2 Things to : "study to show yourself approved"

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,562
7,587
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
So you think that God grabs you by the hair and shoves the Holy Spirit into you, by force?

C'mon fella. Get off the hobby horse. Christianity is not a hobby. Theology is not a farce.
Your responses are both.

Listen,

Everyone who is born again, chose it.
Everyone who is born again HEARD the message of the Cross, and DECIDED what they will do.
"faith come by HEARING"......and you make a CHOICE.

Next Sunday morning, all over the world, Pastors are giving an "invitation", an "alter call", and the Holy Spirit is Drawing hearts to the Truth of the Gospel of Christ.
The choice is to believe or to ignore, or to resist, but its a choice, every time someone becomes a BELIEVER... or not.
If you die having not CHOSEN to BELIEVE in Jesus and be born again, God will judge you for your REJECTION of Christ.
Thats a CHOICE you made on earth and God will honor your CHOICE after you die, for as long as God LIVES.
Believe it.

Jesus said..."if i be lifted up (on the Cross) i will DRAW ALL men to me"..

The "drawing" is the Holy Spirit revealing the truth..... John 14:6, when the Gospel is preached or shared.
People hear it, and are touched by the Holy Spirit, and Christ is revealed, and they make a choice.
God will honor that choice NOW< and forever.
I suppose you had a lot of say when your mother birthed you? You gave her the date, the time and decided all on your own to start breathing air......or was that forced on you?
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,562
7,587
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Read the scriptures and stop playing the fool.

43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day. 45 It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.’ Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me. John 6:43-45
See, I've put the relevant phrase in great big print so even someone with eyes as old as mine can see it.
Now, the verse doesn't say draws by the hair, but it could have and still be saying effectively the same thing.
Believe the scripture. STOP denying the word of our Lord.

David wrote under the power of the Holy Spirit:
The Lord looks down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there are any who understand, who seek God. They have all turned aside, They have together become corrupt; There is none who does good,
No, not one. Psalm 14:2-3

So, are you claiming to be the exception?

10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:10-13
Was the Apostle John mistaken? Are you planning on correcting him at the judgment? Or are you implying that you are neither flesh or man, but God Himself?
and the Father draws all
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
43 Jesus therefore answered and said to them, “Do not murmur among yourselves. 44 No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him


If i only "read" the scriptures, i would be like you.
So, instead i'll spiritually discern them, as God has instructed the born again, to do.

Also you feel if you shout using large type, this proves you are smart and correct?
Guess again, michaelvpardo.
It only proves that the fools like to yell online.

Notice this now..

Jesus said.... "If i be lifted up, I will draw all men to me".

Now, why did Jesus say, "my father Draws".....and "I draw".

Its because in both cases its the same Holy Spirit that convicts the world of sin, and sinners of their need to be saved.
So, the Father, and the Son, are "ONE" Jesus says.... which means that if the Father "draws' or the Son "draws", its always the same meaning.
 
  • Like
Reactions: michaelvpardo

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
I suppose you had a lot of say when your mother birthed you? You gave her the date, the time and decided all on your own to start breathing air......or was that forced on you?

What you said makes no sense.
Try again.
Take your time., and think before you speak, next time.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Now,
Its a good time to again talk about the Thread's Topic.

1. There are no born again in Hell.

2. There are no Christ rejectors in Heaven.

Why?

Well, in the case of the born again...... their Spirit, our Spirit, my Spirit, is already in Heaven, "One with God".
So, by being in Spiritual Union with God, and Christ...>(born again), there is no changing this, as it is caused by God and God keeps what He allows into His own Spirit. (born again).

Jesus said...>I will never leave you or forsake you.......if you are born again, and how could He, when HE has joined Himself, eternally, in spiritual union with a person's spirit.
This is why Jesus tells the born again..>"and you shall never perish"... and you "have eternal life"..... You have it, if you are born again.
And how? Because Jesus Himself is Eternal Life, and all the born again are joined to Jesus, Spiritually,...having been birthed into the Spirit of God, by the Spirit of God.. (Born again).

