69 Week To The 70 Week?

[Guestman]

After reading this thread, here's my opinion. Cyrus died in 529bc, so 490yrs don't add up to 70ad. The temple was completed in 516bc, in the 6th yr of Darius (Ezra 6:15), and the wall by Nehemiah in the 20th yr of Queen Esther and Artaxerxes I (Neh 1:1, 6:15) in 44bc. The 490yr don't add up to 70ad, instead they add up the the time of Rome's occupation of Israel. The 490yrs is the time of Persia/Mede and Grecia's occupation. The 490yrs ends in 63bc, which coincidently is the yr Julius Caesar is elected Pontifex Maximus.

Last but not least, we do not fly to heaven but are carried by the angels, the reapers. Three resurrections, the 1st is the righteous only. The 2nd(The Great White Throne Judgment) is the good and the bad, the good that died after the beginning of the 1,000yr reign to the end of the 1,000yrs, and all the bad from the beginning to the end of the 1,000yr reign, the books opened. The 3rd is the "wheat and tares", all the living on the earth and the dead from after the end of the 1,000yr reign, thus Revelation closing with Rev 22: 14; Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city" (storehouse).

Those who are of the "first resurrection"(Rev 20:4,6; 1 Thess 4:16) are ones chosen by God (2 Thess 2:13) that have been "bought from among mankind" (Rev 14:4), and are members of the heavenly kingdom numbering 144,000.(Rev 7; 14:1) These are called by Jesus a "little flock"(Luke 12:32), since only a small number of 144,000 are selected by God. These have been anointed with God's holy spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote that these "received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: Abba, Father. The spirit (God's holy spirit) bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ."(Rom 8:15-17)

These serve in the official capacity of "kings and priests" (Rev 1:6; 5:9, 10), applying Jesus ransom sacrifice in behalf of those who will live on the earth (Ps 37:29; Matt 5:5) and form the "kingdom of God", along with Jesus Christ.(Dan 7:13, 14, 18) These began to be resurrected during Jesus "presence"(1 Cor 15:23), which began in 1914 when Jesus received the crown to be king of God's kingdom.(Rev 6:2)

There have been billions that have died over the course of six thousand years of human history that will also be granted an opportunity to life everlasting, not to heaven but on the earth. The apostle Paul told governor Felix that "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous."(Acts 24:15) This resurrection is to occur during the "thousand year reign" of Jesus Christ (Rev 20:6), in which hades ("hell" in the King James Bible) will release its captives, for Revelation 20:13 says that "the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."(King James Bible)

Jesus told the Jews: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his (Jesus) voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."(John 5:28, 29) Thus, during the millennium reign of Jesus, millions, perhaps billions, will be resurrected back to life on the earth to be given an opportunity to gain God's favor and live forever, among which are Abraham, Job, David, Noah, Daniel and others who have already proved loyal to God.(Eze 14:14) Many, however, will reject God's undeserved kindness and will then be judged adversely, and will die "the second death", which is also called the "lake of fire".(Rev 20:14, 15) These will never live again.

 

[precepts]

Guestman's quote
Those who are of the "first resurrection"(Rev 20:4,6; 1 Thess 4:16) are ones chosen by God (2 Thess 2:13) that have been "bought from among mankind" (Rev 14:4), and are members of the heavenly kingdom numbering 144,000.(Rev 7; 14:1) These are called by Jesus a "little flock"(Luke 12:32),

since only a small number of 144,000 are selected by God. These have been anointed with God's holy spirit, for the apostle Paul wrote that these "received a spirit of adoption as sons, by which spirit we cry out: Abba, Father. The spirit (God's holy spirit) bears witness with our spirit that we are God's children. If, then, we are children, we are also heirs: heirs indeed of God, but joint heirs with Christ."(Rom 8:15-17)

These serve in the official capacity of "kings and priests" (Rev 1:6; 5:9, 10), applying Jesus ransom sacrifice in behalf of those who will live on the earth (Ps 37:29; Matt 5:5) and form the "kingdom of God", along with Jesus Christ.(Dan 7:13, 14, 18) These began to be resurrected during Jesus "presence"(1 Cor 15:23), which began in 1914 when Jesus received the crown to be king of God's kingdom.(Rev 6:2)

There have been billions that have died over the course of six thousand years of human history that will also be granted an opportunity to life everlasting, not to heaven but on the earth. The apostle Paul told governor Felix that "there is going to be a resurrection of both the righteous and unrighteous."(Acts 24:15) This resurrection is to occur during the "thousand year reign" of Jesus Christ (Rev 20:6), in which hades ("hell" in the King James Bible) will release its captives, for Revelation 20:13 says that "the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works."(King James Bible)

Jesus told the Jews: "Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his (Jesus) voice and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment."(John 5:28, 29) Thus, during the millennium reign of Jesus, millions, perhaps billions, will be resurrected back to life on the earth to be given an opportunity to gain God's favor and live forever, among which are Abraham, Job, David, Noah, Daniel and others who have already proved loyal to God.(Eze 14:14) Many, however, will reject God's undeserved kindness and will then be judged adversely, and will die "the second death", which is also called the "lake of fire".(Rev 20:14, 15) These will never live again.

Thanks for your opinion.

 

[veteran]

I also agree that the "he" of Dan.9:27 is NOT about our Lord Jesus Christ. Most often when I hear the time periods of Christ's Ministry applied to Dan.9:27 it causes a direct conflict with what else Daniel 11 reveals about the "vile person" causing the end of the daily sacrifice and placing of the abomination that maketh desolate.

The final "one week" of Dan.9:27 is about a false one who makes a convenant for that period (7 years), and then in the middle of that period (3.5 years), that same "he" will take away the daily sacrifice and because of the overspeading of abominations he shall make it desolate.

That overspreading of abominations is specifically about the setting up of false worship.

Dan 11:36-39
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
(KJV)

That's the same one of Dan.11:31 and Dan.9:27 that will cause the daily sacrifice to cease, and place the abomination that maketh desolate our Lord Jesus warned of in Matt. 24 and Mark 13. How could that ever be our Lord Jesus that does that?

In 165 B.C., a Syrian named Antiochus Epiphanes conquered Jerusalem and sacrificed swine upon the altar inside the Jerusalem temple, and setup an altar to Zeus in false worship. He fulfilled the abomination of desolation pattern almost to a tee. Yet our Lord Jesus warned of another coming long after Antiochus had been dead, that will fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel. That shows the final "one week" of the 70 weeks is yet to be fulfilled.

So a deeper question would be, just WHY would some want to treat the 70 weeks prophecy as being already completed today? I really don't understand that, unless, it's an attempt to try and move one's mind into a Milennium now type of thinking, which would mean what about the time of Christ's coming?

