1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[ScottA]

LOL, I put the yet in there because of all the people that believe because the body still needs to die, then we still have sin as a born again believer (like #396). NO! The nature is separate from the body. Romans 8:9-10

No...you are mistaken. That passage shows the two together, saying "in" (the body of flesh):

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

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Paul elaborated explaining further when he also said, "we who are alive and remain", meaning alive in the spirit, but remaining in the flesh and in the world. Which is no contradiction, but rather that the flesh can indeed contain the Spirit.

In Romans 8:9-10 Paul is rather speaking of "old things have passed away, all things have become new" with regard to their status and standing with God. It is a proclamation.

 

[Davy]

Read the whole book. The reason for John writing 1 John in the first place is 1 John 4:1-3. Those are the Gnostics, and they say exactly what 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 says and are not Christians. 1 John 1, 2 and 3 explains why the Gnostics are wrong.

Because you like what the Gnostics are saying, you believe Jesus does not take away our sin out of our flesh completely, so you use 1 John 1:9 as a get out of jail card every time you practice sinning. NO, 1 John 1:9 and Acts 2:38 are to receive the Holy Spirit ONCE, and it is a life-changing event.

You are insulting. And it's obvious you don't understand 1 John 1-6, but only in light of your own 'political' aims.

Apostle John was not just against Gnostics, but also against unbelieving JEWS that refused to admit that Jesus of Nazareth is The CHRIST, God having come in the flesh.

So go on, say your stupid insult again, what YOU said, "Because you like what the Gnostics are saying...".

 

[Jim B]

This is simply a matter of translation from Greek into English. What is the tense of the Greek word?

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You are insulting. And it's obvious you don't understand 1 John 1-6, but only in light of your own 'political' aims.

Apostle John was not just against Gnostics, but also against unbelieving JEWS that refused to admit that Jesus of Nazareth is The CHRIST, God having come in the flesh.

So go on, say your stupid insult again, what YOU said, "Because you like what the Gnostics are saying...".

Unbelieving Jews were NOT trying to infiltrate the Church. But the Gnostics were believers in Christ, but their doctrines about him were heretical, Just like denominations who believe that 1 John 1:8 are Christians. They believe in Christ, but only that He covers their sins so the Father can't see them - heretical. They also make fun of freedom from sin, only believing because we have a body that will die, that must mean we will still sin until this body dies, so Jesus forgives the past, present and FUTURE sins.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No...you are mistaken. That passage shows the two together, saying "in" (the body of flesh):

But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

​

Paul elaborated explaining further when he also said, "we who are alive and remain", meaning alive in the spirit, but remaining in the flesh and in the world. Which is no contradiction, but rather that the flesh can indeed contain the Spirit.

In Romans 8:9-10 Paul is rather speaking of "old things have passed away, all things have become new" with regard to their status and standing with God. It is a proclamation.

Read your Bible quote again. It does not say body of FLESH.

 

[Davy]

Unbelieving Jews were NOT trying to infiltrate the Church. But the Gnostics were believers in Christ, but their doctrines about him were heretical, Just like denominations who believe that 1 John 1:8 are Christians. They believe in Christ, but only that He covers their sins so the Father can't see them - heretical. They also make fun of freedom from sin, only believing because we have a body that will die, that must mean we will still sin until this body dies, so Jesus forgives the past, present and FUTURE sins.

You've been reported for making a flaming statement against me. And you are now in my IGNORE LIST. I refuse to converse with someone who cannot even recognize a true Christian Bible believer vs. someone who supports Gnosticism.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

You've been reported for making a flaming statement against me. And you are now in my IGNORE LIST. I refuse to converse with someone who cannot even recognize a true Christian Bible believer vs. someone who supports Gnosticism.

I have not named your denomination; in fact, I don't know. If the beliefs that Gnostics believed are being taught in someone's denomination, that is not my fault. I've seen their doctrine taught in EVERY denomination. We can be in a denomination, and still be wise enough to sift the Gnostic beliefs out of our minds. I'm just pointing out what they are, because I've studied them. Seeing as I've only tried to open people's eyes to the Gnostic teachings that have been handed down through the centuries but are not found in the Bible unless really twising the Word, you should say thank you.

