23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[WPM]

No premils are anal about comparing SCripture with Scripture because we use the literal/historical/grammatical hermeneutic.

Please list some of these numerous passages that supposedly contradict accepting REv. 20 as written.

Not true. Let's put your claims to the test. If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?

 

[WPM]

Well you twit what God says so what is sauce for the goose.............

If you do not accept Gods Word as written, why should I accept your words as written???? I see your words as allegorical and symbolic.

It is you that does not take God's Word serious. Let us put another lie of yours to the test. After this, i have loads more. Or, will you run and hide as most Premils do when their duplicity on maters like this is exposed?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

1. Do you literally believe Christ is coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
2. Do you literally believe the wicked will experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
3. Do you literally believe the wicked "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
4. Do you literally believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
5. Do you literally believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
6. Do you literally believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
7. Do you literally believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
8. Do you literally believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

 

[WPM]

No premils are anal about comparing SCripture with Scripture because we use the literal/historical/grammatical hermeneutic.

Please list some of these numerous passages that supposedly contradict accepting REv. 20 as written.

Let's put your claims to the test. If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Not true. Let's put your claims to the test. If I am wrong, please provide me with clear corroboration for these main tenets:

1. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that there are two distinct physical resurrection days (the first for the righteous, the second for the wicked) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
2. Where in Scripture does it mention "resurrection days" (plural), pertaining to the end?
3. What Scripture (including Revelation 20) do you consider definitely teaches there are two distinct future judgement days (that will see all mankind stand before Christ to give account for their lives) separated by a literal 1000 years+?
4. Where in Scripture does it mention "judgement days" (plural), in regard to the end?
5. What Scripture, if any, do you consider definitely corroborates the Premillennial interpretation of Revelation 20 that Satan will be bound for a time-span of 1000 years after the Second Advent, then released for a "little season" to deceive the nations, and then destroy them?

Unfair- it is your composed test.

1. Rev. 20 can stand on its own.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

God is not a sloppy grammaticIan.

Verse 6 the rest of the dead refers back to the fact that the dead of verse 5 were resurrected and God through John called this the first resurrection.

You r explanation of this resurrection being Jesus is just nonsense for this passage.

2. YOu start with faulty reasoning on this and end with a faulty conclusion. REv. 20 is a specific unique resurrection. It is for only a specified group to reign with Jesus. Dead Christians rise at the rapture and the OT and trib saints rise after.

3. I do not believe there are two end time judgments- there is only the Great white throne judgment.
there is the bema seat judgment that occurs in heaven after the rapture for the saved- but that is different.

4. There is no judgment days. Rev. 20 says nothing about the 144,000 being judged at thew great white throne- that is presumptuousness on your part.

5. What Scripture? Rev. 20 itself. Are you rejecting this literal declaration because it doesn't have 20 corroborating verses? One verse on a subject should be enough if it is in teh Inspired Word of God!

Revelation 20

King James Version

​

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That really should be enough!

Teh passage "Jesus wept" only appears once in teh Bible. Maybe He didn't weep because it can't be backed up by other Scriptures according to your reasoning.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

It is you that does not take God's Word serious. Let us put another lie of yours to the test. After this, i have loads more. Or, will you run and hide as most Premils do when their duplicity on maters like this is exposed?

1 Thessalonians 4:15-5:3 confirms this saying: “we which are alive and remain unto the coming [Gr. parousia] of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words. But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

2 Peter 3:3-13 couldn't be clearer: “Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, And saying, Where is the promise of his coming [Gr. parousia]? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation. For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

1. Do you literally believe Christ is coming suddenly and unexpectedly "as a thief in the night" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:2 and 2 Peter 3:10)?
2. Do you literally believe the wicked will experience "sudden destruction" from His appearance as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
3. Do you literally believe the wicked "shall not escape" as the Bible says (1 Thessalonians 5:3)?
4. Do you literally believe that "the heavens shall pass away with a great noise" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
5. Do you literally believe that "the elements shall melt with fervent heat" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10 & 12)?
6. Do you literally believe that "the earth also ... shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
7. Do you literally believe that "the works that are therein [the earth] shall be burned up" when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:10)?
8. Do you literally believe that the righteous are actually looking "for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness” when He returns as a thief as the Bible says (2 Peter 3:13)?