 

[precepts]

Veteran's

Dan 11:36-39
36 And the king shall do according to his will; and he shall exalt himself, and magnify himself above every god, and shall speak marvellous things against the God of gods, and shall prosper till the indignation be accomplished: for that that is determined shall be done.
37 Neither shall he regard the God of his fathers, nor the desire of women, nor regard any god: for he shall magnify himself above all.
38 But in his estate shall he honour the God of forces: and a god whom his fathers knew not shall he honour with gold, and silver, and with precious stones, and pleasant things.
39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, and shall divide the land for gain.
(KJV)

The kings of the north and south were Alexander the Great's generals, the Ptolemies and the Seleucids, two of the four horns that came up after Alexander the Great horn. The king that came in with flattery was Antiochus "the Great" III. Antiochus III ended the Zadok priestly line which decended from Aaron. He also setted himself up to be worship as a God. It's all documented in history. It's because of his replacement of the Zadok/Aaron priestly lineage that caused the Jews to war among themselves in electing priests.

There were several Maccabean kings that exalted themselves to be king and priest. They were trying to imitate Joshua the son of Josedech, the high priest during the time of the 2nd temple reconstruction, crowning as High Priest and King. After Joshua's crowning as King and High Priest, there was never a king in Israel until the Maccabes, only govenors which Zerubbabel, Nehemiah, etc. were. You have to know the history of Israel after the 2nd temple building.



Veteran's

In 165 B.C., a Syrian named Antiochus Epiphanes conquered Jerusalem and sacrificed swine upon the altar inside the Jerusalem temple, and setup an altar to Zeus in false worship. He fulfilled the abomination of desolation pattern almost to a tee. Yet our Lord Jesus warned of another coming long after Antiochus had been dead, that will fulfill the "abomination of desolation" prophecy from the Book of Daniel. That shows the final "one week" of the 70 weeks is yet to be fulfilled.

The abomination of desolation has been done by many including Jewish kings. The abomination of desolation done by many was growing a grove near the temple or putting an Asherim in the temple which was supppose to be the "Queen of Heaven" or the "Wife of God". The Antiochus you're referring to is Antiochus IV, Antiochus III preceded him and did the damage of hellenizing the jews and ending the priestly lineage of Aaron.

So a deeper question would be, just WHY would some want to treat the 70 weeks prophecy as being already completed today? I really don't understand that, unless, it's an attempt to try and move one's mind into a Milennium now type of thinking, which would mean what about the time of Christ's coming?

Really!!? I guess some do have their own agendas!

 

[veteran]

Yes, some do have an agenda to deceive, using the false idea that the final "one week" of th 70 weeks prophecy has already been fulfilled.

The time of the Dan.11 prophecy about the "vile person" continues into the next chapter of Dan.12, which is also often left out of consideration by those who think the 70 weeks were already fulfilled...

Dan 12:1-9
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

What's that phrase, "And at that time"? It's pointing back to the subject of the previous Daniel 11 chapter. Which is about what? Dan.11 is about the "vile person" making a "league" and becoming strong with a "small people", and causing the end of the daily sacrifice and the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate.

In Matt.24:21 and Mark 13:19, our Lord Jesus warned there would be a time of "great tribulation" that has never been before on earth since creation, and never will be another like it again. That's this "time of trouble" when the Archangel Michael will "stand up" (make a stand). That time has not come on earth yet today, but is near. Note how that time is also associated with the deliverance of those who's names are found written in "the book". What book? The Book of Life. Revelation 13:4-8 gives a direct reference to that, which is about those who overcome in Christ by refusing to bow to the dragon of Rev.13. That's why in that Dan.12:2 verse the idea of the resurrection is mentioned.

That is NOT about 70 A.D. Jerusalem, nor 165 B.C. Jerusalem with Antiochus IV. It's about the end of days just prior to Christ's SECOND coming and the gathering of His saints to Him.

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Seal this prophecy up "even to the time of the end"? Yes, the end of this present world. And when will that happen? On the 7th trumpet coming of Christ Jesus.

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Now there's something interesting. That "he" in bold is a reference back to that "vile person" of Dan.11, for that's the one who will "scatter the power of the holy people" for a period of 42 months per Rev.13. That 42 months is that same "time, times, and an half", or 3.5 years. That's about the one in Dan.9:27 who in the middle of the "one week" (7 years) will cause abominations in Jerusalem with setting up false worship just prior to Christ's return.

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
(KJV)

That's TWO markers in this Dan.12 chapter for this prophecy being for "the time of the end."

I think our Heavenly Father has been very good to us in letting us know when this 70 weeks prophecy will be fulfilled in final, specifically when that last "one week" of Dan.9:27 will be; for the time of the end of this world. So why would some not want Christ's servants to realize that timing? I mean, understanding the above verses is speaking of a time at the end of this world is very simple, even easy.

 

[precepts]

Vet's

Yes, some do have an agenda to deceive, using the false idea that the final "one week" of th 70 weeks prophecy has already been fulfilled.

By denying the facts, I suppose.

Vet's

The time of the Dan.11 prophecy about the "vile person" continues into the next chapter of Dan.12, which is also often left out of consideration by those who think the 70 weeks were already fulfilled...

Dan 12:1-9
1 And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

What's that phrase, "And at that time"? It's pointing back to the subject of the previous Daniel 11 chapter. Which is about what? Dan.11 is about the "vile person" making a "league" and becoming strong with a "small people", and causing the end of the daily sacrifice and the placing of the abomination that maketh desolate.

I understand all that. The key is who or what this vile person is. The Egyptians had a saying "as in the earth so it goes in heaven". They understood or knew that the attacks on the earthly Jerusalem would be repeated in the heavenlies.
The 4/5 beast of Daniel are the 4/5 fallen angels. The beast from the bottomless pit and the 4 angels from the river Euphrates. These 4/5 fallen angels represents the 4/5 kingdoms in the daniel, the image in Nebuchadnezzar's dream.
Notice the parallels in Israel's history and Revelation. . The earthly Jerusalem is attacked by Nebuchadnezzar, the Beast and destroyed twice including 70ad by the 8th Roman emperor. The heavenly Jerusalem is also attacked by the Beast.
After the 1st earthly carnal attack the coutyard is defiled by the greek lil horn Antiochus III. Antiochus turned the temple courtyard into a gymnasium, hellenizing Israel which is historically documented, the reason for revelations 11:2's leaving out of the heavenly courtyard which would be defiled underfoot for 42mths by the Gentiles. It is this fallen angel that along with Satan goes out to decieve the world to make a heavenly attack on the heavenly Jerusalem while attacking the earthly camp of the saints. The being of course, Antioch.
It is this devil that is cast into the lake of fire were the Beast and the false prophet are. If it was the Devil cast into the lake of fire after the 1,000yrs then there would be no need for Christ's message about entering into the gate into the New Jerusalem.
After the 1,000yrs is the Great White Throne Judgement, The end of the earthly carnal world is the wheat and tares. There's no throne judgement, only gatherings. The good into the storehouse/barn/New Jerusalem, carried by angels, and the bad into the lake of fire, no throne judgement.

