23 major reasons to reject the Premil doctrine!

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WPM

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It's quite evident to anyone who reads Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-3, that they bear no relation to todays situation.
Your attempts to make then fit now, are just a joke.

The early Chiliasts anticipation was completely different to that which modern-day Premils hold today. Early Chiliasts envisioned a future millennial age that would be devoid of the wicked, corruption and sin. We have many explicit statements from them that describe an all-consummating return of Christ. Ironically, many of the Scriptures that modern Premils present to justify the bondage of corruption continuing on the future earth are used by ancient Chiliasts to relate to the kingly reign of Christ in our age and the ongoing great commission. We have statement after statement that show a victorious Christ exercising supreme sovereign authority – both in heaven and on earth – ever since His coronation, after defeating every enemy of man and God. Christ is king. He rules over both creation and His new creation. Dr. Stephen Seamands submits: “The early Christians believed that when Jesus ascended into heaven He had been installed and exalted as King, reigning as Lord of all.”

As we analyze the evidence, we see many passages that are traditionally used by Premillennialists today to support their doctrine, and then contrast these with how the ancients viewed them, we see a very different mind-set and an alternative application to what is widely accepted within Millennialist circles. Messianic passages like Psalm 2:1-12, Psalm 110:1-6, Isaiah 2:2-5, Micah 4:1-5 and Isaiah 66:1 that most commentators agree relate to the kingly reign of the anointed One during the Messianic period are applied to the here-and-now rather than a millennial period after the second coming. This is not insignificant.

The ancient Chiliasts taught a realized theology. They saw the First Advent as the defeat of Satan and his minions. They taught that Christ vanquished every opponent of righteousness through His sinless life, His atoning death and His glorious resurrection. These early writers recognized, that regardless of the exploits of Israel’s ancient leaders (prophets, priests, kings, and judges,), they were imperfect and simply preparatory to the coming perfect prophet, priest, king, and judge who was the eternal personification of peace. They believed and taught that the Messiah brought peace to His subjects after His great conquest. They equated the peace described in Isaiah 2 and Micah 4 with that which believers experience when they encounter Christ during the intra-Advent period.

They believed that this supernatural peace comes through the success of the Gospel going out of Zion to all nations in these last days. The evidence of this was said to be seen in the Gentiles turning to Christ in significant numbers. Like modern Amillennialists and Postmillennialists, they had a very positive estimation of the accomplishments of the great commission upon the Gentile inhabitants of the globe. That was because they were seeing the fruit of the Gospel expanse to village after village, town after town, city after city, and nation after nation, with their own eyes.

Early Church Chiliast writers viewed this current age as the glorious Messianic reign of Christ over His enemies. This was the triumphant result of His earthly labors. They were consistent in connecting the reign of Christ upon His heavenly throne over the His enemies (since His coronation) with the going forth of the Gospel to the nations through the great commission. One is seen to facilitate the other. These early Millennialists believed that Christ’s enemies were now under completely subjection to His will. This in turn facilitated the free flow of the Gospel out to the nations. In their writings, there is absolutely no doubt about the starting point, and finishing point, of Christ’s Messianic reign. It began at the First Advent and ends at the Second Advent.
 

rockytopva

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I am premil from the top of the head to the bottom of my foot. Every hair on my head is premil... If it wasn't I would pull it out!

Not only because the Lord comes at an hour in which we think not... But...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

The premil bunch is a pure and holy bunch, and the hope also makes for a hopeful and joyous Pentecostal!
 

Ronald Nolette

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Many Amillennialists see 7 cycles in Revelation relating to the intra-Advent period. These parallel each other.

Cycle 1 (received on earth)

Cycle 1 is basically introductory. It is the only vision that was received on Patmos.

It relates to direct messages relating to the conduct of the seven churches (Ch 2-3).

Cycle 2 (received in heaven)

Seven Seals (Ch 6-8:1)

Cycle 3 (received in heaven)

Seven Trumpets (Ch 8:6-10:7)

Cycle 4 (received in heaven)

The Church and its onslaught from the devil (Ch 12) including a parallel view of the beast’s (the world antichrist system – intra-advent) persecution of the elect (Ch 13) and the simultaneous joy of the redeemed (Ch 14) in heaven (Ch 12-14).

Cycle 5 (received in heaven)

Seven Vials (Ch 16)

Cycle 6 (received in heaven)

Babylon (17-19)

Cycle 7 (received in heaven)

The figurative binding of Satan from the cross and the victorious reign of the saints in heaven. The ushering in of the New Heaven and the New Earth (Ch 20-22).

It is interesting that each of these parallels that were received in heaven (2-7) start with the Greek word kai ("And") even though they commence a new vision pertaining to the intra-Advent period and ending at the second coming.
But once again this is a view of amillenialists that is based on rewriting what is in the Scriptures and make it mean something other than written. the whole, symbolic, secret meaning hooey is just that.

