1 Peter 1:1-2

[Kanuski]

I have a question about 1 Peter 1:1-2. In the NIV, NKJV and NASB and other versions, verse 2 says they were elected or chosen according to the foreknowledge of God? The word elect is not there in the Greek version I saw online. These same translations sometimes remove the word elect from verse 1 where it describes the travelers or sojourners. I don't know Greek so or know much about the manuscripts so maybe there is a reason for this that I don't understand.

 

[marks]

I have a question about 1 Peter 1:1-2. In the NIV, NKJV and NASB and other versions, verse 2 says they were elected or chosen according to the foreknowledge of God? The word elect is not there in the Greek version I saw online. These same translations sometimes remove the word elect from verse 1 where it describes the travelers or sojourners. I don't know Greek so or know much about the manuscripts so maybe there is a reason for this that I don't understand.

https://www.scripture4all.org/OnlineInterlinear/NTpdf/1pe1.pdf

The word appears in verse 1 in this interlinear.

1 Peter 1:1-2
(1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
(2) Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

The King James places it in the beginning of verse 2 to show how they understand it is being used.

Much love!

 

[Kanuski]

I see that and find it very dishonest. Rearranging words changes the meaning. The word in the Greek is in reference to the chosen expatriates. When they use it in verse two it is used in connection with foreknowledge. If chosen is used in connection to the foreknowledge of God it sounds like the expatriates are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. If it is left where it was intended, the verse says that Peter is an apostle according to the foreknowledge of God.
(1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, (to the chosen strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,)
(2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Like I said before, I don't understand Greek, so I don't know if this really works. I do know that moving it, just so that they show it is being used, is changing scripture and is incredibly deceptive.

 

[Deborah_]

I see that and find it very dishonest. Rearranging words changes the meaning. The word in the Greek is in reference to the chosen expatriates. When they use it in verse two it is used in connection with foreknowledge. If chosen is used in connection to the foreknowledge of God it sounds like the expatriates are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God. If it is left where it was intended, the verse says that Peter is an apostle according to the foreknowledge of God.
(1) Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, (to the chosen strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,)
(2) according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Like I said before, I don't understand Greek, so I don't know if this really works. I do know that moving it, just so that they show it is being used, is changing scripture and is incredibly deceptive.

Your interpretation is impossible because the word "chosen" (or "elect") is plural. So it can't possibly be referring to Peter; it has to be referring to the expatriates.

Greek rules for word order are very different from English. It's not unusual to have two words that actually belong together (to our minds) being widely separated in a sentence. In order to make good English, the translators have to change the word order that's not deceptive, it's necessary to make the meaning clear.

 

[Lambano]

Your interpretation is impossible because the word "chosen" (or "elect") is plural. So it can't possibly be referring to Peter; it has to be referring to the expatriates.

Greek rules for word order are very different from English. It's not unusual to have two words that actually belong together (to our minds) being widely separated in a sentence. In order to make good English, the translators have to change the word order that's not deceptive, it's necessary to make the meaning clear.

Another clue: "Elect" and "strangers" are both in the Dative case, which indicates that "elect" modifies "strangers". Also, the Dative case in this context inserts an implied "to" in English (a trick I remember from German classes 50 years ago), indicating that the letter is "to" the elect and "to" the strangers.

I suppose you could parenthesize the clause "according to the foreknowledge of God..." and stuff it between "elect" and "strangers" like this:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect (according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ) strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Sheesh, and I thought German run-on sentences were bad.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Satan and demons plant seeds of doubt about the truth of God's Word and they face eternal judgment in the lake of fire who wants to join them??

 

[Kanuski]

Satan and demons plant seeds of doubt about the truth of God's Word and they face eternal judgment in the lake of fire who wants to join them??

Seriously? What exactly do you think I doubt? I am just asking questions about why a passage was translated a particular way. Every translation is different, so I want to know which one is closest to the original meaning. I know some of them are wrong because they are not all translated in a similar way. I study the Word carefully so as to know the truth. I don't just assume I understand after a cursory reading. What about this tells you that I have doubt?

 

[Kanuski]

Your interpretation is impossible because the word "chosen" (or "elect") is plural. So it can't possibly be referring to Peter; it has to be referring to the expatriates.

Greek rules for word order are very different from English. It's not unusual to have two words that actually belong together (to our minds) being widely separated in a sentence. In order to make good English, the translators have to change the word order that's not deceptive, it's necessary to make the meaning clear.

Thanks. That helps explain why it was translated this way. I hope everyone understands that the translation I suggested was not what I actually think it means. Like I said, I don't know Greek, so I have no translation of my own.

 

[Kanuski]

Another clue: "Elect" and "strangers" are both in the Dative case, which indicates that "elect" modifies "strangers". Also, the Dative case in this context inserts an implied "to" in English (a trick I remember from German classes 50 years ago), indicating that the letter is "to" the elect and "to" the strangers.

I suppose you could parenthesize the clause "according to the foreknowledge of God..." and stuff it between "elect" and "strangers" like this:

Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ, to the elect (according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ) strangers scattered throughout Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

Sheesh, and I thought German run-on sentences were bad.

