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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    Of course it is. That is clearly what the word consummation In Daniel 9:27 equals per that context. Only someone doctrinally biased would disagree.
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    And look how that is working out over all. Which you already briefly pointed out. For example, 5 ppl coming to 5 entirely different conclusions concerning particular passages at hand. And each one of them applying 1 John 2:27 as the reason why their conclusions are the correct conclusions...
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    That is only true if Micah 4:3 belongs to the here and now. And if it does belong with the here and now it would be absurd in that case to not seek a spiritual interpretation instead. Therefore, I fully agree. Obviously, no one thinks Micah 4:3 can be fulfilled in a literal sense in this age...
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    IMO, your point is moot. And here is why. Let's assume there is no millennium that follows the 2nd coming. Are we to then assume Scriptures will never be opened again and that Jesus nor anyone will ever teach from the Bible again? That nothing ever gets settled one way or the other in regard to...
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    My view is that the last days began with Christ's first coming about 2,000 years ago, and that the last day of the last days is the millennium. Therefore, I believe some aspects of Micah 4 are applicable now, while other aspects await their fulfillment during the millennial reign. Before...
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    In my view, it is during the 6th seal, for example, when the 7th trumpet sounds and the wrath of God, the DOTL begins. Therefore, in my view the 7th seal is simply setting the stage for the first 6 seals and the 7 trumpets. Otherwise, how does one logically go from the 7th seal to that of the...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    A speed Limit sign is clearly posted on a Freeway. A driver on the Freeway clearly sees the warning. But then thinks to himself..hmm..I don't see any cops around anywhere, so I think I will just go whatever speed I want to. On the surface I can see the logic in this yet I disagree that it's a...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    Why does it have to be arrogant when it can simply be something insightful others might have missed? If you said something insightful others might have missed, I seriously doubt I would be pulling the arrogant card out on you. You act as if everything there is to know about Scripture, it is...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    I can see the logic in this yet I disagree. Verse 1 already establishes that the final days of the age are in view. THe DOTL referenced in verse 1 is not relevant to the first advent. The NT never associates the DOTL with that of the first advent. Therefore, verse 2 must be understood as great...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    Here is something interesting that I noticed just today, where pretty much everyone appears to be overlooking. Amils of course won't find it interesting since most of them in this thread insist the 1st advent and the 2000 years that follow is what is in view throughout Zechariah 14. And not the...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    My [point is, there is only one DOTL post Christ's birth, and that it hasn't arrived yet, in any sense. The NT knows zero about a DOTL that already began 2000 years ago and is still in progress. And since Zechariah 14 also involves the DOTL, and is also meaning post Christ's birth, that should...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    Amos 5:18 Woe unto you that desire the day of the LORD! to what end is it for you? the day of the LORD is darkness, and not light. But you want to pretend the day of Lord is something blessed . Wonder why this verse disagrees? Who should I believe? You or this verse? The verse clearly and...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    Let me see if I understood you. When you said Premils need 2 comings in the OT--you basically meant something like this. Let's use Zechariah 14 as an example then. In your mind Premils need to have Zechariah 14 involving the 2nd coming rather than the first coming, in order to make it appear...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    I don't care since it is the truth in this case. You are clearly not reading my posts correctly and are having me saying and meaning things I did not say nor mean. Why should I find that acceptable that someone can just say whatever they want to say about what I posted, that I said this and that...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    The problem is that you don't have good reading comprehension at times. You need to work on that. That's not my position. My position is that the beast, not satan, is the one cast into the pit before the time of great tribulation. Otherwise, how does it ascend from the pit to begin with in...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    Why can't you simply accept that some Old Testament prophecies imply two comings, even though they never explicitly label them as such? Zechariah 14 is one example where a 2nd coming is implied without it having to call it a 2nd coming. We can know a 2nd coming is implied by comparing with the...
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    Who is Paul discussing in 2 Thessalonians 2?

    But notice what happens when you reason things in this absurd manner. Revelation 8:1 ¶And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour. Thus is parallel with the 7th trumpet and 7th vial per what you said. You clearly and undeniably said...
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    Both Pretribbers and Preterists are clearly wrong that great tribulation begins with the DOTL.

    IOW, and in the middle of this literal 7 day period, and if Sunday is the first day of the week, and Saturday is the last day of the week, it is then on a Wednesday, thus the middle of a literal 7 day week, he proclaims to be Meshiach/Messiah God to the Jews, and Jesus returned to the apostate...
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    Actually Jesus returns twice...

    You say Revelation 19 doesn't describe Jesus coming to the earth and that the sword from His mouth is symbolic of judgment through His word. If that's your view, what do you make of 2 Thessalonians 2:8? And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his...
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    The Conundrum of Zechariah Ch. 14

    1 Corinthians 15:51 ¶Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, 52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For this corruptible must...