70 AD revisited

[Eternally Grateful]

You still haven't explained why you replaced "war" with "wars" in the passage.

Let's see if you can explain that before we proceed further.

war desolationS (plural)

that has been going on since 70 AD. jerusalem has lied desolate. and many wars have occurred since then.

again, this coincides with what jesus said, there will be wars and rumers of wars. nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. but the end is not yet.

This also happens after the destruction of the city and BEFORE the 70th week begins in the passage..

Israel has been at war since babylon. They have never had an end of war..

 

[covenantee]

war desolationS (plural)

that has been going on since 70 AD. jerusalem has lied desolate. and many wars have occurred since then.

again, this coincides with what jesus said, there will be wars and rumers of wars. nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom. but the end is not yet.

This also happens after the destruction of the city and BEFORE the 70th week begins in the passage..

Israel has been at war since babylon. They have never had an end of war..

Singular "war". The war between the Jews and Romans leading up to 70 AD.

Not the plural "wars" of which Jesus spoke.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

that makes utterly no sense.

Oh, really? It doesn't make sense to think that when Jesus said let those in Judea flee to the mountains He was talking about tribulation that would occur in Judea? Wow, what was I thinking? Clearly, He was referring to global tribulation when saying those in JUDEA should flee to the mountains. How could I miss that?

And does not fit with the whole of biblical prophecy..

in either case. what happens to stop it?

Christ returns..

Has that happened yet?

No I did not think so

You are not putting any effort into considering what it actually says. Do you see verses 23-26? That describes things that happen AFTER the tribulation described in Matthew 24:15-21 is over. So, how can Christ's return end it in that case? It can't.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

so medical experiments on living Jews who were cut open alive like we used to cut open frogs in school is not greater?

being led alive into heat chambers and cooked alive is not worse

being led alive into gas chambers and watching your kids die horrific deaths is not worse.

That didn't involve the near complete destruction of a city. How about all but 8 people in the world dying at once like what happened with the flood in Noah's day? Can anything be worse than that? Not really. So, what was the context that Jesus was speaking in? Do you even think about that?

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

how can that be when it has not even started yet?

The 70th week hasn't even started yet? How can that be? It says the Messiah would be cut off after the 69th week (Daniel 9:26). That places His death within the 70th week. So, how can you say it hasn't even started yet?

Can you tell me your understanding of how the following verse would be fulfilled in the future since you think the fulfillment of the six things listed here will all be in the future?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

 

[Spiritual Israelite]

you do not read the news much do you?

What a ridiculous thing to say. Have you read at all about what happened in 70 AD? I bet you haven't. The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with reading the news. Good grief.

 

[Timtofly]

That didn't involve the near complete destruction of a city. How about all but 8 people in the world dying at once like what happened with the flood in Noah's day? Can anything be worse than that? Not really. So, what was the context that Jesus was speaking in? Do you even think about that?

Yes, people living through the time when fire destroys all the works of modern man. When 8 billion on earth are forever changed, most ending up in the LOF. Were there 8 billion destroyed in the Flood?

 

[jeffweeder]

Yes, people living through the time when fire destroys all the works of modern man. When 8 billion on earth are forever changed, most ending up in the LOF. Were there 8 billion destroyed in the Flood?

Not a question of numbers Tim...., the point is all the wicked perish and all the righteous are saved. Only the saved get to realize the post second coming reality, just as Noah did when he survived the "all life" ending event.

Genesis 6:17
For behold, I, even I, will bring a flood of waters on the earth, to destroy all life under the heavens in which there is the breath and spirit of life; everything that is on the land shall die.

1. Matthew 24:38
   For as in those days before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the [very] day when Noah entered the ark,
   
   
2. Matthew 24:39
   and they did not know or understand until the flood came "and swept them all away;" so will the coming of the Son of Man be [unexpected judgment].

2 Peter 2:5
and if He did not spare the ancient world, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, with seven others, when He brought [the judgment of a flood upon the world of the ungodly;


70 ad was the beginning of the days of vengeance, with the destruction of the temple and the dispersion of jews to all nations as stated by Jesus himself.

It ends with the second coming and the Noahic event when only the righteous survive as stated by Jesus himself.

Read carefully...,

21 For at that time there will be a great tribulation (pressure, distress, oppression), such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will [again].

22 And if those days [of tribulation] had not been cut short, no human life would be saved; but for the sake of the elect (God’s chosen ones) those days will be shortened. 23 Then if anyone says to you [during the great tribulation], ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and they will provide great signs and wonders, so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect (God’s chosen ones). 25 Listen carefully, I have told you in advance.

 

[ewq1938]

Not a question of numbers Tim...., the point is all the wicked perish and all the righteous are saved.

I noticed you cited the example of Noah but left the example of Lot out. Could that be because the story of Lot does not indicate all the wicked perishing? That throws a wrench into the Amill version of the second coming.

Luk 17:26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
Luk 17:27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
Luk 17:29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
Luk 17:30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.

Everyone knows this was NOT a global eradication of the wicked. It is a localized, partial destruction of the wicked and so was Noah's flood. They are sister stories teaching the same thing which is the righteous are taken to a place of safety while the wrath of God punished the wicked but only a certain amount of them are killed. The rest live on and we know why since Rev 2 and 19 tell us there is a reign over the unsaved nations after the second coming.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Singular "war". The war between the Jews and Romans leading up to 70 AD.