In the case of the unbelievers, who die and will face Judgement. John 3:36
Well, they were not willing to allow God to remove the eternal barrier between themselves and God.
They died in their SIN,... John 8:24.... and Sin, unforgiven, is THE eternal barrier between God and a person, as it does not allow God to have Spiritual Union with them, so, in this case, they end up where you end up if you die unforgiven, as a Christ Rejector. = Hell, then the Lake of Fire.

Now, heresy, heretics, will tell you that the city water supply will wash your sin away.
So, if that is true, then everyone is born again, sinless, when they take a shower or a bath....
Ridiculous "water cult" Theology isn't it?
Yet they will break their back trying to prove that "water" "is necessary for salvation"..while the Dying Thief on the Cross, who is in Heaven right now, says to them...>"oh really?..."really".

And Paul the Apostle says to them...>"Christ sent me NOT to water baptize"....
 
Last edited:

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
and the Father draws all
Where is choice in that?
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:10-13
Verses 12 and 13 here are saying that those who are born again of the will of God believe Him, not that those who choose to believe Him are born again. At least that's what it's saying in English despite the reversed phrasing.
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,562
7,587
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Where is choice in that?
10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: 13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. John 1:10-13
Verses 12 and 13 here are saying that those who are born again of the will of God believe Him, not that those who choose to believe Him are born again. At least that's what it's saying in English despite the reversed phrasing.
in the willingness to respond or the choice to turn away
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Your theology is way off. You have no concept the human spirit.

You already stated all this before.
So, do you have anything else, or do you just want to cut and paste the same nonsense?

Listen, im here to answer questions, sent by sincere people.
If you can be one of those, we can dialog.
But not till then.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
in the willingness to respond or the choice to turn away

Lets look at something.. Reader.

Most people, including most believers, falsely think and believe........>"God sends some to hell".
But that is acutally not the case.
Why?
Well, its like this.......

Heaven.....is a eternal destination.
Hell....is a eternal destination.
They are both waiting for you, after you die.

So, a person decides, to end up there.......one or the other, based on....>"What did you do with Jesus, while you were ALIVE".
See that?
So, if you decided to REJECT CHRIST< all your life, and are never born again and DIE....= then you have chosen HELL as your eternal destination, followed by the Lake of Fire.
You chose it....YOU CHOSE this eternal destination by rejecting Christ while you were BREATHING, and God is going to let you go....where you chose to END UP, after you die.
He is not sending anyone to hell.....He is only honoring the choice they made, while they were alive.

And so it is with Heaven.
WE can all go to Heaven....but we have to obey the ONLY WAY to get there.....and Jesus is the ONLY WAY, and there is no other.

Not water.
Not works
Not church membership
Not mary, the pope, billy graham, or feeding orphans in India for 60 yrs.

Jesus said, you "MUST BE BORN AGAIN"< and that is the only WAY...... its through HIM, and that is a Spiritual BIRTH. John 14:6.

See, to be born again, means that the Blood of Jesus has taken care of all your sin, and its your sin that has to be resolved while you are alive, or you will not be allowed into Heaven.
This is the "preaching of the Cross"......which is to tell people that the Blood of God, and Christ on the Cross has been shed for them...
COME and become CLEAN.
COME and become CLEAN.
Come and let God clean you, and make you righteous with the Blood of Jesus.
This is the "preaching of the Cross".... 1st Corinthians 1:23
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,562
7,587
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
You already stated all this before.
So, do you have anything else, or do you just want to cut and paste the same nonsense?

Listen, im here to answer questions, sent by sincere people.
If you can be one of those, we can dialog.
But not till then.
I wonder why the identification with the older brother eclipses that of the Father?
 

quietthinker

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2018
11,562
7,587
113
FNQ
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Lets look at something.. Reader.

Most people, including most believers, falsely think and believe........>"God sends some to hell".
But that is acutally not the case.
Why?
Well, its like this.......

Heaven.....is a eternal destination.
Hell....is a eternal destination.
They are both waiting for you, after you die.

