1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[michaelvpardo]

All sounds great, but you need Scriptural proof to back up that the specific teachings of Jesus Christ at the sermon on the Mount do not apply to us today. You need to show that with God’s Word. Right now… it’s just you talking. That’s not proof of anything. Yes, the Old Law was fulfilled, but you have not proved that the sermon on the Mount teachings were all exclusively Old Covenant. Yes, Jesus gave these new ways under the Old Covenant, but that does not mean they are all Old Covenant teachings because we don’t see many of these teachings in the Old Testament. Plus, what do you make of 1 Timothy 6:3-4 when Paul says if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ? The words we have of Jesus primarily are in the gospels and God would know that (even ahead of time because God knows the future in that the Holy Bible would one day come into existence from the various letters of Scripture, etcetera).

Actually, neither I nor any other born again saint has any burden of proof about anything. The Holy Spirit is He who convicts of sin and convinces of truth. If Jesus couldn't prove Himself to the priests, scribes, Pharisees and Herodians, who are you to demand proof? It's all in scripture for those with eyes to see.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

9Now He also told this parable to some people who trusted in themselves that they were righteous, and viewed others with contempt: 10“Two men went up into the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the other a tax collector. 11The Pharisee stood and began praying this in regard to himself: ‘God, I thank You that I am not like other people: swindlers, crooked, adulterers, or even like this tax collector. 12I fast twice a week; I pay tithes of all that I get.’ 13But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to raise his eyes toward heaven, but was beating his chest, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’ 14I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other one; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”
Luke 18:9-14

I already brought up this parable with you already. The point of this parable is that the Pharisee was not doing what the Tax Collector did (Which is cry out to God and have a moment of being saved by God’s grace). The false Pharisee religion made it all about Works ALONE Salvation with little to no grace. In fact, in Acts 15, we learn of a heresy of which I call: “Circumcision Salvationism.” This was the false belief that said you had to first be circumcised in order to be initially saved. See Acts of the Apostles 15:1, Acts of the Apostles 15:5, and Acts of the Apostles 15:24. Paul said if you seek to be circumcised Christ will profit you nothing (Galatians 5:2). This is why Paul spoke negatively of the Law or works when he used these words generically. For if a person thought they had to be circumcised to be saved (Which is a part of the Old Law), then they would be making the Law or work the entrance gate and foundation of their salvation (Which would nullify being saved initially by God’s grace through faith).

That’s why Paul stressed that we are saved by God’s grace through faith without works in our Initial Salvation in several places in Scripture (Ephesians 2:8-9) (Romans 4:3-5) (Titus 3:5).

 

[michaelvpardo]

According to God, Paul was not supposed to persecute His people. So no. He was not blameless in the keeping of even the Old Law seeing that he did not love his true brethren (he did not know were his real brethren). You cannot be blameless and kill your brothers.

If you contradict scripture, and you do, you really have no business here at all.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, neither I nor any other born again saint has any burden of proof about anything. The Holy Spirit is He who convicts of sin and convinces of truth. If Jesus couldn't prove Himself to the priests, scribes, Pharisees and Herodians, who are you to demand proof? It's all in scripture for those with eyes to see.

We are to earnestly contend for the faith, and we are to be good Bereans. If you cannot support your views by Scripture then it simply is not biblical. I have already established my belief as biblical with you, and like many over the years I have talked with, they simply don’t have the ability or capacity to put their mouth where Scripture is.

God’s good ways be unto you in the LORD.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you contradict scripture, and you do, you really have no business here at all.

The contradiction only exists in your own mind. You are not really explaining the verses I put forth to you which shows the weakness of your belief.
All I can do is encourage you to go back and look at the verses I put forth to you. If not your claims here are only hollow and empty and they have no real merit in light of God’s Word.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Actually, neither I nor any other born again saint has any burden of proof about anything. The Holy Spirit is He who convicts of sin and convinces of truth. If Jesus couldn't prove Himself to the priests, scribes, Pharisees and Herodians, who are you to demand proof? It's all in scripture for those with eyes to see.

Faith comes by hearing and hearing the Word of God (Romans 10:17). Faith does not come by hearing what you say or what other Perpetual Belief Alone Salvationists say.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

@michaelvpardo

Unless you explain the verses I put forth to you, then there is no point in my continuing to have this discourse with you. If that is the case, I will move on from talking to you directly and only address any unbiblical things you may say in an indirect way (like speaking to an audience) if I feel it is necessary to do so. Until then, may the Lord bless you and your family.

 

[MatthewG]

People look at the scripture and come up with many different things, all that is known to me is that people who have faith in the Lord Jesus Christ are made right with God. When it comes to sin, it was paid for on the cross. The only thing left to do is to die to sin and live for God.

People will always have a way they see things from their experiences in life, from their family to going to church and learning things, and people can also use the Bible and come up with some things as well, like people who believe they need to keep the sabbath day, or that people MUST be baptized in water to even be saved.

For me: I will place my point out, another will place their point out. It’s all fine and great: and I don’t have to accept what others my infer they believe I need to accept to be in unity with the other.

I say this, the Bible is secondary and the spirit is primary.

To love despite differences.

 

[MatthewG]

But even love in Greek has 8 definitions and people believe they must correct people who are in error with their own thinking, which should probably be handled in allowing God to deal with their mind and heart, sharing in love by the spirit, love defined in 1 Corinthians 13.

