25 reasons why you should abandon Premillennialism

[Keraz]

There are no survivors to populate your supposed future millennium.

Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 refute you.

When do you believe "the last days" began, when do you believe that they are going to finish?

Now; and when Jesus Returns.
The Bible, from Revelation 6:12 to Revelation 21:1, gives us the sequence of events, soon to commence.

The Bible nowhere teaches your 7000 years theory

A demonstration of your Bible ignorance.
The time periods as given to us in the Bible add to 4000 years Adam to Jesus. Then we have recorded nearly another 2000 years between Jesus' Ascension and very soon His Return to reign for the final thousand years, which matches the 'day' when God rested after Creation.

Your denial of these plain facts, is an indictment against you.

 

[WPM]

Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 refute you.

Now; and when Jesus Returns.
The Bible, from Revelation 6:12 to Revelation 21:1, gives us the sequence of events, soon to commence.

A demonstration of your Bible ignorance.
The time periods as given to us in the Bible add to 4000 years Adam to Jesus. Then we have recorded nearly another 2000 years between Jesus' Ascension and very soon His Return to reign for the final thousand years, which matches the 'day' when God rested after Creation.

Your denial of these plain facts, is an indictment against you.

If the last days are now, and end when Jesus comes, how can you place Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 in a future age in-between "this age" and "the age to come"? This alone disallows your thesis.

Isaiah 2:2-4 says, speaking of the Lord’s first Advent, “And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it. And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more."

This is another reason to reject Premil. This is why I struggle with the Premil mode of hermeneutics. They tend to explain away the fuller revelation of the New Testament by their opinion of, and fixation with, the old covenant and the Old Testament. They can literally make it and Revelation say whatever they want.

Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 are talking about te last days, which end when Jesus comes.

 

[Keraz]

If the last days are now and end when Jesus comes, how can you place Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 in a future age in-between "this age" and "the age to come"? This alone disallows your thesis.

There is confusion with the 'last days' and the 'end times', that are the same: The time prior to the glorious Return of Jesus. Maybe as much as 100 years. We are in that time now, I believe very close, not more than 20 years before the Return.
I have no 'thesis' about the Prophesies in Isaiah and Zechariah. They are clear that King Jesus is present on earth to receive worship.

Your AMill belief is a disturbing contradiction of plainly stated scripture. You seem to be careless and dismissive of Biblical facts, such as the time periods that God carefully gave us, which do amazingly; add up to 3 exact 2000 year tranches, with the third one within 10 years of completion.
Then comes the final thousand years, as indisputably stated in Rev 20. This shows the mathematical genius of God and His use of special or sacred numbers, like 7, 12, 40, 1000.

 

[WPM]

There is confusion with the 'last days' and the 'end times', that are the same: The time prior to the glorious Return of Jesus. Maybe as much as 100 years. We are in that time now, I believe very close, not more than 20 years before the Return.
I have no 'thesis' about the Prophesies in Isaiah and Zechariah. They are clear that King Jesus is present on earth to receive worship.

Your AMill belief is a disturbing contradiction of plainly stated scripture. You seem to be careless and dismissive of Biblical facts, such as the time periods that God carefully gave us, which do amazingly; add up to 3 exact 2000 year tranches, with the third one within 10 years of completion.
Then comes the final thousand years, as indisputably stated in Rev 20. This shows the mathematical genius of God and His use of special or sacred numbers, like 7, 12, 40, 1000.

You are not answering the question: If the last days are now and end when Jesus comes, how can you place Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 in a future age in-between "this age" and "the age to come"?

 

[Timtofly]

• When Jesus said He was a door in John 10:9, did that mean He was a wooden door?
• When He said He was the Vine in John 15:1, did that mean that He was a tree?
• When He said He was a Lamb in Revelation 13:8, did that mean that He was a literal sheep?
• When He said He was a Lion in Revelation 5:5, did that mean that He was a literal big cat?
• When He said He was bread in John 6:35 did that mean that He was a literal food?

