25 reasons why you should abandon Premillennialism

[WPM]

Beliefs are, by default, incompatible with the truth.

You can speak for yourself. That may be your experience. But for the many believers on this board (of different views) we take our beliefs from the Bible.

 

[WPM]

I did. They apply to the soon to happen; Sixth Seal, the terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath and none of them match with the descriptions of the actual Return.
When that disastrous Day comes, it will change the world and set the scene for all that must happen, leading up to Armageddon and for Jesus to come as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Something any child can see, is not how it is now.

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

This text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

 

[Phil .]

You can speak for yourself. That may be your experience. But for the many believers on this board (of different views) we take our beliefs from the Bible.

Did Jesus?

How could I speak for myself, while I am myself?
Clearly that is not my experience.

 

[WPM]

Did Jesus?

How could I speak for myself, while I am myself?

Are you Jesus?

 

[Phil .]

The sixth seal is the end of the world. It sees the change from time to eternity. It totally demolishes the Premillennial scheme. It shows the conflagration and the destruction of all the wicked. This relays the Amil position. Let us look at the text in Revelation 6:12-17, says, “And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood; and the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind. And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places. And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains; And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb: For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?”

This is the time of God's final wrath upon the earth. The wicked are so afraid of their impending doom that they want the mountains and rocks to fall on them. Think about this: being crushed by mountains and rocks appeals more to them than facing God's wrath. No wicked will survive this.

This text finishes with a rhetorical question. The obvious answer (to those who do not have their own theological agenda) is that no one will survive this climatic event.

Revelation 6:12-17 depicts the conflagration that accompanies the return of Christ. It sees the regeneration of this earth and the destruction of all the wicked. This agrees with multiple Scripture.

· The sun became black
· The moon became as blood
· The stars of heaven fell unto the earth,
· The heaven departs like a scroll
· Every mountain and island are moved out of their places

This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally transformed. This occurs at the climactic return of Christ.

Scripture shows Jesus one and only coming to be totally climactic. When Jesus comes that is it - caught up or caught on, saved or lost, eternal bliss or eternal torment. It is the end. No one survives (see above).

The sixth seal as the end of the world is a symbolic exploration of personal transformation; awakening.

It’s about introspection and the revelation of truth therein.

Revelation 6:12-17 is a metaphorical depiction of the inner turmoil and upheaval that accompanies awakening. The imagery of the sun becoming black, the moon turning to blood, and the stars falling from the sky symbolizes the internal shifts and challenges faced during the undergoing.

Rather than a literal destruction of an objective world and a wicked in it, the passage reflects the inner struggle to confront one's own misunderstandings, beliefs & judgements which remain in stark contrast to truth until upheaved.

The rhetorical question posed at the end underscores the inevitability of this transformative journey, with the recognition that no one can escape the consequences of their actions and behaviors, and no one can undergo the inward oriented journey of self-discovery for you.

As the end of you and your world occurs, the miracle is truly witnessed by no one; all remains exactly the same.

 

[Phil .]

Are you Jesus?

Inward orientation.

That the scripture is about a future event can be clarified & ruled out, by actually attempting to go to, a future.

As it is realized one can not because there isn’t, it is simultaneously realized that if the apocalypse is to occur, it is to occur now only, and not in a past or future, which one can never actually be in or experience.

Introspection, self-reflection, self-examination, contemplation.

I am myself

Again… Jesus never read from nor even heard of the Bible.

For those with ears to hear.

 

[WPM]

The sixth seal as the end of the world is a symbolic exploration of personal transformation; awakening.

It’s about introspection and the revelation of truth therein.

Revelation 6:12-17 is a metaphorical depiction of the inner turmoil and upheaval that accompanies awakening. The imagery of the sun becoming black, the moon turning to blood, and the stars falling from the sky symbolizes the internal shifts and challenges faced during the undergoing.

Rather than a literal destruction of an objective world and a wicked in it, the passage reflects the inner struggle to confront one's own misunderstandings, beliefs & judgements which remain in stark contrast to truth until upheaved.

The rhetorical question posed at the end underscores the inevitability of this transformative journey, with the recognition that no one can escape the consequences of their actions and behaviors, and no one can undergo the inward oriented journey of self-discovery for you.

As the end of you and your world occurs, the miracle is truly witnessed by no one; all remains exactly the same.

Are you a Gnostic?

 

[Phil .]

Are you a Gnostic?

Of course not.

I am myself

 

[Truth7t7]

I did. They apply to the soon to happen; Sixth Seal, the terrible Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath and none of them match with the descriptions of the actual Return.
When that disastrous Day comes, it will change the world and set the scene for all that must happen, leading up to Armageddon and for Jesus to come as King of Kings and Lord of Lords. Something any child can see, is not how it is now.

Is that when all believers are transported magically to Israel/Jerusalem to inhabit the Holy Land?

Beam Me Up Scotty?

 

[marks]

(1) Premillennialism is totally preoccupied with, and dependent upon, one chapter in the Bible – Revelation 20. It interprets the rest of Scripture in the light of its opinion of one lone highly-debated chapter, 3 chapters before the end of the Bible, located in the most figurative and obscure book in the Bible. All end-time Scripture is viewed through the lens of Revelation 20. This is not a very wise way to establish any truth or doctrine. Take this passage out of the equation and Premillennialism has nothing in the inspired pages to support all their main tenets. This is demonstrated by the fact, there is not one single second coming passage in the Bible that teaches 1000 years (or any significant period of time) follows this great glorious event where sin and death continue. Amils have a problem with, and are opposed to, this loose form of hermeneutics and questionable mode of exegesis.