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. You misinterpret the passage so NO.
5. You misinterpret this as well so NO.
6. You misinterpret this as well so no.
7. " " " " " " "
8. " " " " " " "

Free hermeneutic and grammar lesson.

Thesselonians is the rapture and not the return of the Lord. Paruosia literally means a presence or a nearness. In thess. Jesus does not return to the earth as it is written so it is not His second coming! Return is "strepho"

Also there is a difference between the Paruosia of the Lord in thess. and the DAY OF THE LORD One is about jesus, the other is about an event.

So yes the rapture will happen like a thief in the night! Jesus' physical return to earth will be known globally and everyone will know!

The onset of the 70th week of Daniel will happen like a thief in the night. As Paul said:

1 Thessalonians 5

King James Version

​

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

While I can't say absolutely, I believe based on Scripture, that because the antichrist wows and deceives the world and is a master military tactician, He will bring order out of the chaos and people will believe peace and safety has arrived- what the world does not realize is that When teh antichrist signs the covenant with Israel- all hell will break loose not peace and safety.

Also when Jesus returns- the world knows- the antichrist gathers the armies of the world at the Valley of Jezreel (Armageddon) to battle the Lord- that is not a thief in the night.

YOu need to read more carefully.

 

[WPM]

Unfair- it is your composed test.

1. Rev. 20 can stand on its own.

4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

God is not a sloppy grammaticIan.

Verse 6 the rest of the dead refers back to the fact that the dead of verse 5 were resurrected and God through John called this the first resurrection.

You r explanation of this resurrection being Jesus is just nonsense for this passage.

2. YOu start with faulty reasoning on this and end with a faulty conclusion. REv. 20 is a specific unique resurrection. It is for only a specified group to reign with Jesus. Dead Christians rise at the rapture and the OT and trib saints rise after.

3. I do not believe there are two end time judgments- there is only the Great white throne judgment.
there is the bema seat judgment that occurs in heaven after the rapture for the saved- but that is different.

4. There is no judgment days. Rev. 20 says nothing about the 144,000 being judged at thew great white throne- that is presumptuousness on your part.

5. What Scripture? Rev. 20 itself. Are you rejecting this literal declaration because it doesn't have 20 corroborating verses? One verse on a subject should be enough if it is in teh Inspired Word of God!

Revelation 20​

​

King James Version​

​

​

20 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
8 And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.
9 And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.
10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

That really should be enough!

Teh passage "Jesus wept" only appears once in teh Bible. Maybe He didn't weep because it can't be backed up by other Scriptures according to your reasoning.

LOL. You just confirmed my thesis (and that of Amils): Premil is a private interpretation. It has zero corroboration anywhere else in Scripture, despite your previous boasts to the contrary. I said I would prove your claims to be lies and you confirmed it. But will you say sorry for your misleading statments? Not likely. That would require honesty and humility.

We are not talking about a passing biblical detail that is buried in amongst a greater amount of facts that does not affect anyone's theology. Remember, we are talking about the so-called greatest age outside of the NHNE and you have no other support amongst the OT prophets, Jesus and the NT writers. That alone is enough to reject this false interpretation.

Corroboration is therefore rejected by Premil as irrelevant or unnecessary for their theology. Yet, it is one of the crucial basic and elementary tenets in biblical interpretation. A non- corroborative doctrine is a false doctrine.

Premils have to ignore or dismiss countless solid climactic Scriptures in order to let Premil fit. This is unacceptable in my opinion. The question that has not been answered here from the Op is, what is the purpose for a future millennium? Many of us would like to know the answer to this.

One of the main reasons I first questioned Premil was that no other NT writer mentions a literal 1,000 following the coming of Christ. If this is supposed to be what Premils suggest - namely the greatest age outside of the new heavens and new earth - then why did none of the other writers allude to it? We don't have one single second coming passage that indicates that there will be 1000 years following.

 

[WPM]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. You misinterpret the passage so NO.
5. You misinterpret this as well so NO.
6. You misinterpret this as well so no.
7. " " " " " " "
8. " " " " " " "

Free hermeneutic and grammar lesson.

Thesselonians is the rapture and not the return of the Lord. Paruosia literally means a presence or a nearness. In thess. Jesus does not return to the earth as it is written so it is not His second coming! Return is "strepho"

Also there is a difference between the Paruosia of the Lord in thess. and the DAY OF THE LORD One is about jesus, the other is about an event.

So yes the rapture will happen like a thief in the night! Jesus' physical return to earth will be known globally and everyone will know!

