25 reasons why you should abandon Premillennialism

[Keraz]

Grace and peace to you.

And to you.
My concern and my motivation to post on Christian Prophecy forums is that most have no idea of what the Lord has planned for our future.
This is most unfortunate, as people will be surprised and shocked as events overtake them.

We ARE told what the Lord intends to do and knowing about it will be a big help to get safely through it all.
At the very least we should know we must stand firm and keep our trust in the Lord, as He deals retribution to His enemies. Romans 2:18, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17

 

[Timtofly]

You present 2 Peter 3:5-9 as supposed evidence that the day of the Lord lasts exactly 1,000 years. However, Revelation 20 indicates that Satan's little season occurs after (please note “after”) the 1,000-year binding. This means that the Premillennialist insistence upon presenting 2 Peter 3 as proof for a 1,000-year day of the Lord is totally demolished.

If the day of the Lord is exactly 1000 years, and the burning up of the heavens and earth occurs at the end of that time, where then does Satan's little season occur?

It does not say "a day of the Lord is equal to a thousand years." That is your wording. As usual: you add unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

What is the point of this post then?

If a Day to God is the the Day of the Lord and a Day is as a thousand years, how is that not equal and defining this symbolic phrase Day of the Lord?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Should it say a thousand years of the Lord is as a 24 hours?

Why does time have to stop or reality stop at the specific end of a time period? What is wrong with a little season after the Day of the Lord?

Peter does not say the Day of the Lord ends in a blaze of fire. The Day of the Lord does not start with the heavens dissolved and the works of earth burned up. The Day of the Lord comes; meaning that when the Day of the Lord happens something else must happen first. Obviously the Day of the Lord cannot happen with the world, until all sin and wickedness have been removed.

That is what the baptism of fire is for. John the Baptist was expecting that the first time around. The Day of the Lord has not come yet.

No where in 2 Peter 3 nor Revelation 20 states that the thousand years happen between the first advent and the second advent. That is your wording. As usual: you add unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

 

[Timtofly]

60 minutes?

Why not?

 

[Timtofly]

So, you know the approximate date of Christ's return, Keraz? Like, give or take maybe a week or two? Oh, and His second second ~ repitition of 'second' intentional, so, really third ~ return, since you're a premillennialist?

Grace and peace to you.

Actually people leave out Genesis 2 and the first Day of Lord. The first Day of the Lord was also a thousand year period. That is what some do Remember like Peter in 2 Peter 3. There is a basis for Peter's:

"be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Some people do Remember Genesis 2, as given in the 4th Commandment.

 

[PinSeeker]

Actually people leave out Genesis 2 and the first Day of Lord.

Hmm, well, some people don't recognize some very important things regarding Genesis 1 and Genesis 2.

The first Day of the Lord was also a thousand year period.

<chuckles> Disagree.

That is what some do Remember like Peter in 2 Peter 3.

Well, I wouldn't characterize it as "remembering"...

There is a basis for Peter's:

"be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Well, there is a context, for sure. Peter is referring directly to Psalm 90:4. There is no passage of time for God, the great I AM. What may seem ~ and actually be ~ a long, long time for us is not a long time at all for the Lord, Who... well, Who at all times is. And this is Peter's context, which he explicitly states in the very next verse: "The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward (us)..."

Some people do Remember Genesis 2, as given in the 4th Commandment.

We're certainly commanded to remember the Sabbath Day, yes.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[PinSeeker]

My concern and my motivation to post on Christian Prophecy forums is that most have no idea of what the Lord has planned for our future.
This is most unfortunate, as people will be surprised and shocked as events overtake them.

Hmm, well it seems to me, Keraz, like you're preaching ~ arguing, rather ~ with the choir.

And this does nothing to explain your arguing with me, much less why you characterize my disagreement with you here as a "scathing rejection of Biblical truths" and that I am "indicted" by... anything. I don't reject Biblical truths in any way, shape, form, or fashion, Keraz, but I do think some of those truths to be at least somewhat different than you suppose them to be.

And I would say, too, Keraz, to what you say here that... Christians will not be overtaken.

