A Closer Look at the Genesis Creation Account

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Aunty Jane

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With respect AJ, tell me what you think I'm saying? I'm asking because I suspect you have not heard my replies to your question.
I have never been good at cryptics QT.....you have to come right out and say what you mean....no ambiguity.
unsure

I honestly hate obscurity....but not as much as I hate the kind ignorance I see displayed on this thread. Its actually quite pathetic IMO.
All bluster and judgment, but no facts or any real understanding of the scriptures they refer to.
No understanding about the Kingdom at all.....they were silenced by the question....couldn't answer it, but continue their tirade.
palm


Since Jesus is the judge of all of us, we should let him do his job.

In the meantime, Bible discussion is what I am here for, but its hard to find those who want to actually discuss the Bible.

So if you would like to state things more succinctly, I might be able to read you a little better.....
what

I'm sure you know exactly what you are saying...but its not coming out as understandable from my end.
 

Truth7t7

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That is because of wilful blindness. When somebody is wilfully blind, God blinds them to the truth. Which means it is a total waste of time saying anything.
Wilfull disobedience in mans pride

Example: Below scripture clearly teaches that when Jesus Christ returns the believers resurrection takes place, this is (The End)

The teaching below is simple and very easy to understand, why do men deny this truth, because of that in bold red above

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end
, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.
 

Enoch111

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Below scripture clearly teaches that when Jesus Christ returns the believers resurrection takes place, this is (The End)
That is definitely NOT what the Bible teaches. The Resurrection/Rapture takes place long, long, long, before "the end". It is even stated in 1 Corinthians 15.
 

Truth7t7

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That is definitely NOT what the Bible teaches. The Resurrection/Rapture takes place long, long, long, before "the end". It is even stated in 1 Corinthians 15.
There is one time of resurrection for all, this takes place on the (Last Day) at the Second Coming of Jesus Christ

There are (Two) resurrections on this (Last Day) the righteous are blessed to be in the (First Resurrection) to eternal life, on such the (Second) death resurrection has no power.

1.) (First) Resurrection To Life
2.) (Second) Resurrection To Damnation, The Second Death

Revelation 20:6KJV
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The (Last Day) Resurrection Of All Below

John 5:28-29KJV
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth;
they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.


John 6:39-40KJV
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.

1 Corinthians 15:21-24KJV
21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.
24 Then cometh the end,
when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power.

The (Last Day) Judgement

John 12:48KJV
48 He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.
 

quietthinker

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I have never been good at cryptics QT.....you have to come right out and say what you mean....no ambiguity.
unsure

I honestly hate obscurity....but not as much as I hate the kind ignorance I see displayed on this thread. Its actually quite pathetic IMO.
All bluster and judgment, but no facts or any real understanding of the scriptures they refer to.
No understanding about the Kingdom at all.....they were silenced by the question....couldn't answer it, but continue their tirade.
palm


Since Jesus is the judge of all of us, we should let him do his job.

In the meantime, Bible discussion is what I am here for, but its hard to find those who want to actually discuss the Bible.

So if you would like to state things more succinctly, I might be able to read you a little better.....
what

I'm sure you know exactly what you are saying...but its not coming out as understandable from my end.
The Kingdom of God! What is it? I've been throwing this question around in my mind for some years now. As we know, many of the things Jesus spoke pertain to the Kingdom of God. How is it the understanding of what he meant is so elusive? Are we looking for treasure where there is no treasure?.....and what is this treasure anyway?

These are my thoughts....God's Kingdom consists of a way of thinking and feeling and relating which has the interest of the other at heart. The term (Kingdom of God) is also used to describe process (like a mustard seed...is small but grows big, like leaven buried in flour....affecting everything around it.) It is both present in those whose hearts have been renewed and future .....ultimately it is and will become the absence of anything that diminishes relationship with others and our environment and the presence of everything that pertains to creativity, life and love and service.

The element of control and domination is absent....it is not needed where all energies are bent for willing heart felt service (mind, heart, intentions)
Jesus is its epitome!; he is the living, breathing witness to God's reality (God's Kingdom) amongst a people whose focus is self; whose desire is instant gratification and power over others, where exploitation of everything on our planet (from the cell to food production) for the purpose of control is standard fare.

The Kingdom of God is the absence of fear; fear in this sense being the fruit of self loathing....of hiding, of inadequacy, of desperation, need and meaninglessness. Conversely, God's Kingdom encompasses the abiding presence of joy and promise.

We often hear we were created to serve God but wouldn't we be surprised if we were created so God could serve us? Why do I ask that?
Because I look, look, look at Jesus.....did I say look? yes, look....why do I look? because in him is answered the mystery hidden for ages....and what do I see? I see our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God.
He is effectually saying by his presence and all he said and did, this is how God is! A favourite author puts it like this, 'in Jesus all the accumulated treasure of eternity is poured out in one gift; God gave till he could give no more'

'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life for God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved' John 3:16-17

an aside.....re God serving us. We have children so we can give them joy. What parent ever said to a new born, now, wipe your own backside, or what parent does not watch in anticipation seeing their child open a gift?

The angels were very excited when they visited the shepherds on Bethlehem's hill's; I guess they anticipated appreciation from Earths inhabitants? Their hearts must have been torn when they saw how we treated their Prince.

