1 John 3:9 - Is it cannot "practice" sin, or cannot "commit" sin?

[Bible Highlighter]

The King James Bible says “commit sin” for 1 John 3:9. This was the Bible that existed for hundreds of years long before the modern translations showed up.

Then again many do not believe in a perfect inerrant Word of God today.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Look, I don’t think the people you are speaking to in here go bar hopping and live in hedonism. So I don’t really know what you think you are preaching to them that will help them. It’s more inward sins they struggle with, like murder/anger and worry over temporal stuff that we were were told not to worry about they are struggling with. And most of us have struggled for some years to trust more radically and have struggled for years to try to fix our hearts. We eventually did this: cease striving and know that I am God.
So I’m not sure if you know your…audience. We can always use building up of our trust since it’s a race of trust we are running. But I don’t know what help you think you might be giving to us hollering about how one sin can send us to hellfire…

Jesus said to look upon a woman in lust means they are in danger of hellfire. So if they are doing such a thing on rare occasion and thinking they are saved because they cannot lose their salvation, then they are turning God’s grace into a license for immorality. Remember, it only took one sin for Adam and Eve to be separated from God. If they slip up into a lie, the danger is the same. Revelation says all liars will have their part in the Lake of Fire. Meaning, if they think they can lie on occasion and be saved without confessing and forsaking that sin and or thinking that sin will not condemn them, then they are not believing God’s Word. They place themselves above the consequences of sin (As it is written in God’s Holy Word).

Building up can only happen if one accepts the Scriptures as they are written. Most today do not accept them. They say the words of Jesus on his warning against how sin can destroy our souls does not apply to us today. It’s like the elaborate story you told me involving Ananias and Sapphira. There is no indication in the text of what you said. I just read and believe the Bible and I am not seeking to make it say something that it doesn’t (When it does not agree with my line of thinking). Therein lies the difference between us. We should tremble at the Word. The Word should change us instead.

Blessings be unto you in the LORD even if we disagree on Scripture.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

BH, how many years has it been since you received the Holy Spirit?

 

[GodsGrace]

Ah…there’s a lot to this. I can talk about what I know of it.

About a year and a half ago, God calmed my passions. It was such a drastic thing I just walked around puzzled. Not distressed, just in some wonderment. Someone would do or say something very nasty and mean to me and there was not that quick blush of anger that always rises up inside me, the quickening of my pulse, the tremendous effort to try not murder them in my heart and with my tongue. I would just stand there in amazement as to why I was not angry even though they’d been horribly awful to me. There were other things too, like knowing I was hungry but not being able to stir up myself as to what I wanted to eat. My passions just weren’t helping me. I just wanted some food, not a certain kind of food. They appeared to be gone. Passions just gone. It’s great relief and peace and calmness.

At some point, I said, oh my gosh, am I…crucified finally…?? Is that what this is? I began to think it was, but came to see it was this: my soul is like a weaned child within me. My passions weren’t completely gone, they were put under my feet, in subjection to the Spirit in me. My passions no longer ruled over me mercilessly. They were in subjection. I was weaned from my flesh/passions.

God had dealt with my flesh so it couldn’t be stirred up by someone else’s flesh any longer.

This is wonderful and something that should be experienced by every believer, at some point or another.
My feeling as to the above is that when we start out we could have two experiences:
1. Our sin nature is immediately put under subjegation -- I use the word dominance. Same thing.
2. This takes some time. I have no idea what would cause this to take time. Maybe the personality of the person, maybe something we can't know.

But there are deeper seated imperfections, not of the flesh but more of my spirit and I’m grateful He let me see that or I might have begun saying things I shouldn’t have and caused harm to someone else, or even just great frustration to them and got puffed up and lost what He had let me gain.

I think I could have become like those who go around saying they no longer sin and are holy but He didn’t let that happen to me.

Yes, deeper seated imperfections. Anger is right at the surface.
But I believe we get to see them all, one at a time - however long it may take.
I do believe that's up to the Holy Spirit since He is the convicter of sin, and our helper in overcoming.
And, these deeper seated imperfections are surely different for each person.

