22 major reasons to abandon the Premil doctrine

[WPM]

What are you raving about?
I simply said Paul did not use the word homosexual in Romans 1. But we all know that he is talking about them.
In the same way,scripture doesn't use the word rapture,but yhe meaning is there.
Try to keep up.

That is the weakest argument yet for a Pretrib rapture.

 

[WPM]

Where does scripture say Satan is Lucifer? No where. But you probably believe it. What do you base it on. Give ma e a verse that comes right out and says.....


Tell me where in scripture does it sa Satan is Lucifer. Show one verse where it states that word for word. You cant. But do you believe they are the same?

It is obvious: you admit that your view cannot be found in the Bible.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Context my boy....

Don't ever call me "my boy" again. Unless you want me to put you on my ignore list. Up to you.

8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.

9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up....


2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,

3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired,...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

LOL. Did you not read what I said about this? There is no direct relationship between 2 Peter 3:8-10 and Revelation 20:1-7 and I explained that. You tried criticizing me for not explaining scripture line by line and what do you do? Just quote the scriptures with no explanation for why they supposedly support your claims. What a joke.

 

[St. Joseph]

It is obvious: you admit that your view cannot be found in the Bible.

You're evading. Same challenge you threw at me is now in your court.
Are you agreeing that it doesnt have to actually say it to imply it?

Does scripture say Satan is Lucifer or not? Simple question.

 

[WPM]

You're evading. Same challenge you threw at me is now in your court.
Are you agreeing that it doesnt have to actually say it to imply it?

Does scripture say Satan is Lucifer or not? Simple question.

No one denies the reality of the catching away. Where does it say that it is followed by a 7 years tribulation followed by a 3rd coming?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Chapter 12 is a description of the nation of Israel via describing Jesus' people.

Do you think the woman is Mary or Israel?

LOL. You're always trying to change the subject instead of addressing the points that have been made. Hilarious.

Tell me, does what is described in Revelation 12, which includes a description of the birth and ascension of Jesus, follow what is described at the end of Revelation 11, which is the seventh trumpet? Yes or no?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

LOL. You have to be joking! You have a brass neck. Look in the mirror. I've never seen anybody who fails to do what they are lecturing others to do more than you. This is total hypocrisy. Take your own advice. Stop your evasive one-liners. Observers will see the deceit of your statement. They can follow your avoidance.

No kidding. What a hypocrite. He not only never explains scripture line by line but he rarely references scripture at all to back up his claims. What a joke.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

All of your sins remain.

They have not been remitted.

You cannot believe away the remission of your sins.

You know deep down how to fix yourself.

Okay, you have now stepped way over the line. I'm done with you.

Matthew 7:1 “Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

 

[Truther]

Where does it say that this is on earth? You keep avoiding that. This is talking about the throne of God in heaven now.

...reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth,...

 

[Truther]

Many claim Jesus will literally return and rule "On This Earth" In A Millennium this being false in deception

Jesus warned his followers against this teaching, Jesus wont be found anywhere upon this earth as many claim

The Antichrist will be in Jerusalem, claiming to be Messiah Returned, "Beware"!

"Believe It Not" "Go Not Forth"

Matthew 24:23-27KJV
23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.
24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
25 Behold, I have told you before.
26 Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.

Revelation 13:13-14KJV
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Revelation 19:20KJV
20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Boy, you are way out of context.

 

[St. Joseph]

No one denies the reality of the catching away. Where does it say that it is followed by a 7 years tribulation followed by a 3rd coming?

No one denies the reality of the catching away. Where does it say that it is followed by a 7 years tribulation followed by a 3rd coming?

The thousand years is used 6 times in 6 verses in Revelation. You tell me what is it talking about. I would like to know what it means.

 

[Truther]

When and where had these martyred saints lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years? Also, when and where shall the blessed and holy that hath part in the first resurrection, overcome the second death, shall be priests of God and of Christ and reign with Him a thousand years?

The martyred saints of vs 4 is written of that which was past tense when John wrote this. But those of vs 6 are written as that which has not yet happened but shall in the future.

