And this applies to you?
Of course, you've never met me, or gotten to know me, really.
So this seems like another of those meaningless overgeneralizations.
Much love!
“Welcome Holy Spirit”
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Of course, you've never met me, or gotten to know me, really.
So this seems like another of those meaningless overgeneralizations.
Much love!
Hopefully you are understanding what I'm saying as that the Holy Spirit lives forever in those who are God's children, and while this remains true, there is still a "filling" of the Spirit spoken of in the Bible, which is something different, and is occassioned, and for a purpose. Now, I realize you don't agree with this, but are you understanding this is what I'm saying?
Much love!
The Book of Acts refers to one filled with the Spirit to testify how His disciples were speaking and doing those things in the early church and not by their will power or even a reasonable course of action.
To infer that there is a continual filling of the Spirit for them to be able to speak and do those things is against the scripture in the N.T. as written to the churches. Filled is past tense to infer how they were doing those things; not they took time out and sought to be filled with the Spirit before they spoke or did any of those things.
Well in this, you are understanding where I am coming from which is in defense of the faith in Jesus Christ for why we are in disagreement.
Do you believe slain in the spirit is of God?
Do you believe the holy laughter movement is of God?
Do you believe the Pensacola Outpouring is of God?
Do you believe the Toronto's Blessings is of God?
Do you believe there is another baptism with the Holy Ghost with evidence of tongues which is for private use?
They do not always seek those things, but when it happens, they can refer to that as being filled with the "spirit" supernaturally which in turns seduce the church to take time away from the Son to chasing after them to receive after a sign.
The holy laughter movement broke out across the denomination in 1990's as it was no longer a streamlined Pentecostal/Charismatic event, but happening in Catholic & Protestant churches. I believe it happened because the focus was on the Holy Spirit when the Holy Spirit in us would have our focus on the Son in worship & prayer & fellowship. This allows the spirit of the antichrist to move in & seduce believers into chasing after them
So if you say there is a continual filling after salvation, then it goes against scripture; 2 Corinthians 11:3-4 & Colossians 2:5-10 & Matthew 9:17
And even if you do not believe those supernatural events are not of the Lord, you talk like them and believe that there can be extra filling for why if it happens to you, you would not doubt it. When any one's focus is on the Holy Spirit and this apostasy comes and so it must be the Holy Spirit.
A brother in India testified that he did not believe the holy Spirit manifested as He did in the early church days and that calendar's Pentecostal Sunday, they honored the Holy Spirit in worship. Next he testified what felt like liquid nitrogen seeping through his skull and he began confessing against his will an apology to the Holy Spirit for not believing He would manifest like He did in the early church days.
As if there were any testimony of feeling liquid nitrogen seeping into someone's skull or confessing against his will an apology to the Holy Spirit.
Sometimes it is the company you keep or that kind of church you attend.
A neighbor across the street was reading her Bible one day at the kitchen table when she felt the Holy Spirit come over her and she began to speak in tongues. She announced that was when she was saved because she had received the holy spirit & tongues all at once. So I had asked her what she was reading that led her to believe in Jesus Christ. Then she did not know what I had meant and then it don on her as she went on to explain that she went to her pastor at Lakeside and had asked him what had happened because she was a believer for most of her life, and he smiled and pointed to Acts. She did not say where in Acts and so I am assuming Acts 2 when the disciples were doing every day things on Pentecost. Anyway she went on to share that others had testified of similar experiences when they were doing everyday things but she rolled her eyes at that and did not care to share why.
Although she does not believe that false teaching that if you do not speak in tongues, you do not have the holy spirit, and therefore you are not saved, she would have a hard time keeping those people from using her testimony because she had been a believer for most of her life but she changed her testimony as to when she was saved to that moment in the kitchen.
Joyce Meyers had a similar experience but assumed that was a sign from God calling her into the ministry, yet tongues are not to serve as a sign or proof of anything to the believer. 1 Corinthians 14:22
Believers do not know what that phenomenon is but because they want to believe it is of God is why they do not test the spirits at all.
Sad to say, by your words and assumptions in the Bible, you are laying the groundwork for you to fall prey to any supernatural phenomenon to occur and so I can only pray that the Lord will keep you from falling and from serving something else in His name.
Keep your eyes on Jesus because that is Whom the indwelling Holy Spirit is pointing you to go to in relating to God the Father through the Bridegroom whereas the spirits of the antichrist would take your eyes off of the Son by their visitations in chasing after them for a sign thus committing spiritual fornication. Luke 13:24-30
I understand that for why wisdom is needed because the Greek word pneuma for spirit, isn't always referring to the Person of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 2:4 LITV
4) And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.