So all that chatter is to say - they say they don’t sin because they are not yet aware of the more deep seated imperfections of spirit they still have, and the difference between them and the former is like spot removal of a recent stain versus scouring to remove a deeper, long-standing stain.
One is having come through the dark night of the soul and the other is beginning the dark night of the Spirit. But John of the Cross says not all are called to the second night and another old saint said not all are called to as much love while on earth. I don’t know if I fully believe that though. I think being weaned is preparation to help for a more strenuous purging, but I’m not sure.

Some may be too superficial in life so as to recognize that these deeper seated imperfections even exist.
We definitely all need God's grace and mercy.

But I especially like what you've stated, highlighted above:
they say they don’t sin because they are not yet aware of the more deep seated imperfections of spirit they still have, and the difference between them and the former is like spot removal of a recent stain versus scouring to remove a deeper, long-standing stain.

Amen to that!
I know a couple of posters (not here) that claim they never sin.
As I understand sin to be these imperfections you correctly speak of..
I believe even saying you never sin, IS a sin.

But yes, I do believe it is possible to get to no sinning and I think it’s called walking in the Spirit versus just being led by the Spirit in the desert of the testing of our trust. Being in the desert versus entering the promised land. I don’t know anything about it by experience. Not yet. And maybe those men are right and I may not ever walk in the Spirit. God will either take me there and let me enter or He won’t. Being weaned brings a great calmness about it all. God will do what He wills and it will be whatever is best for me.

I just realized I didn’t add in all the verses that show these things. I can do that later. Theres a lot of them.

No verses needed.
I think that walking in the spirit just means that our walk here on earth is by the spirit and not by the flesh.
I used to go study at a sanctuary with about 5 monks (before covid - it's been cancelled) and they'll tell you they sin.
This is because they understand the deeper imperfections.
Even the Pope goes to confession.
I don't think we ever get to a state of perfection.
John Wesley believed so and some holiness churches taught this...
One I know about is the Nazarene church - they no longer teach this.

 

[GodsGrace]

Look, I don’t think the people you are speaking to in here go bar hopping and live in hedonism. So I don’t really know what you think you are preaching to them that will help them. It’s more inward sins they struggle with, like murder/anger and worry over temporal stuff that we were were told not to worry about they are struggling with. And most of us have struggled for some years to trust more radically and have struggled for years to try to fix our hearts. We eventually did this: cease striving and know that I am God.
So I’m not sure if you know your…audience. We can always use building up of our trust since it’s a race of trust we are running. But I don’t know what help you think you might be giving to us hollering about how one sin can send us to hellfire…

Uh oh.
Another one.

 

[GodsGrace]

What is your view of 1 John 1:8?

As for trusting God:

To obey God is trusting Him. To believe His Word (like his many warnings to His people) is trusting what He says. Most are too overconfident at the expense of God’s Word. Look at the churches in Revelation. Most of them were not doing too well. Not all things in the Bible are comfort verses or things that you want to hear. Yes, there are comforting promises, but they come with conditions.

As for edification:

I believe edification is for believers who are truly seeking to do the right thing with the LORD (According to His Word).
Those who are seeking to justify sin by saying 1 John 1:8 is a banner flag to sin this side of Heaven are not seeking to do the right thing with God fully.
We must decide that we will not sin anymore instead of saying we must sin again (As many in Christianity teach today).

If I decide that I will NOT sin anymore,
does that mean I will not?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I don't think we ever get to a state of perfection.

Well, technically, you are right, because even a man like Paul, who actually walked in the Spirit, did not then walk in a state of perfection. He walked in a place of Gods perfection. It was never Paul’s perfection. There is only one who is holy.

But we at least know that if we walk in the Spirit we will not fulfill the lusts of our flesh, which screams out for preference and honor and screams out to us to defend our self against other selves who offend us or don’t show kindness to us. Our flesh just really makes us miserable. It taunts and is a thorn to us, putting us in constant agitation and churning and resentment at other selves.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I believe even saying you never sin, IS a sin.

