm of Calvinism, we find delight in the intricacies of predestination, irresistible grace, and unconditional election. It's a divine drama scripted by the Sovereign Playwright.
Imagine a theological circus, with Calvinists juggling the doctrines and acrobatically navigating through TULIP petals. A performance where the audience is predestined to witness the divine spectacle.
Yet, here you stand, preferring the unembellished words from the sacred Book, unadorned by the Calvinistic nuances. It's as if you've chosen the classic novel over a densely plotted theological thriller.
So, let the Calvinistic show go on, with its intricate theological choreography. Meanwhile, Big Boy Johnson remains steadfast, finding comfort in the simplicity of the Lord's published masterpiece.
In this grand theological carnival, may your journey through the pages of that Book be filled with laughter, wisdom, and an unwavering commitment to the truths you hold dear. After all, in the divine comedy of doctrines, we each have our preferred seat. Cheers to your literary pilgrimage, my discerning friend!
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Interesting especially with the saying Jesus came
Who can be baptised?
Anyone God wants to be.
You cannot prove that the Jailer, Lydia, Stephanus or Crispus had no infants in their complete households.
And until you can you dont know.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Augustin56
Well-Known Member
Couple points I'd like to throw out there for your consideration:
1. Nowhere in Scripture does Scripture say it is the sole source of Divine Revelation. In fact, it says the opposite.
2. Are you claiming infalibility in your personal interpretation of Scripture? If not, then your personal opinion is no better than anyone
elses, right? That's why there are literally tens of thousands of different believing denominations, all based on someone's personal
interpretation of Scripture, which Scripture warns against.
3. Your viewpoint came way late in history, long after the fact. Babies have been baptized for millenia. Baptism IS the born again
experience.
Randy Kluth
Well-Known Member
I agree. But "Infant Baptism" isn't really "baptism" in the biblical sense. It is more of a "Parent Dedication" than the child pursuing Christ through repentance!
Biblically, a person does not get baptized to get Saved. Rather, he gets Saved and is then Baptized as a Public Testimony. Baptism is a picture of Salvation, but is not itself Salvation.
1 Cor 1.17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel.
The promise that your entire household will be saved... does not supersede what Jesus said about one must be born again to enter in to His Kingdom.
If my momma is a Christian... that don't mean I can live like the devil and still be saved cuase I lived in momma's household.
I heard some name it claim it folks saying all this once. They actually believe their children did not have to get born again because they were confessing that them and their household are saved cause they believed.
I agree. But "Infant Baptism" isn't really "baptism" in the biblical sense. It is more of a "Parent Dedication" than the child pursuing Christ through repentance!
Biblically, a person does not get baptized to get Saved. Rather, he gets Saved and is then Baptized as a Public Testimony. Baptism is a picture of Salvation, but is not itself Salvation.
It is true that dunkin you baby doesn't do anything but get them wet.
But, as a matter of obedience... Jesus said getting baptized IS a requirement:
Matthew 28:19
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Mark 16:15
And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.
Now, we do see Jesus making an exception due to extenuating circumstance where getting baptized was not something that could be done... and that is the thief on the Cross next to Jesus.
This guy became a believer and after having become a believer he had no opportunity to go get dunked in water... and yet Jesus said the guy would be saved.
So if someone gets saved on their death bed or when the plane is going down, or some other crazy situation where there is no chance to be baptized then they would still be saved.
And no, the water does not wash away our sins. Only the Blood of Jesus can do that.
So, for those that refuse to be baptized having had opportunity to do so... would not be saved because they intentionally disobeyed Jesus.
If you ever want to have some fun, go talk to Church of Christ people about the thief on the Cross because most of them claim the guy went to hell... which one would have to believe Jesus lied to the guy to come to that conclusion.
And, some of the other Church of Christ people will claim this guy had gotten baptized before becoming a believer in Jesus (like with John the Baptist) but the Bible always shows people getting baptized after having become a believer so that explanation doesn't fit scripture.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
But if your momma is a christian it does mean according to 1 Cor 7:14 For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy.
So if your momma is a Christian... you are holy.... cause Paul (again) would not lie.
But it does not say the unbaptized shall be damned. Where is that in the bible?
Now... that should tell everyone something.. I see 4 exceptions in the bible. The 4 households
Exactly
But if one was baptised without knowing why what about them? Baptised as a teen now at age 80 has no idea what it was for.
I prefer to stay away from them as it was they... who refuse a baptism to me as an adult
because they had me convinced my baby baptism did not count and I was Not saved or going to be.
So I set about and talked to 2 c of Christ groups near me and one said I would do better to go to the other for less steps.... (my mom) ...
and he came and talked with us for about an hour and then said he would bring it up to
whoever???? and then days later "they" declined to baptize us... because we would not be coming c of Christ members.
After that I found out my denomination says that any baptism in the church is to be done only once..... because any baptism is a sacrament as ordered by Jesus.
OK so we throw Jesus out... and follow Paul?
So, I could go live with my mom and go back to doing drugs and getting drunk like I did as a young man and... I would go to Heaven even as I'm living like the devil?
Jesus said in Mark 16:16 "He that believeth AND is baptized shall be saved"
In Acts 2:38 we read - Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins
God's Word clearly instructs us to be baptized, so it's all good if we decide to discard these instructions?
They have access to God's Word... the Lord will prove that on judgement day, so they are without excuse
Getting dunked before getting born again... is just getting wet.