Really, the whole point of John's Revelation is that Jesus wins. And so, we do, too, with Him. The principal theme of Revelation is that God rules history and He will bring it to its consummation in Christ. You probably know that Revelation is the only book in the whole Bible with a blessing pronounced for reading it. If you didn't, well, then, now you do. God gave us Revelation not to tickle our fancy, but to strengthen our hearts. My point is, getting the timing and the nature of the millennium and the order of events at Jesus's return and thereafter is really not so important... Disagreements between premillennialists, postmillennialists, amillennialists, and preterists (and the variations of the four) are really not so terribly important to resolve. It makes for great conversation, for sure, and that's all well and good, but contention (to put it somewhat mildly) is... unnecessary. I think it a hindrance of sorts that some can unwittingly develop an unhealthy interest in these things, and therefore to try to “solve the puzzle," as it were. They often end up tickling the fancy, and missing the real point, which is ~ as I said ~ Jesus wins; God rules history (though it may not seem like it to us at least at times), and He will bring it to its consummation in Christ.

We ARE told what the Lord intends to do...

Agree...

...knowing about it will be a big help to get safely through it all.

Again, for Christians, those who really are in Christ, we will get through safely; God, by the work of the Holy Spirit, will see to that. And I would just say reading and hearing and keeping John's Revelation will bless us and keep us optimistic through it all... This is exactly what God, through John, tells us from the outset of Revelation (1:3).

At the very least we should know we must stand firm and keep our trust in the Lord, as He deals retribution to His enemies. Romans 2:18, Hebrews 10:27, 2 Peter 3:7, Revelation 6:12-17

Right, well, I agree; see above.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Keraz]

for Christians, those who really are in Christ, we will get through safely; God, by the work of the Holy Spirit, will see to that. And I would just say reading and hearing and keeping John's Revelation will bless us and keep us optimistic through it all... This is exactly what God, through John, tells us from the outset of Revelation (1:3).

I do not see this attitude as good enough.
God has given us, in over 100 Prophesies, in great detail exactly what He intends to do about His Creation, which has gone wrong again. Jesus says: As in the days of Noah, so it will be when I come....when you least expect Me. Matthew 24:37-44
Thos Prophecy does not refer to the glorious Return, that will not be unexpected, but to the sudden and shocking Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath. The next Prophesied event, proved by how Jesus stopped His quote of Isaiah 61:1-2, halfway thru verse 2.

Everything will be either destroyed or changed, a One world Govt will be formed and we Christian peoples will go to live in all of the Holy Land. The details of this scenario are comprehensively Written in our Bbles.
But no: people simply can't see these truths, they either ignore them, throw them all into the past, or wrongly apply them to Jewish Israel.
And what is worse, many grip onto fables and follow false teachers, to their shame and eventual loss of rewards.

However, this state of affairs is the Lord's doing. He has blocked the understanding of most for His own reasons. Matthew 11:25-26
So when the great test of our faith comes; and be sure it will; Ezekiel 33:33, many will fall away from their faith. It will be the Day when Jesus uses His 'winnowing fork'. Matthew 3:12

 

[PinSeeker]

I do not see this attitude as good enough.

Hm. Interesting. Well, I see it as complete assurance, which, is faith (Hebrews 11:1), which is of God, which is... well, for now, as good as good can be. Yeah, interesting.

God has given us, in over 100 Prophesies, in great detail exactly what He intends to do about His Creation, which has gone wrong again.

Um... not sure what you mean by "again"... But yes, it's certainly not what it was made to be, and it is not yet that to which it will be restored. But God will surely do it, yes.

Jesus says: As in the days of Noah, so it will be when I come....when you least expect Me. Matthew 24:37-44
Thos Prophecy does not refer to the glorious Return , that will not be unexpected...

It does; we disagree; He's expanding a bit on what He has just said in verses 29-31. And verses 32-35 are, of course, part of the same discourse, but a brief interlude.

...but to the sudden and shocking Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath.

Ah, well, I say that when He returns, it will be "the sudden and shocking Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath"...

The next Prophesied event, proved by how Jesus stopped His quote of Isaiah 61:1-2, halfway thru verse 2.

...and this is a separation of two things that are actually one and the same. You may, then, say that I deny the existence of God's millennium, but such a thing would not be and is not true in any shape, form, or fashion.

Everything will be either destroyed or changed...