And here again, you are technically very correct. Even if you one day walk in the Spirit, not sinning for the length of time you walk there, you’re reaction would not be to go to others and say, I dont sin any more, it would be a wonderment at how God DID this and how you’ve come to find yourself there. I don’t think you would have even a thought about how holy you are but would instead be awed by how holy God is. I think if you had a single thought of wow, I’m holy, you would immediately be out of the Spirit.

 

[Lambano]

Im trying to think what I would say to someone with a drug addiction to help them. I don’t know. But I know you have a heart for them and know God will give you the way. I think if it were me, I would…maybe… …i don’t know, maybe you won’t understand what I’m saying.

No. No, I don't understand.

Unfortunately, I no longer have a means of contacting that troubled man. I was never in a position to offer that kind of help anyway. If he's still lurking, I hope he getting the help he needs, and I hope he's able to trust Jesus as a Savior, not just just see Him as a Judge. I haven't prayed for him in a while; thank you for the reminder.

 

[MatthewG]

No person has ever been perfect in the flesh, except Jesus Christ.

It is personally those who seek out in faith for God, that God writes on the hearts and minds of individuals. Can they still go and sin against God freely? Absolutely just as the Observer had done in the Garden, having beguiled Eve in which She choose by her own free-will to go ahead and partake in what God told Adam and Eve not to do.

Adam and Eve represent mankind as a whole. Created by God, given life by God, given ways to eat by God, given the ability to have dominion over all of the animals of the land, in the sea, and in the air. They were freely given the choice to either eat from the tree of life or the tree of knowledge of Good and Evil.

That is what people in the world do today, and decide for themselves what they will pursue in their own life and it is personally subjective between them and God.

Genesis 3​

​

Young's Literal Translation​

​

​

3 And the serpent (OBSERVER) hath been subtile above every beast of the field which Jehovah God hath made, and he saith unto the woman, `Is it true that God hath said, Ye do not eat of every tree of the garden?'
2 And the woman saith unto the serpent, `Of the fruit of the trees of the garden we do eat,
3 and of the fruit of the tree which [is] in the midst of the garden God hath said, Ye do not eat of it, nor touch it, lest ye die.'
4 And the serpent saith unto the woman, `Dying, ye do not die,
5 for God doth know that in the day of your eating of it -- your eyes have been opened, and ye have been as God, knowing good and evil.'
6 And the woman seeth that the tree [is] good for food, and that it [is] pleasant to the eyes, and the tree is desirable to make [one] wise, and she taketh of its fruit and eateth, and giveth also to her husband with her, and he doth eat;
7 and the eyes of them both are opened, and they know that they [are] naked, and they sew fig-leaves, and make to themselves girdles.
8 And they hear the sound of Jehovah God walking up and down in the garden at the breeze of the day, and the man and his wife hide themselves from the face of Jehovah God in the midst of the trees of the garden.

 

[Lambano]

But I know you have a heart for them and know God will give you the way.

My heart isn't for addicts per se; my heart is for those who KNOW there's something wrong with them - but can't change. Those whom God for whatever reason chooses not to heal at this time.

Especially those whose religious indoctrination replaces TRUST with ... something else, like "election" or "try harder", leaving them in bondage and condemnation.

Now, if God could extend my heart to those who remain in bondage because they don't even know that they need to change... Wait, I'm not supposed to admit that I lack something. Never admit that you lack, or you're going to Hell.

 

[dhh712]

Look, I don’t think the people you are speaking to in here go bar hopping and live in hedonism. So I don’t really know what you think you are preaching to them that will help them. It’s more inward sins they struggle with, like murder/anger and worry over temporal stuff that we were were told not to worry about they are struggling with. And most of us have struggled for some years to trust more radically and have struggled for years to try to fix our hearts. We eventually did this: cease striving and know that I am God.
So I’m not sure if you know your…audience. We can always use building up of our trust since it’s a race of trust we are running. But I don’t know what help you think you might be giving to us hollering about how one sin can send us to hellfire…

I took some time away from this thread to ponder God's revelation to us. It is Christ's righteousness which enables us to be presented before Him blameless. Only should we be in Him are we blameless. From my understanding of the doctrines of God's word, I still am under the understanding--and like I said, who am I to say that God doesn't make exceptions?--that we will still experience some moral corruption no matter how much God sanctifies us in this life. So, firstly, I hope that no believer would understand themselves to be able to be presented blameless before God *without* being in Christ.