The onset of the 70th week of Daniel will happen like a thief in the night. As Paul said:

1 Thessalonians 5​

​

King James Version​

​

​

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

While I can't say absolutely, I believe based on Scripture, that because the antichrist wows and deceives the world and is a master military tactician, He will bring order out of the chaos and people will believe peace and safety has arrived- what the world does not realize is that When teh antichrist signs the covenant with Israel- all hell will break loose not peace and safety.

Also when Jesus returns- the world knows- the antichrist gathers the armies of the world at the Valley of Jezreel (Armageddon) to battle the Lord- that is not a thief in the night.

YOu need to read more carefully.

Here you go again: you promote your own personal beliefs without showing anywhere in Scripture that teaches 2 future comings. That is because you have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. If you had it, you would give it.

 

[WPM]

1. Yes
2. Yes
3. Yes
4. You misinterpret the passage so NO.
5. You misinterpret this as well so NO.
6. You misinterpret this as well so no.
7. " " " " " " "
8. " " " " " " "

Free hermeneutic and grammar lesson.

Thesselonians is the rapture and not the return of the Lord.

Where in Thessalonians? You cannot even give Scripture references or quotes. Where in Thessalonians teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord? This is getting old. Why not be honest and admit you have nothing?

Paruosia literally means a presence or a nearness. In thess. Jesus does not return to the earth as it is written so it is not His second coming! Return is "strepho"

Says who? Where does it say that? That is what you have been taught. But you have been misled.

Also there is a difference between the Paruosia of the Lord in thess. and the DAY OF THE LORD One is about jesus, the other is about an event.

So yes the rapture will happen like a thief in the night! Jesus' physical return to earth will be known globally and everyone will know!

Make your mind up. You are totally contradicting yourself again. You are all over the place. You do not seem to know what you believe. After denying the rapture will happen like a thief in the night you then admit "the rapture will happen like a thief in the night." Talk about confusion!!! I would suggest you establish what you believe before coming unto a board like this and contradicting yourself.

The onset of the 70th week of Daniel will happen like a thief in the night. As Paul said:

1. There is no mention of the Church in Daniel 9.
2. There is no mention of tribulation in Daniel 9.
3. There is no 7-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9.
4. There is no rapture mentioned in Daniel 9.
5. There is no 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9.
6. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that tells us to sever the last 7 years off from this harmonious prophecy relating to Christ’s 1st Coming and propel it 2,000 years into the unknown.
7. There is no antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9.
8. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that says antichrist will make a peace covenant with Israel for 7 years.
9. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that teaches antichrist will break a peace covenant with Israel.
10. There are no tribulation saints mentioned in Daniel 9.
11. There is no mention in Daniel 9 of the rebuilding of a third temple.

1 Thessalonians 5​

​

King James Version​

​

​

5 But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you.
2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
3 For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.

I simply quoted the text and you took exception with the text. That speaks volumes of your taught doctrine.

While I can't say absolutely, I believe based on Scripture, that because the antichrist wows and deceives the world and is a master military tactician, He will bring order out of the chaos and people will believe peace and safety has arrived- what the world does not realize is that When teh antichrist signs the covenant with Israel- all hell will break loose not peace and safety.

Where exactly in Scripture does it teach "antichrist signs the covenant with Israel." This is more nonsense you have been taught that does not exist in the sacred pages. You try to apply to antichrist what pertains to Christ. Shame on you!

Also when Jesus returns- the world knows- the antichrist gathers the armies of the world at the Valley of Jezreel (Armageddon) to battle the Lord- that is not a thief in the night.

YOu need to read more carefully.

There is only 1 coming.

 

[Keraz]

what is the purpose for a future millennium? Many of us would like to know the answer to this.

Many do know it, only people who fail to read all of the Bible and who grip onto false theories, cannot understand that the thousand year reign of Jesus is God's reward to His Son; Psalms 2:7-9, Psalms 47:1-9, Isaiah 2:2-4
Also many Prophesies say how He will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as against the Prophesies of His lowly first Advent, as a suffering servant.

Time to ditch the false AMill theory and realize the Bible Truths of God's plans for our future.

 

[WPM]

Many do know it, only people who fail to read all of the Bible and who grip onto false theories, cannot understand that the thousand year reign of Jesus is God's reward to His Son; Psalms 2:7-9, Psalms 47:1-9, Isaiah 2:2-4
Also many Prophesies say how He will come as the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, as against the Prophesies of His lowly first Advent, as a suffering servant.