You know I’m glad the account of John and the disciples stopping someone from casting out demons in His name. That Jesus said leave them be; for whoever is for me are for me.

 

[Phoneman777]

What is the difference in understanding and truth between us not practicing sin, or not committing sin? Note the context of this chapter and what type of sin John is talking about 1 John 3:4 sins of lawlessness. What does changing the word to practice allow us to do. Of course, cannot commit sin has no other meaning.

A better question is, "Does this refer to a Just Man's sin or a Presumptuous Man's habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous, impenitent sin?"

The answer is obvious: the Presumptuous Man's, which grace cannot and will not cover.

 

[Phoneman777]

Actually, neither I nor any other born again saint has any burden of proof about anything. The Holy Spirit is He who convicts of sin and convinces of truth. If Jesus couldn't prove Himself to the priests, scribes, Pharisees and Herodians, who are you to demand proof? It's all in scripture for those with eyes to see.

What standard is used by Him to convince us we are or are not a saint?

"Hereby we do know that we know Him IF we keep His commandments".
"And hereby we do know we love the children of God when we love God and keep His commandments".

That is why when a Christian begins to give in to habitual sin (which 1 John 3:4 KJV says is the transgression of the law") the Holy Spirit comes to us and reminds us of what the law says - so that we can either repent or stubbornly refuse to do so, after which we "sear our conscience with a hot iron" and wind up unable to repent, as Hebrews 6:6 KJV testifies.

 

[Wrangler]

God's Eternal Gift, is not maintained by your commandment keeping self effort..

Not another thread derailed by you OSAS dogma.

This thread is NOT about eternal salvation. The question is, once saved are you capable of sinning? Or are you merely unable to practice sinning. I am interested in your take and am grateful to @1stCenturyLady for starting this.

 

[Wrangler]

But after you come to Jesus and are saved and have received the Holy Spirit how can you miss all the scriptures that say we do keep the commandments?

Great question! I think there is something to the psychology of those who make their doctrines idols. They rationalize beyond all reason for what is not defensible by 4 pillars:

1. Definition
2. Logic
3. Language Usage
4. Explicit Scripture

Idolatry was once hard for me to grasp until I began to see it in man-made doctrines. Then I can never unsee it.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

It's November.........THANKSGIVING MONTH.

@times these threads remind me of a bunch ofsquabble,squabble,squabble,squabble,squable
Wouldnt let me add a turkey

Give thanks always unto the Lord for HE is good.

 

[farouk]

1 John 1's stricture seems to be about continuing in sin; not about being 'overtaken in a fault'.

 

[farouk]

It's November.........THANKSGIVING MONTH.

@times these threads remind me of a bunch ofsquabble,squabble,squabble,squabble,squable
Wouldnt let me add a turkey

Give thanks always unto the Lord for HE is good.

@L3astAm0ngManyB13ss3d Amen!

(PS: Up here in Canada we already had Canadian Thanksgiving.......)

 

[1stCenturyLady]

No I'm neither naive nor familiar with Calvin's teaching. I'm born again and taught by God. While it seems that you're just another dismissive cultist.

I'm not a cultist. You can't be a cultist when you honor the Word of God and understand and abide by what it says.

You don't have to know who Calvin was to believe the garbage his doctrines that have infiltrated the Church for the past 500 years have taugt. They are believed by those with itching ears. And you did by spouting his doctrine of God choosing those who are His elect and who isn't. There are even scriptures in this thread that contradict his false doctrine.

 

[1stCenturyLady]

A better question is, "Does this refer to a Just Man's sin or a Presumptuous Man's habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous, impenitent sin?"

The answer is obvious: the Presumptuous Man's, which grace cannot and will not cover.

That is a whole new subject and feel free to start a post which I would love to join in. I'm talking the question about translation in 1 John 1:4 which is the content of the type of sin in verse 9.

 

[MatthewG]

It's November.........THANKSGIVING MONTH.

@times these threads remind me of a bunch ofsquabble,squabble,squabble,squabble,squable
Wouldnt let me add a turkey

Give thanks always unto the Lord for HE is good.

Haha you sound like me but I never say it hardly. Thanksgiving and praise is a part of a Christian’s life even in rough patches.

 

[Phoneman777]

That is a whole new subject and feel free to start a post which I would love to join in. I'm talking the question about translation in 1 John 1:4 which is the content of the type of sin in verse 9.

"Commit" and "Practice" refer to two different types of behavior: a spouse may commit murder once to get rid of an abusive husband or unfaithful wife, but a serial killer "practices" habitual murder. In my long Christian experience, I've seen only two interpretations of 1 John 3:9 KJV:

1) "Commit Sin" - the Christian cannot "commit sin" because his sinful behavior is no longer regarded as "sin" in the sight of God and therefore demands no punishment (while the sinner's identical behavior demands eternal punishment). A blind man can see this makes grace a OSAS License to Sin.

2) "Practice Sin" - the Christian cannot continue to "practice sin" which is habitual, deliberate, known, presumptuous, impenitent sin, and instead chooses to permanently repent from it - because grace leads him to the place where he would rather die than continue to grieve the heart of God, knowing the height and breadth and depth of His love will be shown to us in new revelation for all eternity.​

The Christian who's satisfied with committing the same sins today that he was committing 5 years ago has ceased from being covered by His grace and the unavoidable growth in it.