A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

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Aunty Jane

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About the only thing you got right is that the Kingdom of God is not of this world. You placed it in the future as something not yet established, yet Jesus said to His disciples, the Kingdom of God is within you.
The Kingdom rules now, but only with those who belong to Christ.....it will rule in a very real way when the Kingdom “comes” as it will to rule the earth...ready or not.

When Jesus said that the “Kingdom of God is within you”...that is not really what he said at all.
He was speaking to the Pharisees, of whom he said that their hearts were wicked, so the Kingdom was certainly NOT within them, but reading it again in Greek it says more correctly, “the kingdom of God is in your midst”...meaning that the King of God’s Kingdom was right there among them, “in their midst” and they failed to recognise or acknowledge him.
 

quietthinker

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Can you show me where it says that in the scriptures?
Would you believe it if I showed you?.....Would you believe that with Jesus you are looking straight at God's declaration?

Do you really think that Jesus hanging on a cross who clearly said he could call on ten thousand angels to rescue him if he desired but who chose to allow the darkness to be unveiled for what it really is by allowing it to kill the Prince of Life; do you really thing that is a 'mamby pamby all forgiving sop'?
We shape up or he will ship us out.
Do you really think the criminal hanging next to Jesus had any chance of 'shaping up' .....did Jesus ship him out?
Like it or not, Jehovah is a dictator....but a benevolent one who has our best interests at heart always....so he expects obedience because from day one, that is all he ever asked of his earthly children. It was a simple formula...obey and continue living....or disobey and lose the gift of life. Conditions have always applied.
What dictator ever behaved like this?; 'The servants who are ready and waiting for his return will be rewarded. I tell you the truth, he himself will seat them, put on an apron, and serve them....' Luke 12:37

What man assumes as natural ie, domination, is not the principle mode of operation of Heaven. The principle of God was displayed in Jesus allowing himself to be killed.....yes, he would rather be killed than kill.
Joining the dots in the order on display in Jesus is not difficult when self honesty is a priority. Jesus is the living breathing active Word of God. The scriptures bear witness to this. The question is, how do we read them? Do we superimpose our controlling, dominating, self interested inclinations onto God and thereby make a God in our image, in our likeness?

Yes, it is Satan's studied intent to misrepresent God as either violent and dominating or a Mamby Pamby forgiving sop with no backbone, limper than a wet noodle.....but, a God who serves rather than one who demands worship, a God who would rather be killed than kill, a God who loves his creation more than his own life.....yes, a God who the natural man could not invent, is not one wanted by the darkness.
 
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Aunty Jane

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You do realise you belong to a false cult.
.
People would have considered Jesus as the leader of a cult.
So, what if it’s you...? How would you know? Are you not associated with a group outside of the mainstream?
 

quietthinker

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further.....the strength, determination and love required to have all power and authority to then allow oneself as did Jesus to defer to the Father....to allow oneself be killed and that in a protracted torturous public way, totally disarms any concept that Jesus's attitude is that of domination over others and or has a mamby pamby soppy forgiveness with no backbone. It speaks very loudly of something totally unfamiliar within the human breast......and for those who can hear, arrests our attention like nothing else.

Our problem is over familiarity with the text.....stories and words we have heard or read so often the impact does not register any more than to justify a selfish and shortsighted view of God.
 
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Enoch111

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When Jesus said that the “Kingdom of God is within you”...that is not really what he said at all.
According to the naysayers, Jesus actually always meant the opposite of what He said. So when He said that He is God, he actually meant that He is not God. And so you can twist everything that is stated in the Bible, right now. But later on you will give account for perverting the truth.
 
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Aunty Jane

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Would you believe it if I showed you?.....Would you believe that with Jesus you are looking straight at God's declaration?

Do you really think that Jesus hanging on a cross who clearly said he could call on ten thousand angels to rescue him if he desired but who chose to allow the darkness to be unveiled for what it really is by allowing it to kill the Prince of Life; do you really thing that is a 'mamby pamby all forgiving sop'?
My goodness, is that what you think I said....?
By that comment, I was speaking about those who think that God will forgive them any sin despite the fact that they continue in it, unrepentantly. That “all forgiving sop” does not exist.

