“Welcome Holy Spirit”
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Not a correct translation.
The message in Ephesians 5:18 is addressing one of the works of the flesh which is drunkenness which is to be avoided, and by avoiding that you remain filled with all the fruits of the Spirit like temperance which is self control.
I think it is myself. What do you think is the correct translation, and why?
Much love!
Brother, it would not hurt to make sure nobody in your assembly believes in a supernatural infilling of the Holy Spirit that tales place apart from salvation. My former church talked like that in referring to the filling of the Spirit in principle rather than supernaturally, but they are laying the groundwork for the supernatural to happen as the devil is like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour.
When believers start believing they can receive a supernatural infilling of the Holy Spirit apart from salvation God will permit that strong delusion for believing that lie.
There is no more filling of the Spirit; not even in principle when we are always Spirit-filled since salvation so why say something that is not true?
Ephesians 5:18 And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit;
If only the latter half of that verse was written then I would have a hard time saying otherwise, but the latter half of that verse was written for opposing the first half of that verse which is not to be drunk with wine, thus remaining sober as filled with the Spirit rather than sowing to the works of the flesh which is drunkenness. It is just a verse telling believers to remain sober as remain filled with all the fruits of the Spirit.
What can't you understand - one was Spirit filled and Spirit led the other wasn't. Not all clergy are you know.
When we are Saved it is because through the leading of the Holy Spirit we have accepted Christ as our Saviour and he then lives within us supernaturally and guides us and teaches us. But one can be a member of a church without having had that meeting with Jesus which awaken us and causes spiritual renewal.
You refer to the other as traditional as the one that replaced the Spirit-filled pastor. You did not say he was teaching error as if not led by the Spirit.
So what am I to think? You do not give any examples to prove how he was not led by the Spirit and certainly for a church that had a pastor that was Spirit-filled, what does that say about His work when the church chosen the replacement for the way that they had done? No longer Spirit-filled? Or do you judge them as never Spirit-filled in the first place since you could say they were not led by the Spirit to make that choice?
You have to give examples of that former Spirit-filled pastor to the one that had replaced him that you seem to judge as not Spirit-filled or led by the Spirit. Nobody reading your posts can know what you mean or how you had judged between the two when they or we do not know them to see how you had judged between the two Biblically so we can too of others Biblically, but I'd still say you are not judging Biblically because you have not been.
Spiritual renewal? So they had a meeting with Jesus by coming to Him to believe in Him and got born again of the Spirit & thus saved, but because they did not have that second meeting with Jesus, supernaturally, they ae not led by the Spirit any more? Scripture warns against any such second supernatural meeting with Jesus when such visitations fails the apostle John's testing of the spirits in 1 John 4:1-6 & goes against the warning set forth by Paul about any one preaching another Jesus or another spirit as if we had not received Him since the beginning 2 Corinthians 11:1-4 & Colossians 2:5-10.
So clarity is needed here because it sure sounds like apostasy to me by promoting another meeting with Jesus 1 Timothy 4:1-2 when He has been in us and with us always since salvation. Ephesians 4:30 & 1 Corinthians 6:19-20 & 2 Corinthians 13:5 & Matthew 28:20 And so no more filling of the Spirit so we all can speak the same thing and hold to the same judgment; 1 Corinthians 1:9-10 & 1 Corinthians 12:13 & Ephesians 4:4-6 & Matthew 9:17 & John 6:35
I do thank you for sharing and I apologize for coming off strong, but I do hope He is helping me to minister in that spirit of meekness and patience by asking you to please provide the link to that source that translated Ephesians 5:18 like that, and if it is off of your computer, then please provide also their translation of 1 Corinthians 1:18 with Ephesians 5:18 is you would please.
I am wondering if outside influence like that errant mindset that "we are not saved yet but in the process of being saved" is how they were translating those verses.
Thanks in advance.
In Christ's love, Christ4Me
i don't 'have' to do anything of the sort. There is a vast difference between a man led by the Spirit and one who isn't. Anybody who understand how the spirit works will understand what I have written.
The Anglican church membership is a mix of born again believers and traditionalists who feel they don't need 'all that Spirit stuff'. The church committee - called the Parochial Church Council - is responsible for making decisions, including appointing new clergy. It is an archaic way of running things because those with the loudest voices get heard even if they are not Spirit led. I used to belong to an Anglican church with a mix of members as I have described, the vicar had to find a way of ministering to all of his flock without upsetting the apple cart. He asked people he knew to be spirit filled to stand for election to the PCC in order to better overcome the traditionalist stance of some members. I was approached along with others and duly served served as a member of the PPC which then had a majority of spirit led members so that Spirit led decisions could be made - everything in the anglican church has to be approved by the PCC.
So It's obvious that in the church I was telling you about the PCC membership was predominately traditional in outlook. I does not at all reflect on the out-going vicar.
Matthew 3:16 “ As soon as Jesus was baptized, he went up out of the water. At that moment heaven was opened, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and lighting on him.”
Matthew 4:1 “Then Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert to be tempted by the devil.”
Luke 4:1-2 says, “Jesus, full of the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit in the desert, where for forty days he was tempted by the devil.”
Luke 4:14 says, “Jesus returned to Galilee in the power of the Spirit, and news about him spread through the whole countryside.”
