70 AD revisited

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covenantee

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WW2 was far greater a tribulation than even 70 AD if we look to just israel.

But in Matt 24. Jesus is talking to all who are living. He also said he would cut the time short by his return.. the 70th week will end with the return of Christ.
Ask any historically knowledgeable Jew if he would rather have died by firing squad or crucifixion. Let us know what he says.

If you read "Wars of the Jews", you'll see that WW2 was a Sunday School picnic compared to 70 AD.

"All who are living" included the disciples. The 70th week ended 3 1/2 years after Jesus ascended, not decapitated off in some hallucinatory future.
 
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Randy Kluth

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70AD = Child's play as compared to the great tribulation. Wake up!!!
The argument that I made in the Opening Post suggested that the Jewish Diaspora of the NT era was the greatest punishment God has inflicted upon the Jewish People in history. So you're here just comparing the actual 70 AD event, which *began* the Great Tribulation of the Jewish People. That doesn't address the matter as I described it. Not saying you have to agree--just acknowledge the argument properly.
 

covenantee

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Number 1. who fail to look at history and see that what is spoken of in prophecy has not till this day occured yet
I'll take the knowledge, wisdom, and discernment of the historical saints over that of any modernist armchair delusionist.

Every time.
 
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Marty fox

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LOL!! Read very very very slowly===For there will be greater anguish than at any time since the world began. And it will never be so great again. In fact, unless that time of calamity is shortened, not a single person will survive. But it will be shortened for the sake of God’s chosen ones” (Matthew 24:21-22).
Only 97000 survived out of almost 1.2 million if the siege went much longer no one would have survived especially since they were starving to death.

It was the greatest anguish because at the end of the siege the Jews had realized that God had turned His back on them and they lost their temple forever.

They also realized that Jesus was their God and messiah and that they rejected and killed Him. They realized this because the city and temple were destroyed just like Jesus said that it would be and when Jesus said it would happen within that generation.
 

Marty fox

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What is the context of that verse? Is it regional in scope or global? The preceding verses indicate that it's referring to great tribulation in Jerusalem and Judea in particular, not the entire world. Jesus said that people in Judea would need to flee, not people everywhere. This means that Jesus was talking about something happening in that area in particular that would be as bad as anything that had ever happened before. And, if you read about the kind of atrocities that occurred in that area around 70 AD, then you would see that there is a sense in which what happened then was indeed as bad as anything that had ever happened before or will ever happen again.
Yes like a mother acting cooking and eating her baby

Another fact of that is that they were to pray that it wouldn’t happen on the sabbath. This is because the gates of the city would be locked and they couldn’t flee
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes like a mother acting cooking and eating her baby
Right. But, somehow, a future event will involve things that are worse than that and other horrible things that happened at that time? Uh, no, I don't think so. Are people just afraid to read about what happened at that time or what? They severely underestimate how terrible it was. Yet, they have never read about it, either.

Another fact of that is that they were to pray that it wouldn’t happen on the sabbath. This is because the gates of the city would be locked and they couldn’t flee
Right.
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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the tribulation that occured THEN was not the greatest that has ever been

Jesus also did not return then.
With the way you seem to be thinking about this, how could any event in the future be worse than the flood in Noah's day where only 8 people in the world survived? Is that really the context in which Jesus was speaking?
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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WW2 was far greater a tribulation than even 70 AD if we look to just israel.

But in Matt 24. Jesus is talking to all who are living. He also said he would cut the time short by his return.. the 70th week will end with the return of Christ.
Read Matthew 24:15-26. It's not His return that cuts the tribulation described in Matthew 24:15-21 short. Jesus indicated that there would be things that would happen some time after the tribulation described in Matthew 24:15-21 was cut short and some of those things are described in verses 23-26 (the rise of false Christs and false prophets who were so deceptive that they could possibly even deceive the elect). Also, if you look at the parallel passage of Luke 21:20-24a you can see that "the times of the Gentiles" would follow the great tribulation that Jesus described. So, He never said that His return is what puts an end to the great tribulation described in Matthew 24:15-21, Mark 13:14-19 and Luke 21:20-24a.
 