Do you really think the criminal hanging next to Jesus had any chance of 'shaping up' .....did Jesus ship him out?
That criminal had a last minute change of heart.....but that did not mean that he was going to heaven....Jesus promised that he would be ‘with him in paradise’, not heaven. In the resurrection (this thief was paying the wages of his own sin by dying on his own execution stake) Jesus will be “with” this man by calling him from his grave, and becoming his King in the earthly part of God’s Kingdom. (John 5:28-29) Jesus calls all the dead from their graves.

What dictator ever behaved like this?; 'The servants who are ready and waiting for his return will be rewarded. I tell you the truth, he himself will seat them, put on an apron, and serve them....' Luke 12:37
What is a dictator? Every human dictator has been a tyrant because as soon as you give a flawed human power over others, it corrupts him. But Christ proved himself incorruptible like his Father. He will be a most wonderful King but like his Father, he demands obedience and loyalty to his God.
Since this Master has a Master, the Son is a servant along with his “brothers”.....but only God is the Father who is served by them all. God has children, not brothers. He is a most benevolent dictator in that he is incorruptible, and has the best interests of all his creation at heart.

What man assumes as natural ie, domination, is not the principle mode of operation of Heaven. The principle of God was displayed in Jesus allowing himself to be killed.....yes, he would rather be killed than kill.
And yet God’s laws were not negotiable.....capital offences merited the death penalty. God’s justice is not served by sentiment. Justice demands what it demands. Only God’s mercy could change an outcome....and that had to be on merit....mitigating circumstances were the reason.
Were God’s executioners, murderers? Not if he authorised them to take a life for breaking his law.

Going the dots in the order on display in Jesus is not difficult when self honesty is prioritised.....he is the living breathing active Word of God. The scriptures bear witness to him. The question is, how do we read them? Do we superimpose our controlling, dominating, self interested inclinations onto God and thereby make a God in our image?
Are you not doing the same? Are you not fashioning God in your own image?
He is who the scriptures tell us he is. He commanded at times that his people exact his revenge on his enemies....and sometimes that was enacted on those of his own who disobeyed him as well. You can’t make God into someone he is not.

Is God controlling? You bet he is. Free will was given as a precious gift, but it was not unconditional.
Satan used God’s command concerning the TKGE as weapon against him.....he has been doing so ever since, encouraging people to see him as a tyrannical despot. The churches have continued to portray him as a cruel torturer of souls in an eternal fiery hell! When such a place was far from his thoughts. (Jeremiah 7:31) There is no such place.

Conversely, others portray him as weak and all forgiving. He is neither of those things.
All he ever offered mankind was the option to obey him and continue living....or to disobey and forfeit the gift of life, as those undeserving of it. How is that not fair?

Yes, it is Satan's studied intent to misrepresent God as either violent and dominating or a Mamby Pamby all forgiving sop with no backbone, limper than a wet noodle.....but a God who serves rather than one who demands worship, a God who would rather be killed than kill, a God who loves his creation more than his own life.....yes, a God who the natural man could not invent, is not one wanted by the darkness.
Jesus is a “servant” of the same God that we are (Acts 3:13)....he was the one who willingly offered what God could not. An immortal God cannot die, but a mortal creature of flesh could......Jesus was “sent” by his God and Father (John 17:3) to become that mortal human...and he willingly gave his life for us because he has been at his Father’s side since creation began, and is intensely focussed on the original purpose of his God in bringing that to fruition. (Isaiah 55:11; Revelation 21:2-4)

Your God is simply not the one I know from the scripture, QT....he sounds like you.
 

Aunty Jane

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According to the naysayers, Jesus actually always meant the opposite of what He said. So when He said that He is God, he actually meant that He is not God. And so you can twist everything that is stated in the Bible, right now. But later on you will give account for perverting the truth.
Please show us where he ever said that he was God.....please...just one statement where he admits to being the Almighty will do....