Not the plural "wars" of which Jesus spoke.

again your problem is timing

the passage said the war would be AFTER 70 AD destruction. not leading up to.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Oh, really? It doesn't make sense to think that when Jesus said let those in Judea flee to the mountains He was talking about tribulation that would occur in Judea? Wow, what was I thinking? Clearly, He was referring to global tribulation when saying those in JUDEA should flee to the mountains. How could I miss that?


You are not putting any effort into considering what it actually says. Do you see verses 23-26? That describes things that happen AFTER the tribulation described in Matthew 24:15-21 is over. So, how can Christ's return end it in that case? It can't.

29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.

Immediately after.. ie. when it ends.. what ends the tribulation? What prevents mankind from wiping out all flesh on earth?

the return of Christ.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

That didn't involve the near complete destruction of a city. How about all but 8 people in the world dying at once like what happened with the flood in Noah's day? Can anything be worse than that? Not really. So, what was the context that Jesus was speaking in? Do you even think about that?

once again, the tribulation occurs AFTER the destruction of the city.

we know this,. because the abomination of desolation happens in the middle of the 70th week. long after the city was destroyed which did not occur until almost 40 years after the messiah was cut off. after the 69th week.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

The 70th week hasn't even started yet? How can that be? It says the Messiah would be cut off after the 69th week (Daniel 9:26). That places His death within the 70th week. So, how can you say it hasn't even started yet?

Can you tell me your understanding of how the following verse would be fulfilled in the future since you think the fulfillment of the six things listed here will all be in the future?

Daniel 9:24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy.

Actually I already shows all of you by breaking down the passage (post 59)

non of you have responded to what I said. you keep just acting as if I ignore it

One thing we can know. have those things in vs 24 occured yet? No!

so the 70 weeks either have not been completed. Or the angel Gabriel lied.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

What a ridiculous thing to say. Have you read at all about what happened in 70 AD? I bet you haven't. The Olivet Discourse has nothing to do with reading the news. Good grief.

Yes I have read it

And I have studied history of all the wars since then.

and I can tell you 70 AD was a picnic compared to WW1 and WW2 and these will be picnics compared to the great tribulation.

When God says it. I trust God.. so I believe it. whether I see it or not.

 

[covenantee]

again your problem is timing

the passage said the war would be AFTER 70 AD destruction. not leading up to.

Your problem is basic comprehension. The 70 AD destruction was the war. There was no other war. So when Daniel declares that "unto the end of the war desolations are determined", the war he is referring to is the 70 AD war. It is not a different war.

Sheesh.

 

[covenantee]

One thing we can know. have those things in vs 24 occured yet? No!

Everything in Daniel 9:24 was accomplished and fulfilled completely and perfectly by Christ at Calvary.

If you deny and reject His reconciliation for your iniquity, then you are still in your iniquity.

If you deny and reject His everlasting righteousness, then you are still in your unrighteousness.

Too bad.

 

[covenantee]

and I can tell you 70 AD was a picnic compared to WW1 and WW2 and these will be picnics compared to the great tribulation.

If you have an example of infanticide and cannibalism by Jews against Jews during the world wars, please provide a link.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Your problem is basic comprehension. The 70 AD destruction was the war. There was no other war. So when Daniel declares that "unto the end of the war desolations are determined", the war he is referring to is the 70 AD war. It is not a different war.

Sheesh.

No,

thats your problem

And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary.

This is the event!


The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined.

This is saying the city and temple will be left desolate until the end of these war desolations are determined.

If I were you I would stop trying to attack onother persons character and worry about your own..

 

[Eternally Grateful]

Everything in Daniel 9:24 was accomplished and fulfilled completely and perfectly by Christ at Calvary.

If you deny and reject His reconciliation for your iniquity, then you are still in your iniquity.

If you deny and reject His everlasting righteousness, then you are still in your unrighteousness.

Too bad.

let see

“Seventy [e]weeks are determined
For your people and for your holy city,
To finish the transgression, Not yet completed. Israel is still in sin and have still rejected her messiah They are still in transgression
[f]To make an end of sins, Not yet completed. israel is still in sin and have still rejected her messiah
To make reconciliation for iniquity,
To bring in everlasting righteousness, This will happen when Jesus returns to earth.
To seal up vision and prophecy, there is still as of yet unfulfilled prophecy
And to anoint the Most Holy. Again, Will happen when the most hgoly returns to earth and takes up residence in Israel, namely jerusalem in his fathers house and he comes to rule with a rod of Iron. Has not yet happened

“Know therefore and understand,
That from the going forth of the command
To restore and build Jerusalem
Until Messiah the Prince,
There shall be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks;
The [h]street shall be built again, and the [i]wall,
Even in troublesome times. (fulfilled)

26 “And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah shall [j]be cut off, but not for Himself; (fulfilled)


And the people of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary. (fulfilled)

The end of it shall be with a flood,
And till the end of the war desolations are determined. In progress


27 Then he shall confirm a covenant with many for one week; Not yet fulfilled. has not occurred yet
But in the middle of the week
He shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering.
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the [l]desolate.” Not yet fulfilled. has not occurred yet

nice try, But your just wrong.

 

[Eternally Grateful]

If you have an example of infanticide and cannibalism by Jews against Jews during the world wars, please provide a link.

I don't need examples of this.. Your just trying to put the truth on hold while you look for reasons to ignore it.

thats on you my friend. Not me..