The apostles were not strangers to run-on sentences.
So, the word 'eklektos' is dative and plural indicating that it is modifying the word 'strangers'. That helps but does not explain it. In my uneducated translation I have it directly modifying the strangers. The major translations, KJV, NIV, NASB, etc. they have it modifying the strangers but add that it was according to foreknowledge. Instead of saying 'elect strangers', they say 'strangers, elect according to foreknowledge'.

 

[Kanuski]

Your interpretation is impossible because the word "chosen" (or "elect") is plural. So it can't possibly be referring to Peter; it has to be referring to the expatriates.

Greek rules for word order are very different from English. It's not unusual to have two words that actually belong together (to our minds) being widely separated in a sentence. In order to make good English, the translators have to change the word order that's not deceptive, it's necessary to make the meaning clear.

I just realized that in my original response, I did not understand my own question properly. I did not suggest that 'elect' modified Peter. I was suggesting that it modified the strangers. That is exactly what you confirmed. I was just wondering why they use it in connection with foreknowledge.

 

[Lambano]

The major translations, KJV, NIV, NASB, etc. they have it modifying the strangers but add that it was according to foreknowledge. Instead of saying 'elect strangers', they say 'strangers, elect according to foreknowledge'.

That is exactly what you confirmed. I was just wondering why they use it in connection with foreknowledge.

That's actually a good point. Does "According to foreknowledge..." modify "elect" or "apostle of Jesus Christ"? I assumed it modifies "elect" because I am influenced by the Calvinist-Arminian debates about election that would come 15 centuries later. (Is election God's foreknowledge of who will and who will not come to trust in Christ?) It is possible that Peter is defending his Apostleship as Paul does in Galatians 1:15, claiming he was called "from his mother's womb"?

Knowing that Peter's reputation of always having been one of Jesus's closest friends, I can't see that Peter would need to claim that his apostleship was foreknown and confirmed by the sprinkling of Christ's blood, but it's a possibility.

 

[CadyandZoe]

That's actually a good point. Does "According to foreknowledge..." modify "elect" or "apostle of Jesus Christ"? I assumed it modifies "elect" because I am influenced by the Calvinist-Arminian debates about election that would come 15 centuries later. (Is election God's foreknowledge of who will and who will not come to trust in Christ?) It is possible that Peter is defending his Apostleship as Paul does in Galatians 1:15, claiming he was called "from his mother's womb"?

Knowing that Peter's reputation of always having been one of Jesus's closest friends, I can't see that Peter would need to claim that his apostleship was foreknown and confirmed by the sprinkling of Christ's blood, but it's a possibility.

The Elect are foreknown.
Sometimes, In the New Testament the term "foreknown" carries the same connotation as the KJV version of Genesis 4:1, "Adam "knew" his wife Eve." Although this euphemistically refers to sexual relations, it also refers to marriage. The Hebrews living in the diaspora formerly had a "marriage" relationship with God. BUT, they are also "foreknown" in another more significant sense. All of the elect in Christ are "foreknown" in the sense that "he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him . . ." Ephesians 1:4

 

[Lambano]

BUT, they are also "foreknown" in another more significant sense. All of the elect in Christ are "foreknown" in the sense that "he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him . . ." Ephesians 1:4

See also Romans 8:29-30.

29 For those whom He foreknew, He also predestined to become conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters; 30 and these whom He predestined, He also called; and these whom He called, He also justified; and these whom He justified, He also glorified.

 

[GISMYS_7]

Best keep your doubts to yourself!! Who wants to help satan

 

[Kanuski]

Thanks, everyone. It sounds like the verse is interpreted this way because the words, 'Eklektois' and 'prognōsin', have been used this way in other places in scripture.

The Elect are foreknown.
Sometimes, In the New Testament the term "foreknown" carries the same connotation as the KJV version of Genesis 4:1, "Adam "knew" his wife Eve." Although this euphemistically refers to sexual relations, it also refers to marriage. The Hebrews living in the diaspora formerly had a "marriage" relationship with God. BUT, they are also "foreknown" in another more significant sense. All of the elect in Christ are "foreknown" in the sense that "he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him . . ." Ephesians 1:4

Best keep your doubts to yourself!! Who wants to help satan

I don't doubt God. Man is another story.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

@Kanuski
Welcome to the boards.

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Best keep your doubts to yourself!! Who wants to help satan

James 5:16
Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much.

Whatever has happened to your joy ?
Do you pray when someone speaks something to your dislike or just rail and use the word as a sword to wound?

If this RAPTURE MINDEDNESS has you so unlike Christ, then I'll say a prayer for recovery !

 

[L.A.M.B.]

Thanks, everyone. It sounds like the verse is interpreted this way because the words, 'Eklektois' and 'prognōsin', have been used this way in other places in scripture.



I don't doubt God. Man is another story.

Do not be perplexed by the condemnation of others for Jesus came not to condemn, but bring righteousness to man.

Move past these kinds, into joy of discussing the word and growing thereby. Be blessed and a blessing !