Time to ditch the false AMill theory and realize the Bible Truths of God's plans for our future.

Revelation 20 is a dumping ground for OT passages that make no mention of a future millennium in your theology. That is likely because multiple Scriptures in the New Testament forbid your theology. The picture you have in your head of a sin-cursed, goat-infested, death-blighted future millennial kingdom is false.

 

[Keraz]

Revelation 20 is a dumping ground for OT passages that make no mention of a future millennium in your theology

Statements like this, make your understanding of the Prophetic Word beyond hope.
You will only realise your wrong beliefs as things unfold.

 

[WPM]

Statements like this, make your understanding of the Prophetic Word beyond hope.
You will only realise your wrong beliefs as things unfold.

Why not be honest and admit: what you attribute to Revelation 20 does not exist in the narrative. That is classic Premil. For example:

• For years, it has been the Premil mantra that Jesus will be ruling in majesty and glory with a rod of iron for 1000 years on planet earth after the second coming. But this can be found nowhere in Revelation 20 or any other passage in Scripture?
• Premillennialists argue that salvation will continue on after the second coming. But where does it say that? The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Scripture makes clear: now is the day of salvation. It also shows the completion of the great commission ushers in the end of the world (Matthew 28:19-20). Scriptures tells us that “the longsuffering of our Lord” that marks the period before Jesus comes as a thief in the night “is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). There is no more salvation after that.
• They argue that the old covenant arrangement will be fully restarted in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such teaching.
• Premillennialists speak about the restoration of an elevated position for ethnic Israel on their future millennial earth. But a careful study of Revelation 20 teaches no such thing.
• They insist that glorified saints and mortal sinners will interact in a future millennium, even though Revelation 20 makes no mention of such a belief.
• They present their future millennium to be perfect pristine paradise of peace and harmony when in fact it ends up the biggest religious bust in history, as billions of wicked as the sand of the sea overrun the Premil millennium. Their age is just 'more of the same'. There is more sin and sinners, more death and disease, more war and terror, more of the devil and his demons. The idyllic setting of the lamb enjoying sweet communion with the wolf, the bullock eating straw with the lion, the little kid-goat lying peaceably beside the leopard, the cow and the bear grazing happily together is quickly broken as the slaughter truck roar up from the temple. The Zadok priests quickly jump out and drag the unsuspecting animals aboard who had been lulled into a false-sense of security by Christ’s rod of iron rule. As the truck speeds off the millennial peace and harmony is broken forever by the bloody intent of the Zadok priests. When they arrive in Jerusalem, they pointlessly slit the throats of the lambs, goats and bullocks because they are somehow needed as sin offerings, even though Jesus had made the final sacrifice for sin thousands of years previous.
• If there are mortal saints that surrender their lives to Christ in some supposed future millennium, and if the earth does indeed flee away after Satan's little season as Revelation 20 states, then there must be (of necessity) another rapture and glorification in order to rescue them from the regeneration or replacement of this current earth. Of course, no Premil will acknowledge this. This is what error produces!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

LOL. You just confirmed my thesis (and that of Amils): Premil is a private interpretation. It has zero corroboration anywhere else in Scripture, despite your previous boasts to the contrary. I said I would prove your claims to be lies and you confirmed it. But will you say sorry for your misleading statments? Not likely. That would require honesty and humility.

So Jesus didn't weep in JOhn either! After all it has no corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. Your answer is completely asinine! It is a literal interpretation based on how the words were used in the day John wrote them!

You create a false rule and then judge things by that false rule.

We are not talking about a passing biblical detail that is buried in amongst a greater amount of facts that does not affect anyone's theology. Remember, we are talking about the so-called greatest age outside of the NHNE and you have no other support amongst the OT prophets, Jesus and the NT writers. That alone is enough to reject this false interpretation.

First I have no clue as to what NHNE means.
Second show me from SCripture that anything written must be backed
up by other SCriptures.
Third this is not even an interpretation like yours is. It is an acceptance of the passage as it stands and accepting the words as they are used normally be mankind.

Corroboration is therefore rejected by Premil as irrelevant or unnecessary for their theology. Yet, it is one of the crucial basic and elementary tenets in biblical interpretation. A non- corroborative doctrine is a false doctrine.