When did angles fly in the atmosphere.

When did Babylon teh great fall.
When was the mark insituted and the world warned.

YOu just can't fit the word of God into your worldview.
 

Ronald Nolette

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Agreeing with Keraz means nothing. I would prefer you to agree with Scripture.

When do/did "the last days" begin? When do/did they finish? When is "the last day"?

Well there are three distinct and separate definitions of end times in the bible.

The times of the end.
The period of the end
and the last 7 years which as all do conclude with Jesus return.

But the period of the end began in 1948 when Israel was back in the land in unbelief and being prepared to pass under teh rod of Gods Judgment as told in Isaiah and Ezekiel.

The general end times began at Pentecost.

Teh specific end period begins when the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary makes a covenant with many Jews for 7 years.

They all conclude in one evnt. The physical return of Jesus to earth to establish HIs 1000 year kingdom.
 

WPM

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But once again this is a view of amillenialists that is based on rewriting what is in the Scriptures and make it mean something other than written. the whole, symbolic, secret meaning hooey is just that.

When did angles fly in the atmosphere.

When did Babylon teh great fall.
When was the mark insituted and the world warned.

YOu just can't fit the word of God into your worldview.

One needs eyes to see and the ability to divorce themselves from the error of man's teaching to comprehend Revelation. You seem to struggle with both.
 

WPM

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Well there are three distinct and separate definitions of end times in the bible.

The times of the end.
The period of the end
and the last 7 years which as all do conclude with Jesus return.

But the period of the end began in 1948 when Israel was back in the land in unbelief and being prepared to pass under teh rod of Gods Judgment as told in Isaiah and Ezekiel.

The general end times began at Pentecost.

Teh specific end period begins when the prince of the people who will destroy the sanctuary makes a covenant with many Jews for 7 years.

They all conclude in one evnt. The physical return of Jesus to earth to establish HIs 1000 year kingdom.

You are a master at avoidance.
  1. When do/did "the last days" begin?
  2. When do/did they finish?
  3. When is "the last day"?
 

WPM

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I am premil from the top of the head to the bottom of my foot. Every hair on my head is premil... If it wasn't I would pull it out!

Not only because the Lord comes at an hour in which we think not... But...

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

The premil bunch is a pure and holy bunch, and the hope also makes for a hopeful and joyous Pentecostal!

Amils believe that He comes at an hour we think not of. This proves nothing. What you cannot present is one proof text for the Pretrib teaching. That is because it cannot be found in the Book only in the Left Behind novels.

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in that text?
 

rockytopva

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Amils believe that He comes at an hour we think not of. This proves nothing. What you cannot present is one proof text for the Pretrib teaching. That is because it cannot be found in the Book only in the Left Behind novels.

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in that text?
Need to find the book... The life and times of Mr Know-It-All...

But as for me... He comes in a time I think not, as a thief in the night.
 

WPM

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Need to find the book... The life and times of Mr Know-It-All...

But as for me... He comes in a time I think not, as a thief in the night.

Your doctrine is crumbling before your face because you cannot present any Scripture. You blindly believe what you have been taught. It is obviously extra-biblical. It is a Jesuit invention foisted upon Protestantism. If you had a proof text you would present it.

Where teaches a rapture of the Church, followed by seven-year tribulation, followed by a third coming of the Lord in that text?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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It's quite evident to anyone who reads Isaiah 2:1-4 and Micah 4:1-3, that they bear no relation to todays situation.
Your attempts to make then fit now, are just a joke.
Both passages refer to the last days. Scripture indicates that the last days began already on the day of Pentecost (Acts 2:16-21) and they last until the future coming of Christ (2 Peter 3:3-4). So, your attempts to make those passages, which are undeniably related directly to the last days, about anything except for the time period between Christ's first coming and His second coming, are just a joke. You continually fail to allow scripture to interpret scripture and that is why you try to redefine the time period to which the last days pertain.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Need to find the book... The life and times of Mr Know-It-All...

But as for me... He comes in a time I think not, as a thief in the night.
That is true for Amils as well, so that does not prove your view. Do you understand that? You were asked a question that you did not even attempt to answer. I think that is very telling. You do not have scripture to support your pre-trib theory. Pre-trib has no coherent arguments to back it up. It is the result of mixing together unrelated scriptures into an incoherent, convoluted mess.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Thank you for straining out the gnat in my failures.

And you know this is a series of sports cameras HOW?

And I am glad Sinclair Ferguson created a name for this created concept.

Often? Give some examples of this often.

So are you saying, the seals, trumpets and bowls have been running for about 2 millenia now? Proof? Scripture defines its own symbolism and some you have given in the past are not found in Scripture, but in the fertile mind of ones imagination.