Just like the Beast was a man on earth so were the 4 angels.

 

[precepts]

Vet's

That's this "time of trouble" when the Archangel Michael will "stand up" (make a stand). That time has not come on earth yet today, but is near.

That's your opinion. It has already happened in heaven. I can assume that you believe the disciples are stil in the grave awaiting the rapture?


Vet's

Note how that time is also associated with the deliverance of those who's names are found written in "the book". What book? The Book of Life. Revelation 13:4-8 gives a direct reference to that, which is about those who overcome in Christ by refusing to bow to the dragon of Rev.13. That's why in that Dan.12:2 verse the idea of the resurrection is mentioned.

That is after the 1,000yr reign with Christ in his heavenly temple where the ark was seen. After the 1,000yrs, the heavenly Jerusalem and temple are attacked, The reason for the New Jerusalem. The reason why John doesn't measure the outercourt. The great white throne judgement is not the wheat and tares harvest of the world. There's no throne judgement in the wheat and tares harvest of the earthly carnal world. We're carried by angels into heaven, the good to the new heavenly Jerusalem, the wicked carried and dropped into the lake of fire.


Vet's

That is NOT about 70 A.D. Jerusalem, nor 165 B.C. Jerusalem with Antiochus IV. It's about the end of days just prior to Christ's SECOND coming and the gathering of His saints to Him.

Just like Elisha received double and Christ, so are all of the prophecies of Israel's replanting. One interpretation is carnal. the ones you think aren't fulfilled yet are the spiritual. When God said that Israel would be replanted and never uprooted, he was talking about establishing his heavenly kingdom thru Israels resurrection. That's why Christ said the kingdom of heaven suffered violence up to the time of John the Baptist.
The Devil was cast out so he gave his power to the Beast and the four angels to launch attacks on heaven. The scarlet Beast the woman rides on in Revelation represents the dragon as the Beast with his parts including the 4 fallen angels.



Vet's

3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament; and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.

Seal this prophecy up "even to the time of the end"? Yes, the end of this present world. And when will that happen? On the 7th trumpet coming of Christ Jesus.

It amuses me how some can see Daniel 11's connections to the end time but can't see how Daniel 11 begins in Persia. Daniel testifies before Darius the Mede:

Also I in the first year of Darius the Mede, [even] I, stood to confirm and to strengthen him.
And now will I shew thee the truth. Behold, there shall stand up yet three kings in Persia; and the fourth shall be far richer than [they] all: and by his strength through his riches he shall stir up all against the realm of Grecia.
And a mighty king shall stand up, that shall rule with great dominion, and do according to his will.
And when he shall stand up, his kingdom shall be broken, and shall be divided toward the four winds of heaven; and not to his posterity, nor according to his dominion which he ruled: for his kingdom shall be plucked up, even for others beside those.
And the king of the south shall be strong, and [one] of his princes; and he shall be strong above him, and have dominion; his dominion [shall be] a great dominion.

Who is the king of the south? One of the four generals of Alexander. Who is this vile person? He springs up from one of these four Grecian horns.

 

[precepts]

Vet's

5 Then I Daniel looked, and, behold, there stood other two, the one on this side of the bank of the river, and the other on that side of the bank of the river.
6 And one said to the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, How long shall it be to the end of these wonders?
7 And I heard the man clothed in linen, which was upon the waters of the river, when he held up his right hand and his left hand unto heaven, and sware by him that liveth for ever that it shall be for a time, times, and an half; and when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished.

Antiochus III scattered them by ending the Zadok/Aaron priestly lineage.
Daniel parallels Revelation 10:

And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow [was] upon his head, and his face [was] as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:
And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and [his] left [foot] on the earth,
And cried with a loud voice, as [when] a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.
And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.
And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,
And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
But in the days of the voice of the seventh angel, when he shall begin to sound, the mystery of God should be finished, as he hath declared to his servants the prophets.

Vet's

Now there's something interesting. That "he" in bold is a reference back to that "vile person" of Dan.11, for that's the one who will "scatter the power of the holy people" for a period of 42 months per Rev.13. That 42 months is that same "time, times, and an half", or 3.5 years.

That's interesting since I already explained that Antiochus "the Great" III scattered Israel by defiling the outer courtyard turning it into a gymnasium for hellenized jews. It's also interesting since I connected the dots explaining how this Antiochus is the devil in revelation that attacks the heavenly Jerusalem after the 1,000yrs, the reason why John didn't measure the heavenly outer courtyard. Maybe the connection that I didn't explain was since these are the 4/5 fallen angels, each representing a kingom, that Antiochus III himself said he was Alexander the Great, of which he was.


Vet's

That's about the one in Dan.9:27 who in the middle of the "one week" (7 years) will cause abominations in Jerusalem with setting up false worship just prior to Christ's return.

I really didn't clarify the difference between the two last time but the "prince that shall come and destroy the city and sanctuary isn't the vile person. Antiochus or the vile person comes in with flattery. He doesn't destroy anything, He teams up with hellenized Jews to destroy the priesthood and corrupts the covenant.
The prince that destroys the city and sanctuary was a grecian prince that joined with a rebelling Egyptian army. I researched it. If you read Daniel's prophecy to Darius, it was Xerxes the father of Artaxerxes (Esther's husband) that stirred up Grecia with military conquests. The city and sanctuary were destroyed during Esther's reign, the 20th yr of Artaxerxes the reason for Nehemiah's rebuilding.
By the way, Esther begins in the 62 yr of the 70 literal yrs after Babylon. Another thing to note is that the sanctuary is not the temple but an outer chamber.



Vet's

8 And I heard, but I understood not: then said I, O my Lord, what shall be the end of these things?
9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
(KJV)

That's TWO markers in this Dan.12 chapter for this prophecy being for "the time of the end."

Yeah, but where does it begin? What's the context of Dan 11? Persia stirring up Grecia from which Alexander rises to have his kingdom divided into four kingdoms. It's history. The king of the north and south were the Ptolemies and the Seleucids. In each kingdom head there is a fallen angel. Babylon's was Nebuchadnezzar, Persia - Cyrus, Grecia - Alexander, Rome - Augustus, the 5th beast /11th horn - Nerva, and the 8th horn of the 5th beast - Titus Flavius Vespasianus/the Beast/Nebuchadnezzar.
Facts about the 4th and 5th beasts, the name Flavius was an adoptive sir name adopted by Josephus, Constantine and his mother, etc..
Nerva the 11th was the last Roman emperor by blood or birth. He ended the practice of Roman emperors being titled Caesar. Instead the title was given to the emperor to be.
The 8th emperor Flavius (Nebuchadnezzar) that destroyed the temple in 70ad ended the "yr of Four Emperors" which fulfills John's prophecy of 5 are fallen and one is, one is to come and continue a short space, the Beast is the 8th, whidh is the yr of 4 emperors.
Flavius started his own dynasty with his two sons that were plucked up by Nerva the 11th emperor who began the "Five Good Emperors" reign. All of which is Roman history. Three plucked up the horns, Flavius the 8th emperor and his two sons, the 9th and 10th emperors.