Most almost unanimously agree that "a thousand years" equates to TIME. Most almost unanimously agree that TIME occurs during this age of the earth and agree the age to come shall be eternal. This proves a thousand years that equate to TIME is symbolic of time for which the Gospel is sent unto all the nations of the world so the spiritual Kingdom of God can be complete as Gentiles of faith enter into the Kingdom with Jews of faith. Together they are "Israel of God".

Your argument that Christ shall reign on this earth and His saints with Him for ONE thousand literal years falls flat! How can those who have already given their lives for Christ who have lived with Him a thousand years, and others too shall reign with Him for a thousand years be literal since it is NOT consecutive time?

I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth

 

[Truther]

How is this a relevant question to the OP?

Because it is related to prophecy doctrine.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

You are so full of yourself!

He really is. And for no good reason. He clearly has no spiritual discernment whatsoever.

 

[Truther]

Certainly. But He shares.

2 Peter 1:4
Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these ye might be partakers of the divine nature, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust.

That's no smidgin.

Quit denigrating Christ and elevating Satan.

Satan was defeated at Calvary, whether you think so or not.

The future fulfilled promise to the father towards their descendants are indeed future.

We have been included in them.

They however, are not fully implemented, as you are using partial gifts and are limited to seeing through a glass darkly.

But, if you want to pretend that you have it all and all the prophecies of Christs reign are given to you, go ahead....as you pray for many unhealed etc., folks over and over again.

 

[Truther]

LOL. That makes you a false teacher then since you never give a line by line explanation. I, however, have done that MANY times. Just ask others her like WPM or jeffweeder and they will confirm that for you.

I post mass verses with one line or two of comment, tops.

You post various verses and add mass commentary as an "exegesis"...LOL

 

[Truther]

Don't ever call me "my boy" again. Unless you want me to put you on my ignore list. Up to you.


LOL. Did you not read what I said about this? There is no direct relationship between 2 Peter 3:8-10 and Revelation 20:1-7 and I explained that. You tried criticizing me for not explaining scripture line by line and what do you do? Just quote the scriptures with no explanation for why they supposedly support your claims. What a joke.

No relation here?...

11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them....

10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

And pnce again i dont read novels. Just tell me in a short paragraph. You say i only parrot what im taught. Thats true. Because i believe it to be true. I used to teach against the rapture,but it is so clear now. Why are you scares to hear an opposing view. You just parrot what you were taught as well. By Arnold Murray

What he posted would be equivalent to only about 2 pages in a novel and you're calling it a novel? This is the problem with many people nowadays. They have no attention spans, so they are unable to learn anything.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

Its all through old testament. You cant understand revelation without old testament background. Download it

So, you are incapable of backing up your view with scripture? Why are you posting here if you can't back up anything you're saying? Just saying to read the Old Testament is not enough. Show us where the Old Testament supposedly teaches what you are claiming.

 

[Truther]

LOL. You're always trying to change the subject instead of addressing the points that have been made. Hilarious.

Tell me, does what is described in Revelation 12, which includes a description of the birth and ascension of Jesus, follow what is described at the end of Revelation 11, which is the seventh trumpet? Yes or no?

Sure...


11 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of God, and the altar, and them that worship therein.
2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.
3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.
4 These are the two olive trees, and the two candlesticks standing before the God of the earth.
5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.
6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood, and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.
7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our Lord was crucified.
9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.
10 And they that dwell upon the earth shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.
11 And after three days and an half the spirit of life from God entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.
12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.
13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to the God of heaven.
14 The second woe is past; and, behold, the third woe cometh quickly.
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

.....the chapter is concerning the slaying of the prophets in Jerusalem.



12 And there appeared a great wonder in heaven; a woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and upon her head a crown of twelve stars:
2 And she being with child cried, travailing in birth, and pained to be delivered.
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
5 And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and to his throne.
6 And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she hath a place prepared of God, that they should feed her there a thousand two hundred and threescore days.
7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,
8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.
9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.
10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.
11 And they overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony; and they loved not their lives unto the death.
12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.
13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.
14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.
15 And the serpent cast out of his mouth water as a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away of the flood.
16 And the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened her mouth, and swallowed up the flood which the dragon cast out of his mouth.
17 And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.



....the chapter is concerning the attack of satan on God's promise of the father's, to make God a liar if possible.



The event in chapter 11 precedes the event in chapter 12.