Since when did this become a unalterable rule of hermeneutics? We accept corroboration when Corroboration is there. but if Scripture only mentions somethi8ng one- that does not make it unreal and have to be reinterpreted as Amils do. And this young child is not a doctrine but simply a fact of time! Just because it is a great age- does not mean that teh 1,000 years has to be plastered everywhere to make it valid.

Premils have to ignore or dismiss countless solid climactic Scriptures in order to let Premil fit. This is unacceptable in my opinion. The question that has not been answered here from the Op is, what is the purpose for a future millennium? Many of us would like to know the answer to this.

No we do not. We accept them in the context they present themselves in! A climax in eschatology does not always mean the return of Jesus. Well your opinion and $1 will get you a cup of coffee at McDonalds. I don't care about your or my opinion.

The purpose for a future earthly kingdom when Jesus returns t earth as written is to fulfill prophecy and because God decided to have one. I can give you a bunch of speculation, but that is what it would be speculation. Just liike what you do when you rewrite Scripture to redefine passages to fit an amil agenda.

One of the main reasons I first questioned Premil was that no other NT writer mentions a literal 1,000 following the coming of Christ. If this is supposed to be what Premils suggest - namely the greatest age outside of the new heavens and new earth - then why did none of the other writers allude to it? We don't have one single second coming passage that indicates that there will be 1000 years following.

And please tell me biblically why others not speaking of the time frame is so critical that you have to reinterpret a simple plain passage with no construction that even remotely hints of it being symbolic or allegorical?

Pleasew present a cogent, rational and biblical argument why the 1,000 years has to be reinforced by X amount of other writers.

God declared there would be a physical kingdom on earth where He rules. He gave enormous information on how that kingdom would look and run. If god decides to place how long that promised kingdom would last in only one book, that is His right as God! You need to show why biblically that means it cannot be taken literally even though it is written to be understood literally.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Here you go again: you promote your own personal beliefs without showing anywhere in Scripture that teaches 2 future comings. That is because you have nothing of biblical worth to bring to the table. If you had it, you would give it.

Well as I do not believe in two future comings I cannot write about it. You seem to want to saddle me with this lie of your own making.

 

[WPM]

So Jesus didn't weep in JOhn either! After all it has no corroboration elsewhere in Scripture. Your answer is completely asinine! It is a literal interpretation based on how the words were used in the day John wrote them!

You create a false rule and then judge things by that false rule.

I believe, this lack of corroboration (supporting Scripture with Scripture) that you concede, is at the core of why many reject the Premil theory. This is where your school of thought falls down. Corroboration is fundamental to understanding any truth in Scripture. Without it you are left with private interpretation.

The Reformers introduced a very solid interpretative system that was based on the crucial principle of supporting Scripture with Scripture. They used this to dismantle Roman Catholic heresy. They required corroborative evidence to support their opinion of any given text. This was to prevent error and to aid our understanding of truth.

Corroboration is said to be “evidence that tends to support a proposition that is already supported by some initial evidence, therefore confirming the proposition.”

Sound theologians have employed this important principle to avoid speculative interpretation and the damage of forcing a meaning on a text that contradicts repeated Scripture.

Anyone that is a student of this Book (and theology) will know the importance of this great demand. Anyone that has ever been involved in law will also know how essential it is in proving a fact.

Most Christians are aware of the crucial mandate of 2 Peter 1:20: “no prophecy of the Scripture is of any private interpretation.”

Hello! When someone takes one Scripture and makes it contradicts numerous other Scripture you know that their understanding of that text is wrong.

Rightly understanding the Bible requires exegesis (meaning: deriving out of Scripture), not eisegesis (meaning: reading into Scripture).

The problem we have today across the board when it comes to doctrine is: Christians try to force their theology into a text rather than letting the Scripture speak for itself.

Premil (in my opinion) is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine.

Romans 4:3 instructs us, "For what saith the Scripture?"

Interpreting a text to the exclusion of other relevant Scripture is censured here. Imposing your bias school of thought on a Scripture text is wrong. That is private interpretation. It should be supported by other clear and repeated Scriptures. After all, there is a harmony to all truth. Scripture does not contradict Scripture. If we employ this interpretive rule, I believe, one cannot but arrive at any other conclusion than the coming of Christ is climactic and ushers in eternity.

show me from SCripture that anything written must be backed
up by other SCriptures.
Third this is not even an interpretation like yours is. It is an acceptance of the passage as it stands and accepting the words as they are used normally be mankind.