Vet's

I think our Heavenly Father has been very good to us in letting us know when this 70 weeks prophecy will be fulfilled in final, specifically when that last "one week" of Dan.9:27 will be; for the time of the end of this world. So why would some not want Christ's servants to realize that timing? I mean, understanding the above verses is speaking of a time at the end of this world is very simple, even easy.

The time of the end is referring to the time when heaven will no longer have violence. The second attack was the last. The Beast, false prophet, and the devil that decieved them are only three of the five angels plus Satan that now have a short time before they're thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity.

I'm not much of a writer but I know the truth. I only hope that you can comprehend.

 

[veteran]

The following is what God revealed through Daniel about the beast kingdoms. Notice there is to be a final beast kingdom established on earth when the "stone" (Christ) smites it upon its feet, and an everlasting kingdom is setup by God. That is pointing to the very of this world, just like Daniel 12 showed the final fulfillment of the abomination of desolation is for the very end also.

Dan 2:32-35
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(KJV)

gold = Babylon kingdom
silver = Media-Persia which conquered Babylon
brass = Alexander's Macedonia, which conquered Medo-Persia
iron = Roman empire
clay mixed with iron = final beast kingdom to include all the previous beast kingdoms, existing when Christ returns to this earth to smite it upon its feet.


Dan 2:39-44
39 And after thee shall arise another kingdom inferior to thee, and another third kingdom of brass, which shall bear rule over all the earth.

The kingdom of brass was Alexander's beast Grecia. It indeed was history.

40 And the fourth kingdom shall be strong as iron: forasmuch as iron breaketh in pieces and subdueth all things: and as iron that breaketh all these, shall it break in pieces and bruise.

The kingdom of iron (Roman empire) also was history.

But the following beast kingdom is not history, and is to exist when Christ returns to the Mount of Olives.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
(KJV)

 

[Paul]

...

gold = Babylon kingdom
silver = Media-Persia which conquered Babylon
brass = Alexander's Macedonia, which conquered Medo-Persia
iron = Roman empire
clay mixed with iron = final beast kingdom to include all the previous beast kingdoms, existing when Christ returns to this earth to smite it upon its feet.

...

Just a note in addition:

gold = Babylon kingdom
silver = Media-Persia which conquered Babylon
brass = Alexander's Macedonia, which conquered Medo-Persia

= 594 years. Not the total of their rule but of their involvement with Israel.

iron = Roman empire = 666 years

594 + 666 = 1260

Now look at soros cycle #136

 

[precepts]

Vet's

The following is what God revealed through Daniel about the beast kingdoms. Notice there is to be a final beast kingdom established on earth when the "stone" (Christ) smites it upon its feet, and an everlasting kingdom is setup by God. That is pointing to the very of this world, just like Daniel 12 showed the final fulfillment of the abomination of desolation is for the very end also.

There's no gap between the kingdoms the same way there's no gap in the image.



Vet's

But the following beast kingdom is not history, and is to exist when Christ returns to the Mount of Olives.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
(KJV)

The 5th kingdom last til the harvest of the world under deception. There's no gap between kingdoms, especially a 2,000yr old gap. That's ridiculous! Rome is the final beast that last to all generations. It smashes and conquers the world. Does Rome have the history of conquering the world? Does Rome have a 2,000yr old history of influencing the world affairs?

The stone that strike the feet of the image happens in heaven when the kingdoms become Christ's:

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,

In heaven, and this is before the Beast attacks the heavenly Jerusalem. This is the openning of the seals after Christ is brought before God and his throne after his ressurection.

Twenty elders' seats are in heaven:

After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The kingdoms become Christ's in heaven when he resurrects and unseals the book.

 

[veteran]

There is a gap of time between fulfillment of the 69th week and the 70th week.

Dan 2:41-45
41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.
(KJV)

What is that kingdom to be setup by God which shall never be destroyed? That's about Christ's future thousand years reign of Rev.20, all the kingdoms of this world becoming His at His coming on the 7th trumpet per Rev.11:15. THAT has never happened to this day. The 7th trumpet has not yet sounded, which even those on a pre-trib fly away doctrine recognize today, since even they realize as long as they are still here on earth, the great tribulation hasn't started yet.

In God's interpretation of Neb's dream given through Daniel, that beast of part clay and part iron with ten toes MUST be established on the earth at a time just prior to Christ's return. That's the "days of these kings" of verse 44, the 10 kings of the Rev.13:1 beast kingdom explained in Rev.17 by our Lord. That must be existing on earth at the time when the "stone" (Christ) comes to smite it upon its feet.


The Daniel 2:44-45 verses are referring back to this Scripture...

Dan 2:32-35
32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.
34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
(KJV)

The "stone was cut out without hands" represents our Lord Jesus Christ, The Stone the builders rejected. At His coming He will smite that final beast kingdom upon its feet of ten toes of part iron and part clay. And because of that, the WHOLE IMAGE comes tumbling down, to exist no more. That "stone" becoming "a great mountain and filling the whole earth is about Christ and His future Kingdom, de facto upon the earth per Zechariah 14 and Revelation 20 forward. That has not happened yet today, for today those in Christ only have a spiritual kingdom upon this earth. His literal Kingdom shown in Zechariah 14 with all nations being required to come up to Jerusalem to worship The KING is still future to us today.

 

[precepts]

I already answered your questions and proved when and where the kingdoms became Christ's.

Vet's
The following is what God revealed through Daniel about the beast kingdoms. Notice there is to be a final beast kingdom established on earth when the "stone" (Christ) smites it upon its feet, and an everlasting kingdom is setup by God. That is pointing to the very of this world, just like Daniel 12 showed the final fulfillment of the abomination of desolation is for the very end also.

There's no gap between the kingdoms the same way there's no gap in the image.

Vet's
But the following beast kingdom is not history, and is to exist when Christ returns to the Mount of Olives.

41 And whereas thou sawest the feet and toes, part of potters' clay, and part of iron, the kingdom shall be divided; but there shall be in it of the strength of the iron, forasmuch as thou sawest the iron mixed with miry clay.
42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.
43 And whereas thou sawest iron mixed with miry clay, they shall mingle themselves with the seed of men: but they shall not cleave one to another, even as iron is not mixed with clay.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
(KJV)

The 5th kingdom last til the harvest of the world under deception. There's no gap between kingdoms, especially a 2,000yr old gap. That's ridiculous! Rome is the final beast that last to all generations. It smashes and conquers the world. Does Rome have the history of conquering the world? Does Rome have a 2,000yr old history of influencing the world affairs?

