...

[bbyrd009]

i wonder when salvation got conflated with going to heaven after death?

 

[amigo de christo]

I take that as the wailing of repentance. (like when we got "saved" - LOL)

Those wailing on the day of the LORD sure wont be JOY FILLED . You continue to MOCK GOD and the true gospel
at your own expense .
But as for the true lambs we cannot help but POINT TO CHRIST ALONE .
On the day of the LORD many will wail indeed . And it wont be for joy either .
As for the lambs we shall be rejoicing forever with the LORD .

 

[St. SteVen]

That very day they died spiritually and emotionally....it was evidenced in their hiding and blaming. Harmony was disrupted and the process of diminishment set in motion. Down the track their bodies also succumbed.

I agree with that point.
Many don't understand that the way you and I do.

What do you think happened to cause the hiding and covering?
At the end of chapter two they were naked an unashamed.

 

[St. SteVen]

i wonder when salvation got conflated with going to heaven after death?

That's a GREAT question. Thanks.
When indeed?

 

[St. SteVen]

Those wailing on the day of the LORD sure wont be JOY FILLED . You continue to MOCK GOD and the true gospel
at your own expense .

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Flifes-pretty-good-without-you

 

[Nancy]

More, you say?

Besides God being a loving Father, He is also Just, Jealous, NEVER changing, does what He say's and say's what He means. All powerful, all knowing, present in all places. He does, has and will again, expend His wrath on the un Godly, the wicked, the evil. And, God was not kidding when He said He would do this.
You only see one of His attributes-Love, to your own detriment, IMHO

 

[amigo de christo]

Besides God being a loving Father, He is also Just, Jealous, NEVER changing, does what He say's and say's what He means. All powerful, all knowing, present in all places. He does, has and will again, expend His wrath on the un Godly, the wicked, the evil. And, God was not kidding when He said He would do this.
You only see one of His attributes-Love, to your own detriment, IMHO

EVEN PAUL warned the same thing . DONT BE DECIEVED CHURCH , its becuase of THESE THINGS that the wrath of GOD
comes upon the children of disobediance . DONT be partakers with them .

 

[St. SteVen]

Besides God being a loving Father, He is also Just, Jealous, NEVER changing, does what He say's and say's what He means. All powerful, all knowing, present in all places. He does, has and will again, expend His wrath on the un Godly, the wicked, the evil. And, God was not kidding when He said He would do this.
You only see one of His attributes-Love, to your own detriment, IMHO

Thanks for your response. Consider this, if you will.

Jesus taught us that godly behavior is to love our enemies. Scripture below.
That being the case, what should God do to his enemies?
Does he hold himself to a lower standard than he holds us to?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

 

[St. SteVen]

You only see one of His attributes-Love, to your own detriment, IMHO

To my own detriment? What does that mean?

 

[Nancy]

Let me respond to you this way , God works in ages , pre earth age God created the heavenly hosts / the next age Adam to Noah ,God delt with them differently than us they did not follow Jesus as we do but followed some kind of laws that God did not share with us. / Noah to Abraham , God made a covenant with Noah on what he expected / Abraham to Jesus , God made a covenant with Abraham but the law was not given till more than 400 years into that covenant / Then came Jesus with the New covenant John 13:3 The Father has given all things into Jesus hands. / John 6:38-39 For I came down from heaven not to do mine own will but the will of him that sent me , and this is the Fathers will which has sent me, that of all which he has given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day. We are under the age of grace few will follow in this age, but that is not the end of the story. In the age to come those who are to be thrown into the Lake of Fire will be punished for correction, ( a theme that is throughout the whole Bible) Mal 3:2 but who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appears for he is like a refiners fire and like a fullers soap. Eph 2:7 in the coming ages he might display the surpassing riches of his grace. / Matt 5:26 Truly, I say to you, you will never get out until you have paid the last penny. Jesus doesn't give up till he has all his sheep , till Phil 2:10-11 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth and every tongue confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. The verses that you have quoted tell of what is going to happen in this age, but the age to come completes the story for "we trust in the living God, who is the savior of all men, especially of those who believe.( 1 Tim 4:9-11) so that in the end as 1 Cor 15:28 When all things are subjected to him, then the Son himself will also be subjected to him who put all things in subjection under him, that God may be all in all.

" Jesus doesn't give up till he has all his sheep. "

No, He doesn't. And who do you say are the "goats" in Rev. 21 and 22?

Thanks for your response. Consider this, if you will.

Jesus taught us that godly behavior is to love our enemies. Scripture below.
That being the case, what should God do to his enemies?
Does he hold himself to a lower standard than he holds us to?

Matthew 5:43-48 NIV
“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor[a] and hate your enemy.’ 44 But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45 that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Yes, we are to be good to those who persecute us, and love them and, nobody can love someone more than God Himself. He chastises those He loves, because He IS love. But He is just, He does not change, He is faithful to keep His promises both good and bad.

