1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

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How many choose practice over commit in connection with 1 John 1:4 and 9

  • Cannot "practice" sin

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • Cannot "commit sin

    Votes: 5 27.8%

  • Total voters
    18

stunnedbygrace

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Jesus saves not only in forgiving us of our past life of sin, but Jesus saves us in helping us to overcome sin in this life.

Sssshh! Someone doesn’t want us to come out of our exhausted trance and see that and believe that and ask for that! And if we do somehow see, believe and ask for that, he certainly will not let us remain in calm peace and hope as we wait for it. He will go to his oldest and most sure tactics, stopping up our well with dirt and detritus and irritants or that war tactic he used so long ago with pharoah and the bricks. My, my, my, this child got ahold of some sugar, found some energy. Now we will have to find a way to exhaust the child back into his distracted trance!
It’s like Kaa and Mowgli - sssssh….come to me…no dancing around singing happily about the bare necessities.
 

stunnedbygrace

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His kind of love is perfect. Ours needs refinement, trial and error, practice.

Ah…a whole thread could be built on this. I do not think to say this is helpful and yet, I labored in it for so many years, thinking I was getting better, so who am I to say anything?
 
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dev553344

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Ah…a whole thread could be built on this. I do not think to say this is helpful and yet, I labored in it for so many years, thinking I was getting better, so who am I to say anything?
I think those of us who have children may find it easier to love them. But the homeless people and the mentally ill are both grown strangers often are more difficult to love I have found.

And then there is the self righteous people that are arrogant and judgmental. Loving them may require practice ;)
 

Lambano

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What, you won't fight unless you're absolutely certain you're going to win?

Sometimes the fight is what's important, not the result.
I just realized: One side is concerned for those who won't fight because they think they've already won. And one side is concerned for those who quit the fight because they've been told over and over that real boxers don't keep getting knocked down and cut like that.
 

dev553344

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I just realized: One side is concerned for those who won't fight because they think they've already won. And one side is concerned for those who quit the fight because they've been told over and over that real boxers don't keep getting knocked down and cut like that.
I read this verse today from @CadyandZoe's thread and it was really refreshing to hear: Luke 7:36-50 It really highlights how a sinner can be saved thru faith and love.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I think those of us who have children may find it easier to love them. But the homeless people and the mentally ill are both grown strangers often are more difficult to love I have found.

And then there is the self righteous people that are arrogant and judgmental. Loving them may require practice ;)
I mean what you’ve said here in your first paragraph is to say: if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have?
My response to that is, okay, I see my lack. Now can someone tell me how long I must try harder to change my lack? Is the answer that loving them requires years of practice?
 

dev553344

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I mean what you’ve said here in your first paragraph is to say: if you only love those who love you, what reward do you have?
My response to that is, okay, I see my lack. Now can someone tell me how long I must try harder to change my lack? Is the answer that loving them requires years of practice?
We're told to be perfect even as heavenly father is perfect. I know I'm not perfect like him and am still growing. I think I stumbled back a little when I became poor. It's harder to help others when you have so little.
 

stunnedbygrace

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We're told to be perfect even as heavenly father is perfect.
Yes! But what is the way to THAT?! That is the righteousness we hunger for within. We sort of understand treating others at least as well as we treat ourselves, and we can practice and improve in that and we know the scriptures are for training in THAT righteousness. But the verse you quoted goes way beyond that.
 

Wrangler

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That is why I drew a distinction when examining the "10 commandment" churches. Some churches teach to obey the 10 commandments. But do they confess to being sinners. I find that act to be more important in my search for a church.

A good church should be teaching to obey "all" the commandments and helping the less fortunate, all the while confessing their shortcomings and faults. Being humble and not self righteous.
I had a multi-email exchange wit my Pastor about the 10C and how they apply to New Covenant Chrsitians. I put it this way to him. You cannot believe that Jesus died on a cross so we can violate with impunity the 10C, specifically, and God's will, generally. You cannot believe God's will is that we now violate the 10C.

His answer was a bit convoluted for my tastes. However, it comes down to the mechanism of salvation.

Hope this helps.
 
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Grailhunter

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God makes sense! Some don't believe that. God gave us a Bible that would make no sense and we cannot understand it? Is that true? Over the centuries some have used that to produce false beliefs and doctrines....base on the concept that if it makes no sense ...... that proves that it is of God!

As a whole the Bible makes sense.....sometimes you have to understand the time period, culture, languages, and circumstances.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.

Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Is this a list of sins that Yeshua will not forgive?....is this a list of unpardonable sins? In context there is no ifs ands or buts regarding the condemnation of these sins.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1st John 3:9
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The word practice is the key. How many times have I talked about this on this forum. Repeating the same sin over and over or lifestyle sins is the practice that will get you in trouble. Using the Grace card as a license to sin or thinking you can play Christ for a fool will get you in trouble....maybe Hell.

The truth makes sense. We are going to make mistakes.....but Yeshua expects us to learn from our mistakes and repent and make a sincere effort to not repeat the same sins. Christ will judge sincerity.

I always tell people to walk with Christ everyday. Talk to Him everyday. Confess your sins and why you think you sinned and what you intend to do so you will not commit that sin again. Not a quote but....God so love a world full of sinners so much that He gave His only begotten Son.... The plan that Christ went to the cross for was to save sinners and we are sinners before we were saved and sinners after. The qualifying factor for forgiveness is honest intent to not commit the same sin over and over.

In some cases that may take time.....still a matter of honest intent.....it may take time for an alcoholic or addict to kick the habit....but he finally does. Now a person may have a mental condition that destroys their will and they cannot control themselves, but that still does not justify their actions or prevent judgment. Child molesters and rapists, some will tell you that they cannot stop.

Hard choices.....sometimes the right thing to do is to lead them to Christ for forgiveness and execute them so they do not continue to sin and harm people. Save their lives or save their soul? Sometimes the hard line is more caring and more merciful for them and their potential victims. And sometimes this happens in the prison system.

Will Christ consider extenuating circumstances like mental conditions....I believe so.....but that does not mean justice should not be served in this world.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing the word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.
I don't believe any human on earth to be perfect. We all sin everyday. If someone is saying that they are perfect and don't sin, I wouldn't believe it. 1 John 1: 8-10 says We all sin, and those who say they do not sin do not have the truth and are making God out to be a liar. This letter that John was inspired to write he wrote to fellow christians who had been baptized.
 
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MatthewG

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God makes sense! Some don't believe that. God gave us a Bible that would make no sense and we cannot understand it? Is that true? Over the centuries some have used that to produce false beliefs and doctrines....base on the concept that if it makes no sense ...... that proves that it is of God!

As a whole the Bible makes sense.....sometimes you have to understand the time period, culture, languages, and circumstances.

1st Corinthians 6:9-10 “Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor those habitually drunk, nor verbal abusers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God”

Galatians 5:19-21 Now the deeds of the flesh are evident, which are: sexual immorality, impurity, indecent behavior, idolatry, witchcraft, hostilities, strife, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and things like these, of which I forewarn you, just as I have forewarned you, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.


Revelation 21:8
But for the cowardly and unbelieving and abominable and murderers and immoral persons and sorcerers and idolaters and all liars, their part will be in the lake that burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.”

Is this a list of sins that Yeshua will not forgive?....is this a list of unpardonable sins? In context there is no ifs ands or buts regarding the condemnation of these sins.

Hebrews 10: 26-31
26 For if we go on sinning willfully after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a terrifying expectation of judgment and the fury of a fire which will consume the adversaries. 28 Anyone who has set aside the Law of Moses dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29 How much severer punishment do you think he will deserve who has trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and has insulted the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay.” And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31 It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

1st John 3:9
No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

The word practice is the key. How many times have I talked about this on this forum. Repeating the same sin over and over or lifestyle sins is the practice that will get you in trouble. Using the Grace card as a license to sin or thinking you can play Christ for a fool will get you in trouble....maybe Hell.

The truth makes sense. We are going to make mistakes.....but Yeshua expects us to learn from our mistakes and repent and make a sincere effort to not repeat the same sins. Christ will judge sincerity.

I always tell people to walk with Christ everyday. Talk to Him everyday. Confess your sins and why you think you sinned and what you intend to do so you will not commit that sin again. Not a quote but....God so love a world full of sinners so much that He gave His only begotten Son.... The plan that Christ went to the cross for was to save sinners and we are sinners before we were saved and sinners after. The qualifying factor for forgiveness is honest intent to not commit the same sin over and over.

In some cases that may take time.....still a matter of honest intent.....it may take time for an alcoholic or addict to kick the habit....but he finally does. Now a person may have a mental condition that destroys their will and they cannot control themselves, but that still does not justify their actions or prevent judgment. Child molesters and rapists, some will tell you that they cannot stop.

Hard choices.....sometimes the right thing to do is to lead them to Christ for forgiveness and execute them so they do not continue to sin and harm people. Save their lives or save their soul? Sometimes the hard line is more caring and more merciful for them and their potential victims. And sometimes this happens in the prison system.