The stone that strike the feet of the image happens in heaven when the kingdoms become Christ's:

And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become [the kingdoms] of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
And the four and twenty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,In heaven,

This is before the Beast attacks the heavenly Jerusalem. This is the openning of the seals after Christ is brought before God and his throne after his ressurection.

Twenty elders' seats are in heaven:

After this I looked, and, behold, a door [was] opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard [was] as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will shew thee things which must be hereafter.
And immediately I was in the spirit: and, behold, a throne was set in heaven, and [one] sat on the throne.
And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.
And round about the throne [were] four and twenty seats: and upon the seats I saw four and twenty elders sitting, clothed in white raiment; and they had on their heads crowns of gold.

The kingdoms become Christ's in heaven when he resurrects and unseals the book.

I can't make it any simpler than that.

 

[veteran]

I already answered your questions and proved when and where the kingdoms became Christ's.

Actually, you have not shown or proven that.


The "crowns of gold" upon the 24 elders clothed in white raiment which John saw in Rev.4 while being "in the spirit" is linked to the 7th trumpet event of Rev.11:15 forward (which even your last post has agreed on that point). The link there with the 24 elders is with the timing of Rev.11:15 to the end of the Rev.11 chapter, NOT the time of Rev.4 when John was "in the spirit" in order to be given the Revelation prophecy.

But Rev.11:15 declares when the 7th angel sounds, all the kingdoms of THIS world become those of The Lord and of His Christ. Those kingdoms ARE NOT in Heaven; they're here on this earth when that occurs, even as the Daniel 2 prophecy has shown about that final beast of ten toes of part iron and part clay.

Per Rev.11:14-15, all the kingdoms of THIS world become Christ's on that 3rd WOE PERIOD - 7th trumpet.

What happens just prior to that 3rd woe - 7th trumpet period?

The 2nd WOE period starts with the 6th trumpet, back at Rev.9. Rev.10 declares what God gave His prophets to write about this world won't be finished until the 7th angel sounds (7th trumpet). Would what God gave His prophets to write include the time when our Lord Jesus returns? Yes. In the first part of Rev.11, we're shown a temple the Gentiles will tread for 42 months (tied to the dragon working of Rev.13), and God's two witnesses prophesy in Jerusalem for 1260 days. THAT 2nd WOE PERIOD - 6TH TRUMPET IS TRIBULATION TIMING. At the end of that 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period, Christ's coming and our gathering to Him happens.


But what the doctrine your on is trying to do, is to wrongly show a pre-tribulational rapture before the 6th trumpet - 2nd woe period has even begun! That does not align with the Scripture.


The 7th seal, 7th trumpet, and 7th vial, ALL end at the same time, and that's when Christ comes to gather us. Not before.

 

[precepts]

Ezekiel 31 proves the garden of Eden is in heaven. It speaks of the fall of the Assyrian in contrast to the Pharoah of Egypt as trees once in the garden of God, Eden. It speaks of these trees being cast down to earth or hell with men that go down into the pit.

The "tree of life" is not on this earth but in the garden of Eden on the heavenly earth where the New Jerusalem is. Ezekiel 31 proves it!

As for the kingdoms becoming Christ's, I did make a mistake in thinking it happened in chapter 5 but check this out. Chapter 5 is about Christ's ascension into heaven after his resurrection. If the 7th seal, 7th trump, and the 7th vial occurs at the same time, which I agree, then the seventh vial and seventh trump is where Christ is crucified and on the cross says "it is finish".
Rev. 11, verse 15 says they were voices in heaven that said the kingdoms became Christ's, and the 24 elders presence connects Rev 11 to Rev 5, the day Christ is brought before God's throne in heaven.

Revelation is about visions that took place at different times in space that John beheld. John was just witnessing where, when, and how the book was constructed. B)An example would be the drying up of the river Euphrates, the 6th vial, but it is refering to when Cyrus conquered Babylon by entering thru the dried up river beds into the fortified city.

Hope I don't sound to cocky but I know these as facts.

 

[veteran]

Ezekiel 31 proves the garden of Eden is in heaven. It speaks of the fall of the Assyrian in contrast to the Pharoah of Egypt as trees once in the garden of God, Eden. It speaks of these trees being cast down to earth or hell with men that go down into the pit.

The "tree of life" is not on this earth but in the garden of Eden on the heavenly earth where the New Jerusalem is. Ezekiel 31 proves it!

Maybe you should continue reading in the Book of Ezekiel and note where God's River and the tree of life of Rev.22 will be per the Ezekiel 47 chapter. It will manifest on this earth, His River even flowing to the areas of Engedi and Eneglaim, which are geographic locations in the holy land. The Ezekiel 47 chapter is well into the timing of Christ's Milennium reign. Also might want to note Genesis 2 again, with God's Eden once being upon this earth, with God's River flowing out of Eden to four other rivers upon the earth (Pison, Gihon, Hiddekel, and Euphrates), . God and His Eden were once upon this earth, and will eventually return to this earth. The Holy City is shown upon this earth per those Ezekiel 40 through 48 chapters, and God is here also when the Holy City will be called, 'Yahaveh Shamah', meaning 'The LORD is there' (Ezek.48).

The Ezekiel 31 chapter gives a parable about Satan's first rebellion against God in the time of old. The cedar of Lebanon symbol is used to represent high status, even royalty (Ezek.17 about Zedekiah). The trees of Eden symbol is used there as a metaphor for the high ones that rebelled with Satan, and as a pointer to the kings that are to rule with him in the end that go down to the pit (see Isaiah 24:21-22). I agree God and His Eden are in the Heavenly right now, but per His Word, God and His Eden will come back to this earth. That's even the subject of Rev.21 & 22, with the new Jerusalem coming down to this earth.

As for the kingdoms becoming Christ's, I did make a mistake in thinking it happened in chapter 5 but check this out. Chapter 5 is about Christ's ascension into heaven after his resurrection. If the 7th seal, 7th trump, and the 7th vial occurs at the same time, which I agree, then the seventh vial and seventh trump is where Christ is crucified and on the cross says "it is finish".
Rev. 11, verse 15 says they were voices in heaven that said the kingdoms became Christ's, and the 24 elders presence connects Rev 11 to Rev 5, the day Christ is brought before God's throne in heaven.