Hmmm, "destroyed"... If you mean wiped from existence, then I disagree with that also. God says He's making all things new, not "making all new things"...

...a One world Govt will be formed...

Ugh. Well, I agree in a certain sense...

...and we Christian peoples will go to live in all of the Holy Land.

The Holy Land... Do you mean, that little sliver of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea, Keraz? I hope not; you might note what Jesus says in Matthew 5:5...

The details of this scenario are comprehensively Written in our Bibles...

Hmmm... Some misconstrue these details... But, like I said, it's okay. Just faith like a mustard seed is all that's needed...

But no: people simply can't see these truths, they either ignore them, throw them all into the past, or wrongly apply them to Jewish Israel.

I don't really disagree with this, but I think there is another possibility or two regarding why they can't see...

And what is worse, many grip onto fables and follow false teachers, to their shame and eventual loss of rewards.

Sure.

...many will fall away from their faith...

...which means they were never in possession of saving faith ~ which is the gift of God ~ to begin with.

It will be the Day when Jesus uses His 'winnowing fork'. Matthew 3:12

Yes, He will separate the wheat from the tares, certainly.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[WPM]

The Bible itself tells us there will be a thousand year rule of Jesus as King of Kings, after He Returns.
I am not a pre[mill rapture believer. I reject any theory of a rapture to heaven.

But the 6000 years since Adam is not up yet.
Jesus WILL Return as He Promised and your scathing rejection of Bible truths, is an indictment against you.

It is up a long time ago. Christian has shown you a better accurate time-plate which you reject

 

[Keraz]

It is up a long time ago. Christian has shown you a better accurate time-plate which you reject

I rejected Christian Gedge's. timeline as it relied on 490 year tranches. They do not fit the whole of Gods plan for mankind.
But the timeline I have presented does fit with history and the Bible.
You fail to make any valid rebuttal to the evidence presented and just make wild and critical accusations, showing the paucity of your case.

 

[Keraz]

Hm. Interesting. Well, I see it as complete assurance, which, is faith (Hebrews 11:1), which is of God, which is... well, for now, as good as good can be. Yeah, interesting.

We will all stand before God in Judgment. Will He ask you why you thought that about a quarter of the Bible was unimportant and not worthy of proper study?

not sure what you mean by "again".

Jesus says the world will again be like it was in the days of Noah. They just got on with their lives, but failed to acknowledge their Creator, or give Him praise and worship. He wiped them out with water, then promised to never again use water or to so nearly kill them all the next time. Next time He will use fire, as over 70 Prophesies attest. Psalms 11:4-6, +

I say that when He returns, it will be "the sudden and shocking Day of the Lords vengeance and wrath".

But that is not what the Prophetic Word says.
The glorious Return of King Jesus, when He simply disposes of the attacking armies, will be known to the exact day by anyone with Bible knowledge; as coming 1260 days after the beast stops the daily offerings in the new Temple and sits in it, declaring himself to be God.

The sudden worldwide disaster will be the Sixth Seal event. Which must come at least 10 years before Jesus Returns.

The Holy Land... Do you mean, that little sliver of land on the eastern end of the Mediterranean Sea, Keraz? I hope not; you might note what Jesus says in Matthew 5:5...

I did think you were more knowledgeable about the Bible. Try reading Genesis 15:18
Matthew 5:8 will be true in the Millennium and for Eternity.

Ugh. Well, I agree in a certain sense...

Ugh to you, as you again fail to read Prophesies like Daniel 7:23 and Revelation 13, of the end times world government.

I don't really disagree with this, but I think there is another possibility or two regarding why they can't see.

One I omitted, is that people simply don't want to know about what God has planned for our future. Every Pastor I have known is like that. Too controversial and likely to cause upset. Those who avoid that subject are better than those who teach false theories. as all will be called to account for their words spoken.

which means they were never in possession of saving faith ~ which is the gift of God ~ to begin with.

I disagree with OS:AS, as scripture says several times that we can have our names erased from the Book of Life.
I knew a man who had an amazing conversion, meeting Jesus and becoming a strong Christian, but he fell away and he knew that he had lost his assurance of Eternal life.

Yes, He will separate the wheat from the tares, certainly.

This has to be a very dramatic event. The Prophetic Word tells us all about it.
You seem to have no idea of what. why or when it will happen, Why?