Acts 4:8 LITV
8) Then being filled of the Holy Spirit, Peter said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel,
Acts 4:31 LITV
31) And they having prayed, the place in which they were gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God with boldness.
Acts 9:17 LITV
17) And Ananias went away and entered into the house. And putting hands on him he said, Brother Saul, the Lord has sent me, Jesus, the One who appeared to you in the highway on which you came, that you may see and be filled of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 13:9 LITV
9) But Saul, who is also Paul, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and looking intently on him,
Acts 13:52 LITV
52) And the disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18 LITV
18) And "do not be drunk with wine," in which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit, Prov. 23:31
Much love!
4) And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.
Acts 4:8 LITV
8) Then being filled of the Holy Spirit, Peter said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel,
Acts 4:31 LITV
31) And they having prayed, the place in which they were gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God with boldness.
Acts 9:17 LITV
17) And Ananias went away and entered into the house. And putting hands on him he said, Brother Saul, the Lord has sent me, Jesus, the One who appeared to you in the highway on which you came, that you may see and be filled of the Holy Spirit.
Acts 13:9 LITV
9) But Saul, who is also Paul, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and looking intently on him,
Acts 13:52 LITV
52) And the disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit.
Ephesians 5:18 LITV
18) And "do not be drunk with wine," in which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit, Prov. 23:31
Much love!
I don't have any indication at all that you actually understand my POV. You continue to conflate my view with other people's, mischaracterizing mine. If you want to change that let me know. Otherwise this is not productive or edifying.
Much love!
Acts 2:4 LITV
4) And they were all filled of the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in other languages, as the Spirit gave ability to them to speak.
That above was when they had received the Holy Spirit at their born again of the Spirit moment of their salvation. Note the difference between they were all filled of the Holy Spirit to the verse below "Then being filled of the Holy Spirit" was how Peter was speaking, no that he was being flled with the Holy Spirit again.
Acts 4:8 LITV
8) Then being filled of the Holy Spirit, Peter said to them, Rulers of the people and elders of Israel,
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Acts 4:31 LITV
31) And they having prayed, the place in which they were gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God with boldness.
That was when these 5,000 potential believers were actually saved. Think of it as salvation interrupted. At the beginning of Acts 4, Peter & John got arrested leaving behind 5,000 potential believers. When released, they went onto their own company, mainly those 5,000 potential new believers. When they heard what Peter & John had said and were released, these potential new believers prayed that they too would be like Peter & john in speaking the word of God with boldness and then they got saved. We can know that they were new believers because they sold everything they had and laid it at the apostles' feet to distribute evenly among the new community of 5,000 believers.
So I see Acts 2:4 & Acts 4:31 as that salvation moment which is different for Luke telling us how Peter was speaking as filled with the Holy Ghost rather than it was Peter himself speaking.
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Acts 9:17 LITV
17) And Ananias went away and entered into the house. And putting hands on him he said, Brother Saul, the Lord has sent me, Jesus, the One who appeared to you in the highway on which you came, that you may see and be filled of the Holy Spirit.
That was when Saul then Paul got saved.
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Acts 13:9 LITV
9) But Saul, who is also Paul, being filled with the Holy Spirit, and looking intently on him,
Acts 13:6-12 event is best explained by how Paul knew to say that as the Holy Spirit was speaking through him in verse 9 at that sorcerer. Paul did not strike him blind; God did.
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Acts 13:52 LITV
52) And the disciples were filled with joy and the Holy Spirit.
After having been kicked out of the area and dusting their feet as a testimony against the Jews in that area, one would think they would be mad but they were not. They were filled with joy. How? By the Holy Ghost in them. They did not have joy by any reasoning nor sanity of man.
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Ephesians 5:18 LITV
18) And "do not be drunk with wine," in which is debauchery, but be filled by the Spirit, Prov. 23:31
Since you do not hear me when I have been explaining that verse to you more than once; let you try to rectify what you sat that verse means with the other scripture that opposes it.
Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
Matthew 9:17 Neither do men put new wine into old bottles: else the bottles break, and the wine runneth out, and the bottles perish: but they put new wine into new bottles, and both are preserved.
If there were a continual filling of the holy Spirit, then we cannot be new wine bottles able to hold the wine thus be seen as a leaky vessel.
John 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
If there were continual filling of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus lied because we would never hunger nor thirst again to be filled after salvation.