Also, there is no condemnation now for those whom God has saved, to whom he imputed the righteousness of Christ (this from Rom 8:1). I appreciate our contender's high view of sin, but it is as he was saying he hoped we would not think: sin has no bearing now on whether we are saved. Jesus became sin for us so that the law now has no effect on us. We are under grace, not under the law.

To those who do not love God, they can view that as a license to sin. Unfortunately, to those who view it as such, they are not in Christ so the law and sin will cause them to not be saved.

God's word does speak this hard truth to those who hate sin, as all of us who love God should: we can sin all we want. However, we should not want to. And though that sin has no bearing on our salvation, God can and often does punish us temporally for our sins. He will chastise us because he loves us.

Our contender here is speaking with the mouth of Satan: he is accusing the brethren. He does know some verses of God's word and uses them to accuse us. Yet he ignores others such as this: Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies (Rom 8: 33). I like the translation the Amplified Bible affords: Who will bring any charge against God’s elect (His chosen ones)? It is God who justifies us [declaring us blameless and putting us in a right relationship with Himself]. It is God who declares us blameless when we are in Christ because it is Christ's righteousness which is imputed onto us (the only way we can be declared blameless because Jesus is the only human who ever fulfilled God's law perfectly).

I understand BH to be upholding that which William Law wrote on, who also believed in sinless perfection. Such teachings, contrary of course to God's revelation of Himself, has caused many Christians to despair in thinking that something can separate us from God's love (which is also a verse in Scripture that apparently he does not know). Now Law wrote his books at a time when Christian nominalism was a very popular thing, as it is now. So, like I said, he has the right view of sin to not take it lightly like many Christians unfortunately do.

I will depart from this conversation now because it is a dangerous one to the fragile Christian which at times I consider myself. A few years ago the Lord had dealt me a severe blow and though it has ultimately strengthened my faith, I find myself at times angry at God because of His plan for my life. This struggle I have causes the devil to accuse me and it is a fight enough to battle with him. In my depression, I have found comfort in what Luther once said when he battled depression, "I have been baptised".

It is good to speak with you though and I look forward to conversing with you, though on other threads than this one! Be strong in the Lord and know that it is Jesus alone whom we stand in and provides for us our right relationship with God. It is a blessing to know you, sister.

 

[stunnedbygrace]

My heart isn't for addicts per se; my heart is for those who KNOW there's something wrong with them - but can't change. Those whom God for whatever reason chooses not to heal at this time.

Especially those whose religious indoctrination replaces TRUST with ... something else, like "election" or "try harder", leaving them in bondage and condemnation.

Now, if God could extend my heart to those who remain in bondage because they don't even know that they need to change... Wait, I'm not supposed to admit that I lack something. Never admit that you lack, or you're going to Hell.

So your heart is for babies who are walking in the road that have every honking car vying for their attention and trying to get them to climb in and confusing them. Your heart is to build up their trust and get them out of that road As quickly as possible. So then, God has given to you a heart for edification/building others up in trust. So go preach it. Go grab the babies for Him!

 

[GodsGrace]

My heart isn't for addicts per se; my heart is for those who KNOW there's something wrong with them - but can't change. Those whom God for whatever reason chooses not to heal at this time.

Especially those whose religious indoctrination replaces TRUST with ... something else, like "election" or "try harder", leaving them in bondage and condemnation.

Now, if God could extend my heart to those who remain in bondage because they don't even know that they need to change... Wait, I'm not supposed to admit that I lack something. Never admit that you lack, or you're going to Hell.

Instead your heart SHOULD BE for addicts per se.
Because they are under the influence of satan and for this we should feel sorry for persons that don't even know this.
Jesus felt sorrow for sinners.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

BH, how many years has it been since you received the Holy Spirit?

