A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Kermos]

Prov 8:25 disagrees with you. Brought forth with labor pains= created direct-first and last. The firstborn of all creation.

"Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth" (Proverbs 8:25).

The phrase "brought forth" carries the meaning of an unveiling as in royalty being presented.

The phrase "brought forth" is translated from chuwl (Stong's 2342 chuwl biblehub.com/hebrew/2342.htm) with these definitions (in order):

1. dance
2. twist, writhe
3. whirl

with various subsections for the definitions.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" is among the definitions for "brought forth" - specifically in association with Proverbs 8:24 and Proverbs 8:25.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" carries the meaning of an unveiling as in royalty being presented.

The Wisdom of God was waited for anxiously by the creation IS THE CONTEXT in Proverbs 8 and expressed explicitly in Proverbs 8:25.

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book of Revelation as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

 

[Kermos]

It's clear that you don't take the Scriptures seriously. If you did you would engage the passages. Jesus said the Father is the only true God, Paul said, 'to us there is one God, the Father. They both made a distinction between Jesus and the Father. You can ignore that and go on believing in logical contradictions and things not found in Scripture if you'd like. Since we don't have the same source of authority, the Scriptures, there's no point in further discussion.

It's clear that you don't take the Scriptures seriously.

You miserably fail to address the provided scriptural quotations with citations in your response.

You fail to provide scriptural quotations with citations as support for your ungodly, humanistic promulgation.

Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Jesus does not stop at Exodus with His words recorded in John 8:58, but He goes back to Genesis by mentioning Abraham, and He goes back eternally because He establishes His existence as perpetual prior to Abraham.

You think there are two gods based upon that which you writing of "If by, Jesus is God, you mean He is deity, I agree. If you mean He is the one true God, then I disagree." as recorded in this chain of quoted posts in post #284. Deity means God.

You disagree with the Word of God because the Word of God states "I am YHWH, and there is no other; Besides Me there is no God" (Isaiah 45:5).

 

[Rich R]

34,000 trinity religions= a house divided will not stand.

Geez, it wasn't that long ago that the count was about 20,000. Progress???

 

[Kermos]

If you knew the Scriptures you wouldn't need to ask. But since you asked.

Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me. (Jn. 8:42 KJV)

You do not understand English. The post to which you replied contains no question in it.

Now respecting John 8:42, Lord Jesus says "If God were your Father, you would love Me, for I proceeded forth and have come from God, for I have not even come on My own initiative, but He sent Me".

John 8:42 contains NO indication that Jesus was "made" nor that He was "created".

John 8:42 contains indication that the person of Jesus came to Earth from the person of the Father in Heaven.

John 8:42 contains indication that Jesus came from God which is consistent with the fact that Jesus was with God in the beginning (John 1:1).

Now, a mere 16 verses after John 8:42, Jesus declares Himself to be the everlasting God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

The scripture you provided fails to support your wicked position that Jesus is not God.

 

[Kermos]

Revelation 1:18 is not Jesus speaking, it is God:

(8) “I am the Alpha and the Omega, ” says the Lord God, “who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.”

Revelation 1:8 is Jesus speaking because Jesus identifies Himself as "the Alpha and the Omega" in Revelation 21:6 when He who sits on "the throne of God and of the Lamb" (Revelation 22:1) says "I am the Alpha and the Omega" (Revelation 21:6).

Furthermore, we find He who sits on the throne saying "Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, the beginning and the end.” (Revelation 22:12-13), and Jesus is the One who is coming because He says He is "'coming on the clouds" (Matthew 24:30).

NOW, BACK TO JESUS USING "THE ALPHA AND THE OMEGA" TO DESCRIBE HIMSELF IN REVELATION 1:8.

"'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'” (Revelation 1:8) is Jesus speaking!

John identifies Jesus as the orator of Revelation 1:8 by immediately preceding Revelation 1:8 with "to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever, truly" in Revelation 1:7 - the Him is Jesus.

So, here is the Revelation 1:7-8 passage uninterrupted by verse numbers:

"to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever. Truly. 'I am the Alpha and the Omega,' says the Lord God, 'who is and who was and who is to come, the Almighty.'”