I have actually “untwisted” passages in the Bible that others have twisted for you......later on, we will all give an accounting.
Some of us are not going to be very happy....(Matthew 7:21-23)
 

quietthinker

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Your God is simply not the one I know from the scripture, QT...
That is apparent AJ. Have you made a God in your own image and likeness?....have you reduced him to one like fallen man in his values, priorities and generosity? Self honesty begs an answer....not to me but to yourself

The Pharisee's in Jesus day also had a God they said was from scripture.....Jesus put them straight '.....if you knew me, you would know my Father also' John 8:19

and to his disciples, Phillip in particular he says;
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.....' John 14:7-9

Reading the above text becomes clear when coupled with Colossians 15-20
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation. 16For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him. 17He is before all things, and in him all things hold together. 18And he is the head of the body, the church; he is the beginning and the firstborn from among the dead, so that in everything he might have the supremacy. 19For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, 20and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross.
and
Colossians 2:9
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
 
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Truth7t7

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I have explained it as the Bible does. The whole purpose of the Kingdom is to reconcile sinful humans with the God that their forefather separated them from. He sent his Christ to make that reconciliation possible. The good news of the Kingdom is that humans who seek God can actually fully detach themselves from the wicked governance of this world and establish their citizenship in God’s Kingdom.
We cannot have dual citizenship because, to become a friend of the world makes one an enemy of God. (James 4:4) Why do you think “Babylon the great” is presented as a prostitute?...in bed with God’s enemies.

The definition of a kingdom is a “king” and his “dom”ain. It’s not really that complicated. The devil rules this world, but God rules the next one. We can be there if we qualify for life. Obedience is how we qualify. It has always been this way.


Can you show me where it says that in the scriptures? God has always had his laws and his enforcers because he will not tolerate the kind of independence that creates an attitude where we can pick and choose what to believe and what to practice. If you think that Jehovah is some ‘mamby pamby’ all forgiving sop, then I have news for you. Why does God require worship? Why does he stipulate in very clear terms what is acceptable to him and what is not....he does not leave those things up to us.
We shape up or he will ship us out.

With true Christianity, there is no dominance except by God. He has assigned shepherds to care for his sheep, whom we are told to obey (Hebrews 13:17) which is not dominance as you suggest, but a provision whereby the flock is protected from spiritual danger....one of the greatest spiritual dangers is thinking that we can dictate to God what we will or won’t do or believe. The other is tolerating wolves among the sheep. The trouble is, the sheep’s clothing makes identification of the wolves difficult. In a world ruled by the devil, nothing is as it appears to be. Good is bad and bad is good.....wolves look like sheep and vice versa.

Like it or not, Jehovah is a dictator....but a benevolent one who has our best interests at heart always....so he expects obedience because from day one, that is all he ever asked of his earthly children. It was a simple formula...obey and continue living....or disobey and lose the gift of life. Conditions have always applied.
Can a person be part of (God's Kingdom) outside the authority and leadership of the Jehovahs Witnesses?
 

Aunty Jane

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That is apparent AJ. Have you made a God in your own image and likeness?....have you reduced him to one like fallen man in his values, priorities and generosity? Self honesty begs an answer....not to me but to yourself
I have no idea where your God comes from QT....How is the God of Jesus Christ different from the God of Israel?
confused0082.gif
And how is this God different to yours?

I have presented the God that they worshipped, remembering that Jesus was not sent to the Pharisees because they were incorrigible. No prophet had really succeeded in keeping them in line.....as Jesus lamented....
“Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who have been sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling." (Matthew 23:37) But God kept Israel as his people until his purpose in connection with them was fulfilled...producing their Messiah right on time and in fulfillment of all the Messianic prophesies.....Jehovah kept his end of the bargain, but they never did, so he cast them off and chose a new nation, "one producing its fruits". (Acts 15:14; Matthew 21:42-46) Jesus led the lost sheep out of a corrupted religious system and I believe that he is doing the same during this "time of the end".

The Pharisee's in Jesus day also had a God they said was from scripture.....Jesus put them straight '.....if you knew me, you would know my Father also' John 8:19
Yes, the Father taught Jesus everything he knows.....like Father, like son....in every way except deity.

and to his disciples, Phillip in particular he says;
If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him.”
Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”
Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father.....' John 14:7-9
Again Jesus is alluding to how closely he follows the Father in all his ways.....this is not Jesus claiming to be God.

Hebrews 1:3-4...
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they."

Say what??? How on earth could Paul say that if he believed that Jesus was God? How can God "become better than the angels" or "inherit a name more excellent than they"?
What is a "representation"? If someone is a representative, is he the person that he represents? You tell me....