In my 10 plus years in discussing these kinds of topics, I discovered that many try to make it personal when they cannot answer verses put forth to them or they explain away simple passages (When they don’t agree with them). I am not cross examining your life with God and making it personal (of which I know you would take offense to). So personal questions like these is to put a spotlight on another to make them look bad. They are a diversion in attempt to attack and belittle another vs one dealing with what the Bible says. This is thread is not about me. This thread is about 1 John 3:9. I asked you before about your viewpoint on 1 John 1:8. This is asking your opinion on a verse in context that relates to your understanding on 1 John 3:9. Please stick with the discussion on what the Bible says.

Thank you;
And may the LORD bless you.

 

[Lambano]

Instead your heart SHOULD BE for addicts per se.
Because they are under the influence of satan and for this we should feel sorry for persons that don't even know this.
Jesus felt sorrow for sinners.

I love your heart!

A kid from our church (well, mid-thirties is not really a "kid" anymore) runs a half-way house for addicts. God gave him a heart for these people. It's a tough job and requires a certain set of gifts which I don't have. He has a calling. I don't know what my calling really is (if I indeed have one), but I know that's not it. I'd get eaten alive.

I don't know. There's general compassion for lost and hurting people, and then there's ... certain people and situations that compel me. I don't know how else to explain it.

(Though in thinking about it, the young man with the half-way house might be a good resource for me if the situation comes up again.)

 

[Wrangler]

And here again, you are technically very correct.

Does the qualifier, "technically" imply there is a non-technical sense in which this is NOT correct?

 

[stunnedbygrace]

I took some time away from this thread to ponder God's revelation to us. It is Christ's righteousness which enables us to be presented before Him blameless. Only should we be in Him are we blameless. From my understanding of the doctrines of God's word, I still am under the understanding--and like I said, who am I to say that God doesn't make exceptions?--that we will still experience some moral corruption no matter how much God sanctifies us in this life. So, firstly, I hope that no believer would understand themselves to be able to be presented blameless before God *without* being in Christ.

Also, there is no condemnation now for those whom God has saved, to whom he imputed the righteousness of Christ (this from Rom 8:1). I appreciate our contender's high view of sin, but it is as he was saying he hoped we would not think: sin has no bearing now on whether we are saved. Jesus became sin for us so that the law now has no effect on us. We are under grace, not under the law.

To those who do not love God, they can view that as a license to sin. Unfortunately, to those who view it as such, they are not in Christ so the law and sin will cause them to not be saved.

God's word does speak this hard truth to those who hate sin, as all of us who love God should: we can sin all we want. However, we should not want to. And though that sin has no bearing on our salvation, God can and often does punish us temporally for our sins. He will chastise us because he loves us.

Our contender here is speaking with the mouth of Satan: he is accusing the brethren. He does know some verses of God's word and uses them to accuse us. Yet he ignores others such as this: Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies (Rom 8: 33). I like the translation the Amplified Bible affords: Who will bring any charge against God’s elect (His chosen ones)? It is God who justifies us [declaring us blameless and putting us in a right relationship with Himself]. It is God who declares us blameless when we are in Christ because it is Christ's righteousness which is imputed onto us (the only way we can be declared blameless because Jesus is the only human who ever fulfilled God's law perfectly).

I understand BH to be upholding that which William Law wrote on, who also believed in sinless perfection. Such teachings, contrary of course to God's revelation of Himself, has caused many Christians to despair in thinking that something can separate us from God's love (which is also a verse in Scripture that apparently he does not know). Now Law wrote his books at a time when Christian nominalism was a very popular thing, as it is now. So, like I said, he has the right view of sin to not take it lightly like many Christians unfortunately do.

I will depart from this conversation now because it is a dangerous one to the fragile Christian which at times I consider myself. A few years ago the Lord had dealt me a severe blow and though it has ultimately strengthened my faith, I find myself at times angry at God because of His plan for my life. This struggle I have causes the devil to accuse me and it is a fight enough to battle with him. In my depression, I have found comfort in what Luther once said when he battled depression, "I have been baptised".

It is good to speak with you though and I look forward to conversing with you, though on other threads than this one! Be strong in the Lord and know that it is Jesus alone whom we stand in and provides for us our right relationship with God. It is a blessing to know you, sister.