But yet the plagues wrought by the seals, trumpets and bowls are all different with different results. to same they are recaps of teh same events is to rewrite Scripture.

But the targets are different, the results are different, the responses are different, so they are not recaps, but similar judgments with similar but different targets with different results. Only by rewriting scripture can you say these are the same.
I'd like to get an idea of how you understand the timing of things. First, consider this:

Revelation 6:12 And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; 13 And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. 14 And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. 15 And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; 16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: 17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

This is obviously describing things that happen after the sixth seal is opened. It indicates that at that point "the great day of his wrath" ("the wrath of the Lamb") will have come. How much time do you believe takes place between what is described above and what is described here:

Revelation 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. 17 And I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; 18 That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. 19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. 20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. 21 And the remnant were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.

Would you agree that Revelation 19:11-21 describes the wrath of the Lamb coming down on His enemies? It says that the wrath of the Lamb has come or is at hand after the sixth seal is opened. So, there can't be much time at all between the opening of the sixth seal and what is described in Revelation 19:11-21, right? But, I'm curious as to how much time you think there will be between the opening of the sixth and seal and the second coming of Christ described in Revelation 19:11-21.

Then there is this:

Revelation 14:14 And I looked, and behold a white cloud, and upon the cloud one sat like unto the Son of man, having on his head a golden crown, and in his hand a sharp sickle. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe. 16 And he that sat on the cloud thrust in his sickle on the earth; and the earth was reaped. 17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, he also having a sharp sickle. 18 And another angel came out from the altar, which had power over fire; and cried with a loud cry to him that had the sharp sickle, saying, Thrust in thy sharp sickle, and gather the clusters of the vine of the earth; for her grapes are fully ripe. 19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God. 20 And the winepress was trodden without the city, and blood came out of the winepress, even unto the horse bridles, by the space of a thousand and six hundred furlongs.

This also describes the wrath of the Lamb and, like Revelation 19:11-21, describes it in terms of treading the winepress of the wrath of God. Do you think the above passage is describing a completely different event than what is described in Revelation 19:11-21?
 

Spiritual Israelite

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Keraz and I do not agree often, but Here I agree with Him- you are in left field to think Isaiah and Micah are happening now! You have to take what is written and make it some secret code that people have to look to you to understand. Talk about Jim Jones wanna-be.
That you are agreeing with him on this when you apparently disagree with him on everything else maybe should be a red flag? Anyway, you both deny what scripture teaches, which is that the last days refer to the time period generally between the first coming of Christ and the second coming. Why do you do that?

The following clearly indicates that the last days had begun already as of the time of the day of Pentecost:

Acts 2:15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day. 16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; 17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams: 18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

And the following clearly indicates that the last days refer to the time period that leads up to the second coming of Christ:

2 Peter 3:3 3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts, 4 And saying, Where is the promise of his coming? for since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of the creation.

Why do you not allow scripture to define when the last days would occur for you? You want to redefine the last days to be a time period AFTER the return of Christ when scripture itself indicates that it is a time period that occurs BEFORE the return of Christ as evidenced by the fact that people obviously scoff at the promise of Christ's second coming BEFORE He comes and not after.
 

Spiritual Israelite

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I am premil from the top of the head to the bottom of my foot. Every hair on my head is premil... If it wasn't I would pull it out!

Not only because the Lord comes at an hour in which we think not... But...
Amils also believe this, so this is not a reason to be Premil.

Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure. - 1 John 3:2-3

The premil bunch is a pure and holy bunch, and the hope also makes for a hopeful and joyous Pentecostal!
This also is not a reason to be Premil. Do you think that Amils don't have this same hope? Of course we do! You really need to educate yourself on what Amils believe. I'm wondering if you're confusing full preterists with Amils or something like that?
 

rockytopva

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The purpose of Revelation was to reveal what was going to come to pass....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.... - Revelation 1:1

Which all of this was to heavy for just ordinary churches in Asia that did not amount to anything....

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
Angels - The current preacher to the congregation.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

254811_e2605e7ea7d44a55b55ec8f9edea64a9.png


I believe the rapture occurs at the end of the Laodicean church age

1. As Noah was taken away in Laodicean type times so will we
2. As Noah returned to a basically un-inhabited earth so will we... To reign with Christ a thousand years.

We are living in the age of the great falling away!I believe at the appearing of the Anti-Christ we will have opportunity to receive a QR code type tatoo on our body to make our monitariel transactions

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3
 

Spiritual Israelite

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The purpose of Revelation was to reveal what was going to come to pass....

The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John.... - Revelation 1:1

Which all of this was to heavy for just ordinary churches in Asia that did not amount to anything....