2 Corinthians 13:1 highlights a divine evidential imperative, which if ignored will bring Bible students into all forms of false teaching. It states, “In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.”

This important principle was decreed of God throughout the Old Testament in order to corroborate evidence in the case of witnesses - to prove matters of evidence. It is also presented in the New Testament time as the criteria for establishing truth. 1 Corinthians 2:13 says, “the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.”

God expects us to compare Scripture with Scripture – the spiritual with the spiritual. Scripture is the supreme and absolute means for interpreting other Scripture.

Tim Chaffey “by comparing Scripture with Scripture, we have a system of checks and balances to help us stay on the right track.”

 

[Keraz]

Pleasew present a cogent, rational and biblical argument why the 1,000 years has to be reinforced by X amount of other writers.

I have done this, by the means of showing how God's time line for mankind is divided into 3 exact tranches of 2000 years, with a final 1000 years to come; making a total of 7000 years. Which parallels the 7 'days' of Creation.
Many of the early Church Fathers agreed with this and today it is commonly accepted.
Also there is the fact of God's reward to His Son for His sacrifice for Mankind's sins.

But locked in AMill's and all those who have been sucked by false teachings, are blinded and incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word. Isaiah 29:9-12

 

[WPM]

First I have no clue as to what NHNE means.

New heaven and new earth

A climax in eschatology does not always mean the return of Jesus.

You think because you start something it is a fact. Not so! Quite the opposite.

The Greek word eschatos here simply means end, last, farthest or final. The Greek word chronos means time or times. A more common term in the New Testament is the phrase “the last days.” Also, “the end” is mentioned quite often and is carefully connected to the glorious, triumphant and climactic return of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The day of salvation has been ongoing since the Fall (Isaiah 49:8 and 2 Corinthians 6:2). It is the “acceptable time” or “acceptable year” (Isaiah 49:8, 61:2, Luke 4:19) to be saved. “Today” is an age of grace the only day to respond to His voice (Hebrews 3:7-8, 4:7). There is no other day of hope after this day for salvation.

The second coming brings a close to the day of salvation. Repeated Scripture shows that now is the only day of salvation. After showing us the destruction of this earth, the works that are in it, the heavens, the elements when Jesus comes, and after describing the longsuffering of God in the days of Noah before the destruction of all the wicked, Peter responds to the mockers scoffing at the apparent delay in Christ's return: “the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation” (2 Peter 3:15). See also Romans 2:4. He was reaffirming that salvation is limited to this side of the second coming. A sign of the end is that the Gospel must “be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come" (Matthew 24:14). The second coming brings the curtain down on the great commission. Once the ark door closes it is too late (Matthew 25:10-13, 28:19-20 and Act 3:19-21).

The age to come has no room for "mortals" (Luke 20:34-36, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 and Revelation 21-22) or the unregenerate (Psalm 37:9-11, Luke 17:26-30, 1 Corinthians 6:9, I Thessalonians 5:2-3, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10). This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

John 6:39-44, 54, John 11:21-27, John 12:48, Ephesians 1:10 and Revelation 10:5-7 would seem to suggest that time reaches its fullness at the climactic return of Christ. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Luke 20:34-36, Acts 3:19-21, Romans 8:19-23, 1 Corinthians 15:50-55 ,1 Peter 1:3-5 and Revelation 21:1-5 all show that the end of the bondage of corruption occurs when Jesus comes. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

1 Corinthians 13:12, Ephesians 4:13 and Revelation 10:5-7 show that the curtain coming down on the mystery of God, thus confirming we are at the end of time and entering into eternity when all will finally be revealed. This would be a strong argument to me that the second coming is “the end.”

Repeated Scripture locates the replacement of the current heavens and earth with the new heavens and earth and incorruption at the second coming. Job 14:12-14, Isaiah 13:9-11, Isaiah 34:1-4, 8, Isaiah 65:17-21, Isaiah 66:22-24, Joel 2:3, Joel 2:10-11, Malachi 4:1-3, Matthew 24:29-30, Matthew 24:35-44, Mark 13:24-26, Luke 21:25-27, Romans 8:18-23, 1 Corinthians 15:23-24, 2 Thessalonians 1:7-10, 2 Peter 3:10-13, Hebrews 1:10-12, Revelation 6:13-17, Revelation 16:15-20, Revelation 19:11-16 and Revelation 20:11-15 shows us that this occurs at the second coming. This is indeed the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection. It is the beginning of incorruption. It is the beginning of a new arrangement.