Look at 1 Samuel 15:2-3 2

"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: ‘I witnessed what the Amalekites did to the Israelites when they ambushed them on their way up from Egypt. 3Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

God can and does do what He deems "right" no matter how men see it. He has His perfect reasons for everything He does.

…30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I tremble before Him! I don't believe you will come around to what I believe and most surely, I will not be convinced of what you teach.
Peace

 

[St. SteVen]

I tremble before Him! I don't believe you will come around to what I believe and most surely, I will not be convinced of what you teach.
Peace

Okay.
"Come around", you say?
Interesting choice of words. I was raised evangelical. (FYI)

We can all choose to either build walls, or bridges.

 

[St. SteVen]

He IS love. But He is just, He does not change, He is faithful to keep His promises both good and bad.

Good and bad? Some of his promises are bad? Wow.

- What is the Christian thing to do if someone refuses a gift?

- What do you claim God does? (if someone refuses his gift)

 

[quietthinker]

I agree with that point.
Many don't understand that the way you and I do.

What do you think happened to cause the hiding and covering?
At the end of chapter two they were naked an unashamed.

They believed Satans lie and disobeyed God. It's no different with us today. We relate with hiding and covering with our fellow man not just with God when there is no transparency.

The Gospel calls us into transparency (light) in every aspect of our reality.

 

[quietthinker]

i wonder when salvation got conflated with going to heaven after death?

When the Serpent's lie was believed.

 

[St. SteVen]

They believed Satans lie and disobeyed God. It's no different with us today. We relate with hiding and covering with our fellow man not just with God when there is no transparency.

The Gospel calls us into transparency (light) in every aspect of our reality.

Thanks. You might enjoy this.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin

 

[quietthinker]

Thanks. You might enjoy this.

https://soundcloud.com/user-426611522%2Fdevil-talkin

I think much of what we deem conscience (which by the way, is programmed) is the devil talking.
Discerning the voices is a worthy pursuit.

 

[bbyrd009]

When the Serpent's lie was believed.

hmm
you think that long ago?
Jews dont seem to hold the belief

 

[quietthinker]

hmm
you think that long ago?
Jews dont seem to hold the belief

hmmmm, I was thinking more along the lines of people believing the serpents lie.

 

[jeff saunders]

Besides God being a loving Father, He is also Just, Jealous, NEVER changing, does what He say's and say's what He means. All powerful, all knowing, present in all places. He does, has and will again, expend His wrath on the un Godly, the wicked, the evil. And, God was not kidding when He said He would do this.
You only see one of His attributes-Love, to your own detriment, IMHO

The big difference between what most UR people understand is God is not a God who loves, He is love his essence is love and he can do nothing that is not loving. His wrath ,justice and all things God does is love. there are only 4 things that scripture says God is , love, light, life ,and he is spirit meaning he has no body. ( God the Father) his wrath, justice are things he does out of his love. most people from the western tradition handed down from Augustine see God more like the old Greek gods, they see him as the biggest God that loves ,hates, gets jealous, can change his mind ,is wrathful and if you don't do what he says he will burn you forever. The Jews thought that and what did Jesus say " you don't know the Father" , he didn't say they didn't know scripture ,he said they did not know the Fathers heart and I fear that western tradition Christians are doing the same thing. Most western tradition Christians don't even understand the simplest concept that scripture is so clear about 1 TIM 2:3-6 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our savior , who will have all men to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. scripture says in plain wording what Gods will is and because ECT is the foundation on which most have built their faith on they have to explain it away. And by the way if God is infinite love how can you add to or over emphasize Gods love if it has no limit. As soon as you put a limit on Gods love, which is his nature he ceases to be God.

 

[jeff saunders]

" Jesus doesn't give up till he has all his sheep. "

No, He doesn't. And who do you say are the "goats" in Rev. 21 and 22?

Yes, we are to be good to those who persecute us, and love them and, nobody can love someone more than God Himself. He chastises those He loves, because He IS love. But He is just, He does not change, He is faithful to keep His promises both good and bad.

Look at 1 Samuel 15:2-3 2

"This is what the LORD of Hosts says: ‘I witnessed what the Amalekites did to the Israelites when they ambushed them on their way up from Egypt. 3Now go and attack the Amalekites and devote to destruction all that belongs to them. Do not spare them, but put to death men and women, children and infants, oxen and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”

God can and does do what He deems "right" no matter how men see it. He has His perfect reasons for everything He does.

…30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge His people.” 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God."

I tremble before Him! I don't believe you will come around to what I believe and most surely, I will not be convinced of what you teach.
Peace

Did you know that all over in the catacombs icons of Jesus are shown with Jesus leading the sheep with a goat on his shoulders, that is what the early church say in Jesus.