The mystery of the seven stars which thou sawest in my right hand, and the seven golden candlesticks. The seven stars are the angels of the seven churches: and the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches. Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks; - Revelation 1:20 - Revelation 2:1

Ephesus - Messianic - Beginning with the Apostle to the Circumcision, Peter
Smyrna - Martyr - Beginning with the Apostle to the Un-Circumcision, Paul
Pergamos - Orthodoxy formed in this time... Pergos is a tower... Needed in the dark ages
Thyatira - Catholicism formed in this time - The spirit of Jezebel is to control and to dominate.
Sardis - Protestantism formed in this time- A sardius is a gem - elegant yet hard and rigid
Philadelphia - Wesleyism formed in this time - To be sanctioned is to acquire it with love.
Laodicea - Charismatic movement formed in this time - Beginning with DL Moody, the first to make money off of ministry

Candlesticks - Seven church congregations
Stars - Individuals within the congregations, all held in the right hand of Christ
Seals - The seven seals sealed each congregation within the lambs book of life
Angels - The current preacher to the congregation.

And I wept much, because no man was found worthy to open and to read the book, neither to look thereon. - Revelation 5:4

If this interpretation is not correct why all the ado?

254811_e2605e7ea7d44a55b55ec8f9edea64a9.png


I believe the rapture occurs at the end of the Laodicean church age

1. As Noah was taken away in Laodicean type times so will we
2. As Noah returned to a basically un-inhabited earth so will we... To reign with Christ a thousand years.

We are living in the age of the great falling away!I believe at the appearing of the Anti-Christ we will have opportunity to receive a QR code type tatoo on our body to make our monitariel transactions

Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thessalonians 2:3
There is no indication whatsoever that each of the seven churches represents an age. None! That comes completely from your imagination. They were actual churches that existed in the first century in the ancient Roman province of Asia and there's no basis whatsoever for seeing them as anything besides that.
 
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rockytopva

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There is no indication whatsoever that each of the seven churches represents an age. None! That comes completely from your imagination. They were actual churches that existed in the first century in the ancient Roman province of Asia and there's no basis whatsoever for seeing them as anything besides that.
Have you ever bothered to read history? The persecuted church was unlike the Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, and other churches to follow...

The Persecuted church - The Second Church - The Apostle Paul

The Smyrnaean Church age began with the Roman Emperor Nero burning down Rome and accusing the Christians of doing it. Smyrna in the Greek means “Myrrh,” in which the Smyrnaean martyrs represented the most pure form of Christianity of all the church ages. The martyred crowns were many as the Smyrnaean church age progressed.

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…

Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Have you ever bothered to read history?
Have you ever bothered to read scripture without trying to add something to it which is not even remotely there?

The persecuted church was unlike the Orthodox, Catholic, Protestant, and other churches to follow...

The Persecuted church - The Second Church - The Apostle Paul

The Smyrnaean Church age began with the Roman Emperor Nero burning down Rome and accusing the Christians of doing it. Smyrna in the Greek means “Myrrh,” in which the Smyrnaean martyrs represented the most pure form of Christianity of all the church ages. The martyred crowns were many as the Smyrnaean church age progressed.

Ye Shall Have Tribulation Ten Days…

Time Persecutor Description
67 AD Nero The Smyrna Church Age begins with Nero setting fire to Rome, and then blaming the Christians
81 AD Domitian Declaration that no Christian should be exempt from punishment, Paul’s Timothy died in 97 AD.
108 AD Trajan and Adrian Severe persecution against Christians from 108 to 138 AD during the time of the Bishop Ignatius
162 AD Marcos Aurelius Marcos Aurelius, commendable in study of philosophy, sharp and fierce towards Christians.
192 AD Severus This persecution was carried out by the will and prejudice of the people and extended into Africa.
235 AD Maximus Numberless Christians were slain without trial and burned indiscriminately in heaps
249 AD Decius Began because of the amazing increase in Christianity, and with the heathen temples forsaken.
257 AD Valerian The martyrs that fell during this persecution were innumerable, their tortures and deaths painful.
274 AD Aurelian A brief persecution that ended with the emperor’s assassination.
303 AD Diocletian The last persecution ended with Constantine’s triumph against Rome in 313 AD
Spare me this nonsense. You are coming up with all of this out of your imagination when there is nothing there in the text itself to support this. It's referring to seven actual churches in the first century who fit the descriptions as given in the text. To turn it into seven ages of the church is just utterly ludicrous nonsense of epic proportions.
 

rockytopva

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Have you ever bothered to read scripture without trying to add something to it which is not even remotely there?


Spare me this nonsense. You are coming up with all of this out of your imagination when there is nothing there in the text itself to support this. It's referring to seven actual churches in the first century who fit the descriptions as given in the text. To turn it into seven ages of the church is just utterly ludicrous nonsense of epic proportions.
Gee... Rejected of the scribes and pharisees. Oh! Boo hoo hoo! Boo hoo hoo!