Rev 5:9-10
9 And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for Thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by Thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation;
10 And hast made us unto our God kings and priests: and we shall reign on the earth.
(KJV)

Did you miss those time markers in bold about the 24 elders? When are ANY of Christ's saints redeemed by His Blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation? Not until Christ's coming a second time and the end of this world brother. And when do we reign "one the earth" with Christ as kings and priests? Not until after Christ's coming to defeat His enemies upon this earth. It's obvious those events did not happen in John's day, nor has that happened yet to our day. That's still future to us even. The vision of the 24 elders John is given to see is of a time way in the future, after the resurrection at Christ's coming. We shouldn't get confused about their mention at that point, just because of how the opening of the seals is being presented.

Per Hebrews 2:14, our Lord Jesus came to die on the cross to do what? To defeat the devil, and death, since Satan has been given power over death. That's the part our Lord Jesus finished upon His cross. It completed God's judgment upon Satan and his, and was one of the reasons why Satan tried many times through Bible history to stop it by trying to destroy the seed of the woman which Christ would be born through. But, it should be pretty clear that the idea of death has not ended yet today, even though through Christ those who believe on Him now have a promise of eternal life. Nor has Satan been destroyed yet. Don't hang up your spiritual sword in Christ just yet, for the real battle in the end is just getting ready to start.

In Rev.11:15 to the end of the chapter, on that 7th trumpet is when all the kingdoms of THIS world become those of Christ, and He shall reign forever. I'm sorry, but you've got to deny a lot of Scripture to think those kingdoms are somewhere else other than on this earth. In those verses is also described the time of His wrath, and the time of rewards handed out to His servants. The crowns of gold the 24 elders have on, and being around Christ near His Throne is a pointing to AFTER the resurrection, when the rewards are handed out. That's Milennium timing of Christ's thousand years reign, which has not begun yet today. Per John 5, at the sound of Christ's voice, that's when the resurrection of both the just and the unjust happens. That would mean all the seals, trumpets, and vials would have to be completed, which is what Rev.10 is showing that all prophecy for this present world that God gave through His servants the prophets is finished when the 7th angel sounds. Would that include the great tribulation events being over too on that 7th angel sounding? Yes. When Christ returns on that 7th trumpet, power of the wicked ends, both on earth and in the heavenly. (Actually, Satan's power and authority ends in the heavenly realm when he is cast down to this earth with his angels in Rev.12 which starts the end time great tribulation). At the 7th trump Satan and his followers are then locked in the pit during Christ's thousand years reign, to be released upon the earth one more time after Christ's future thousand years reign, when they are finally destroyed (Rev.20:7-15).

Revelation is about visions that took place at different times in space that John beheld. John was just witnessing where, when, and how the book was constructed. B)An example would be the drying up of the river Euphrates, the 6th vial, but it is refering to when Cyrus conquered Babylon by entering thru the dried up river beds into the fortified city.

Hope I don't sound to cocky but I know these as facts.

In 1 Cor.10, Apostle Paul declared that the Old Testament histories serve as "ensamples" to us upon whom the ends of the world has come. That means many events in the OT serve as blueprints for endtime events. That's why OT study is important for all believers on Christ Jesus. But what is more important about OT Bible study are the events written within those histories that have never been fulfilled, even to our day.

Cyrus serves as a 'type' blueprint for our Lord Jesus' second coming to destroy the Revelation metaphorical Babylon. Cyrus was of the nations, and as the nations conquered Iraq in the 1990's Gulf War when Saddam was trying to rebuild the geographical city of Babylon, even that served as a prophetic 'type' of what Cyrus did. The Revelation 'type' for endtime Babylon involves all nations falling under its power in the very end of this world, just as historical Babylon included much of the civilized world of Bible history.

But none of that proves the kingdoms Christ will come to reign over are located in Heaven. That kind of idea is from the traditions of men, especially from those who are trying to get a believer to think we are raptured to Heaven prior to the coming great tribulation. God's Word reveals the heavenly is going to manifest here, upon this earth. That's what the idea of the new Jerusalem coming down to the earth out of Heaven is about. Per Zech.14, Christ's return is to the Mount of Olives on earth where ascended to Heaven from per Acts 1. The Heavenly is coming here, which is in another dimension of existence right now. When the 7th trumpet blows, and the resurrection happens with it, we all... are going to be changed to resurrection bodies while here. And then we in Christ Jesus will flee to Him in Jerusalem where He returns to (see the Isaiah 25 events about that change which Paul was pulling from in 1 Corinthians 15).

 

[precepts]

You're missing two facts, there're two earths, the one we live on and the heavenly eath where the angels live. The verses I gave you early shows without a shadow of a doubt that the Eden the trees/fallen angels were thrown out of was the heavenly earth, where the Angels met with God, as in Job when the sons of God were gathered before God.
Ezekiel clearly testifies to their fall from heaven with them that go down into the pit. All these verses are connected to pagan kings that practice witchcraft and worshipped the Devil and the 4/5 fallen angels.
Most misinterpret these verses, Ezekiel is actually prophecying about Satan going down into the bottomless pit with all the kings of the earth, all the men who practiced ancenstry worship and the raising of the dead, whether physically or spiritually. These are the kings that attack the heavenly Jerusalem with the Beast and the false prophet at the wedding supper battle. These men practiced a resurrection from the dead religion. They made themselves eternal thru the power or knowledge of the Devil and the fallen angels. This is what Christ meant when he said "indeed ye are gods but ye shall die like men', he was refering to the angels and these men made angels kings. There death as men will be eternal damnation in the lake of fire with the eternal angels deaths, eternal boundage in the lake of fire.

Another fact you're missing is that there is no gap between the Beasts describe in Daniel and Revelation. Daniel's prophecy was about Babylon, Persia/Medes, Grecia, and Rome. Rome is the 4th and 5th beast kingdoms on the earth, the 1st and 2nd beasts in Revelation. There's no gap, the 5th Roman beast kingdom lasts to the end of the world because like Daniel prophecied, it stomps, breaks, and conquers the world! Just like in Babylon, Persia/Media, and in Grecia, kings where named as horns (Ex. Alexander), so is Rome's horns, men, kings, emperors, Pontifices Maximi. And Rome just happens to be built on 7 of 10hills, have a sucession of 11 native emperors, seven were Julio Caesar dynasty, three were Flavians, and the 11th started his own dynasty after plucking up the three Flavians. This 11th horn/emperor also decreed the Caesars to be the emperors to be establishing Romes two horns for the 2nd beast.

Fact #3 there's no way the disciples are stil in the grave awaiting the rapture especially since Peter quoted David's state in the grave, on the day of Pentecost, in contrast to the Christ's ressurection as being the 1st of the dead, meaning the beginning of man's transformation into an eternal realm. Christ was bringing in the resurrection of the dead in Israel 1st and all the righteous at that time to eternal life in heaven where the angels live, not where God lives until this 1st resurrection. They reign a 1,000yrs then all the unrighteous dead up to that time are heavenly resurrected with the righteous that died between the 1st and 2nd heavenly resurrections. The 3rd resurrection is the wheat and tares harvest of the carnal earthly world. The righteous in the barn. New Jerusalem, and the wicked into the lake of fire, there's no throne judgement at the Trump of God.