 

[WPM]

I rejected Christian Gedge's. timeline as it relied on 490 year tranches. They do not fit the whole of Gods plan for mankind.
But the timeline I have presented does fit with history and the Bible.
You fail to make any valid rebuttal to the evidence presented and just make wild and critical accusations, showing the paucity of your case.

He totally dismantled your bias fluid plan. It will shift again when your prophecies fail to come to pass. I hope you publicly repent everywhere you have made these false prophecies and then never again submit such folly to others.

 

[PinSeeker]

We will all stand before God in Judgment.

Very true.

Will He ask you why you thought that about a quarter of the Bible was unimportant and not worthy of proper study?

Quite a ridiculous insinuation.

You seem to have no idea of what. why or when it will happen, Why?

LOL! I just don't buy several of your ideas, Keraz.

So, that's it. So long for now, Keraz. Grace and peace to you.

 

[Keraz]

I hope you publicly repent everywhere you have made these false prophecies and then never again submit such folly to others.

Nasty and bitter accusations.
Is my post #176, with 45 scripture refs and known dates, a false prophecy? You fail to even consider it, let alone refute it.

I sure would not like to be in your shoes as we stand before God, James 3:1, 1 Timothy 6:3-4,

 

[WPM]

Quite a ridiculous insinuation.


LOL! I just don't buy several of your ideas, Keraz.

So, that's it. So long for now, Keraz. Grace and peace to you.

Bro, when they start the ad hominem it is normally because they have no response. I would take it as a complement.

 

[PinSeeker]

Bro, when they start the ad hominem it is normally because they have no response. I would take it as a complement.

I don't really take it as ad hominem or any kind of attack, it's just anger, pride, and... well, just sinful in a few different ways.

You know... <chuckles>, if it were okay to add to the Bible, I might add internet bullying as the eleventh commandment...

Anyway, yes, to be on the receiving end is not pleasant, of course, but we just have to remember that our identity is in Christ, and rest in that, right? And, at some point, there is no response, except to gracefully let it go, return it with grace, and possibly withdraw ~ gracefully, of course.

Grace and peace to you, WPM.

 

[WPM]

I don't really take it as ad hominem or any kind of attack, it's just anger, pride, and... well, just sinful in a few different ways.

You know... <chuckles>, if it were okay to add to the Bible, I might add internet bullying as the eleventh commandment...

Anyway, yes, to be on the receiving end is not pleasant, of course, but we just have to remember that our identity is in Christ, and rest in that, right? And, at some point, there is no response, except to gracefully let it go, return it with grace, and possibly withdraw ~ gracefully, of course.

Grace and peace to you, WPM.

Totally agree!

 

[WPM]

What is the point of this post then?

If a Day to God is the the Day of the Lord and a Day is as a thousand years, how is that not equal and defining this symbolic phrase Day of the Lord?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Should it say a thousand years of the Lord is as a 24 hours?

Why does time have to stop or reality stop at the specific end of a time period? What is wrong with a little season after the Day of the Lord?

Peter does not say the Day of the Lord ends in a blaze of fire. The Day of the Lord does not start with the heavens dissolved and the works of earth burned up. The Day of the Lord comes; meaning that when the Day of the Lord happens something else must happen first. Obviously the Day of the Lord cannot happen with the world, until all sin and wickedness have been removed.

That is what the baptism of fire is for. John the Baptist was expecting that the first time around. The Day of the Lord has not come yet.

No where in 2 Peter 3 nor Revelation 20 states that the thousand years happen between the first advent and the second advent. That is your wording. As usual: you add unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

Really? It arrives as a day of destruction. Read it without your Premil glasses on and you will see what it is saying. The coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic. There will be no survivors. The evidence for this is overwhelming.

2 Samuel 22:9: “There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.”

Job 41:20-21: “Out of his nostrils goeth smoke, as out of a seething pot or caldron. His breath kindleth coals, and a flame goeth out of his mouth.”

Psalm 18:7-8: “the earth shook and trembled; the foundations also of the hills moved and were shaken, because he was wroth. There went up a smoke out of his nostrils, and fire out of his mouth devoured: coals were kindled by it.”