We are talking about literal numbers, not words describing one's work and purpose in life.

 

[WPM]

We are talking about literal numbers, not words describing one's work and purpose in life.

Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

 

[WPM]

We are talking about literal numbers, not words describing one's work and purpose in life.

How long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

 

[Keraz]

You are not answering the question: If the last days are now and end when Jesus comes, how can you place Isaiah 2:1-6 and Zechariah 14:16-21 in a future age in-between "this age" and "the age to come"?

Because Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind, is not completed when Jesus Returns. He must reign until all enemies are destroyed, which does not happen until the final thousand years are over. Revelation 20:7-10

I answer your questions, you avoid the truths I present.

 

[WPM]

Because Gods 7000 year Plan for mankind, is not completed when Jesus Returns. He must reign until all enemies are destroyed, which does not happen until the final thousand years are over. Revelation 20:7-10

I answer your questions, you avoid the truths I present.

How about showing where this in the Bible? All you have is your own opinions, from what I can see.

 

[Timtofly]

Do you accept that the figure “a thousand” (including a thousand years) and ten thousand are repeatedly used in Scripture to denote a vast indeterminate amount or period of time?

It would help if you provided these verses, instead of just assuming something about your examples.

2 Peter 3 is not about an indeterminate length of time. A Day of the Lord is equal to a thousand years. There is nothing in Scripture to imply otherwise. Revelation 20 is the Day of the Lord, because the book of Revelation is about the Second Coming. 2 Peter 3 is also about the Second Coming in reference to the Day of the Lord.

 

[Timtofly]

How long is the “one hour” that the beast reigns with the “ten kings” in Revelation 17:12 is? i.e. is it sixty minutes?

That would be about the length of the battle of Armageddon.

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them."

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."

My opinion is that Satan deceieved these 10 kings and promised them kingdoms if they could defeat the Lamb at Armageddon. Obviously we already know the outcome.

 

[WPM]

It would help if you provided these verses, instead of just assuming something about your examples.

2 Peter 3 is not about an indeterminate length of time. A Day of the Lord is equal to a thousand years. There is nothing in Scripture to imply otherwise. Revelation 20 is the Day of the Lord, because the book of Revelation is about the Second Coming. 2 Peter 3 is also about the Second Coming in reference to the Day of the Lord.

You present 2 Peter 3:5-9 as supposed evidence that the day of the Lord lasts exactly 1,000 years. However, Revelation 20 indicates that Satan's little season occurs after (please note “after”) the 1,000-year binding. This means that the Premillennialist insistence upon presenting 2 Peter 3 as proof for a 1,000-year day of the Lord is totally demolished.

If the day of the Lord is exactly 1000 years, and the burning up of the heavens and earth occurs at the end of that time, where then does Satan's little season occur?

It does not say "a day of the Lord is equal to a thousand years." That is your wording. As usual: you add unto the inspired text to support your beliefs.

 

[WPM]

That would be about the length of the battle of Armageddon.

"These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them."

"And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army."

My opinion is that Satan deceieved these 10 kings and promised them kingdoms if they could defeat the Lamb at Armageddon. Obviously we already know the outcome.

60 minutes?

 

[Keraz]

How about showing where this in the Bible? All you have is your own opinions, from what I can see.

I have posted the Biblical timeline here and on other forums. The given times add perfectly to 2000 years Adam to Abraham, 2000 years Abraham to Jesus and now the third tranche of 2000 years is almost completed.
You can view it and other proofs of the Millennium reign of Jesus on the website; logostelos.info

Of course no amount of proof will change the mind of someone who has committed much time and effort to a doctrine that suits their paradigm. Only as things take place, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:5-6

 

[WPM]

I have posted the Biblical timeline here and on other forums. The given times add perfectly to 2000 years Adam to Abraham, 2000 years Abraham to Jesus and now the third tranche of 2000 years is almost completed.
You can view it and other proofs of the Millennium reign of Jesus on the website; logostelos.info

Of course no amount of proof will change the mind of someone who has committed much time and effort to a doctrine that suits their paradigm. Only as things take place, will understanding come. Isaiah 35:5-6

You are not showing me hard Scripture you are presenting your own opinions.