Will Christ consider extenuating circumstances like mental conditions....I believe so.....but that does not mean justice should not be served in this world.
Fair assessment.
 
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Bible Highlighter

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What, you won't fight unless you're absolutely certain you're going to win?

Sometimes the fight is what's important, not the result.
The problem is that you are going off your own thinking here and not what the Bible teaches. God wanted the Israelites to win many battles as a part of fighting. We also have a battle to fight but it is a spiritual one. You believe you must fight despite you will fail the battle when it comes to fighting the battle against sin. That is YOUR thinking that cannot be supported by Scripture. God wants us to win the battle because God does not want us to be a slave to anything (Especially sin). This is clear if you believe your Bible (See again Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, 2 Corinthians 7:1, Romans 13:14).

Jesus indirectly said to the Jews in John 8:34 that they were a slave to sin. Jesus did not tell them this as a compliment but He said this as an insult. This is what you refuse to accept and you have created your own version of the truth despite what the Bible plainly says. Again, you don’t have to give an excuses to me. The hard part for you is your explaining yourself before the LORD come judgment day (If you continue to persist in not believing ALL of God’s Word). Jesus basically said in John 12:48 that if we do not receive His words, those words will judge us on the last day.

In any event, I say all this with love, and with the hope you will relook at the Scriptures again someday and ask the LORD to give you His Spirit to open the true understanding of what His Word plainly says.

Peace, and blessings be unto you in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ.
 

Bible Highlighter

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Sssshh! Someone doesn’t want us to come out of our exhausted trance and see that and believe that and ask for that! And if we do somehow see, believe and ask for that, he certainly will not let us remain in calm peace and hope as we wait for it. He will go to his oldest and most sure tactics, stopping up our well with dirt and detritus and irritants or that war tactic he used so long ago with pharoah and the bricks. My, my, my, this child got ahold of some sugar, found some energy. Now we will have to find a way to exhaust the child back into his distracted trance!
It’s like Kaa and Mowgli - sssssh….come to me…no dancing around singing happily about the bare necessities.
Christians can overcome sin in this life if they “Continue in the Word” (John 8:31). For by doing so, they will know the truth, and the truth will set them free (John 8:32). Christians should not conform to this world. But Christians should be transformed by the renewing of their mind, so that they may prove what is the good, acceptable, and perfect, will of God is (Romans 12:2). This is by conforming to Scripture (2 Timothy 3:16-17).

In other words, believers need to be continually abiding in the Word and renewing their minds with Scripture constantly. God’s Word all on it’s own can change us. We need to put the Word into action every chance we get. We need to keep rehearing the same verses over and over and over again until they are living on the inside of us (So that the devil does not snatch those verses out of our hearts). For if we resist the devil and submit to God, he will flee from us. David basically said he hid God’s Word in his heart so that he may not sin against God (Psalms 119:11).

Faith comes by hearing, and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17).
This is by hearing Scripture and not anything else.
Faith does not come by hearing the wisdom of other people.
God and His Word alone should be our sufficient guide for all matters of the faith and in being faithful (So as to give glory to the LORD Jesus who died for us).
 
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Bible Highlighter

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Oh gag me…
This expression is generally used as a form of disapproval.
I take it you disapprove to what I said with God’s Word.

If that is the case:

Well, I am just a messenger of God’s Word. If you disagree with what God has said we can discuss what His Word actually says.
The verses I posted are clear in what they say, but if you feel they say something different, then we can go over them.
I believe by my reading of the Bible that God is good, and He wants His people to be good, too.

May the Lord’s good ways always shine upon you (Even if we may disagree on God’s Word).
 

Bible Highlighter

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You’ve come closer to a good balance, especially in your second and third paragraphs, than anyone else. The whole point of verses that seem to contradict each other is to fit them together rather than choose only one of them to champion, so that you are not a pancake unturned and only half baked, surrounded by other halfbaked cakes.

Trying to fit together “cannot sin” and “a liar if you say you haven’t sinned” is an exceedingly good, good labor. That you began in discourse with an overall attitude of “perhaps” is pure air.

Consider this in your good labor - two men, both of them sinners, went to pray. One of the two sinners left with God saying he had done what was right in Gods sight. What was the difference in the two sinners? Wasn’t it that one saw himself accurately and was truthful and asked out of his lack?

So you see, both were sinners. But only one of them saw that and was truthful while praying. So it can be seen that honesty goes a long way with God. If a man struggles with sin, as a first step to receiving more grace, he only needs to be truthful with God.

It’s crucial to not drop the thread that both were sinners, exactly alike in that respect, but that only one walked away with Gods approval.

