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What I believe we can gain in these discussions is a knowledge of how people come to different views while affirming the same passages. I think we all know much of each other's view (at least the "classic view" of Atonement, Penal Substitution Theory, and Substitution Theory are strongly...

I'll buy lunch. :p I'm spending the day in Charleston and it's a nice place to be.

I will ask again (for about the 5th time) and not to start an argument but for edification: @Enoch111 and @David Taylor have claimed that those who reject Penal Substitution Theory are rejecting Scripture. Thus far not one rejected passage has been provided as evidence or edification. As most...

Have you noticed that you have not even provided one verse I have denied? You and @David Taylor keep making the claim (I assume simply trying to slander by repeating the lie), but neither of you can provide one verse I reject. What I reject is your interpretation of Scripture and what you...

But I am right :p (that other interpretations do not constitute a denial of Scripture). You are right, though. I do not have patience with people who are unable to grasp that people may disagree with their conclusions while not denying Scripture. Part of this is they denounce the majority of...

Yet you have proved incapable of providing even one verse I (or others who reject your theory) reject. I have told you that I agree with the "classic view" of the Atonement to include the reason Christ had to die. I am amazed that you made it through seminary (I take it you "attended" online)...

No. You have given us verses and said they mean all of that. You are not God, David. You need to explain how you get from Scripture to your interpretation just like anyone else. The thing is you really do not know. I have told you why I believe those verses mean what I believe them to mean...

It looks like the OP is effectively disproven. We all believe our views are correct (which is why we hold them). But Penal Substitution Theory remains just one theory among several as evidenced not only by those here who affirm the same passages without affirming the Theory but those throughout...

Are you blind to the fact that Scripture uses both to illustrate the same spiritual condition? Nowhere does Scripture say that even one person has died spiritually. Nowhere does Scripture say Adam died spiritually. Nowhere does Scripture say that God punished Jesus. Nowhere does Scripture...

Except I do not think "wrath" can be cast anywhere. I believe all judgment has been given to the Son.

It is debatable whether Origen thought that as well. The reason it is questioned is that not all ransom theories believe God paid a price to any entity. The idea is that our redemption was at great cost. Peter puts it this way - we were purchased by the precious blood of Christ (Paul says we...

I believe the Cross was a reconciliation of mankind to God. Man is no longer enslaved to the power of sin and death (I believe this to be a victory over Satan) . This brings up another issue. Death as a consequence of sin (the wages of sin) is viewed by Penal Substitution theorists to have...

That goes to the heart of the issue. Christ had to suffer and die to redeem mankind from the power of sin and death that had held mankind captive.

I agree it is a possibility but I think it refers to the Lamb (and by implication the book). I believe it shows us redemptive history as a whole.

I think we are saying the same thing. You say spiritual life is a relationship with God and I say it is being in Christ and Christ in us. The next question I suppose would be defining the relationship. I believe it is more than fellowship. Literally I believe this refers to being in Christ...

I do not believe we are born having sinned, but corrupt in the sense of being corruptible flesh. Like Adam we will sin.

I do not mind cow tipping. I believe the issue is limiting God to a time-line.

Why would Christ be the Lamb slain prior to the transgression? My answer has already been said. I believe Adam was created flesh, which falls short of the mark of divine righteousness.

What verse are you referencing? (I was referencing John 14:6 in concluding Christ is the Life).

I believe they were physically alive but spiritually dead. I believe "eternal life" refers to spiritual life. If a man is blind that does not mean he went blind (he may have never had the gift of sight).