 

[Keraz]

Here are 45 Scriptures; plus known facts and recorded times:

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.
1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5
3386.5 + 586 = 3972.5 years from 1BC to when Adam was Created.

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acclamation as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.

3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

June 2023 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1993 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday
1993 + 4000 = 5993 years, is where we are now. 5993 + 7 = 6000 years

2023 AD + 7 = 2030 AD
Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.

4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

The final wrap up and the Great White Throne judgement of all people: 7000 years.

Revelation 22...I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth and the Holy City, made ready like a bride... A new Beginning!

 

[PinSeeker]

Here are 45 Scriptures; plus known facts and recorded times:

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.
1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5
3386.5 + 586 = 3972.5 years from 1BC to when Adam was Created.

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acclamation as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.

3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

June 2023 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1993 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday
1993 + 4000 = 5993 years, is where we are now. 5993 + 7 = 6000 years

2023 AD + 7 = 2030 AD
Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.

4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

The final wrap up and the Great White Throne judgement of all people: 7000 years.

Revelation 22...I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth and the Holy City, made ready like a bride... A new Beginning!

So, you know the approximate date of Christ's return, Keraz? Like, give or take maybe a week or two? Oh, and His second second ~ repitition of 'second' intentional, so, really third ~ return, since you're a premillennialist?

Grace and peace to you.

 

[WPM]

Here are 45 Scriptures; plus known facts and recorded times:

7000 years from the Creation to the Completion of Mankind:

Genesis 1:27 Adam was created in 3972.5 BC subtracted back to 586 BCE, from:

Gen 5:3 Seth +130, Gen 5:6 Enoch +105, Gen 5:9 Kenan +90, Gen 5:12 Mahalalel +70, Gen 5:15 Jared +65, Gen 5:18 Enoch +162, Gen 5:21 Methuselah +65, Gen 5:25 Lamech +187, Gen 5:28 Noah+182, Gen 7:6 The Flood came when Noah was +600, Gen 11:10 Our year 2314.5 BC
Arpachshad +2 - born to Shem after the flood. Gen 11:12 Selah +35, Gen 11:14 Heber +30, Gen 11:16 Peleg +34, Gen 11:18 Reu +30, Gen 11:20 Serug +32, Gen 11:22 Nahor +30 , Gen 11:24 Terah +29, Gen 11:26 Abram +70, Abram was +52 when God called him and they left Ur. Our year 1970.5 BCE He lived in Haran for 23 years, then went to Canaan at age 75. Genesis 12:4 Total years so far = 2000

Gen 17:1, Abraham was 99 when the Covenant was made with God. +47 Genesis 17:1-8
Galatians 3:17 Paul states that the Law was given +430 after the Covenant. Total years elapsed until the Exodus – 2477, in our year 1493.5 BC.
1 Kings 6:1 The Temple construction starts, in the 4th year of King Solomon +480 since the Torah was given at the Exodus.. 1 Kings 11:42 Solomon 40 minus 4 = +36, 1 Kings 14:21 Rehoboam +17, 1 Kings 15:2 Abijah +3, 2 Chron 16:13 Asa +41, 1 Kings 22:42 Jehoshaphat +25, 2 Kings 8:17 Jehoram +8, 2 Kings 8:26 Ahaziah +1, 2 Kings 11:1-3 Athaliah +6, 2 Kings 12:1 Joash +40, 2 Kings 14:2 Amaziah +29, 2 Kings 15:1-2 Azariah +52, 2 Kings 15:33 Jotham +16, 2 Kings 16:2 Ahaz +16, 2 Kings 18:1-2 Hezekiah +29, 2 Kings 21:1 Manasseh +55, 2 Kings 21:19 Amon +2, 2 Kings 22:1 Josiah +31, 2 Kings 23:31 Jehoahaz +3mths, 2 Kings 23:36 Jehoiakim +11, 2 Kings 24:8 Jehoichin +3mths, 2 Kings 24:18-20 Zedekiah +11, who ruled until the Babylonian captivity in our year of 586 BC.

