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  1. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I'm afraid I don't have the time to answer all of your reply, I'm sorry, so I'll just touch on a few things. I think this is where we start to see the separation in how Amil's and Dispensationalists see the OT! You see Ez 40 as a literal temple that must be rebuilt in a millennial period...
  2. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I'm saying that Eph 1:11-14 is addressed to anyone in Christ, regardless of their background. I know Dispensationalist think we Amil's hold to what you call 'replacement' theology. That basically, we're saying that the Church has now become Israel, and as such the 'old' Israel, has no more to...
  3. Naomi25

    No scripture contradicts rapture teaching

    You know, I've heard some corkers over the years, and well...this isn't really the worst, as far as it goes, I suppose. But Heb 13:8...the twistiness that you have to do to make your numbers 'crunch', and the seemingly random bits you pluck from scripture to back up your theories. Well. I think...
  4. Naomi25

    Advice Needed on 2 Corinthians 12

    Thank you, this post lifted and encouraged me. :)
  5. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    True. It is possible that there could come a time when heaven rolls back the veil between the seen and unseen worlds and we behold what is going on behind that curtain. But it is just as possible that Revelation is only describing for us that reality, is it not? That would not make it any less...
  6. Naomi25

    Advice Needed on 2 Corinthians 12

    Hi guys, thanks for the answers. I more or less agree, but confirmation is always nice. And I suppose there is always a small level of confusion from what others tell you. Sometimes you struggle to know what is true or not. Sometimes you struggle between what you wish and what you know. I wish...
  7. Naomi25

    9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

    Okay. So, I finally had some time, and did a bit of reading on the Jewish feasts. Which I found very interesting and leaned some thing I hadn't before, so thank you for prodding me in that direction. However, that being said, it simply does NOT change the fact that you are date setting. You...
  8. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I agree Wormwood. But I think it goes even a step further. In fixing upon Israel so strongly and what they see as the division between the Jew and Gentile, they miss the great, big, startling, point. Jesus. It was never about Jew or Gentile. It was never about a tiny little dot of land...that's...
  9. Naomi25

    Advice Needed on 2 Corinthians 12

    Hi guys, am hoping someone might be able to offer some advice on 2 Corinthians 12:9-10 But he said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” Therefore I will boast all the more gladly of my weaknesses, so that the power of Christ may rest upon me. 10 For...
  10. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Isn't it interesting! Everyone reads without bias! Honestly...no one can read the bible without bias. We all like to think we do, but we don't. And I think those who claim to, are those who are only more confused than the rest of us. Everyone has presuppositions. Amil people come with covenant...
  11. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Oh...I know they're out there. That's why I like to clarify. I wanted to know for sure what Glen was saying before I made any kind of call. I do find it interesting that this board would allow someone who denies the bodily return of Jesus to stay here. There appears to be enough discord amongst...
  12. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Hi Stranger! I'm sorry if my reply confused you, in honesty, I did make some jumps that perhaps I shouldn't have. I was assuming that our conversation was following on from some previous conversations with others above. And also, I wasn't pointing to "you" so much, as "Pre-tribbers". This can...
  13. Naomi25

    9/23/17, Rev 12:5, X etc..

    All right. I'm still not sure this is going to lead anywhere, but... I vaguely see what you're saying with the feasts. You've linked them to specific events...which seem to link up rationally, but I cannot see any biblical proof behind your idea. But even having said that, you've gone beyond...
  14. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Well, Wormwood answered this post so well, I'm not sure I need to. But, since it was addressed to me, I suppose I shall anyway! I suppose I'm wondering, if you claim your interpretation doesn't ignore metaphors etc, then why do you have such a hard time seeing Revelation as a book full of...
  15. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Yeah, see, that puts you so far outside the bounds of orthodoxy, that I don't actually consider you and I are of the same faith (that being based on scripture). So...thanks for the conversation, but I suspect we won't agree over anything.
  16. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    Hi 101G, thanks for your reply, I found it most interesting. I have heard before that people thought that Jesus "coming in spirit and power" could be seen perhaps in the Transfiguration, or perhaps in the judgement against Jerusalem in 70AD, but I've never heard it said to be at Pentecost...
  17. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I'm sorry, but that explanation just doesn't hold water. Even back then, John would have had some sort of knowledge of rudimentary Roman siege machine. He would have been able to identify it as some sort of foreign machine. He could have labeled it as a confusing, indescribable machine, before...
  18. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I'm afraid I see no real evidence that Matthew 13 speaks of what you say it does. Yes it talks of the Kingdom of heaven. Yes I can see that perhaps the mustard tree speaks of the Church. But more likely it speaks of what it says it speaks of: the Kingdom of Heaven, of which the Church is a part...
  19. Naomi25

    I'd like to have a calm, rational conversation about End Times...anyone?

    I'm not discussing what we already have in Christ. I asked you if you believe in Christ's physical return. Care to answer the actual question? Thanks.