If the administrator on this site takes sides with those Gnostic beliefs and want to pull the switch, that is up to them. But that started with you in God's eyes.

 

[Scott Downey]

8 He who sins is of the devil, for the devil has sinned from the beginning.
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whoever has been born of God does not sin, for His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin, because he has been born of God.

The answer is in the phrase
For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that He might destroy the works of the devil.
and

'born of God', means God's seed remains in the person and they are saved for all time.

Jesus destroys the work of the accuser, the devil, and that which is born of God can not sin. Very true, can not sin is true.
Key to understanding this is for those born of God have a new spirit. That spirit is a new creation in Christ, that new spirit has eternal life and is joined to the Lord as one spirit with him, and that spirit can not sin.
But even though we have that new man inside, the old man of the flesh of us can and does sin.
So you have to understand, when we are saved, we are forever perfected spiritually, and are joined to the Lord as ONE SPIRIT WITH HIM.
That bond will never be broken.

You are the new man of the spirit, your flesh though is the old man and is dead due to sin.
Do not get caught up in the argument of losing salvation due to sin as it cannot happen.
People who lose salvation and depart from Christ, God had never granted them to come to Christ, and were never born of God. But you might have assumed they were, but it was fake news.

John 6
63 It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him. 65 And He said, “Therefore I have said to you that no one can come to Me unless it has been granted to him by My Father.”

Hebrews 12

The Glorious Company​

18 For you have not come [g]to the mountain that may be touched and that burned with fire, and to blackness and [h]darkness and tempest, 19 and the sound of a trumpet and the voice of words, so that those who heard it begged that the word should not be spoken to them anymore. 20 (For they could not endure what was commanded: “And if so much as a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned [i]or shot with an arrow.” 21 And so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, “I am exceedingly afraid and trembling.”)

22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, to an innumerable company of angels, 23 to the [j]general assembly and church of the firstborn who are registered in heaven, to God the Judge of all, to the spirits of just men made perfect, 24 to Jesus the Mediator of the new covenant, and to the blood of sprinkling that speaks better things than that of Abel.

1 Corinthians 6, One spirit with God, but not one flesh with God....
15 Do you not know that your bodies are members of Christ? Shall I then take the members of Christ and make them members of a harlot? Certainly not! 16 Or do you not know that he who is joined to a harlot is one body with her? For “the two,” He says, “shall become one flesh.” 17 But he who is joined to the Lord is one spirit with Him.
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John 6
35 And Jesus said to them, “I am the bread of life. He who comes to Me shall never hunger, and he who believes in Me shall never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have seen Me and yet do not believe.
37 All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will [f]by no means cast out.
==============================
v37 also proves this. First you must be given by the Father to Christ, only then will you come to Christ and be saved, and He will never cast you away.

 

[Jim B]

The OP is about 1 John 3:9. "Is it cannot practice sin or cannot commit sin"? This is a matter of translating the Greek into English. IMHO, "practice" is a continuing action; "commit" is a one-time action.

Some translations have "make a practice of sinning", others have "does not sin", "practices sin", "doth not commit sin", "does not practice sin", "will continue to sin", "do not sin", "commits sin", etc.

Clearly, the Greek verb tense has no equivalent in English, so the question cannot be resolved.

 

[marks]

The OP is about 1 John 3:9. "Is it cannot practice sin or cannot commit sin"? This is a matter of translating the Greek into English. IMHO, "practice" is a continuing action; "commit" is a one-time action.

Some translations have "make a practice of sinning", others have "does not sin", "practices sin", "doth not commit sin", "does not practice sin", "will continue to sin", "do not sin", "commits sin", etc.

Clearly, the Greek verb tense has no equivalent in English, so the question cannot be resolved.

Actually, the verb tense/voice is present active, meaning, you are doing it now. And now. And now. And now. And so on. Continuous.

Much love!

 

[ScottA]

Read your Bible quote again. It does not say body of FLESH.

Romans 8:9-10
9 But you are not in the flesh but in the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God dwells in you. Now if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, he is not His. 10 And if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness.​

 

[Angel Faith]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing the word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

I don't see a difference.