Long years ago o’er Bethlehem’s hills
Was seen a wondrous thing;
As shepherds watched the sleeping flocks
They heard the angels sing.
The anthem rolled among the clouds
When earth was hushed and still;
Its notes proclaimed sweet peace on earth,
To all mankind good will.

Refrain
Glory to God in the highest,
The angels’ song resounds,
Glory to God in the highest!

That song is sung by rich and poor,
Where’er the Christ is known;
’Tis sung in words, and sung in deeds,
Which bind all hearts in one.
Angels are still the choristers,
But we the shepherds are,
To bear the message which they bring,
To those both near and far:

Leigh R Brewer, 1892
 
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Brakelite

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The Kingdom of God! What is it? I've been throwing this question around in my mind for some years now. As we know, many of the things Jesus spoke pertain to the Kingdom of God. How is it the understanding of what he meant is so elusive? Are we looking for treasure where there is no treasure?.....and what is this treasure anyway?

These are my thoughts....God's Kingdom consists of a way of thinking and feeling and relating which has the interest of the other at heart. The term (Kingdom of God) is also used to describe process (like a mustard seed...is small but grows big, like leaven buried in flour....affecting everything around it.) It is both present in those whose hearts have been renewed and future .....ultimately it is and will become the absence of anything that diminishes relationship with others and our environment and the presence of everything that pertains to creativity, life and love and service.

The element of control and domination is absent....it is not needed where all energies are bent for willing heart felt service (mind, heart, intentions)
Jesus is its epitome!; he is the living, breathing witness to God's reality (God's Kingdom) amongst a people whose focus is self; whose desire is instant gratification and power over others, where exploitation of everything on our planet (from the cell to food production) for the purpose of control is standard fare.

The Kingdom of God is the absence of fear; fear in this sense being the fruit of self loathing....of hiding, of inadequacy, of desperation, need and meaninglessness. Conversely, God's Kingdom encompasses the abiding presence of joy and promise.

We often hear we were created to serve God but wouldn't we be surprised if we were created so God could serve us? Why do I ask that?
Because I look, look, look at Jesus.....did I say look? yes, look....why do I look? because in him is answered the mystery hidden for ages....and what do I see? I see our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God.
He is effectually saying by his presence and all he said and did, this is how God is! A favourite author puts it like this, 'in Jesus all the accumulated treasure of eternity is poured out in one gift; God gave till he could give no more'

'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life for God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved' John 3:16-17

an aside.....re God serving us. We have children so we can give them joy. What parent ever said to a new born, now, wipe your own backside, or what parent does not watch in anticipation seeing their child open a gift?

The angels were very excited when they visited the shepherds on Bethlehem's hill's; I guess they anticipated appreciation from Earths inhabitants? Their hearts must have been torn when they saw how we treated their Prince.

Long years ago o’er Bethlehem’s hills
Was seen a wondrous thing;
As shepherds watched the sleeping flocks
They heard the angels sing.
The anthem rolled among the clouds
When earth was hushed and still;
Its notes proclaimed sweet peace on earth,
To all mankind good will.

Refrain
Glory to God in the highest,
The angels’ song resounds,
Glory to God in the highest!

That song is sung by rich and poor,
Where’er the Christ is known;
’Tis sung in words, and sung in deeds,
Which bind all hearts in one.
Angels are still the choristers,
But we the shepherds are,
To bear the message which they bring,
To those both near and far:

Leigh R Brewer, 1892
And the years of eternity, as they roll, will bring richer and still more glorious revelations of God and of Christ. As knowledge is progressive, so will love, reverence, and happiness increase. The more men learn of God, the greater will be their admiration of his character. As Jesus opens before them the riches of redemption, and the amazing achievements in the great controversy with Satan, the hearts of the ransomed thrill with more fervent devotion, and with more rapturous joy they sweep the harps of gold; and ten thousand times ten thousand and thousands of thousands of voices unite to swell the mighty chorus of praise.
"And every creature which is in Heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honor, and glory, and power, be unto Him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb forever and ever." Revelation 5:13.
The great controversy is ended. Sin and sinners are no more. The entire universe is clean. One pulse of harmony and gladness beats through the vast creation. From Him who created all, flow life and light and gladness, throughout the realms of illimitable space. From the minutest atom to the greatest world, all things, animate and inanimate, in their unshadowed beauty and perfect joy, declare that God is love.
EGW GC.
 

Aunty Jane

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Sorry this is so long QT, but there was a lot to address.....I’ll break it up....
The Kingdom of God! What is it? I've been throwing this question around in my mind for some years now. As we know, many of the things Jesus spoke pertain to the Kingdom of God. How is it the understanding of what he meant is so elusive? Are we looking for treasure where there is no treasure?.....and what is this treasure anyway?

These are my thoughts....God's Kingdom consists of a way of thinking and feeling and relating which has the interest of the other at heart. The term (Kingdom of God) is also used to describe process (like a mustard seed...is small but grows big, like leaven buried in flour....affecting everything around it.) It is both present in those whose hearts have been renewed and future .....ultimately it is and will become the absence of anything that diminishes relationship with others and our environment and the presence of everything that pertains to creativity, life and love and service.
The Kingdom of God has been obscured by those who think it is something other than what the scriptures state.

The Kingdom is what the Bible says it is.....

