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No matter how much evidence I provide you, you will not receive it because you seem to have a predisposition against accepting ti. Let me try one more time to provide biblical evidence that those who have died and their bodies are in graves are alive. 'And do not fear those who kill the body...

No, I sought to demonstrate my position from Scripture. Mine is not a personally invented interpretation, but based on the exegesis of Scripture.

What is that meant to convey to me, especially when I've shown you in context that your view of 2 Cor 5:8 is not taught in Scripture? Your comment reads awfully like conveying avoidance. Let's agree to disagree. However, I'm already with the Lord. He's my Lord and Saviour. Leaving me to the...

ATP, There is not a word in the context of 2 Cor 5:8 (ESV) that gives that meaning. That context in 2 Cor 5:6, 8 (ESV) is that 'while we are at home in the body we are away from the Lord ... and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord'. There is not a word in this...

This statement is contrary to the evidence. What is meant by “sleep” at death? The Bible sometimes describes the state of death as “sleep” or “falling asleep” in verses such as Matt. 9:24; 27:52; John 11:11; Acts 7:60; 13:36; 1 Cor. 15:6, 18, 20, 51; 1 Thess 4:13; 5:10. Let’s take 3 samples...

I addressed Paul's words in 1 Cor 15 in my PhD dissertation and it was passed by my 3 examiners (dissertation-only in the British system). What I exegeted there is NOT contrary to 2 Cor 5:8. You seem to be creating a straw man fallacy. Here you claim that my position is contrary to Paul's words...

It just so happens that what Kistemaker wrote as a Greek exegete is correct. The human being (not the body) lives on at death as 2 Cor 5:8 (ESV) asserts. My position on what happens to unbelievers at death is articulated in my article, Do evil doers experience eternal destruction or...

Butch, Greek exegete, Simon J. Kistemaker (professor of NT emeritus), disagrees with you in your understanding of 2 Cor 5:8 (ESV) - and so do I: Oz

dad, I agree. I do not think that any particular view on when Jesus will return should divide us as Christians. The core eschatological value is that Jesus is returning. Some would add that there will be a resurrection of the righteous and unrighteous to appear at the final judgment. I do not...

I'm not a supporter of the pre-tribulation rapture, but there does seem to be some support in the early church (way before the era of J N Darby - 1800-1882 - and his pre-trib promotion). Here are a couple of examples: In the Shepherd of Hermas (dated ca. 100-160), it is stated: 'You have...

rjp, When you make a provocative statement like this, the people who read your post on this forum deserve the courtesy of your quoting from J N Darby's writings to demonstrate that he consorted with witches. I'm not a fan of J N Darby's writings, but I'm never going to believe this assertion...

'Yes, we are of good courage, and we would rather be away from the body and at home with the Lord' (2 Cor 5:8 ESV). I, with Paul, at death will be 'away from the body' - my body will be rotting in the grave and I (the unseen part of ME) will be 'at home with the Lord'. That's what happens to...

I'm withdrawing from this discussion because: 1. It's going nowhere, and 2. It's right off topic. Sincerely in Christ, Oz

That is not the meaning of horao as I've explained in #573.

The problem with your using Strong's Concordance for Greek meanings is that it is too broad in its understanding. It is not a specialist Greek lexicon as Arndt & Gingrich (A&G) is. The A&G definition of horao for John 1:18 is: 'see, catch sight of, notice of sense perception.... (on seeing God...

This is a false understanding. We know that Moses asked for this according to Exodus 33:18 (ESV), 'Please show me your glory'. What was God's reply? 'You cannot see my face, for man shall not see me and live' (Ex 33:20 ESV). So, nobody can see the full glory of God. God denied this to Moses...

But you were not exposed to the essence of God, his full glory, because 'no one has ever seen God' (John 1:18 ESV). See my explanation in #564.

In Walter Kaiser Jr's commentary on Exodus 24:9-10, he wrote: In Scripture, we will meet passages that speak of God being 'seen' by people such as Abraham, Moses, one of the prophets, or others. We are to understand this as these people seeing either a theophany (a visible manifestation of...

Seems as though you also are not understanding a theophany with use of anthropomorphic language. We cannot have the contradiction from the God of truth that 'no one has ever seen God' (John 1:18 ESV) and 'they saw the God of Israel' (Ex 24:10 ESV). I've already explained this latter verse above...