 

[HIM]

Actually, that's still a "present active" verb, so you need to rethink that.

Much love!

No, the issue with promoting the verse being translated practice rather than commit is the defining of practice. It is not specific enough. You see we can practice golf once a day, week, month, year or every couple of years. It is heart intention., willful practice or committing that John is speaking of and warning us about. However, is committing; or better yet, is doing is probably better than any of the choices given in this thread.

Unbelieving Jews were NOT trying to infiltrate the Church. But the Gnostics were believers in Christ, but their doctrines about him were heretical, Just like denominations who believe that 1 John 1:8 are Christians. They believe in Christ, but only that He covers their sins so the Father can't see them - heretical. They also make fun of freedom from sin, only believing because we have a body that will die, that must mean we will still sin until this body dies, so Jesus forgives the past, present and FUTURE sins.

1:8 is in the 1st person plural. The writer John is including himself in the admonition. Sin here in verse 8 is a noun not a verb. Temptation will always be a problem for us here. If we confess the temptation, the noun as we are tempted God is faithful to remove that sin before it becomes an action and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

Actually, the verb tense/voice is present active, meaning, you are doing it now. And now. And now. And now. And so on. Continuous.

Much love!

No, the issue with promoting the verse being translated practice or continuous rather than commit is the defining of practice or continuous. It is not specific enough. You see we can practice or be continuously active in golf once a day, week, month, year or every couple of years. It is heart intention., willful practice or committing that John is speaking of and warning us about. But keep in mind verse 2:1. If we do sin we have an advocate, so we need not lose hope. However, is committing; or better yet, is doing is probably better than any of the choices given in this thread.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

1:8 is in the 1st person plural. The writer John is including himself in the admonition. Sin here in verse 8 is a noun not a verb. Temptation will always be a problem for us here. If we confess the temptation, the noun as we are tempted God is faithful to remove that sin before it becomes an action and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

That is our western thinking, and totally incompatible with the eastern thinking and writing style of the Hebrew Apostles. You need advanced training if you are stuck in your western mindset in order to know what God is saying through His apostles.

 

[marks]

No, the issue with promoting the verse being translated practice or continuous rather than commit is the defining of practice or continuous. It is not specific enough. You see we can practice or be continuously active in golf once a day, week, month, year or every couple of years. It is heart intention., willful practice or committing that John is speaking of and warning us about. But keep in mind verse 2:1. If we do sin we have an advocate, so we need not lose hope. However, is committing; or better yet, is doing is probably better than any of the choices given in this thread.

What I'm saying is that the verb tense/voice denotes something you are continuously doing, or, more specifically, doing at all times. Constant fleshy life, no spiritual life. Nothing done of the Spirit.

There's nothing here about the motives or desire of the person, only, that they sins at all times. That describes someone unchanged by a new birth, that is, the person not reborn.

Much love!

 

[HIM]

That is our western thinking, and totally incompatible with the eastern thinking and writing style of the Hebrew Apostles. You need advanced training if you are stuck in your western mindset in order to know what God is saying through His apostles.

You haven't addressed the points of the posts. John did write through God verse 1:8 in the 1st person plural. In other words The writer John is including himself in the admonition. And Sin here in verse 8 is a noun not a verb. Temptation will always be a problem for us here. If we confess the temptation, the noun as we are tempted God is faithful to remove that sin before it becomes an action and cleanse us from all unrighteousness.

 

[HIM]

What I'm saying is that the verb tense/voice denotes something you are continuously doing, or, more specifically, doing at all times. Constant fleshy life, no spiritual life. Nothing done of the Spirit.

There's nothing here about the motives or desire of the person, only, that they sins at all times. That describes someone unchanged by a new birth, that is, the person not reborn.

Much love!

It is always about intention. He that knows to do good and does it not, to him it is sin.

My friend the tense does not work that way. Will you hold that principle to the other instances to which the Greek word is used in the same tense? Sticking to just John he uses that word with the same tense/voice 5 other times. Verse 3:4 shows you are wrong in and of itself. But hold your principle to some of the other verses listed below and see how you feel about it. There are 30 total that use ποιῶν. I listed a few of the others as well. Much love to you also.



