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Featured 2. Could Pharaoh Have Repented?

Discussion in 'Christian Debate Forum' started by "ByGrace", Apr 14, 2019.

  1. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    1 million plus in the wilderness visibly witnessing literal miracles of God, oceans parted food falling from the sky, rocks yielded water, serpents biting, yet none had the power to believe. Many still on this forum-insist that man has the power to believe. If that had been the case I believe the parting of the sea would’ve been enough.
    God is all sovereign.
     
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  2. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    John 12:32
    [32] And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
     
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  3. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Quite the opposite. God was deliberately given Pharaoh every opportunity to repent. Even while we are told that God is hardening his heart, we see that Pharaoh himself is hardening his heart. And here is the proof that he could have repented even at a late stage.

    And Pharaoh sent, and called for Moses and Aaron, and said unto them, I have sinned this time: the LORD is righteous, and I and my people are wicked. (Exod 9:27)

    The next step would have been for him to repent. Instead he followed this principle: And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. (John 3:19,20)
     
  4. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Romans 8:20-23
    [20] For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God. [22] For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now. [23] And not only they , but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, to wit , the redemption of our body.

    Maybe the weakness is in assuming God fails, He who had a plan from and “they knew they were naked” and “For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope,”
     
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  5. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Mark 10:26-27
    [26] And they were astonished out of measure, saying among themselves, Who then can be saved? [27] And Jesus looking upon them saith, With men it is impossible, but not with God: for with God all things are possible.

    2 Timothy 2:25
    [25] In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;
     
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  6. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    That makes good godly sense to me. Thank you. I've never really had that one settled in me.

    I like your - "But Pharaoh always had freewill, and had he been a better man he would never have been chosen for this job to begin with "
    Same with Judas?

    I still don't have him settled yet.
    But I have to watch that, because that takes me all the way to Satan!!
    "Someone" was destined to be the Accuser. the Tempter , the Liar. Someone had to be the Tool to trip up sharpen Gods people...

    So I have to watch myself, because one does think...If God "placed the Serpent in the tree" to do his job...how then can he be judged for doing what his job is!! That gets me thinking too deeply..yikes!!

    Bless you Chris.. H
     
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  7. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I would have to say yes He did...back before time began, He knew man would fall, and He already had the answer..."The Great Creator became our Saviour and all God's fullness dwelth in Him"
    He was our saviour before the world began ..it says so.

    It also says ( Satan, being the prince of the power of the air Eph 2, and prince over this world..)

    Satan had no idea what he was doing when he crucified the Lord of glory!
    He did not take Jesus's life, Jesus laid down His life...

    I Cor 2
    7 "But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
    Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. "
     
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  8. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. :)

    Then as I was just posting to @Waiting on him
    Looks like it is both.

    At the cross Satan's will was done...but not with the outcome he expected.
    At the cross God's divine will was done..according to the outworking of His Plan.

    ( I'm glad that you are back :) )
     
  9. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Interesting. Wondered if he (Satan)has a will...guess he does? Isaiah 14:12-16
    [12] How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! [13] For thou hast said in thine heart, I will ascend into heaven, I will exalt my throne above the stars of God: I will sit also upon the mount of the congregation, in the sides of the north: [14] I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High. [15] Yet thou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit. [16] They that see thee shall narrowly look upon thee, and consider thee, saying, Is this the man that made the earth to tremble, that did shake kingdoms;

    ....o_O
     
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  10. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I noted you last underlined comment.
    I have pondered that one too. "people" say that Lucifer is Satan..I am not convinced .. but whenever I have posted otherwise, I get shouted down :D
     
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  11. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Praise God I never caught that Paul says both groups groan the believer and the unbeliever.
     
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  12. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    Belief is definitely a gift of God.
     
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  13. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    I remember the night after I became born again...I was so overawed I kept saying to the Lord, why me? ( our dad had always prayed for us to get saved, so I guess he 'prayed us into the kingdom')
     
  14. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    That is NOT what the passage is saying. It is speaking about God's creation which has come under a curse because of sin, and desires to be released from that curse. That will happen only when the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.
     
  15. Enoch111

    Enoch111 Well-Known Member

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    Which is the only appropriate response.;)
     
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  16. Waiting on him

    Waiting on him Well-Known Member

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    [23] And not onlythey , but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit,
     
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  17. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    The gospel of John pretty much tells us that Judas went to hell. Jesus, in His High Priestly prayer in John 17 calls Judas, "the son of destruction" and every time Judas' name is mentioned it is in a negative context. Peter betrayed Jesus, but he went to heaven--Judas betrayed Jesus and went to hell. What is the difference? Peter loved Jesus and definitely believed in Him, but was afraid to acknowledge Him publicly for fear of reprisals--a very human failing. Judas was not a compassionate man (John says that Judas did not care for the poor) and apparently did not love Jesus. Perhaps he was envious of Jesus in the way that Cain was envious of his innocent brother, Abel. There was a spiritual sickness in Judas--he voluntarily betrayed Jesus for a monetary reward--"the love of money is the root of all kinds of evil". Why did Judas attempt to give the money back? Probably because he was being hounded by Satan--from within (the gospel of John tells us that Satan went into Judas in 13:27). Satan is like that--he tempts his victims to sin and then he turns around and accuses them.
     
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  18. Lady Crosstalk

    Lady Crosstalk Well-Known Member

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    We all seem to learn to harden our hearts away from the innocence of being a young child--I think it likely that Jesus said that we must come to God like a trusting child for that reason. We can become more and more hard and bitter as we travel through life and, eventually, the hardening reaches a point of no return.
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2019
  19. VictoryinJesus

    VictoryinJesus Well-Known Member

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    Have to wonder why if Lucifer is satan and the word says they that look upon him and say “Is this the man that made the earth tremble, that did shake kingdoms” ...it would at least raise some questions. Seems question’s are a big No-No. Like you...not convinced.
     
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  20. "ByGrace"

    "ByGrace" Well-Known Member

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    Agree, and that is another discussion for another day! LOL
    It brings out the hornets ..so many are so dead sure that they know everything. :p
     
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