It seems like whatever angle you examine the second coming it appears to be climactic, final and glorious.

The purpose for a future earthly kingdom when Jesus returns t earth as written is to fulfill prophecy and because God decided to have one. I can give you a bunch of speculation, but that is what it would be speculation. Just liike what you do when you rewrite Scripture to redefine passages to fit an amil agenda.

Again, no Scripture that says what you say. You think because you start something it is a fact. Not so! Quite the opposite.

And please tell me biblically why others not speaking of the time frame is so critical that you have to reinterpret a simple plain passage with no construction that even remotely hints of it being symbolic or allegorical?

Pleasew present a cogent, rational and biblical argument why the 1,000 years has to be reinforced by X amount of other writers.

God declared there would be a physical kingdom on earth where He rules. He gave enormous information on how that kingdom would look and run. If god decides to place how long that promised kingdom would last in only one book, that is His right as God! You need to show why biblically that means it cannot be taken literally even though it is written to be understood literally.

Because "the end" is "the end." Hello! That is what the Book says. That is what repeated straightforward Scripture says. They didn't anywhere recognize your future sin-curse goat-infested death-blighted future millennium. Multiple second coming passages show it to be the end of time, the end of corruption, the end of the wicked, the end of sin, the end of death, the end for the devil. It is the beginning of eternity. It is the beginning of perfection.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Says who? Where does it say that? That is what you have been taught. But you have been misled.

The Greek Language says who!

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Make your mind up. You are totally contradicting yourself again. You are all over the place. You do not seem to know what you believe. After denying the rapture will happen like a thief in the night you then admit "the rapture will happen like a thief in the night." Talk about confusion!!! I would suggest you establish what you believe before coming unto a board like this and contradicting yourself.

No I am just contradicting the straw man caricature you made of me.

1. There is no mention of the Church in Daniel 9.
2. There is no mention of tribulation in Daniel 9.
3. There is no 7-year tribulation mentioned in Daniel 9.
4. There is no rapture mentioned in Daniel 9.
5. There is no 3rd coming mentioned in Daniel 9.
6. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that tells us to sever the last 7 years off from this harmonious prophecy relating to Christ’s 1st Coming and propel it 2,000 years into the unknown.
7. There is no antichrist mentioned in Daniel 9.
8. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that says antichrist will make a peace covenant with Israel for 7 years.
9. There is nowhere in Daniel 9 that teaches antichrist will break a peace covenant with Israel.
10. There are no tribulation saints mentioned in Daniel 9.
11. There is no mention in Daniel 9 of the rebuilding of a third temple.

Of course not. Daniel noine deals with one end time issue as mentioned. teh rest is found everywhere else in teh bible.

further activities of the antichrist are more specifically described in other passages. You should know that.

I simply quoted the text and you took exception with the text. That speaks volumes of your taught doctrine.

If you had simply quoted the text I would have agreed, it is your opinions added that I disagree with.

Where exactly in Scripture does it teach "antichrist signs the covenant with Israel." This is more nonsense you have been taught that does not exist in the sacred pages. You try to apply to antichrist what pertains to Christ. Shame on you!

Daniel 9. IN Dan. 9 He is called the prince of the people who shall come and destroy the sanctuary. We know He is the antichrist because in the midst of that 7 year pact he causes the sacrifice to cease and enters the hoy of holies as the AOD.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

I have done this, by the means of showing how God's time line for mankind is divided into 3 exact tranches of 2000 years, with a final 1000 years to come; making a total of 7000 years. Which parallels the 7 'days' of Creation.
Many of the early Church Fathers agreed with this and today it is commonly accepted.
Also there is the fact of God's reward to His Son for His sacrifice for Mankind's sins.

But locked in AMill's and all those who have been sucked by false teachings, are blinded and incapable of understanding the truths of the Prophetic Word. Isaiah 29:9-12

Well we are into the 7000 th year and no fulfilments. You need to recalibrate your thinking.

I bel;ieve that we will see the end around 6,000 years but as the bible is silent on it we should be as well. As you love to throw the ante nicene fathers in- they date creation anywhere from 4004 to 4046 B.C. according to the modern calendar! You wish to disagree with Ussher that is fine,

And you are the bright shining light who has been wonderfully set free and your teachings should stand on par with Scripture by all your implications of your studies.