Reading the above text becomes clear when coupled with Colossians 15-20
Let's see.....
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him". (NASB)
Again Jesus is the "image" of his Father. An image is a representation, not the original, but like him.

Just as Jesus came from God "through" Mary, so all creation came from God "through" the Son. It was created "through him and for him".....it is God's gift to him...his inheritance.

Colossians 2:9
9For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form,
This is as close as a human can get to being like God.....a spirit son whose life was transferred to the womb of a human woman....he became the human equivalent of the persona of God.

These are obscure terms....."all the fullness to dwell in him"...."the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form"...these are not terms used in the English language, nor are they well understood, so we are behind the eight ball here when it comes to accurate interpretation. Its a best guess really.

But it simply doesn't come right out and say that he is God.
 
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Cooper

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I have no idea where your God comes from QT....How is the God of Jesus Christ different from the God of Israel?
confused0082.gif
And how is this God different to yours?

Precisely. After having had it explained to you numerous times, you have no idea, no understanding, no comprehension.
.
 
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Truth7t7

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Again Jesus is alluding to how closely he follows the Father in all his ways.....this is not Jesus claiming to be God.

Hebrews 1:3-4...
And He is the radiance of His glory and the exact representation of His nature, and upholds all things by the word of His power. When He had made purification of sins, He sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high, 4 having become so much better than the angels, to the extent that He has inherited a more excellent name than they."

Say what??? How on earth could Paul say that if he believed that Jesus was God? How can God "become better than the angels" or "inherit a name more excellent than they"?
What is a "representation"? If someone is a representative, is he the person that he represents? You tell me....


Let's see.....
"He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation: 16 for by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones, or dominions, or rulers, or authorities—all things have been created through Him and for Him. 17 He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together 18 He is also the head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything. 19 For it was the Father’s good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him". (NASB)
Again Jesus is the "image" of his Father. An image is a representation, not the original, but like him.

Just as Jesus came from God "through" Mary, so all creation came from God "through" the Son. It was created "through him and for him".....it is God's gift to him...his inheritance.


This is as close as a human can get to being like God.....a spirit son whose life was transferred to the womb of a human woman....he became the human equivalent of the persona of God.

These are obscure terms....."all the fullness to dwell in him"...."the fullness of the deity lives in bodily form"...these are not terms used in the English language, nor are they well understood, so we are behind the eight ball here when it comes to accurate interpretation. Its a best guess really.

But it simply doesn't come right out and say that he is God.
Jesus Christ openly claimed to be Jehovah God, the great "I Am", the very reason the Jews took up stones to kill him

John 8:58-59KJV
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
59 Then took they up stones to cast at him: but Jesus hid himself, and went out of the temple, going through the midst of them, and so passed by.

Exodus 3:14KJV
14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
 
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Truth7t7

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Precisely. After having had it explained to you numerous times, you have no idea, no understanding, no comprehension.
.
Blinded by the Watchtower and Tract Society, better known as the Jehovah's Witnesses
 

Cooper

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Blinded by the Watchtower and Tract Society, better known as the Jehovah's Witnesses

Yes. Blinded is right. There are thousands of gods across the world, a Biblical example would be the apostle Paul in Rome. They are all the invention of men. In this case, the god of the Jehovah Witnesses is an invention of the man Charles Taze Russell.
.
 
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Enoch111

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Precisely. After having had it explained to you numerous times, you have no idea, no understanding, no comprehension.
.
That is because of wilful blindness. When somebody is wilfully blind, God blinds them to the truth. Which means it is a total waste of time saying anything.
 

Cooper

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That is because of wilful blindness. When somebody is wilfully blind, God blinds them to the truth. Which means it is a total waste of time saying anything.
Yes. If it was due to ignorance, it is excusable, but if all the facts are presented and ignored, even to the point of ridicule it is deliberate, and for such people their end is worse than their beginning.
.
 
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quietthinker

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Your God is simply not the one I know from the scripture, QT....he sounds like you.
With respect AJ, tell me what you think I'm saying? I'm asking because I suspect you have not heard my replies to your question.
 

quietthinker

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Yes. If it was due to ignorance, it is excusable, but if all the facts are presented and ignored, even to the point of ridicule it is deliberate, and for such people their end is worse than their beginning.
.
I wouldn't be so quick to draw the conclusions you have Cooper......you might find it condemns yourself.