Total elapsed years to the first exile of Judah = 3386.5
3386.5 + 586 = 3972.5 years from 1BC to when Adam was Created.

586 BC + 613.5 years + 2 comes to 29.5/30 AD, the date of Jesus’ acclamation as King of Israel. Plus 2 to include the total number of elapsed years, as our calendar system counts years from their commencement.

3386.5 + 613.5 = 4000 years from Adam to Jesus.

June 2023 AD - 29.5/30 AD = 1993 years since Jesus made His triumphal entry into Jerusalem on the first Palm Sunday
1993 + 4000 = 5993 years, is where we are now. 5993 + 7 = 6000 years

2023 AD + 7 = 2030 AD
Exactly 2000 years for the present Church age, until Jesus Returns.

4000 since Abraham, 6000 since Adam. Next comes the 1000 year reign of King Jesus.

The final wrap up and the Great White Throne judgement of all people: 7000 years.

Revelation 22...I saw a new Heaven and a new Earth and the Holy City, made ready like a bride... A new Beginning!

Every time the 6000 years are up and are breached Premils invent another date for the beginning. This starts to get old after a while. It is just a manipulation of Scripture and of history to support a false doctrine. It is all a big ponzi scheme. No man knows when Jesus is coming. Your date-setting is foolish. It will be exposed.

 

[Keraz]

So, you know the approximate date of Christ's return, Keraz? Like, give or take maybe a week or two? Oh, and His second second ~ repitition of 'second' intentional, so, really third ~ return, since you're a premillennialist?

Grace and peace to you.

The Bible itself tells us there will be a thousand year rule of Jesus as King of Kings, after He Returns.
I am not a pre[mill rapture believer. I reject any theory of a rapture to heaven.

Every time the 6000 years are up and are breached Premils invent another date fir the beginning. This starts to get old after a while. It is just a manipulation of Scripture and of history to support a false doctrine. It is all a big ponzi scheme. No man know when Jesus is coming. Your date-setting is foolish. It will be exposed.

But the 6000 years since Adam is not up yet.
Jesus WILL Return as He Promised and your scathing rejection of Bible truths, is an indictment against you.

 

[PinSeeker]

The Bible itself tells us there will be a thousand year rule of Jesus as King of Kings, after He Returns.
I am not a pre-mill rapture believer. I reject any theory of a rapture to heaven.

Yes, Revelation 20 does surely tell us of Jesus's rule during the millennium, but I disagree with you regarding the nature of the millennium (not on whether there is one or not, for sure) on at least two bases, the first being that it is literally a one thousand, 365-day, period (I say it's not), and the second that it's future only and after He returns (I say it's neither).

I am not a pre-mill rapture believer. I reject any theory of a rapture to heaven.

I'm in agreement with you regarding any supposed "rapture," as you probably know. So, not a dispensational premillennialist, but a historical premillennialist... is that right?

But the 6000 years since Adam is not up yet.

Oh so the six-fold millennium... I'm kidding, of course. Yeah, I maintain, though, that... well, I'll just say that God's time is not our time, and vice versa. We disagree on this, but... that's okay.

Jesus WILL Return as He Promised...

That He certainly will.

...scathing rejection of Bible truths, is an indictment against you.

Well, I could say the same thing about your misunderstandings of these things, but I wouldn't use such ridiculous rhetoric. We just disagree, and, like I said previously, that's okay. It really is okay, Keraz. Neither one of us "rejects Bible truths" or is under any kind of "indictment." And regarding the latter, whether I pronounce any kind of "indictment" against you or declare that there is one on you) or the other way around really means nothing. It's okay, my friend. Disagreement on these things between brothers is okay.

Grace and peace to you.