This is the conversation I have so been looking forward to with you since yesterday. If you lived near me I would have been at your doorstep with coffee at 5 a.m. No joke!

This is such a good thing He has given you to work on and understand! He’s just full of blessings for everyone right now!

There is a key that will help you reconcile what He has given you to work on.

When you say this - It is Christ's righteousness which enables us to be presented before Him blameless. Only should we be in Him are we blameless - there are some things I can say.

And here is the key. You have said, only if we are found IN Him will we be found blameless. Spotless. Without the slightest wrinkle. And that is true. That is the bride. That is the holy. But God also accepts righteous men. He doesn’t only accept holy men. And that’s good for me. It’s very good news for me. If I will be among the righteous among the nations being ruled over by the saints, it’s a very good place to be.

Remain in Me and I in you, are two different things. He is in you by the down payment of His Spirit He gave you when you trusted Him and He will never leave you. Even if you are unfaithful/don’t believe something He’s said/stumble in trust, HE remains faithful and remains in you as He has said He will and continues to grow your trust and change/renew your mind on these things and areas, and by this work in you, you start to remain in trust, remain faithful to Him for longer and longer amounts of time without stumbling in your trust. So you go from Him abiding/remaining in you to you remaining in trust/faithfulness in Him for longer and longer periods of time. And whatever is not of trust is sin. It is to stumble. And a righteous man gets back up every time and begins racing again to trust. You are learning the obedience of trust. He is taking you from trust TO a greater trust. Firm trust like Jesus had. Remain in Me and I in you. Abide in Me and I in you. We are racing to trust. When that trust becomes so great(don’t ask me how great, God knows) He sweeps some of us up into Him and those, who have been led by His Spirit thus far, begin to walk IN the Spirit. And IN Him is no sin.

So, the key is that there’s the righteous AND there are the holy. He is IN the righteous. The holy are also IN Him.
Abide in Me (the holy) and I in you (the righteous).

This key clears up how you can’t quite seem to reconcile it all. Once you fully grasp (and that takes some time) that some of it speaks of righteousness and some of it speaks of holiness, and that God makes a place for both, you begin to see it everywhere in scripture. And you don’t confuse righteousness with holiness. You don’t try to take the righteousness of the righteous from them and make them sad when God doesn’t want them to be sad, and you don’t downgrade or mess with Gods holiness.

Some will still insist they are in Him, walking in the Spirit rather than just being led by the Spirit in the desert of the testing of their trust, but there’s this:
By this we may be sure that we are in him: he who says he abides in him ought to walk in the same way in which he walked.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I took some time away from this thread to ponder God's revelation to us.

@dhh712

It's always good to ponder God's Word.

Psalms 119:15 says:

“I will meditate on Your precepts, ​

And contemplate Your ways.”​

It is Christ's righteousness which enables us to be presented before Him blameless.

I can only imagine you read verses like Colossians 1:21-22 and conclude the wrong thing.

Colossians 1:21-23 says:

21 “And you, that were sometime alienated and enemies in your mind by wicked works, yet now hath he reconciled 22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight: 23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;”​

Notice the condition.

There is an IF in word in verse 23.

You are only unblameable IF...

(a) You continue in the faith grounded and settled, and:​

(b) You be not moved away from the hope of the gospel (Which is believing 1 Corinthians 15:1-4).​

Continuing in the faith is more than just believing in Jesus as your personal Savior.
Hebrews 11 describes faith as both a belief alone (Hebrews 11:3), and it describes faith as in doing what God tells you to do; For example: By faith, Noah prepared an Ark to the saving of his household (See Hebrews 11:7).

In other words, Noah did not do nothing as a part of his faith. If Noah had just believed alone and he did not build an ark, he would have been in unbelief towards God's instructions and he would have perished along with everyone else (if he continued to disbelieve God).

I can also imagine you wrongfully interpret verses like Romans 4:6 that say:

“Even as David also describeth the blessedness of the man, unto whom God imputeth righteousness without works,”​

Yes, This verse is true in what it says. God does indeed impute righteousness without works. But this is only happens in our “Initial Salvation” when we first are saved by God's grace through faith without works. This is the 1st aspect of salvation.