 

[veteran]

You're missing two facts, there're two earths, the one we live on and the heavenly eath where the angels live. The verses I gave you early shows without a shadow of a doubt that the Eden the trees/fallen angels were thrown out of was the heavenly earth, where the Angels met with God, as in Job when the sons of God were gathered before God.

There is no second earth in Heaven written in God's Word. You simply don't understand there was a joined heavenly-earth age prior to this world age we are in now, and have been in since Genesis 1:2. The world to come will be a return of this earth back to how it was before Satan rebelled.

The timing of Ezekiel 31 when referring to Satan as a high cedar in God's Garden of Eden, is about that time of old, that first heavenly-earth age. The result of his rebellion was that he was cast down to the earth, this earth we live on now. He was cast out of God's Presence, out of Eden. Eden is God's Abode, wherever it happens to be located.

Ezekiel clearly testifies to their fall from heaven with them that go down into the pit. All these verses are connected to pagan kings that practice witchcraft and worshipped the Devil and the 4/5 fallen angels.
Most misinterpret these verses, Ezekiel is actually prophecying about Satan going down into the bottomless pit with all the kings of the earth, all the men who practiced ancenstry worship and the raising of the dead, whether physically or spiritually. These are the kings that attack the heavenly Jerusalem with the Beast and the false prophet at the wedding supper battle. These men practiced a resurrection from the dead religion. They made themselves eternal thru the power or knowledge of the Devil and the fallen angels. This is what Christ meant when he said "indeed ye are gods but ye shall die like men', he was refering to the angels and these men made angels kings. There death as men will be eternal damnation in the lake of fire with the eternal angels deaths, eternal boundage in the lake of fire.

No sir, the heavenly Jerusalem is where God's Abode in Heaven is. What you're hinting to is the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" upon the breadth of the earth that Satan will lead the nations upon at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, on this earth (Rev.20:7-9). Christ is returning to THIS earth. His second coming is not about a return to Heaven, which is where He already is.

Another fact you're missing is that there is no gap between the Beasts describe in Daniel and Revelation. Daniel's prophecy was about Babylon, Persia/Medes, Grecia, and Rome. Rome is the 4th and 5th beast kingdoms on the earth, the 1st and 2nd beasts in Revelation. There's no gap, the 5th Roman beast kingdom lasts to the end of the world because like Daniel prophecied, it stomps, breaks, and conquers the world! Just like in Babylon, Persia/Media, and in Grecia, kings where named as horns (Ex. Alexander), so is Rome's horns, men, kings, emperors, Pontifices Maximi. And Rome just happens to be built on 7 of 10hills, have a sucession of 11 native emperors, seven were Julio Caesar dynasty, three were Flavians, and the 11th started his own dynasty after plucking up the three Flavians. This 11th horn/emperor also decreed the Caesars to be the emperors to be establishing Romes two horns for the 2nd beast.

That's not what the Daniel 2 Scripture is showing with a final beast kingdom existing at the time of His return. Sound's like you're trying to move Christ's second coming to some time back in history! That's an absurd idea, not written in God's Word at all.

Fact #3 there's no way the disciples are stil in the grave awaiting the rapture especially since Peter quoted David's state in the grave, on the day of Pentecost, in contrast to the Christ's ressurection as being the 1st of the dead, meaning the beginning of man's transformation into an eternal realm. Christ was bringing in the resurrection of the dead in Israel 1st and all the righteous at that time to eternal life in heaven where the angels live, not where God lives until this 1st resurrection. They reign a 1,000yrs then all the unrighteous dead up to that time are heavenly resurrected with the righteous that died between the 1st and 2nd heavenly resurrections. The 3rd resurrection is the wheat and tares harvest of the carnal earthly world. The righteous in the barn. New Jerusalem, and the wicked into the lake of fire, there's no throne judgement at the Trump of God.

Wrong again. The "last trump" event Paul preached has not happenned yet today. Sounds like you're pushing a doctrine of men called Preterism; of which the extreme version teaches that Christ's second coming already happenned back sometime in history. Both the saints that are asleep and those still alive on earth at Christ's return will be gathered together to Him, as written in 1 Thess.4. And as written in John 5:29, both the just and the wicked will be resurrected at the same time.

 

[precepts]

Veteran's
http://www.christianityboard.com/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&section=findpost&pid=87532

precepts, on 23 August 2010 - 09:00 PM, said:

You're missing two facts, there're two earths, the one we live on and the heavenly eath where the angels live. The verses I gave you early shows without a shadow of a doubt that the Eden the trees/fallen angels were thrown out of was the heavenly earth, where the Angels met with God, as in Job when the sons of God were gathered before God.

There is no second earth in Heaven written in God's Word. You simply don't understand there was a joined heavenly-earth age prior to this world age we are in now, and have been in since Genesis 1:2. The world to come will be a return of this earth back to how it was before Satan rebelled.

The timing of Ezekiel 31 when referring to Satan as a high cedar in God's Garden of Eden, is about that time of old, that first heavenly-earth age. The result of his rebellion was that he was cast down to the earth, this earth we live on now. He was cast out of God's Presence, out of Eden. Eden is God's Abode, wherever it happens to be located.

Definitely of the anti-christ spirit.. You just said that there's no earth in heaven but still claim Satan was thrown out of the garden of Eden in heaven.

Vet's

precepts,

Ezekiel clearly testifies to their fall from heaven with them that go down into the pit. All these verses are connected to pagan kings that practice witchcraft and worshipped the Devil and the 4/5 fallen angels.
Most misinterpret these verses, Ezekiel is actually prophecying about Satan going down into the bottomless pit with all the kings of the earth, all the men who practiced ancenstry worship and the raising of the dead, whether physically or spiritually. These are the kings that attack the heavenly Jerusalem with the Beast and the false prophet at the wedding supper battle. These men practiced a resurrection from the dead religion. They made themselves eternal thru the power or knowledge of the Devil and the fallen angels. This is what Christ meant when he said "indeed ye are gods but ye shall die like men', he was refering to the angels and these men made angels kings. There death as men will be eternal damnation in the lake of fire with the eternal angels deaths, eternal boundage in the lake of fire.

No sir, the heavenly Jerusalem is where God's Abode in Heaven is. What you're hinting to is the "camp of the saints" and "beloved city" upon the breadth of the earth that Satan will lead the nations upon at the end of Christ's thousand years reign, on this earth (Rev.20:7-9). Christ is returning to THIS earth. His second coming is not about a return to Heaven, which is where He already is.

