Search results

Without the meriting, it wouldn't have been given, so, no, it isn't given freely, it is rewarded upon fulfillment of a condition. The two are not the same.

If you say "I'll give this to you freely", that differs from "If you do something for me, you'll get this, but if you don't I won't give it to you." One is a gift, the other is conditioned on earning/meriting. I think you're missing my point, but OK.

I understand that is the view you hold to. I am not sure I would for the reason I shared. Your view is the basic Catholic view. I really don't understand the matter. I didn't mean "I think free will exists". but that "it seems God wants us to freely choose to do things that please God--NOT...

I don't know if I agree with this distinction (because in either case your getting the reward depends on your actions), but I'm glad you mentioned "free will", because I believe this was a key thing God has told me in past times.

The devil prayed to God (as in Job) to ask Him if he could tempt the Lord, and God granted him his request to tempt the Lord.

To speak of an unbeliever as if they had a measure of faith would be like referring to a "married bachelor"--by dint of their constituent qualities, these things cannot be.

"Measure of faith" is something a believer has; if an unbeliever had a "measure of faith", they, ipso facto, would not qualify as an unbeliever.

Also I wouldn't think all men have a measure of faith. That verse refers to believers. Unbelievers don't have a measure of faith, or they would be pleasing to God (Heb 11), but they are not in the Spirit but in the flesh, thus not able to submit to God's Law and incapable of pleasing God (Ro 8).

Yes, the majority of believers I've interacted with have employed various ways of "understanding" Ro 2 that result in denying what is obviously being taught. I think that's their way of solving the same problem I'm having--but I'm not going to do that.

1. Yeah, but that doesn't solve my dilemma LOL 2. It is obvious from the text, so I didn't need anyone to teach me; that said, N.T. Wright, a well-known teacher, teaches, far and wide, that, indeed, these are believing Gentiles.

Yes, they are believing Gentiles--in other words, because they are living right by the power of the Spirit of Grace (Ro 6:14) they will be repaid eternal life, and, yet, Paul is warning the Jewish believers in the Roman Church that they are storing up wrath for themselves because of their...

It really is a mistake to think knowing God can be earned, though I'm not 100% certain how that "squares" with Romans 2, which says only "doers of the Law" will be justified and repaid eternal life when God judges the secrets of men's hearts by Christ (Ro 2:6-16,26,27). I can't deny that...

For the time being, actually, I'm "over" the question. Thanks.

The confusing thing was He was with me the whole time, but, later, said I was wrong. Peter was shown the vision, and was corrected by that vision, though God had been with him the whole time. The Bible does talk about being "constrained" by "the love of Christ".

I'll take it!

Yeah we're all unworthy but the difference between salvation and damnation is some admit they're unworthy and receive God's love as a gift, whereas the damned continue trying to prove the lie that they're good and they're worthy and so they cannot receive the gift that is so good it is...

I don't know how to explain it Scripturally yet, but I had an experience yesterday, and I'm certain we are utterly unworthy of God's goodness, so it has to be a gift. It's too good. We can't deserve to know God. He's too good. We are nothing. "When I atone for all your sins, you will be ashamed...

The flip side of this is the good news that, because we could never be worthy, it is a gift--and will not be given, cannot be received, except on the terms that it is given and received as a gift (undeserved).

IDK I think I already tried that. Apparently, it's truly meaningful what someone is thinking and intending when they are working. We are completely unworthy and nothing we do can ever make us worthy.

Sin will not be our master (enslave us) BECAUSE we are under Grace (Ro 6:14)--grace is the new way to serve Him, and results in fulfilling the Law (Ro 2:6-16, 26, 27, 3:31, 8:4).