That is a stepping stone, maybe the first stepping stone, to your labor of putting the other two verses together. I could take it further but I don’t want to take away all your fun! It is the pleasure of kings to search out a matter that God has concealed.

I believe a person can admit that they are a sinner when they first come to God’s grace (Which is what we see in Luke 18:9-14).
But after a Christian is saved by God’s grace, they should not remain in their sins or think they are a defeated sinner.
Titus 2:11-12 says that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

While we should be honest with God, by what you had written here, it gives me the impression that you believe no believer can actually overcome sin when in reality the Bible does in fact teach that we can do so (Please see 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Romans 13:14).

Another problem is that God cannot agree with our sin. So if a believer is struggling with sin, then they need God’s help to overcome it. I mean, I get it. Believers are in a purification process in this life (2 Corinthians 7:1) (Romans 8:13). They are not going to always go from zero to hero overnight, but they cannot justify sin, and they cannot treat sin as if it is no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten. Jesus warned against how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife (See: Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62).

Believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).
Believers cannot think they are slaves to sin because Jesus said he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34).
Jesus said a slave (slave to sin) will not abide in the house forever (John 8:35).
Meaning, Matthew 13:41-42 is going to happen. The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS Kingdom them who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire). For Jesus has to set His house in order before He can give it back to God the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24).

Meaning, believers who justify sin are not going to be able to enter the city of New Jerusalem.

Revelation 22:14-15
“Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city. For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.”
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I believe a person can admit that they are a sinner when they first come to God’s grace (Which is what we see in Luke 18:9-14).
But after a Christian is saved by God’s grace, they should not remain in their sins or think they are a defeated sinner.
Titus 2:11-12 says that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

While we should be honest with God, by what you had written here, it gives me the impression that you believe no believer can actually overcome sin when in reality the Bible does in fact teach that we can do so (Please see 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Romans 13:14).

Another problem is that God cannot agree with our sin. So if a believer is struggling with sin, then they need God’s help to overcome it. I mean, I get it. Believers are in a purification process in this life (2 Corinthians 7:1) (Romans 8:13). They are not going to always go from zero to hero overnight, but they cannot justify sin, and they cannot treat sin as if it is no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten. Jesus warned against how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife (See: Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62).
It was your surety that the man you were talking to didn’t have the down payment of the Spirit that I gagged on.
 

stunnedbygrace

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I believe a person can admit that they are a sinner when they first come to God’s grace (Which is what we see in Luke 18:9-14).
But after a Christian is saved by God’s grace, they should not remain in their sins or think they are a defeated sinner.
Titus 2:11-12 says that God’s grace teaches us to deny ungodliness and that we should live righteously and godly in this present world.

While we should be honest with God, by what you had written here, it gives me the impression that you believe no believer can actually overcome sin when in reality the Bible does in fact teach that we can do so (Please see 1 Peter 4:1-2, Galatians 5:24, 2 Corinthians 7:1, and Romans 13:14).

Another problem is that God cannot agree with our sin. So if a believer is struggling with sin, then they need God’s help to overcome it. I mean, I get it. Believers are in a purification process in this life (2 Corinthians 7:1) (Romans 8:13). They are not going to always go from zero to hero overnight, but they cannot justify sin, and they cannot treat sin as if it is no more dangerous than a fluffy kitten. Jesus warned against how sin can destroy our souls in the afterlife (See: Matthew 5:22, Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, and Luke 9:62).

Believers need to confess and forsake sin in order to have mercy (Proverbs 28:13).
Believers cannot think they are slaves to sin because Jesus said he that sins is a slave to sin (John 8:34).
Jesus said a slave (slave to sin) will not abide in the house forever (John 8:35).
Meaning, Matthew 13:41-42 is going to happen. The Son of Man (Jesus) will send forth His angels and they will gather out of HIS Kingdom them who do iniquity (sin) and they will be cast into the furnace of fire (the Lake of Fire). For Jesus has to set His house in order before He can give it back to God the Father (1 Corinthians 15:24).
If I gave you the impression that I didn’t have trust that God could make me victorious over sin, I am pretty sure you need to have your impression reader checked.
Pretty sure you and I would completely disagree on the way TO that victory though.
 

Bible Highlighter

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It was your surety that the man you were talking to didn’t have the down payment of the Spirit that I gagged on.
When you make a downpayment on a house, that does not mean you don’t have to make any mortgage payments.
The Holy Spirit is the downpayment of our inheritance. But as Paul says that the unrighteous will not inherit the Kingdom of God.
Meaning, if we go back to living unrighteously or we never became righteous after we received God’s grace, then there is no inheritance.