Upon Christ's second coming, we wil be caught up in the air to meet him and will be carried into the barn which is New Jerusalem. The wicked like the tares are bundled together and thrown into the lake of fire where the Beast, the false prophet, the devil that decieved them, and all the ungodly up to the time of the 2nd resurrection/Gog and Magog war, are. The new heavenly earth and new heavenly Jerusalem are already in effect, that's why Revelation ends with blessed are those that keep the commandments that they may enter thru the gates into the city, new Jerusalem.

Veteran's

precepts'
Another fact you're missing is that there is no gap between the Beasts describe in Daniel and Revelation. Daniel's prophecy was about Babylon, Persia/Medes, Grecia, and Rome. Rome is the 4th and 5th beast kingdoms on the earth, the 1st and 2nd beasts in Revelation. There's no gap, the 5th Roman beast kingdom lasts to the end of the world because like Daniel prophecied, it stomps, breaks, and conquers the world! Just like in Babylon, Persia/Media, and in Grecia, kings where named as horns (Ex. Alexander), so is Rome's horns, men, kings, emperors, Pontifices Maximi. And Rome just happens to be built on 7 of 10hills, have a sucession of 11 native emperors, seven were Julio Caesar dynasty, three were Flavians, and the 11th started his own dynasty after plucking up the three Flavians. This 11th horn/emperor also decreed the Caesars to be the emperors to be establishing Romes two horns for the 2nd beast.

That's not what the Daniel 2 Scripture is showing with a final beast kingdom existing at the time of His return. Sound's like you're trying to move Christ's second coming to some time back in history! That's an absurd idea, not written in God's Word at all.

So you're telling me Satan has been here for 2,000yrs and there's no beast kingdom? Daniel 2 says in the days of the kings of the 4th and 5th beasts is when Christ will set up his kingdom, he didn't say the world would end at the time of the stone smiting the image. It's during Rome's occupation of Israel that Christ established his heavenly kingdom by resurrecting mankind thru the sacrifice of his blood thru his crucifixion. It is at this time of the image's feet that God forgives man trespasses and allows man to be redeemeded from the grave, the 1st resurrection.

Veteran's

precepts'
Fact #3 there's no way the disciples are stil in the grave awaiting the rapture especially since Peter quoted David's state in the grave, on the day of Pentecost, in contrast to the Christ's ressurection as being the 1st of the dead, meaning the beginning of man's transformation into an eternal realm. Christ was bringing in the resurrection of the dead in Israel 1st and all the righteous at that time to eternal life in heaven where the angels live, not where God lives until this 1st resurrection. They reign a 1,000yrs then all the unrighteous dead up to that time are heavenly resurrected with the righteous that died between the 1st and 2nd heavenly resurrections. The 3rd resurrection is the wheat and tares harvest of the carnal earthly world. The righteous in the barn. New Jerusalem, and the wicked into the lake of fire, there's no throne judgement at the Trump of God.

Wrong again. The "last trump" event Paul preached has not happenned yet today. Sounds like you're pushing a doctrine of men called Preterism; of which the extreme version teaches that Christ's second coming already happenned back sometime in history. Both the saints that are asleep and those still alive on earth at Christ's return will be gathered together to Him, as written in 1 Thess.4. And as written in John 5:29, both the just and the wicked will be resurrected at the same time.

And it seems like you lack reading comprehension. Of everything that I have written to you, which I consider to be golden nuggets/pearls, you keep harping on a lie. A 3rd grader could read and comprehend your folly. Keep knocking! :lol:

 

[omnicopy]

Threescore and ten years were given to the nation of Israel to have God's wrath poured out upon them so He would be comforted over their evil and abominations that were greater than any nation around them. This was given by Jeremiah. It says it was fulfilled in 2 Chorn. 36:21. Daniel saw from Jeremiah that 70 years were decreeded against Israel and he, Daniiel, was in those 70 yearss. He was living in Babylon in exile. He sought out to understand the 70 years that Jeremiah talked about. During his prayer and crying out to God an angel actually came and gave Daniel further understanding of the 70 years. Except they were called 70 weeks to him. Daniel was given to understand a deeper meaning of the 70 years. Jeremiah's 70 yearss came and went. The nation of Israel spent 70 actual years in Babylon and then they were told to flee from Babyon. It says the deliverance from the nation of Babylon would be talked about more than the deliverance out of Egypt. That doesn't really happen today. Probably because of all the false churches. The false churches tend to mess everything up of God's Word. We hear more talk about Egypt and the 10 plagues than we do of the people fleeing out of Babylon now.

Notice that Daniel saw most of the future events after he was thrown down in the lion's den. You might think this sounds stupid, but I often wonder how much tramatic stress syndrone played in Daniel's life after that event. I really do. Dreams are a great part of tramatic stress. But Daniel's dreams were of God, God used them. That is just something I have observed myself.

Jeremiah's 70 yearss were for 70 yearss of the wrath of God to pour out upon the nation of Israel to comfort God for all of Isreal's evil and abominatons. Read Ezekiel. They would be hunted down and killed by God by the sword, famine, pestilence. Their dead bodies, it says, would be strewn by their idols, unburied. It was a great outpouring of wrath by God. It was also called the day of the Lord back then. It was only by the mercy of God the He didn't make a whole end of them. An extremely small amount of people would be left to eventually flee Babylon. God always said He wouldn't make a full end of them. At the same time that the nation of Israel was dwelt with the rest of the world was also dwelt with for their sins like Egyyt, Moab, Edom, and so on. It was a worldwide judgement at that time.

During Daniel's revelation of the 70 weeks it lasted to the time of Jesus' birth, death, and resurrection. But something happened during the time Jesus was on the earth. The Jews didn't accept Him at all. They killed their real King over their nation. They constantly were rejecting any attempts for God to reach them. They eventually ended up stirring up women against Paul when he started to go to the gentiles. In the end, for all this God broke off the branches of the good olive tree (Israel) and grafted the wild tree branches (gentile nations) in. This event makes all the difference in the world! We have yet to fully realize it's full inpact, I think. The husbandman was given to another. That another was the gentiles. They were not required to observe the laws in the Old Testament. and still are not to this day.

God said that unlike the nation of Israel the gentiles would hear.

It says that Israel can still be engrafted back into the good olive tree if they abide not in unbelief and doubt. They will become jealous of the relationship that gentiles will have with God.

If Daniel saw the same 70 years that Jeremiah saw, then they are 70 weeks of wrath. So the last week of wrath still has in a way not happened yet, even though the 70 years Jeremiah talked about has come and gone. So this last week, the 70th week that Daniel saw is going to be a week of wrath, not restoration for Isreal.

Is there any difference in the term "years" that Jeremiah saw and "weeks" that Danial saw? I'm trying to understand how one could last 70 actual years and the other over about 2,000 years.

So what do you all think?