I think that this is a crucial ‘key’ for living our Christian lives effectively. I know I have been filled by the Holy Spirit, probably more than once, and I know that I have been led by the Holy Spirit occasionally, but I can’t say that I very often truly walked in the power of the Spirit with authority. Although since I was born again Jesus live in me through his Spirit.
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Since, as you say there are vast difference between the two, we do not know what differences you had seen out of those vast differences between the two. When someone is in error, we correct by the scripture. We do not quote "thou shalt not commit adultery" when the believer is caught stealing.
It would be wise to inform others how you made that determination between the two Biblically.
Please provide examples of "all that Spirit stuff"?
Why was it the loudest against "all that Spirit stuff"? What was their main complaint that you seem to think had swayed the council?
Not sure how the majority of members in the PCC that were Spirit led under the vicar lost its members to more of the traditionalists. How did that happened?
Well, I thank you for giving more details but it is still unclear as to how Spirit-filled/Spirit led members are different from traditionalists, Biblically.
Here is Paul prophesying about the falling away from the faith was to happen first before the Bridegroom comes and then the great tribulation afterwards.
2 Thessalonians 2:1Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, 2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. 3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Paul said this iniquity that causes the falling away from the faith in the latter days was happening even in his days.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Then he describes what is happening supernaturally that this iniquity causes this falling away from the faith.
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, 10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12 That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
Then he refers to this tradition as he has taught them as reproof of that lie in exposing that iniquity for what it is; that these wayward believers actually believed the lie that they can receive the Holy Spirit again apart from salvation by a sign.
13 But we are bound to give thanks alway to God for you, brethren beloved of the Lord, because God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel, to the obtaining of the glory of our Lord Jesus Christ. 15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.
Now you know that the churches back then were Spirit-filled/Spirit led & yet Paul points out traditions that exposes the supernatural as not of Him.
Hopefully you can see why I cannot see the difference between the two that you say as Spirit-filled/Spirit led & traditionalists when one of the tradition taught by Paul was to the difference between the real indwelling holy Spirit as always within since salvation as opposed to visitations of spirts that brings signs & lying wonders that would tempt believers to move away from their rest in Jesus Christ to chasing after seducing spirits.
That is why clarity is needed. Hopefully, I believe I have shown just cause for why an explanation between the two is warranted now.
Thank you for your time and patience.
Descending on Jesus is not the same as filling Him. This was the Spirit's added witness to the Father's verbal witness from Heaven that Jesus is His Son and thus God in sending Him in fulfillment of the prophesy of the Lord God & His Spirit sending the Lord Our Redeemer.
Isaiah 48:16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord God, and his Spirit, hath sent me. 17 Thus saith the Lord, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am the Lord thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.
One may wonder if Jesus was crazy for going into the desert to purposefully be tempted by the devil, but when led by the Spirit....
This testify that He was not partially filed with the holy Spirit when He went into the desert but led by the Spirit to do that.
This testifies how He had returned thus not by His flesh. That whole ordeal was done in the power of the Spirit so this does testify to how believers are always Spirit-filled and we can face any tribulation or fiery trials in the power of the Holy Spirit.
"Probably?" So you are not referring to a notable supernatural phenomenon of feeling a spirit coming over you & filling you then? Just in principle? Or are you referring to that phenomenon but just lost count how many times that had happened?
I believe the Holy Spirit has been in you since salvation, but if we believe we can receive Him again apart from salvation, then God will permit that strong delusion to occur for believing that lie when He has been in us since salvation for why we are always Spirit-filled as a testimony from God that we are saved.
If wayward believers do go astray like that, they can call on Jesus Christ for help to return to their first love and seek no more supernatural filling of the Holy Spirit for we are a new creature able to hold the Holy Spirit as sealed ( Matthew 9:17 ) to never seek to be filled again ( John 6:35 )
Oh dear you seem to be very belligerent in your posts. They are much too long and I can't follow them. I don't know how you can't understand the difference between Spirit fill and led and not spirit filled or led. Perhaps you are just being awkward. Calm down and take a deep breath and re-read your posts.
Mark uses a word here that means "throwing out", the Spirit cast out Jesus into the wilderness.
The KJV puts it this way:
Mark 1:12 KJV
And immediately the Spirit driveth him into the wilderness.
I'm wondering about the parsing between "Spirit filled", "Spirit led", now we have "Spirit driven", isn't the reality that there are a number of ways that God uses in speaking of how the Holy Spirit interacts with us, and how He impacts our lives, and maybe we shouldn't try to put Him in too much a of box, and instead focus on seeking His working in our lives?
Much love!
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I believe our salvation is being united to God's Holy Spirit, and this unity imparts to us life and righteousness and power to live godly lives. I believe that sometimes God does "little extras" for us. In the Bible, things like, they were filled with the Spirit and spoke the Word with boldness. There was a filling of the Spirit that had a purpose. When God has a special purpose for us in mind, and gives us a special empowerment from the Spirit to perform it, this I call being filled with the Spirit. Or when God has in mind to turn our discouragment into joy, or our inner pain into strength, and sometimes does it in a moment, I call this being filled with the Spirit.
Peter, filled with the Spirit, preached. We are to "pray in the spirit", and "pray with understanding". Two different acts, both by the spiritual man, who is indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
I absolutely do not believe that God will hand His children over to condemnation in delusion.
Much love!