False.

There are many passages detailing the kingdom to come. Zechariah, Ezekiel, Isaiah, Jesus, as well as John prophesied concerning the coming kingdom.

That a passage is 3 chapters from the end of the Bible does not mean it's not true, that's just poor logic.

"most figurative and obscure book of the Bible" Figurative is according to context, and there is a great deal of figurative language throughout the Bible, this is just trying to introduce doubt by calling it obscure.

What exactly make the Revelation obscure?

obscure /ŏb-skyoo͝r′, əb-/

adjective​

1. Deficient in light; dark.
   "the obscure depths of a cave."
2. So faintly perceptible as to lack clear delineation; indistinct.
   "an obscure figure in the fog."
3. Indistinctly heard; faint.

It is actually "the revealing" of Jesus Christ, not obscuring Him. Again, a characturization there to introduce doubt. Except, and in particular this passage in ch. 20, it's plain reading, narrative prophecy, nothing obscure about it.

All Scripture viewed through that chapter? Nonsense! Again, another baseless statement to impugn those who disagree.

Who has a "loose" hermenuetic? The one who reads a passage and believes it? Or the one compiles convoluted arguments to show we should not believe plainly stated Scripture? I think the question answers itself.

If you read the passage and believe what it says, well, it says what it says.

I'm reading more in your "list of 25", it goes on in the same way.

So again I have to ask myself, yes, I could go on, but why??

Much love!

 

[Keraz]

The sixth seal is the end of the world.

It is not that, as there are survivors; People just need to get under cover for the 24 hours of the fires, earthquakes storms and tsunamis, of that terrible Day.
Moving the Sixth Seal from Revelation 6 to after Jesus Returns, is serious error and incurs the curse of Rev 21:18-19
A seal keeps a scroll from being opened. Obviously the 7 Seals must happen before its contents can take place.

Is that when all believers are transported magically to Israel/Jerusalem to inhabit the Holy Land?

You fail to read and understand Gods Plans for His people. Psalms 107, Isaiah 66:18b-21, Romans 9:24-27

The sixth seal as the end of the world is a symbolic exploration of personal transformation; awakening.

What codswobble!
The forthcoming Sixth Seal will change the world and set the scene for all the end time things to happen, leading up to the glorious Return of King Jesus.
As Bible believers, we should know all about it.

 

[Phil .]

What codswobble!
The forthcoming Sixth Seal will change the world and set the scene for all the end time things to happen, leading up to the glorious Return of King Jesus.
As Bible believers, we should know all about it.

In the future, yes?

 

[WPM]

It is not that, as there are survivors; People just need to get under cover for the 24 hours of the fires, earthquakes storms and tsunamis, of that terrible Day.

You never address any counter arguments. To do so would force you to admit your views are wrong. All we have is your evasive private interpretation.

 

[Timtofly]

It is totally destructive climactic return. There is no space for your paradigm. That is why you ignore so much Scripture. Your rebuttal is your own opinions.

So Jesus is not going to restore the earth in your paradigm? Since you deny such a restoration, what is your alternate reality you have in mind?

 

[WPM]

So Jesus is not going to restore the earth in your paradigm? Since you deny such a restoration, what is your alternate reality you have in mind?

When did i say that? You seem to have a reading disorder.

 

[Truth7t7]

You never address any counter arguments. To do so would force you to admit your views are wrong. All we have is your evasive private interpretation.

Keraz believes in "Anglo Israelism", based in the ten lost tribes of Israel

He believes and teaches of a (Coronal Mass Ejection) he teaches that all believers will be magically tele-transported to Israel to start the millennium

Beam Me Up Scotty, Big Smiles!

 

[Keraz]

In the future, yes?

In our very near future.

You never address any counter arguments. To do so would force you to admit your views are wrong. All we have is your evasive private interpretation.

I have hundreds of scriptures, Prophesies which prove the truth of what I write.
You are so blinded and locked into your theories and fables, you cannot understand the truths of Gods plans for our future.
Its going to be tough for all who fail to understand Bible truths.

Keraz believes in "Anglo Israelism", based in the ten lost tribes of Israel

He believes and teaches of a (Coronal Mass Ejection) he teaches that all believers will be magically tele-transported to Israel to start the millennium

It seems you are incapable of reading my posts properly.
I believe in ALL of the Israelites, from all 12 tribes, not just the 2 tribes in the Land now. Also the Gentiles grafted in, all only the true Christian peoples.
Isaiah 30:26a 29-30, says the sun will explode out a massive CME, which will change the world. Malachi 4:1, 2 Peter 3:7

The Christian people will travel by conventional means to the holy Land: Isaiah 66:18b-21, Psalms 107

 

[WPM]

I have hundreds of scriptures, Prophesies which prove the truth of what I write.
You are so blinded and locked into your theories and fables, you cannot understand the truths of Gods plans for our future.
Its going to be tough for all who fail to understand Bible truths.

You have a lovely way of talking for someone who claims to be a Christian.

 

[Timtofly]

When did i say that? You seem to have a reading disorder.

That is what I posted, and you claimed the regeneration of the earth was my wrong paradigm.

 

[WPM]

That is what I posted, and you claimed the regeneration of the earth was my wrong paradigm.

When did i say that?