The Psalmist says, in Psalm 50:1-6, “The mighty God, even the LORD, hath spoken, and called the earth from the rising of the sun unto the going down thereof. Out of Zion, the perfection of beauty, God hath shined. Our God shall come, and shall not keep silence: a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him. He shall call to the heavens from above, and to the earth, that he may judge his people. Gather my saints together unto me; those that have made a covenant with me by sacrifice. And the heavens shall declare his righteousness: for God is judge himself.”

Here we see a vivid record of the one final future coming of the Lord, the gathering in of the saints and the fiery destruction of the world/wicked. Whilst it is clearly a day of rescue for the saints of God, as in Noah and Lot’s day, it is a day of awful wrath and destruction for the wicked. Those that are left behind are undoubtedly the recipients of this awful final heavenly wrath (as seen elsewhere in Scripture). The Psalmist says of this final event: “a fire shall devour before him, and it shall be very tempestuous round about him.”

This reading outlines the gracious rescue that occurs before the final judgment and the end of this present world. The passage expressly declares, “Gather my saints together unto me.” It is expressly the time where the saints of God finally receive their reward. Significantly, it is seen to coincide with the fiery destruction that comes from heaven, destroying all those that love not the Lord’s Coming.

Psalm 68: 1-3 declares, “Let God arise, let his enemies be scattered: let them also that hate him flee before him. As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God. But let the righteous be glad; let them rejoice before God: yea, let them exceedingly rejoice.”

Psalm 97:3-5 testifies, “A fire goeth before him, and burneth up his enemies round about. His lightnings enlightened the world: the earth saw, and trembled. The hills melted like wax at the presence of the LORD, at the presence of the Lord of the whole earth.”

Isaiah 11:4-5: “But with righteousness shall he judge the poor, and reprove with equity for the meek of the earth: and he shall smite the earth with the rod of his mouth, and with the breath of his lips shall he slay the wicked. And righteousness shall be the girdle of his loins, and faithfulness the girdle of his reins.”

Isaiah 13:9-11: “Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars (kowkab) of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.”

The current universe and stars are all going to be changed when He comes. Christ will be the eternal light on the new earth! The whole description indicates this corrupt earth and the heavens (outer space) we know now will be no more when Jesus comes.

Isaiah 30:33: “For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; he hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.”

Isaiah 34:1-4, 8: “Come near, ye nations, to hear; and hearken, ye people: let the earth hear, and all that is therein; the world, and all things that come forth of it. For the indignation of the LORD is upon all nations, and his fury upon all their armies: he hath utterly destroyed them, he hath delivered them to the slaughter. Their slain also shall be cast out, and their stink shall come up out of their carcases, and the mountains shall be melted with their blood. And all the host of heaven shall be dissolved, and the heavens shall be rolled together as a scroll: and all their host shall fall down, as the leaf falleth off from the vine, and as a falling fig from the fig tree … For it is the day of the LORD's vengeance, and the year of recompences for the controversy of Zion.”

This is total destruction – for who and what is left behind. This is talking about the topography of the physical earth and starry host being totally destroyed. There are no survivors!

Isaiah 34 is speaking about the physical change that affects the earth, heavens and elements when Jesus comes. Premil has to often change the meaning of Hebrew and Greek words in order to get that doctrine to fit. Premil explains away the literal meaning of text after text and replaces with its alternative definition. This is not the way that Scripture should be approached. This is classic eisegesis. There is so much Scripture that forbids the Premil theory that Premil is forced to spiritualize away the clearest and most literal of Scripture, ironically it literalizes the one book that is the most symbolic in Scripture (Revelation). This alone is grounds to reject the doctrine.

Isaiah 66:15-17: “For, behold, the LORD will come with fire, and with his chariots like a whirlwind, to render his anger with fury, and his rebuke with flames of fire. For by fire and by his sword will the LORD plead with all flesh: and the slain of the LORD shall be many. They that sanctify themselves, and purify themselves in the gardens behind one tree in the midst, eating swine's flesh, and the abomination, and the mouse, shall be consumed together, saith the LORD.”

Joel 2:1-3 says, “for the day of the LORD cometh, for it is nigh at hand; A day of darkness and of gloominess, a day of clouds and of thick darkness, as the morning spread upon the mountains: a great people and a strong; there hath not been ever the like, neither shall be any more after it, even to the years of many generations. A fire devoureth before them; and behind them a flame burneth: the land is as the garden of Eden before them, and behind them a desolate wilderness; yea, and nothing shall escape them.”