The Kingdom is the expression and exercise of God’s universal sovereignty toward his creatures, or the means or instrumentality used by him for this purpose. (Ps 103:19) The phrase is used particularly for the expression of God’s sovereignty through a royal government headed by his Son, Christ Jesus and those chosen by God to assist him. It is a real “kingdom” that will eliminate all other kingdoms and replace them as the world’s only government. (Daniel 2:44) It will not be the fake “one world government” that will be implemented by satan’s rulers, but it will pretend to be the answer to peace and security in the world. (Luke 21:4-6; 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3)

The element of control and domination is absent....it is not needed where all energies are bent for willing heart felt service (mind, heart, intentions)
As revealed in the initial chapters of Genesis, God’s exercise of his sovereignty toward man in Eden was benevolent and not unduly restrictive. The relationship between God and man called for obedience such as the obedience a son renders to his father.
Man had no lengthy code of laws to fulfill. (compare1 Timothy 1:8-11) God’s requirements were simple and purposeful. Nor is there anything to indicate that Adam was made to feel inhibited by constant, critical supervision of his every action; rather, God’s communication with perfect man seems to have been periodic, according to need. (Genesis ch 1-3)

Jesus is its epitome!; he is the living, breathing witness to God's reality (God's Kingdom) amongst a people whose focus is self; whose desire is instant gratification and power over others, where exploitation of everything on our planet (from the cell to food production) for the purpose of control is standard fare.
I agree that Jesus is a true reflection of his Father in all he said and did. God’s reality was reflected in him as the appointed King of God’s Kingdom. And humans under the control of the god they chose to obey is clearly seen in all they do and in all the pollution that is drowning this planet....physically, morally and spiritually.....the human race could not be more corrupt than it is at present. They have set up their own empires and have been getting more and more corrupt as they gained more control.

The saddest thing is that humans have been tightly controlled especially in these end times as satan’s System has fooled people up to now with the illusion of freedom. Most people who have been raised under a democratic system thought that they had freedom of choice.....but in reality they had nothing but the freedom to ruin their own lives. Democracy will die and be buried along with all the other failed systems of government.....global totalitarianism is all that is left.....a place where no freedom will exist.

We speak of dictators, but no dictator has ever delivered a successful form of government. Where no true freedom exists, no true happiness can be enjoyed. It’s like life in a straight jacket....you can get used to the restrictions but they are never comfortable.
When we look at the juggernaut that is China, and observe the robotic movements of its military along with the absolute control of its citizens and understand that this will soon be what the whole world will look like....it sends shivers down your spine. But this is what the Bible says will happen before the end comes.

The Kingdom of God is the absence of fear; fear in this sense being the fruit of self loathing....of hiding, of inadequacy, of desperation, need and meaninglessness. Conversely, God's Kingdom encompasses the abiding presence of joy and promise.
The Kingdom of God is an agency. What you speak of here is the results of its rulership.
Being “God-fearing” is not the dread of being punished.....but the fear of displeasing someone we love.
God has demonstrated in his word countless instances where his displeasure was felt as a result of his people’s actions and attitudes. They were accountable for breaking his laws because as a nation they had entered into a covenant with Jehovah of their own free will. So we know that God has standards and that he expects them to be upheld by those who claim to be his worshippers. He gave Israel laws to govern their day to day activities, and none were unduly restrictive. IOW God never made laws that had no reason or value. But flawed humans at times transgressed those laws and suffered the penalty. Because of the sanctity of human life, there were more laws pertaining to sexual matters than anything else....and these were the laws hardest to keep. The Ten Commandments outlined the most important aspects.
 

Brakelite

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Sorry this is so long QT, but there was a lot to address.....I’ll break it up....

The Kingdom of God has been obscured by those who think it is something other than what the scriptures state.

The Kingdom is what the Bible says it is.....

The Kingdom is the expression and exercise of God’s universal sovereignty toward his creatures, or the means or instrumentality used by him for this purpose. (Ps 103:19) The phrase is used particularly for the expression of God’s sovereignty through a royal government headed by his Son, Christ Jesus and those chosen by God to assist him. It is a real “kingdom” that will eliminate all other kingdoms and replace them as the world’s only government. (Daniel 2:44) It will not be the fake “one world government” that will be implemented by satan’s rulers, but it will pretend to be the answer to peace and security in the world. (Luke 21:4-6; 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3)


As revealed in the initial chapters of Genesis, God’s exercise of his sovereignty toward man in Eden was benevolent and not unduly restrictive. The relationship between God and man called for obedience such as the obedience a son renders to his father.
Man had no lengthy code of laws to fulfill. (compare1 Timothy 1:8-11) God’s requirements were simple and purposeful. Nor is there anything to indicate that Adam was made to feel inhibited by constant, critical supervision of his every action; rather, God’s communication with perfect man seems to have been periodic, according to need. (Genesis ch 1-3)


I agree that Jesus is a true reflection of his Father in all he said and did. God’s reality was reflected in him as the appointed King of God’s Kingdom. And humans under the control of the god they chose to obey is clearly seen in all they do and in all the pollution that is drowning this planet....physically, morally and spiritually.....the human race could not be more corrupt than it is at present. They have set up their own empires and have been getting more and more corrupt as they gained more control.

The saddest thing is that humans have been tightly controlled especially in these end times as satan’s System has fooled people up to now with the illusion of freedom. Most people who have been raised under a democratic system thought that they had freedom of choice.....but in reality they had nothing but the freedom to ruin their own lives. Democracy will die and be buried along with all the other failed systems of government.....global totalitarianism is all that is left.....a place where no freedom will exist.

We speak of dictators, but no dictator has ever delivered a successful form of government. Where no true freedom exists, no true happiness can be enjoyed. It’s like life in a straight jacket....you can get used to the restrictions but they are never comfortable.
When we look at the juggernaut that is China, and observe the robotic movements of its military along with the absolute control of its citizens and understand that this will soon be what the whole world will look like....it sends shivers down your spine. But this is what the Bible says will happen before the end comes.


The Kingdom of God is an agency. What you speak of here is the results of its rulership.
Being “God-fearing” is not the dread of being punished.....but the fear of displeasing someone we love.
God has demonstrated in his word countless instances where his displeasure was felt as a result of his people’s actions and attitudes. They were accountable for breaking his laws because as a nation they had entered into a covenant with Jehovah of their own free will. So we know that God has standards and that he expects them to be upheld by those who claim to be his worshippers. He gave Israel laws to govern their day to day activities, and none were unduly restrictive. IOW God never made laws that had no reason or value. But flawed humans at times transgressed those laws and suffered the penalty. Because of the sanctity of human life, there were more laws pertaining to sexual matters than anything else....and these were the laws hardest to keep. The Ten Commandments outlined the most important aspects.
Your biblical worldview completely disregards the character of Christ as a reflection of the character of the Father. A perfect reflection, revealing the nature of the kingdom over which they preside. God is not about power and sovereignty. While He is God, King, and sovereign over all His vast creation/universe, His character reveals His willingness to not only give that all up and risk it for the sake of others, but is willing share it with those who are found worthy of the responsibility.
So the kingdom isn't about power. It's about character. The kingdom within you is the submission of the human mind to the mind of Christ. The kingdom within you is the imparting of the principles of that kingdom... Love, self sacrifice, generosity, grace and mercy... To the human heart. Being subjects of that kingdom means having characters in harmony with the laws and principles that given it. And believe it or not, the kingdom of God is such that even God is willing to put Himself up for judgement. There is nothing that Christ or the Father expects of us that they haven't either experienced themselves, or will experience for themselves in the future. That's the kingdom. It has nothing to do with arbitrary rule and regulations, power or rule. That's Satan's MO. That's the way his kingdom functions.
KJV Luke 22:26
26 But ye shall not be so: but he that is greatest among you, let him be as the younger; and he that is chief, as he that doth serve.
 

Aunty Jane

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We often hear we were created to serve God but wouldn't we be surprised if we were created so God could serve us? Why do I ask that?
Because I look, look, look at Jesus.....did I say look? yes, look....why do I look? because in him is answered the mystery hidden for ages....and what do I see? I see our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God.
Well, I guess this is where we diverge. I do not see “our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God”....I see the Creator solving the problem of the abuse of free will by sending his most trusted servant to pay for the sin of Adam that was inherited by his children. The death penalty would eventually remove Adam and his disobedient wife from existence, but not before they filled the first mandate given in Eden....to “become many and fill the earth”. This God allowed them to do, even though their children would be born with the defect of sin. (Romans 5:12-14, 18-19) A rescue mission was already planned (Genesis 3:15).....one that would not only eliminate sin, but would test out each individual as to their willingness to obey their Creator.

What of those who never had the law of God to guide them? Paul explains....in Romans 2:12-16...
“For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.”

This is self explanatory. God judges individuals by what is in their hearts. But if that was all God did, then why would he have Jesus and his disciples out preaching the message of the Kingdom? How do we bring these two thoughts together?

Again I believe that Paul answers...2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...Jesus’ disciples were to be persecuted and hated and God Will exact his vengeance upon those persecutors.....

“This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.”
So Jehovah has retribution in store for those who “do not know God” (because they choose to remain in ignorance John 17:3) and those who “do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus” (because although they claim to know God, they choose not to live up to the teachings of the Christ)...so I see that God will not react kindly to those who wilfully place God and his Christ in a box of their own making, believing that this box contains all they need to know. Those who instruct themselves, have a fool for a teacher.

He is effectually saying by his presence and all he said and did, this is how God is!
I believe this too....I just don’t believe that Jesus is God. I believe that he represented his God in all that he did and said.
John 7:14-18....
14 When the festival was half over, Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. 15 And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?” 16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him who sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.“
Jesus always gave credit to his Father for everything he taught. If he was God, then all that he taught would have been his.

A favourite author puts it like this, 'in Jesus all the accumulated treasure of eternity is poured out in one gift; God gave till he could give no more'

'For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life for God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved' John 3:16-17
God gave what was required to balance the scales of his perfect justice, even at great cost to himself.
It seems as if that scripture in John 3:16 is emphasised only in the first part, but it’s almost as if the second part is invisible.....”whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life”.....
What happens to those not “believing”? The opposite to everlasting life is to “perish”....that is to have one’s life permanently terminated.
God sent his son into the world so that the world “might be” saved...not that it will. The world of mankind is not condemned but those in it who fail to recognise the Christ for who and what is is, will not make it into the Kingdom of God. He is choosing its citizens very carefully, so that when the cleansing of this world takes place, there will be no dissenters or rebels or those who want God to be their own version of him.

an aside.....re God serving us. We have children so we can give them joy. What parent ever said to a new born, now, wipe your own backside, or what parent does not watch in anticipation seeing their child open a gift?
I have no idea where this idea comes into our conversation QT....? Where have I ever suggested such a thing? Jehovah describes himself as a parent for that very reason....parents teach and train their children to wipe their own backsides. And the overindulging of children (as in today’s materialistic world) makes them thankless and demanding, so God gives in due measure and teaches us to do the same with our own children.

The angels were very excited when they visited the shepherds on Bethlehem's hill's; I guess they anticipated appreciation from Earths inhabitants? Their hearts must have been torn when they saw how we treated their Prince.
Since it was already written in scripture that their Prince would be born to give his life, their joy at his entrance into the world would have been based on his mission rather than his suffering. Jesus himself gave his all in the work his Father assigned him to do. Even when he was physically worn out, he felt pity for the people and continued to teach them. (Mark 6:30-34)
When the time came for Jesus to surrender his life, his physical suffering though intense, was actually brief....it all happened within 24 hours. God was not going to allow the devil’s henchmen to prolong his agony. Even to the point of his legs not being broken, as was the custom of the Romans to hasten death after much suffering on that torture stake, Jesus was mercifully already dead, but the men alongside him both had their legs broken. (John 19:32-34)

Jesus’ words to his Father in his anguish....”Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?” indicate Jehovah’s withdrawal to allow his precious son to expire, thereby fulfilling his mission. How hard that must have been for God to witness this torture brought about by his enemies....those who purported to worship him, but who murdered their own Messiah, as they had done to his prophets before.

So we have different ways of reading a scripture it seems.....I rely on the ones I believe that Jesus appointed to “feed” his household in these final days.....(Matthew 24:45) We cannot feed at the hand of anyone else...not even ourselves. It’s not a buffet.....
 
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quietthinker

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Well, I guess this is where we diverge. I do not see “our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God”....I see the Creator solving the problem of the abuse of free will by sending his most trusted servant to pay for the sin of Adam that was inherited by his children. The death penalty would eventually remove Adam and his disobedient wife from existence, but not before they filled the first mandate given in Eden....to “become many and fill the earth”. This God allowed them to do, even though their children would be born with the defect of sin. (Romans 5:12-14, 18-19) A rescue mission was already planned (Genesis 3:15).....one that would not only eliminate sin, but would test out each individual as to their willingness to obey their Creator.

What of those who never had the law of God to guide them? Paul explains....in Romans 2:12-16...
“For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.”

This is self explanatory. God judges individuals by what is in their hearts. But if that was all God did, then why would he have Jesus and his disciples out preaching the message of the Kingdom? How do we bring these two thoughts together?

Again I believe that Paul answers...2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...Jesus’ disciples were to be persecuted and hated and God Will exact his vengeance upon those persecutors.....

“This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.”
So Jehovah has retribution in store for those who “do not know God” (because they choose to remain in ignorance John 17:3) and those who “do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus” (because although they claim to know God, they choose not to live up to the teachings of the Christ)...so I see that God will not react kindly to those who wilfully place God and his Christ in a box of their own making, believing that this box contains all they need to know. Those who instruct themselves, have a fool for a teacher.


I believe this too....I just don’t believe that Jesus is God. I believe that he represented his God in all that he did and said.
John 7:14-18....
14 When the festival was half over, Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. 15 And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?” 16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him who sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.“
Jesus always gave credit to his Father for everything he taught. If he was God, then all that he taught would have been his.


God gave what was required to balance the scales of his perfect justice, even at great cost to himself.
It seems as if that scripture in John 3:16 is emphasised only in the first part, but it’s almost as if the second part is invisible.....”whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life”.....
What happens to those not “believing”? The opposite to everlasting life is to “perish”....that is to have one’s life permanently terminated.
God sent his son into the world so that the world “might be” saved...not that it will. The world of mankind is not condemned but those in it who fail to recognise the Christ for who and what is is, will not make it into the Kingdom of God. He is choosing its citizens very carefully, so that when the cleansing of this world takes place, there will be no dissenters or rebels or those who want God to be their own version of him.


I have no idea where this idea comes into our conversation QT....? Where have I ever suggested such a thing? Jehovah describes himself as a parent for that very reason....parents teach and train their children to wipe their own backsides. And the overindulging of children (as in today’s materialistic world) makes then thankless and demanding, so God gives in due measure and teaches us to do the same with our own children.


Since it was already written in scripture that their Prince would be born to give his life, their joy at his entrance into the world would have been based on his mission rather than his suffering. Jesus himself gave his all in the work his Father assigned him to do. Even when he was physically worn out, he felt pity for the people and continued to teach them. (Mark 6:30-34)
When the time came for Jesus to surrender his life, his physical suffering though intense, was actually brief....it all happened within 24 hours. God was not going to allow the devil’s henchmen to prolong his agony. Even to the point of his legs not being broken, as was the custom of the Romans to hasten death after much suffering on that torture stake, Jesus was mercifully already dead, but the men alongside him both had their legs broken. (John 19:32-34)

Jesus’ words to his Father in his anguish....”Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?” indicate Jehovah’s withdrawal to allow his precious son to expire, thereby fulfilling his mission. How hard that must have been for God to witness this torture brought about by his enemies....those who purported to worship him, but who murdered their own Messiah, as they had done to his prophets before.

So we have different ways of reading a scripture it seems.....I rely on the ones I believe that Jesus appointed to “feed” his household in these final days.....(Matthew 24:45) We cannot feed at the hand of anyone else...not even ourselves. It’s not a buffet.....
I see retribution has the priority in your post AJ and mercy never gets a mention. Is this not the same MO as the world?
 
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quietthinker

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Law in its external form is only necessary when there is a reason for it to be. If no one has ever killed, why make a law that says don't kill"
If adultery does not exist or is not known why have a law prohibiting it? It would be like a law that says nobody is to gouge out eyes. It's irrelevant unless people are going about gouging out eyes.
God's Laws written on the heart embody none other than service to the other. It does not need to be codified for it is internal.....wisdom and discernment are its bedfellows.

Law is only necessary when anarchy has or wants the upper hand. Law is better than anarchy, however, Grace is better than law

Israel was given Laws because they were an unruly bunch. Four hundred years of slavery had them suffering from PTS.....'cross me and I'll kill you' is what they learned from the Pharaohs and practised amongst themselves. God's laws were direction for half a million people who had become fundamentally lawless.

Grace however trumps Law but a certain maturity is required to appreciate its value otherwise it is used as licence......subsequently, Paul in many of his letters takes the tack he does with this matter.

God's Kingdom does not mirror mans values or ways of doing things. God's Kingdom make no sense to the natural man....he in fact is in active opposition to it.
 
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Brakelite

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Well, I guess this is where we diverge. I do not see “our Creator condescending to become a man for the very purpose of revealing the heart of God”....I see the Creator solving the problem of the abuse of free will by sending his most trusted servant to pay for the sin of Adam that was inherited by his children. The death penalty would eventually remove Adam and his disobedient wife from existence, but not before they filled the first mandate given in Eden....to “become many and fill the earth”. This God allowed them to do, even though their children would be born with the defect of sin. (Romans 5:12-14, 18-19) A rescue mission was already planned (Genesis 3:15).....one that would not only eliminate sin, but would test out each individual as to their willingness to obey their Creator.

What of those who never had the law of God to guide them? Paul explains....in Romans 2:12-16...
“For all those who sinned without law will also perish without law; but all those who sinned under law will be judged by law. 13 For the hearers of law are not the ones righteous before God, but the doers of law will be declared righteous. 14 For when people of the nations, who do not have law, do by nature the things of the law, these people, although not having law, are a law to themselves. 15 They are the very ones who demonstrate the matter of the law to be written in their hearts, while their conscience is bearing witness with them, and by their own thoughts they are being accused or even excused. 16 This will take place in the day when God through Christ Jesus judges the secret things of mankind, according to the good news I declare.”

This is self explanatory. God judges individuals by what is in their hearts. But if that was all God did, then why would he have Jesus and his disciples out preaching the message of the Kingdom? How do we bring these two thoughts together?

Again I believe that Paul answers...2 Thessalonians 1:6-10...Jesus’ disciples were to be persecuted and hated and God Will exact his vengeance upon those persecutors.....

“This takes into account that it is righteous on God’s part to repay tribulation to those who make tribulation for you. 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.”
So Jehovah has retribution in store for those who “do not know God” (because they choose to remain in ignorance John 17:3) and those who “do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus” (because although they claim to know God, they choose not to live up to the teachings of the Christ)...so I see that God will not react kindly to those who wilfully place God and his Christ in a box of their own making, believing that this box contains all they need to know. Those who instruct themselves, have a fool for a teacher.


I believe this too....I just don’t believe that Jesus is God. I believe that he represented his God in all that he did and said.
John 7:14-18....
14 When the festival was half over, Jesus went up into the temple and began teaching. 15 And the Jews were astonished, saying: “How does this man have such a knowledge of the Scriptures when he has not studied at the schools?” 16 Jesus, in turn, answered them and said: “What I teach is not mine, but belongs to him who sent me. 17 If anyone desires to do His will, he will know whether the teaching is from God or I speak of my own originality. 18 Whoever speaks of his own originality is seeking his own glory; but whoever seeks the glory of the one who sent him, this one is true and there is no unrighteousness in him.“
Jesus always gave credit to his Father for everything he taught. If he was God, then all that he taught would have been his.


God gave what was required to balance the scales of his perfect justice, even at great cost to himself.
It seems as if that scripture in John 3:16 is emphasised only in the first part, but it’s almost as if the second part is invisible.....”whosoever believes in him shall not perish but have everlasting life”.....
What happens to those not “believing”? The opposite to everlasting life is to “perish”....that is to have one’s life permanently terminated.
God sent his son into the world so that the world “might be” saved...not that it will. The world of mankind is not condemned but those in it who fail to recognise the Christ for who and what is is, will not make it into the Kingdom of God. He is choosing its citizens very carefully, so that when the cleansing of this world takes place, there will be no dissenters or rebels or those who want God to be their own version of him.


I have no idea where this idea comes into our conversation QT....? Where have I ever suggested such a thing? Jehovah describes himself as a parent for that very reason....parents teach and train their children to wipe their own backsides. And the overindulging of children (as in today’s materialistic world) makes then thankless and demanding, so God gives in due measure and teaches us to do the same with our own children.


Since it was already written in scripture that their Prince would be born to give his life, their joy at his entrance into the world would have been based on his mission rather than his suffering. Jesus himself gave his all in the work his Father assigned him to do. Even when he was physically worn out, he felt pity for the people and continued to teach them. (Mark 6:30-34)
When the time came for Jesus to surrender his life, his physical suffering though intense, was actually brief....it all happened within 24 hours. God was not going to allow the devil’s henchmen to prolong his agony. Even to the point of his legs not being broken, as was the custom of the Romans to hasten death after much suffering on that torture stake, Jesus was mercifully already dead, but the men alongside him both had their legs broken. (John 19:32-34)

Jesus’ words to his Father in his anguish....”Father, Father, why have you forsaken me?” indicate Jehovah’s withdrawal to allow his precious son to expire, thereby fulfilling his mission. How hard that must have been for God to witness this torture brought about by his enemies....those who purported to worship him, but who murdered their own Messiah, as they had done to his prophets before.

So we have different ways of reading a scripture it seems.....I rely on the ones I believe that Jesus appointed to “feed” his household in these final days.....(Matthew 24:45) We cannot feed at the hand of anyone else...not even ourselves. It’s not a buffet.....
I think you have missed the essence of the gospel. Christ came to bear the sins of the whole world. Taking upon Himself the burden of guilt, horror, shame, nakedness, and the expectation of eternal destruction, was the cause of death, His wages for taking our transgressions. Which was also why the Father had to turn away. Christ had to perish without hope. Just as we would if we reject Christ.

God sent His Son, his only Son, not a created being who has no power or authority over his own life because he owes all to his Creator, but a Son, having power and authority to lay down His life because it is his own to do with as he would; sent into this sin sick polluted hate filled world, the world of God's bitterest enemies, to give that glorious divine life a ransom for many. Giving something or someone you can create and love is of great value certainly, but giving your own Son brought forth and begotten of your own nature, your only heir, the Prince of glory, God in the person of His Son... That is love. That is sacrifice. Which is why the sacrifice of Abraham with Isaac carries so much poignancy and value. The sacrifice was real. And there was no possibility of replacement. Only begotten Son. Irreplaceable. If Christ had failed, had sinned in either thought or deed, the entire plan of salvation would have been lost and the human race perish. There was no second chance. The tomb of Christ would never have been opened. That's the beauty and the strength of the gospel, and the depth of God's love for you.
 

Curtis

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She celebrates pagan holidays under a thin “Christian” disguise as if God doesn’t know what she is doing or where those celebrations originated. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

There’s so many pagan gods in the world that probably any day that Jesus‘s birthday is celebrated would be a pagan day to someone, somewhere. But it doesn’t matter what day it used to be, what matters is we’re honoring the Lord Jesus Christ on Easter - it’s resurrection day of Jesus we’re honoring - Christmas is the birthday of Jesus, and he’s not a pagan god - so it doesn’t matter what the day used to be.

Romans 14 says not to judge anyone by what day they keep, or don’t keep, as long as the day honors God,
 

Curtis

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Yes, that was one of the four different failed prophecies of the watchtower, when they predicted the return of Jesus.

1914 was one of the failed prophecies, And after the fourth one or so, to save face the watch tower invented the invisible Jesus doctrine, that claims Jesus did return on schedule but he’s invisible, that he rose an invisible spirit creature.

Before that last failed prophecy, they did not teach that.

Maranatha
 

n2thelight

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Genesis records Satan's first rebellion, and Revelation records Satan's last rebellion. Then in Genesis we find where sin enters into the world in this earth age, and Revelation reveals it's final doom at the return of our Lord Jesus Christ.

The Book of Genesis is a key to understanding the rest of the Scriptures. When Jesus talks about the planting of the seed, and the offspring of that seed [children]; we will see in Genesis the meaning of this and find out just what Jesus was teaching us through His parables. In fact we will see in Matthew 13:35 where Jesus is teaching in parables the secrets of the prophets of the Old Testament. They were secrets hidden and not understood by mankind from the foundation of the world [Kosmos; in the Greek}.

The name "Genesis" is not even a Hebrew word, but a Greek rendition out of the Septuagint, which is part of the Torah. The original Hebrew name of this book was "The Beginnings".

Those that stand and use this Word of God as the basis for placing the age of the earth at 6000 years, just don't understand the original Hebrew text. It is easy to document that this earth is many millions of years old. However, the traces of Adamic man only can be traced to about that 6000 year period of time. Now lets go the the Scriptures and document some of these statements.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6.

Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.

Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"

Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.

Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world."

God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"

Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"

Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"

In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth.

God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the first thirty seven chapters of the Book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advice by those around Job, God spoke to Job.

Job 38:1, 2; "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

Job had been tested to the point of losing His entire family, all his property, and had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet, he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job.

Job 38:3; Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me."

God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out to Job how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them.

Then for the rest of Job 38 and continuing in Job 39 we can see the same wisdom we read about in Proverbs 8. God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, Yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary. In this love that He demonstrated for His children, He made it possible that we could approach Him as His child for our every need.

This humbled Job before God, as it should to each of us, and He fell apart [Job 40]. God once again told Job to stand "like a man, and give answer to Him".

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form" is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]


Excerpt from The Companion Bible Appendix 8:

The word "without form" (Hebrew tohu) is used of a subsequent event which, we know not how long after the Creation, befell the primitive creation of Genesis 1:1. It occurs in Genesis 1:2. Deuteronomy 32:10. 1Samuel 12:21 (twice). Job 6:18; 12:24; 26:7. Psalm 107:40. Isaiah 24:10; 29:21; 34:11; 40:17, 23; 41:29; 44:9; 45:18, 19; 49:4; 59:4. Jeremiah 4:23.

The Hebrew bohu, rendered "void", means desolate, and occurs in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23. The two words together occur in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23.

end Companion Bible excerpt
"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude.

If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13
 

JohnPaul

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There’s so many pagan gods in the world that probably any day that Jesus‘s birthday is celebrated would be a pagan day to someone, somewhere. But it doesn’t matter what day it used to be, what matters is we’re honoring the Lord Jesus Christ on Easter - it’s resurrection day of Jesus we’re honoring - Christmas is the birthday of Jesus, and he’s not a pagan god - so it doesn’t matter what the day used to be.

Romans 14 says not to judge anyone by what day they keep, or don’t keep, as long as the day honors God,
I don't believe this to be true if you celebrate a pagan holiday and say you are celebrating Christ, how is that not sin?

Did not Constantine incorporate a lot of the pagan holidays into Christian holidays, such as Saturnalia the worship of Saturn=Satan and Easter the fertility Goddess, when the true word is suppose to be Passover, which is when Christ was Crucified and resurrected?

Pardon me if I don't have everything correct, I only recently started reading up on such Holidays being incorporated into Christianity by Constantine the Roman Emperor to appease the pagan worshipers into Christianity, hence the Yule log and Christmas trees and Christmas Wreaths, Mistletoe and so on.
 
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Cooper

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Sorry this is so long QT, but there was a lot to address.....I’ll break it up....

The Kingdom of God has been obscured by those who think it is something other than what the scriptures state.

The Kingdom is what the Bible says it is.....

The Kingdom is the expression and exercise of God’s universal sovereignty toward his creatures, or the means or instrumentality used by him for this purpose. (Ps 103:19) The phrase is used particularly for the expression of God’s sovereignty through a royal government headed by his Son, Christ Jesus and those chosen by God to assist him. It is a real “kingdom” that will eliminate all other kingdoms and replace them as the world’s only government. (Daniel 2:44) It will not be the fake “one world government” that will be implemented by satan’s rulers, but it will pretend to be the answer to peace and security in the world. (Luke 21:4-6; 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3)


As revealed in the initial chapters of Genesis, God’s exercise of his sovereignty toward man in Eden was benevolent and not unduly restrictive. The relationship between God and man called for obedience such as the obedience a son renders to his father.
Man had no lengthy code of laws to fulfill. (compare1 Timothy 1:8-11) God’s requirements were simple and purposeful. Nor is there anything to indicate that Adam was made to feel inhibited by constant, critical supervision of his every action; rather, God’s communication with perfect man seems to have been periodic, according to need. (Genesis ch 1-3)


I agree that Jesus is a true reflection of his Father in all he said and did. God’s reality was reflected in him as the appointed King of God’s Kingdom. And humans under the control of the god they chose to obey is clearly seen in all they do and in all the pollution that is drowning this planet....physically, morally and spiritually.....the human race could not be more corrupt than it is at present. They have set up their own empires and have been getting more and more corrupt as they gained more control.

The saddest thing is that humans have been tightly controlled especially in these end times as satan’s System has fooled people up to now with the illusion of freedom. Most people who have been raised under a democratic system thought that they had freedom of choice.....but in reality they had nothing but the freedom to ruin their own lives. Democracy will die and be buried along with all the other failed systems of government.....global totalitarianism is all that is left.....a place where no freedom will exist.

We speak of dictators, but no dictator has ever delivered a successful form of government. Where no true freedom exists, no true happiness can be enjoyed. It’s like life in a straight jacket....you can get used to the restrictions but they are never comfortable.
When we look at the juggernaut that is China, and observe the robotic movements of its military along with the absolute control of its citizens and understand that this will soon be what the whole world will look like....it sends shivers down your spine. But this is what the Bible says will happen before the end comes.


The Kingdom of God is an agency. What you speak of here is the results of its rulership.
Being “God-fearing” is not the dread of being punished.....but the fear of displeasing someone we love.
God has demonstrated in his word countless instances where his displeasure was felt as a result of his people’s actions and attitudes. They were accountable for breaking his laws because as a nation they had entered into a covenant with Jehovah of their own free will. So we know that God has standards and that he expects them to be upheld by those who claim to be his worshippers. He gave Israel laws to govern their day to day activities, and none were unduly restrictive. IOW God never made laws that had no reason or value. But flawed humans at times transgressed those laws and suffered the penalty. Because of the sanctity of human life, there were more laws pertaining to sexual matters than anything else....and these were the laws hardest to keep. The Ten Commandments outlined the most important aspects.

"Universal sovereignty" for only a 144,000. Come on.
 

Cooper

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I don't believe this to be true if you celebrate a pagan holiday and say you are celebrating Christ, how is that not sin?

Did not Constantine incorporate a lot of the pagan holidays into Christian holidays, such as Saturnalia the worship of Saturn=Satan and Easter the fertility Goddess, when the true word is suppose to be Passover, which is when Christ was Crucified and resurrected?

Pardon me if I don't have everything correct, I only recently started reading up on such Holidays being incorporated into Christianity by Constantine the Roman Emperor to appease the pagan worshipers into Christianity, hence the Yule log and Christmas trees and Christmas Wreaths, Mistletoe and so on.
They celebrate Christ, not paganism.

Anybody with an ounce of sense would run from Taze Russellism as fast as ever they could.
 
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farouk

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@lforrest



So then, you are saying those who are inquiring about the doctrine of the Trinity, though perhaps not embracing it, but are open to consider it, are welcome to post, but that those who are settled in their view, and who consistently state that the doctrine of the Trinity is false, are not?

Much love!
@marks There is indeed overwhelming Biblical evidence for God in Three Persons.