Besides, you can baptize yourself if need be, just go all the way under the water and read the scriptures about being dead with Christ and then being raised up with Him unto life.
Lots of churches decline to do anything for those who are not church members.
Getting dunked as a baby... wasn't a baptism since that was done before you got born again.
In the Bible you only see people getting baptized AFTER they have become believers.
Rella ~ I am a woman
Well-Known Member
Then Ill have to consider myself damned.
I have no way to baptize myself. No tub large enough no swimming pool.
I have physical problems and I care full time for my mom with dementia... but that is my problem, no one elses.
My church, which I guess I can discount now cause it failed me always said only an ordained minister of God can baptize. Was that a lie? Please say yes so I can truly quit them.
I probably missed it but what lay people in the bible baptized anyone?
John the Baptist had authority. Jesus sent out those to whom he gave authority.
No, dont answer that.
I am done with this subject.
But I can tell you a truth. It would have been better to have been aborted then to face uncertainty.All those little aborted babies are resting in the love of God. They certainly are not condemned and could have no "original sin" as they never made it into this world.
Have a great life.
amigo de christo
Well-Known Member
Ye cannot prove they did .
as i wrote above many no longer have infants in their family because the infants grew into children .
You can go into a lot of houses and test this if you like .
SOME houses will have infants , some will have older children , some will be only a man and his wife and elderly parents .
What i can prove , and that by scripture , is that YE MUST BELIEVE IN JESUS to be baptized .
That i can prove and did prove .
That's exactly what 'ol slewfoot is trying to get you to do.
You should rebel against the forces of darkness!
I'm sure there is a public swimming pool within driving distance from where you are at.
Sure, it would be the norm to have a church leader baptize you... but if you truly cannot find one than I'd call all other churches in the area and tell them you need assistance being baptized.
Nah, man that's just the devil trying to get in to your head and mess with you.
One has to stand up to that bully and kick him out in Jesus Name!
This may very well be one of those extenuating circumstances if you truly have no way to get to a swimming pool. Are there no health clubs in your area. Most of those places have hot tubs.
If it were me and I truly could not go anywhere, I'd probably turn the shower on full blast and count walking under the water as being submerged and walking out of the water and coming up out of the water.
Then I'd ask the Lord to forgive me for not studying my Bible about this in my younger years and ask Him to accept your heart being right about it now and do the shower thing while praise and thanksgiving and move on from there.
The thing to NOT do at this point is listen to the devil. It's good to not complain and instead keep an attitude of praise and thanksgiving before the Lord.
And IF there was any wrong doing on your part for not getting this done earlier in life, then use 1 John 1:9 and believe the Lord's promise in this verse. Mercy rejoices against judgement (James 2:13), so if you think you could have done better earlier in life but didn't.... just ask the Lord to forgive you for any shortcomings and He will.
There is always somewhere you can be baptised. I left the Anglican church because it was against their traditions to 're-baptise' those who had been 'baptised' as infants. I obeyed God's word to me to get baptised by joining a house church which 'borrowed' the baptismal pool of a tiny local evangelical church. Also people have been baptised in my bath. There is always a way if you want to obey.
Well, folks, gather 'round for a cosmic confession comedy! Picture this: I, the daring cosmic character, went and violated the sacred Westminster Confessions by taking a dip for a second round of baptism. Blame it on the wily antics of Arminianism – that mischievous cosmic troublemaker.
Yep, there I was, knee-deep in theological waters, baptized once and then, bam, Arminianism whispered in my celestial ear, "Hey, why not go for round two? It's a theological thrill ride!"
Now, the Westminster Confessions are giving me the side-eye like, "What in the cosmic constellations are you doing?" And I'm left wondering if this celestial dip was entirely necessary or just a splash of theological mischief.
So, here's to the comedic conundrum of violating confessions and blaming it on Arminianism – a theological escapade where the cosmic punchline is still floating in the baptismal font!
So do Calvinist consider it necessary to be baptized if they already 'saved' under God's predetermined plan
Ah, Hobie, diving into the theological waters like a curious dolphin! In the Calvinistic comedy club, the question of baptism creates a divine splash, and we're about to explore this theological pool with a sprinkle of humor and a dash of Calvinistic wisdom.
Now, in the Calvinistic perspective, salvation is seen as part of God's predetermined plan, like a divine script written in the heavenly archives. The comedy comes alive as we navigate the baptismal seas, where the emphasis on God's sovereignty takes center stage.
Imagine this: A Calvinist walks up to the baptismal font, and it's like a cosmic scene from a theological play. The Calvinistic actor might say, "Well, folks, I'm already on the salvation train, predestined and all. But here's the twist – baptism becomes our divine cameo, a public proclamation, like a heavenly selfie with God's predetermined filter."
It's not about adding a plus one to salvation but a divine drama of obedience, a theatrical nod to the cosmic director. The Calvinist may say, "Sure, I'm saved, but why not join the baptismal party? It's like God's way of saying, 'You're already on board, but let's make it Instagram-official.'"
Now, Hobie, in the Calvinistic comedy, the necessity of baptism is less about earning salvation points and more about dancing to the divine choreography. It's the heavenly encore, a watery celebration of God's sovereign plan. So, picture the Calvinist wading into the baptismal pool with a smile, saying, "Saved and soaked – all part of the divine comedy!"
Shall we continue our theological dance through the Calvinistic waters, Hobie?
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