Romans 1:16-17 lets us know that this is a receiving.

16 “For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. 17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.”​

The gospel is the power unto God unto salvation to everyone who believes it. This is Initial Salvation.
The gospel only continues to have power in our lives to save if we are living by faith. The righteousness of God is revealed even in the gospel not only in Christ imputing His righteousness at the beginning of our faith, but the righteousness of God is revealed in the fact that the gospel calls us. According to 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14: This gospel call is....

13 “...God hath from the beginning chosen you to salvation through sanctification of the Spirit and belief of the truth: 14 Whereunto he called you by our gospel,...”​

The Sanctification of the Spirit is to live a holy life. This is a part of our salvation. This is the secondary aspect of our salvation.

Romans 8:13 says,

“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.”​

Galatians 6:8-9 says,

8 “For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting. 9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.”​

Notice the passage above in Galatians. It says in verse 8 that you have to sow to the Spirit to reap everlasting life. In verse 9 it defines what this sowing to the Spirit is. It is... “well doing” (good works). It says we will reap if we faint not in well doing. Reap what? Life everlasting. So it's not just a belief alone in Jesus that will save you. You have to believe the WHOLE counsel of God's Word and not just pick and choose which verses you want to believe in.

(Continued in my next post to you):

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Only should we be in Him are we blameless.

@dhh712

I am wondering if you ever truly read and understood Ephesians 5:25-27 before. Let's read it.

25 “...even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; 26 That he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, 27 That he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”​

Now, YOUR thinking is to be in Christ or to just believe in Him and you are blameless or without blemish. But as we read in this above passage it says that Christ gave Himself for us (the church) that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of the water of the Word (i.e. Scripture) so that Christ might present to himself a church that is without spot, wrinkle, and that it should be holy and without blemish. So if imputed righteousness by just a belief is all it took, then this passage is a fraud according to your viewpoint or odd belief. This is why I cannot take your belief seriously because it is not found in the Bible.

From my understanding of the doctrines of God's word, I still am under the understanding--and like I said, who am I to say that God doesn't make exceptions?--that we will still experience some moral corruption no matter how much God sanctifies us in this life.

Again, you are simply not believing the Bible. Please read Galatians 5:24, 1 Peter 4:1-2, Romans 13:14, 2 Corinthians 7:1. Also read about the 144,000 who were found without fault before the throne of God (Which is in context to their holy conduct) (See: Revelation 14:1-5).

So, firstly, I hope that no believer would understand themselves to be able to be presented blameless before God *without* being in Christ.

Who in this thread has actually made this case? I know I sure didn't. I believe that it is only by Jesus Christ that we can do anything good (John 15:5).

Also, there is no condemnation now for those whom God has saved, to whom he imputed the righteousness of Christ (this from Rom 8:1).

This is false. You did not quote the whole verse as it appears in the Bible that existed for hundreds of years long before the Modern bibles showed up.

Romans 8:1 KJB says,

“There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.”​

So if you are walking after the “flesh” (i.e. sin or being under the 613 Laws of Moses) and you are not walking after the Spirit, then you are under the Condemnation. The condition for having no condemnation in Christ Jesus is walking not after the flesh but after the Spirit. You can read more about the Condemnation in John 3:19-21. It says in verse 20 (as a part of the Condemnation) that all who do evil hate the light. The light is Jesus. So if you sin or you justify sin in some way... you hate the real Jesus of the Bible. It's just that simple. Because Jesus never justified sin (Because Jesus is GOD). Also, how do you have the assurance that you are IN Christ or that you know Him? 1 John 2:3 basically says that we know the LORD if we find that we are keeping His commandments. 1 John 2:4 basically says that the person who says they know the LORD and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them. So if you justify the idea that we can sin you are not keeping His commandments, but you are breaking them... thus you don't know Jesus (if you are for justify sin or the breaking of God's commands). Again, it's just that simple if you believe God's Word plainly.

(Continued in my next post to you):