So Ephesians 5:18 is not a call for believers to seek to be filled but to be sober as remain filled with the Spirit as opposing getting drunk with wine.
I'll be happy to continue our discussion, but first, I'd like for you to tell me fairly and accurately what it is I think about this.
Much love!
Acts 4:23-33 LITV
23) And being set free, they came to their own and reported to them what the chief priests and elders said.
24) And hearing they with one passion lifted voice to God and said, Master, You are "the God who made the heaven and the earth and the sea, and all things in them," Ex. 20:11
25) who through the mouth of Your servant David said, "Why did the nations rage, and the peoples meditate foolish things?
26) The kings of the earth stood up, and the rulers were assembled on the same day against the Lord, yea, against His Christ." Psa. 2:1, 2
27) For truly both Herod and Pontius Pilate, with the nations and the peoples of Israel, were assembled against Your holy child Jesus, whom You anointed,
28) to do whatever Your hand and Your counsel before-determined to be done.
29) And now, Lord, look upon their threatenings and give to Your slaves to speak Your Word with all boldness,
30) in the extending of Your hand for healing and miraculous signs and wonders to happen through the name of Your holy child Jesus.
31) And they having prayed, the place in which they were gathered was shaken, and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit and spoke the Word of God with boldness.
32) And of the multitude of those who believed, the heart and the soul were one. And no one said any of the possessions to be his own, but all things were common to them.
33) And with great power the apostles gave testimony of the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and great grace was upon them all.
Much love!
Keep reading as they were a new community of saved believers.
Acts 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold, 35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need. 36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus, 37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
If they were already saved, why do that when they would have done it before if they were saved earlier?
As you have said; words have meaning.
Those who testify to a supernatural filling of the holy Spirit have done the same thing you have done by referring to Acts like Acts 4:23-33. They believed this happened on already saved believers and that it happened again to Peter & John when they were praying to preach like Peter & John.
Yet you had said you are not referring to any supernatural phenomenon where already saved believers are being filled with the holy Spirit "again"..
Unless I misunderstood you.
You need to deal with what that verse says, not just find verses which you think contradict it.
I have dealt with the verse, brother. Ephesians 5:18 is just a call to remain sober as remaining filled with all the fruits of the Holy Spirit.
You just breeze past all this as if it meant nothing.
God's people asked Him for boldness to preach. He filled them with the Spirit, and they had boldness to preach.
There is a real simplicity here.
Much love!
The syntax of the word is "be ye being filled". You do not like that syntax, as it disagrees with your point of view. So you've interpretted the passage the way you are presenting, but it does not do justice to the grammar. And this doesn't bother you.
Much love!
A filling means receiving the Holy Spirit again. You either have Him or you do not. There is no half empty or mostly full, we are always Spirit-filled.
Imagine you being a new pastor at a church. The selection committee, the elders and eh deacons and the whole congregation welcomes you but when you are at the pulpit, the elders & deacons are leaving the main assembly in trying to find you to receive you again into the assembly. As some elders and deacons hurry by the pulpit, you do on occasions say that you are right here but even though they acknowledge that, they keep on looking. Then a elder brings an unruly man off the street claiming this was the new pastor and for every one to look at him and greet him in receiving him. The unruly man abuses those who got near him, shaking them violently, doing body slams, and just knocking them on their butts. Then they get up bewildered and declared with praise that they have just been visited by the new pastor.
You are still there in the assembly at the pulpit while these wayward church members are going off into all directions in looking for and sometimes receiving different men that come in on their own volition into the assembly that abuses and robs them while the church all believe this is biblical of receiving the pastor again & again and again.
What is the job of the pastor? The same job as the Holy Spirit in us; pointing us to the Son and never take our eyes off of Him.
It is the spirit of the antichrist and those who are not heeding His words that are speaking of the Holy Spirit & the filling so much. that the real holy Spirit is wondering when you are going to be led by Him to put the focus and the spotlight only on the Son; hence no welcoming the Holy Spirit because He has already been received at our salvation thanks to Father in Jesus Christ's name. Now there is only the Bridegroom.
But many believers talk as you do, are out in the market place seeking to be filled supernaturally when the wise know they are filled with the Spirit as they are complete in Christ for why they are ready to go.
Colossians 2:5 For though I be absent in the flesh, yet am I with you in the spirit, joying and beholding your order, and the stedfastness of your faith in Christ. 6 As ye have therefore received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk ye in him: 7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving. 8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. 10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:
I would have to say when you discern the message at the expense of the first half of the verse, that is not translating the truth in His words at all.