So, a person decides, to end up there.......one or the other, based on....>"What did you do with Jesus, while you were ALIVE".
See that?
So, if you decided to REJECT CHRIST< all your life, and are never born again and DIE....= then you have chosen HELL as your eternal destination, followed by the Lake of Fire.
You chose it....YOU CHOSE this eternal destination by rejecting Christ while you were BREATHING, and God is going to let you go....where you chose to END UP, after you die.
He is not sending anyone to hell.....He is only honoring the choice they made, while they were alive.

And so it is with Heaven.
WE can all go to Heaven....but we have to obey the ONLY WAY to get there.....and Jesus is the ONLY WAY, and there is no other.

Not water.
Not works
Not church membership
Not mary, the pope, billy graham, or feeding orphans in India for 60 yrs.

Jesus said, you "MUST BE BORN AGAIN"< and that is the only WAY...... its through HIM, and that is a Spiritual BIRTH. John 14:6.

See, to be born again, means that the Blood of Jesus has taken care of all your sin, and its your sin that has to be resolved while you are alive, or you will not be allowed into Heaven.
This is the "preaching of the Cross"......which is to tell people that the Blood of God, and Christ on the Cross has been shed for them...
COME and become CLEAN.
COME and become CLEAN.
Come and let God clean you, and make you righteous with the Blood of Jesus.
This is the "preaching of the Cross".... 1st Corinthians 1:23
what I'm hearing is a broken record stuck at the introduction.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
in the willingness to respond or the choice to turn away
That's exactly my point, the willingness to respond comes from God, not from us. That's what is being taught in John 1 :10-13, though the phrasing can trip up your brain, especially when you believe that you've assisted God by cooperating somehow. The passage says what it says and this is what reformers have been teaching for centuries (the Catholics didn't teach these verses at all until reformers started proclaiming a gospel in alignment with their 5 solas.
Paul taught the same thing in the Epistles but more explicitly.
13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure. Philippians 2:13
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
That's exactly my point, the willingness to respond comes from God,.

What you are stating is that God causes us to respond, as if we are dumb, brainless, puppets, with no FREE WILL.

So, you are trying to prove that there is no "free will", which is the theology of a Hyper-Calvinist.

Listen...If there is no free will, then God can't judge you for rejecting Christ after you die.,.....as in that case, you had no choice.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
what! you don't know the story? ....here you are Luke 15:11-32

You wrote..>"I wonder why the identification with the older brother, eclipses that of the father.

So, what you wrote makes no sense.
See, you didn't state who is doing the identification.

And now you posted the Prodigal Son parable, and it does not connect with your statement.

So, are you the one who identifies with the older brother?
Is it your sister that identifies with the older brother?
Is it your mother?

quietthinker........You have to be CLEAR, and not just vague, obtuse, and diffident.
Please start.
 

michaelvpardo

Well-Known Member
Feb 26, 2011
4,204
1,734
113
67
East Stroudsburg, PA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What you are stating is that God causes us to respond, as if we are dumb, brainless, puppets, with no FREE WILL.

So, you are trying to prove that there is no "free will", which is the theology of a Hyper-Calvinist.

Listen...If there is no free will, then God can't judge you for rejecting Christ after you die.,.....as in that case, you had no choice.
Yes I am. That's what Jesus taught indirectly and Paul taught explicitly. It's called the doctrine of election and was taught by the Apostle Paul.
Why are you trying to teach something about being born again when you don't even understand how that happens ?
BTW, No one rejects christ after they die,
John 1:10-13 teaches explicitly that those who believe have been born again by the will of God, not of the will of man. They believe because they are born again, they are not born again because they believe. Read the passage again, slowly and parse it properly.
 

Behold

Well-Known Member
Apr 11, 2020
15,224
6,250
113
Netanya or Pensacola
Faith
Christian
Country
Israel
Yes I am. ,

Yes, you are a hyper-calvinist.... I know.
I can hear it in your theology.
This is why you blame God for what the Devil causes, and can't hear the NT.
This is why you believe you must work your way to heaven, and have no faith that Jesus saves and keeps you saved.
That is how your broken faith functions as a ruined discipleship, and that is how your broken faith reveals itself in your "gospel" that you preach. Galatians 1:8
 
Last edited: