23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

[WPM]

It is your faulty hermeneutic that calls for a recap. Why would I build on that faulty opinion? That is all you.

Because when you go to the end of each recap it is the end. Unless you believe in several ends of the world.

 

[rockytopva]

Yes, this marked the destruction of the wicked. None survived. So will it be at the second coming. This exposes Premil.

Noah - Departed the earth premil.
Noah - Returned to the earth postmil.

... As will we!

 

[WPM]

Noah - Departed the earth premil.
Noah - Returned to the earth postmil.

... As will we!

All the wicked will be destroyed before Jesus brings us back to the new glorified earth.

 

[rockytopva]

All the wicked will be destroyed before Jesus brings us back to the new glorified earth.

That’s why I am pretrib. How are we going to return post trib to reign with Christ a thousand years if we are not first ruptured away at an earlier time?

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:38-39

Noahs generation had their eschatology wrong as well… Except for eight souls…

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:42

 

[Ronald Nolette]

(18) Premillennialists cannot even agree on the timing of the arrival of the new heavens and the new earth. They are split on whether Revelation 21 comes chronologically after Revelation 20 and therefore after the millennium kingdom and Satan’s little season in time or whether it is synonymous to that much-debated chapter and that the new heavens and new earth appears at the start of the millennium. This exposes another major weakness in the Premillennial camp: if they cannot even agree on something so simple and elementary as this in their main proof text, how can we trust their chronological approach to Revelation 19 and Revelation 20?

(19) Premil invents a 3rd group of humans that Scripture knows nothing of, that are too wicked to be raptured at the second coming and too righteous to be destroyed. It is these mortals, they argue, who populate their alleged future millennial earth. The reality is there are only two peoples in this world – the righteous and the unrighteous, those "in Adam" (the 1st birth) and those "in Christ" (2nd birth).

(20) Premil has an unhealthy obsessive focus on natural Israel, wrongly believing her to be God’s chosen people today under the new covenant. As a result, they have a mistaken fixation with natural Jerusalem in the Middle East, as if it is the epicenter of God’s workings with mankind on this earth and the place of His unconditional favor. This is wrong! They ignore much Scripture that shows that the fig tree has been cut down, the kingdom of God has been removed from Israel. Ancient Jerusalem and the temple therein were merely Old Testament imperfect shadows of the heavenly reality that was revealed at the first advent. The New Testament repeatedly teaches that we have become one with spiritual believing Israel in the OT. It makes clear; there is only one elect people. There is only one good olive tree, not two; one body, not two; one bride, not two; one spiritual temple, not two; one people of God, not two; one household of faith, not two; one fold, not two; one new man, not “twain,” and one elect of God throughout time!

(21) General unqualified phrases like “all,” “all nations,” “the quick (or living) and the dead,” “every man,” “every eye,” “every one,” “men,” “man,” “all men everywhere,” “the flesh of all men both free and bond, both small and great,” “all that dwell upon the earth … whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world ,” “they that dwell on the earth … whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world,” “the world,” “the whole world” and “all the world,” that objective and impartial Bible students acknowledge embrace the whole human race (or the full amount of all the wicked) are redefined and explained away to let Premil fit. If one was to take a precise straightforward interpretation of these phrases, one could only come to conclusion that there are no exclusions here. This shows that the Premil boast that they are literalists is inaccurate.

(22) Premil takes common linguistic terms that are easily understood by the unindoctrinated observer in any language to mean the opposite to what they actually say. For example, Premil does not believe that "first" means first and "last" means last. The English words “first” and “last” are taken from the Greek words protos and eschatos and are widely accepted by all unbiased theologians to denote exactly what they say. The word protos means first, as in the foremost in time, place, order or importance. The word eschatos on the other hand means end, last, farthest and final. It is explicitly clear from their usage, meaning and context in the New Testament that these words are the exact antithesis of each other.

(23) Premil does not believe that “the end” refers to the end. The New Testament word from which we get our phrase “the end” is the Greek word telos which refers to the point aimed at as a limit, i.e. the conclusion of an act or state. It is the termination point of a thing. When Scripture simply talks about “the beginning” without any other additional words or contextual reason to identify it with a specific event, then most sane theologians agree it is talking about “the beginning” of creation. Whilst all sound theologians agree on this many are inconsistent when it comes to “the end.” The reason I believe is because it cuts across a lot of their end-time theology they have been taught. But I believe we should treat both sayings similarly. Unless Scripture specifically identifies “the end” with a particular event or matter like “the end of barley harvest” (Ruth 2:23) “the end of the sabbath” (Matt 28:1), “the end of the year” (2 Chron 24:23), “the end of the rod” (1 Sam 14:27), or “the end of the commandment” (1 Tim 1:5), etc, etc, then we should understand it as the end of the world (which is the end of the age).

So much of this is deliberate and willful lies of what premils, believe.

What amils and post mils believe is based on an allegorical reinterpretation of Scripture. This implies they have found a secret code given to them by god.

Premillenials generally believe (there are some -people who are exceptions to the rule) that the Bible defines all symbols and apocalyptic language found in Scripture, so we do not need the hand of man to reinterpret the bible for us.

 

[Timtofly]

Because when you go to the end of each recap it is the end. Unless you believe in several ends of the world.

There are no recaps in Revelation. There is only one point in time, Jesus delivers all creation to God. That is 1,000 years after the Second Coming.

 

[WPM]

That’s why I am pretrib. How are we going to return post trib to reign with Christ a thousand years if we are not first ruptured away at an earlier time?

For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be. - Matthew 24:38-39

Noahs generation had their eschatology wrong as well… Except for eight souls…

Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:42

Where is this teaching that you promote (a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord)? Show me one text in the whole of Scripture that teaches this.

 

[rockytopva]

Where is this teaching that you promote (a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord)? Show me one text in the whole of Scripture that teaches this.

Well... If I could I would know the times and the seasons. I will go along with Isaac Newton...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

It is my estimations that we are at the end of the Laodicean church age along with the restoration of Israel. I do not believe we are that far away for things to wrap up... Uh-oh... Timing... And to say that these dates are just estimations...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

 

[WPM]

So much of this is deliberate and willful lies of what premils, believe.

What amils and post mils believe is based on an allegorical reinterpretation of Scripture. This implies they have found a secret code given to them by god.

Premillenials generally believe (there are some -people who are exceptions to the rule) that the Bible defines all symbols and apocalyptic language found in Scripture, so we do not need the hand of man to reinterpret the bible for us.

Instead of making false partisan sweeping statements like this: please present what you imagine is incorrect in what you quote and why.

 

[WPM]

Well... If I could I would know the times and the seasons. I will go along with Isaac Newton...

"And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half. " - Daniel 12:7

From a folio cataloged as Yahuda MS 7.3g, f. 13v:

"So then the time times & half a time are 42 months or 1260 days or three years & an half, reckoning twelve months to a year & 30 days to a month as was done in the Calendar of the primitive year. And the days of short lived Beasts being put for the years of lived kingdoms, the period of 1260 days, if dated from the complete conquest of the three kings A.C. 800, will end A.C. 2060." - Isaac Newton

It is my estimations that we are at the end of the Laodicean church age along with the restoration of Israel. I do not believe we are that far away for things to wrap up... Uh-oh... Timing... And to say that these dates are just estimations...

"It may end later, but I see no reason for its ending sooner. This I mention not to assert when the time of the end shall be, but to put a stop to the rash conjectures of fancifull men who are frequently predicting the time of the end, & by doing so bring the sacred prophesies into discredit as often as their predictions fail. Christ comes as a thief in the night, & it is not for us to know the times & seasons which God hath put into his own breast." - Isaac Newton

Obviously you have no Scripture to support your error.

 

[rockytopva]

Obviously you have no Scripture to support your error.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2

 

[-Phil]

Since abandoning Premillennialism

Ism’s by definition are prejudicial & discriminatory.
Why not go ahead and ‘abandon’ all prejudice and discrimination?
What remains is what already is, the truth.

 

[WPM]

Ism’s by definition are prejudicial & discriminatory.
Why not go ahead and ‘abandon’ all prejudice and discrimination?
What remains is what already is, the truth.

But of the times and the seasons, brethren, ye have no need that I write unto you. For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. - 1 Thessalonians 5:1-2

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in that text? You are totally winging it!

 

[rockytopva]

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in that text? You are totally winging it!

Did I say anything at all about a seven year tribulation? You understand that we must be caught up in the air to meet the Lord Jesus before we can return with him to reign a thousand years? And when will we be caught up in the air?

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Once caught up in the air we will be prepared to come back with the Lord to reign on this earth a thousand years.

 

[WPM]

Did I say anything at all about a seven year tribulation? You understand that we must be caught up in the air to meet the Lord Jesus before we can return with him to reign a thousand years? And when will we be caught up in the air?

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Once caught up in the air we will be prepared to come back with the Lord to reign on this earth a thousand years.

We are in Revelation 20 since the first resurrection of Christ. So, your eschatology is off kilter.

Do you believe in a trib period after the catching away? If so, for how long?

 

[rockytopva]

We are in Revelation 20 since the first resurrection of Christ. So, your eschatology is off kilter.

Do you believe in a trib period after the catching away? If so, for how long?

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. - Revelation 13:5

We know the reign of the Anti-Christ as 3.5 years. And the Apostle said...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

At the appearing of the Antichrist look for the rapture of the church. How long it will be until we return with Christ to reign a thousand years I know not.

 

[WPM]

And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months. - Revelation 13:5

We know the reign of the Anti-Christ as 3.5 years. And the Apostle said...

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3

At the appearing of the Antichrist look for the rapture of the church. How long it will be until we return with Christ to reign a thousand years I know not.

So, you are saying that your future trib that comes after your "rapture" is 3.5 years then your 3rd coming?

 

[rockytopva]

So, you are saying that your future trib that comes after your "rapture" is 3.5 years then your 3rd coming?

1. He comes the first time to meet us in the air
2. We return with him the first time to reign on this earth one thousand years.

Rapture - It comes when the son of perdition is revealed.
Return - It comes with the conquering of the beast

 

[WPM]

1. He comes the first time to meet us in the air
2. We return with him the first time to reign on this earth one thousand years.

Rapture - It comes when the son of perdition is revealed.
Return - It comes with the conquering of the beast

This is all your own opinion. This is private interpretation. Show me a text that teaches this?

What is more: you carefully avoided the question!!!

So, you are saying that your future trib that comes after your "rapture" is 3.5 years then your 3rd coming?

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Instead of making false partisan sweeping statements like this: please present what you imagine is incorrect in what you quote and why.

Well pick one of your issues you say you are right and premils are wrong and I will gladly discuss it.

But one is yo0ur retiming of Rev. 19-20-21. There is simply no warrant to say that the latter chapters happen before the earlier chapters. That is not how God taught us to process information. YOu need strong biblical proof of that and this is the third thread you will be given a chance to show so.