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Marty fox

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Right. But, somehow, a future event will involve things that are worse than that and other horrible things that happened at that time? Uh, no, I don't think so. Are people just afraid to read about what happened at that time or what? They severely underestimate how terrible it was. Yet, they have never read about it, either.


Right.
Yes the Romans crucified multiple Jews on single crosses because there were way more Jews and wood
 
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Spiritual Israelite

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Yes the Romans crucified multiple Jews on single crosses because there were way more Jews and wood
Right. There's just many examples of horrific things that happend at that time. If people would just take the time to read about the kinds of atrocities that happened at that time, they can then realize that it's silly to think that anything worse will ever happen in terms of atrocities committed by people against other people.
 

Marty fox

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Right. There's just many examples of horrific things that happend at that time. If people would just take the time to read about the kinds of atrocities that happened at that time, they can then realize that it's silly to think that anything worse will ever happen in terms of atrocities committed by people against other people.
They were so starved out that they actually ate the leather on their shields
 

Spiritual Israelite

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They were so starved out that they actually ate the leather on their shields
Yes, I actually just read about that today. And the leather on their belts and such. Again, if people would just take some time to read about what happened back then, they might think of these things very differently. And, it's not as if believing that part of the Olivet Discourse is about 70 AD means you have to believe all of it is about that. People seem to think that if they acknowledge some is about what happened in 70 AD then they have to acknowledge all of it is about that, but that is simply not the case.
 
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Marty fox

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Yes, I actually just read about that today. And the leather on their belts and such. Again, if people would just take some time to read about what happened back then, they might think of these things very differently. And, it's not as if believing that part of the Olivet Discourse is about 70 AD means you have to believe all of it is about that. People seem to think that if they acknowledge some is about what happened in 70 AD then they have to acknowledge all of it is about that, but that is simply not the case.
I have a study where I go through verse by verse comparing it to history.

When you put Matthew 24 and line it up with the six seals in Revelation chapter 6 you will see the similarities
 

Eternally Grateful

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Did you read what I said? I said the NT Diaspora of the Jews has been the worst punishment in Israel's history! By comparison, the Babylonian exile only lasted 70 years. We are now close to 2000 years since the 70 AD destruction of Jerusalem and the symbol of their covenant with God--the temple!

Not only so, but there have been *many* incidences in NT history in which the existence of the Jews was itself threatened, including the Holocaust under the Nazis. How could any prior Jewish Punishment compare? Do you understand my argument? I'm not saying you have to agree with it.
yes I read what you said.

Isreal has been dispersed since assyria destroyed them

Judah has been dispersed since babylon. They never were restored to Israel. Thats why paul met jews all over the known world in his missionary journeys. Israel were slaves of Rome during the time of Christ.

so what you are trying to show me does not fit..

the time of great tribulation occurs AFTER the abomination of desolation which is mentioned by Jesus in matt 24 and Daniel in Dan 9.

This even has not happened yet (in spite of some who believe it happened in 70 AD. this is not true. The city and sanctuary were destroyed by the people of the prince who is to come in 70 Ad)

the birth pangs have not happened yet.

and again, Jesus said no flesh would survive if he did not put an end to it.. Please show me how this was possible in 70 AD
 

Eternally Grateful

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Ask any historically knowledgeable Jew if he would rather have died by firing squad or crucifixion. Let us know what he says.

If you read "Wars of the Jews", you'll see that WW2 was a Sunday School picnic compared to 70 AD.

"All who are living" included the disciples. The 70th week ended 3 1/2 years after Jesus ascended, not decapitated off in some hallucinatory future.
how can this be when the people of the prince who is to come destroy the city and sanctuary BEFORE the 70th week begins?

If you think 70 AD was more severe than WW2, you have a serious problem..
 

Eternally Grateful

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Historical expositors "who fail to look at history".

Thanks for the guffaw.
lol. I will take what the word of God says. I was warned about following men..

Again. Many of the things spoken of in prophecy has not yet occurred. If they have not yet occurred. they are yet future.

Basic math shows this
 

Eternally Grateful

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The context is in relation to all flesh in Judea or Jerusalem, not in the world. Most people in Jerusalem were killed at that time.
that makes utterly no sense.

And does not fit with the whole of biblical prophecy..

in either case. what happens to stop it?

Christ returns..

Has that happened yet?

No I did not think so