 

[WPM]

What is the point of this post then?

If a Day to God is the the Day of the Lord and a Day is as a thousand years, how is that not equal and defining this symbolic phrase Day of the Lord?

"But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

Should it say a thousand years of the Lord is as a 24 hours?

Joel 2:10-11: “The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: the sun and the moon shall be dark, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for the day of the LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?”

Nahum 1:1, 5-6 says, “God is jealous, and the LORD revengeth; the LORD revengeth, and is furious; the LORD will take vengeance on his adversaries, and he reserveth wrath for his enemies …The mountains quake at him, and the hills melt, and the earth is burned at his presence, yea, the world, and all that dwell therein. Who can stand before his indignation? and who can abide in the fierceness of his anger? his fury is poured out like fire, and the rocks are thrown down by him.”

Malachi 4:1 says, “For behold, the day is coming, burning like an oven, and all the proud, yes, all who do wickedly will be stubble. And the day which is coming shall burn them up.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

Jesus said in Luke 17:26-30, “as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded; But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all. Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.”

How many wicked survived in Noah's day?
How many wicked survived in Sodom?

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

For example, I Thessalonians 5:2-3: “the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night. For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

II Thessalonians 1:7-10 says, “the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power; When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

2 Peter 3:10-13 supports this, saying, "the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear, “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall shepherd them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.”

Verses 17-18 says, “I saw an angel standing in the sun; and he cried with a loud voice, saying to all the fowls that fly in the midst of heaven, Come and gather yourselves together unto the supper of the great God; That ye may eat the flesh of kings, and the flesh of captains, and the flesh of mighty men, and the flesh of horses, and of them that sit on them, and the flesh of all men, both free and bond, both small and great. And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone. The loipoy (or remaining ones) those left behind were slain with the sword of him that sat upon the horse, which sword proceeded out of his mouth: and all the fowls were filled with their flesh.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

Revelation 20:11-15 – 21:1-5: “And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea. And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God. And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away (or departed). And he that sat upon the throne said, Behold, I make all things new.”

Amils take this literal! This is complete, wholesale, and total destruction - for those left behind. There are no survivors!

You know, in both of these examples, all the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed. So will it be when He appears. All the elect were immediately and totally rescued and all the wicked were immediately and totally destroyed, so will it be when He appears.

It is both the suddenness and the scale of the destruction happening that is enlightening for the end-time Bible student. No wicked survive. We are looking at utter and wholesale destruction. That is because the wicked are not qualified to inherit the new earth. Mortals are not welcome. Corruption cannot inherit incorruption.

All of these Old Testament passages agree with the climactic New Testament detail pertaining to the second coming that proves the Amil paradigm. What do you have? Nothing! All you have is the misinterpretation of one apocalyptic passage. That is theologically insane and abysmal hermeneutics. Your understanding of the same conflicts with multiple Old Testament and New Testament passages that show the coming of Christ to be the end.

 

[Keraz]

The coming of the Lord will be fiery and climactic.

Revelation 19:11-21 refutes you, There is no fire when Jesus Returns. That happens on His Day of wrath, years before the Return. Revelation 6:12-17, Isaiah 66:15-17, 2 Peter 3:8, +

It is evident that there are two separate ‘Days of the Lord’ in which the Lord acts to punish His enemies. The Sixth Seal, the Day of the Lord’s vengeance and wrath, is the next prophesied event that we can expect, of a worldwide judgement/punishment by fire from the sun, which will clear and cleanse the holy Land. Most clearly described in Isaiah 30:25-30, Isaiah 63:1-6 and Habakkuk 3:12 ‘Furiously You traverse the earth, in anger You trample down the nations.’ But the Lord is not seen: Psalms 11:4-6, Psalms 18:11

Then, much later, at the Return of Jesus, seen by all people, is the Sixth and Seventh Bowl fulfilment, Revelation 16:17-24...the great Day of the Sovereign Lord, when He destroys the armies of the Anti Christ and chains Satan up. No fire is involved. Revelation 19:19-21, Zechariah 14:3-5