1John 2:17 καὶ And ὁ The κόσμος World παράγεται Is Passing Away, καὶ And ἡ The ἐπιθυμία Lust αὐτοῦ Of It, ὁ δὲ But He That ποιῶν is Doing τὸ The θέλημα Will τοῦ θεοῦ Of God μένει Abides εἰς For τὸν αἰῶνα Ever. TRi

1John 2:29 ἐὰν If εἰδῆτε Ye Know ὅτι That δίκαιός Righteous ἐστιν He Is, γινώσκετε Ye Know ὅτι That πᾶς Everyone ὁ Who ποιῶν is doing τὴν δικαιοσύνην Righteousness ἐξ Of αὐτοῦ Him γεγέννηται Has Been Begotten. TRi

1John 3:4 Πᾶς Everyone ὁ That ποιῶν is doing τὴν the ἁμαρτίαν Sin, καὶ Also τὴν ἀνομίαν Lawlessness ποιεῖ is doing; καὶ And ἡ ἁμαρτία Sin ἐστὶν Is ἡ ἀνομία Lawlessness. TRi

1John 3:7
Τεκνία Little Children, μηδεὶς No One πλανάτω Let Lead Astray ὑμᾶς· You; ὁ He That ποιῶν is doing τὴν δικαιοσύνην Righteousness, δίκαιός Righteous ἐστιν Is, καθὼς Even As ἐκεῖνος He δίκαιός Righteous ἐστιν· Is.

1John 3:8 ὁ He That ποιῶν is doing τὴν ἁμαρτίαν Sin, ἐκ Of τοῦ The διαβόλου Devil ἐστίν Is; ὅτι Because ἀπ' From 'The' ἀρχῆς Beginning ὁ The διάβολος Devil ἁμαρτάνει Sins. εἰς For τοῦτο This ἐφανερώθη Was Manifested ὁ The υἱὸς Son τοῦ θεοῦ Of God, ἵνα That λύσῃ He Might Undo τὰ The ἔργα Works τοῦ Of The διαβόλου Devil. TRi

1John 3:10
ἐν In τούτῳ This φανερά Manifest ἐστιν Are τὰ The τέκνα Children τοῦ θεοῦ Of God καὶ And τὰ The τέκνα Children τοῦ Of The διαβόλου· Devil. πᾶς Anyone ὁ That μὴ Not ποιῶν is doing δικαιοσύνην Righteousness οὐκ Not ἔστιν Is ἐκ Of τοῦ θεοῦ God, καὶ And ὁ He That μὴ ἀγαπῶν Loves Not τὸν ἀδελφὸν Brother αὐτοῦ His.

(Matt 7:21 [TRi])
Οὐ Not πᾶς Every One ὁ Who λέγων Says μοι, To Me, Κύριε Lord, κύριε Lord, εἰσελεύσεται Shall Enter εἰς Into τὴν The βασιλείαν Kingdom τῶν Of The οὐρανῶν Heavens, ἀλλ' But ὁ He Who ποιῶν Does τὸ The θέλημα Will τοῦ πατρός μου Of My Father τοῦ Who 'Is' ἐν In οὐρανοῖς 'The' Heavens.

(Luke 6:47 [TRi])
πᾶς Every One ὁ Who ἐρχόμενος Is Coming πρός To με Me καὶ And ἀκούων Hearing μου My τῶν λόγων Words καὶ And ποιῶν Doing αὐτούς Them, ὑποδείξω I Will Shew ὑμῖν You τίνι To Whom ἐστὶν He Is ὅμοιος· Like.

 

[Peterlag]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing the word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

It does not say in my Bible anything about practicing sin. Three verses later it says we cannot sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

It does not say in my Bible anything about practicing sin. Three verses later it says we cannot sin.

1 John 3:9
Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1 John 3:9
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New American Standard Bible
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9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

 

[Peterlag]

1 John 3:9​

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New American Standard Bible​

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9 No one who has been born of God practices sin, because His seed remains in him; and he cannot sin continually, because he has been born of God.

Can you give me the Greek word for "practices" or the Greek for "continually"