The Him is Jesus.

The Alpha and the Omega is Jesus.

The Lord God is Jesus.

The One who is and who was and who is to come is Jesus.

The Almighty is Jesus.

 

[Aunty Jane]

Geez, it wasn't that long ago that the count was about 20,000. Progress???

And the one thing that most in Christendom do not take into account is that “few” are on the road to life, whilst “many” are on the road to destruction. (Matthew 7:13-14) So it’s not the “many” who are right....it’s the “few”. That is compelling reason to see the majority of those who accept Christendom’s doctrines as being on the wrong road. None of them fit Paul’s description of a true Christian. (1 Corinthians 1:10)
Jesus’ disciples in the first century were a united but hated minority. He told his followers that they could expect the same in an ongoing way. (John 15:18-21)

In his prophetic parable of the “sheep and the goats” Jesus says that the ‘goats’ have failed to support his “brothers” (his elect) whilst they were still on earth. These ones have not only failed to recognise the ‘sheep’, but they have failed to recognise themselves as ‘goats’.

The parable of the “wheat and the weeds” also reflects this as both were to “grow together” until the “harvest”......the “weeds” were counterfeit “Christians” that Jesus said we’re “sown” or planted by the devil......the “reapers” are ready to harvest the crop, to dispose of the weeds of fake Christianity who cannot acknowledge the truth, but who will soon hear Jesus’ shocking words to them....”I never knew you, get away from me you workers of lawlessness”. (Matthew 7:21-23)

.....World events are indicating the nearness of the greatest tribulation in the history of mankind. (Matthew 24:21) It’s time. Where will we find ourselves?

 

[Kermos]

You are confusing me with another poster. I have never claimed that Jesus will not reign forever.

Per your post to which I had quoted in my reply post #420, you appear to me that yoy were trying to defend the position that Jesus will cease being King in the Kingdom of God, and that you are basing such on 1 Corinthians 15:24-28.

 

[Keiw]

The following Word of God (qouted and citations) proves that Jesus and the Father are One God.

"The Father and I are One" (John 10:30).

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (John 5:18)

The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:31-33)

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

The Son of Man says "I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

The equality of the Son of God with God remains intact!!!

Daniel 12:1 And during that time, Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time and during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book of life.
Michael rides the white horse( righteous war) at the war in heaven, Jesus is shown riding the horse at Har-mageddon. Its the same ride it begins at Rev 6 and ends at Rev 20 conclusion----1Cor 15:24-28 occurs. Jesus subjects himself because he is Michael.

 

[Keiw]

The following Word of God (qouted and citations) proves that Jesus and the Father are One God.

"The Father and I are One" (John 10:30).

"For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God." (John 5:18)

The Jews picked up stones again to stone Him. Jesus answered them, “I showed you many good works from the Father; for which of them are you stoning Me?” The Jews answered Him, “For a good work we do not stone You, but for blasphemy; and because You, being a man, make Yourself out to be God.” (John 10:31-33)

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

The Son of Man says "I go to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" (John 14:28).

The equality of the Son of God with God remains intact!!!

The Israelite spiritual leaders never said a truth about Jesus. Hearts of hatred do not speak truth on matters. Jesus never said he was God--Like he said-he showed them many good works from the Father--He always gave credit to his God and Father. They twisted it in their hatred.

 

[Keiw]

"Before the mountains were settled, Before the hills I was brought forth" (Proverbs 8:25).

The phrase "brought forth" carries the meaning of an unveiling as in royalty being presented.

The phrase "brought forth" is translated from chuwl (Stong's 2342 chuwl biblehub.com/hebrew/2342.htm) with these definitions (in order):

1. dance
2. twist, writhe
3. whirl

with various subsections for the definitions.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" is among the definitions for "brought forth" - specifically in association with Proverbs 8:24 and Proverbs 8:25.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" carries the meaning of an unveiling as in royalty being presented.

The Wisdom of God was waited for anxiously by the creation IS THE CONTEXT in Proverbs 8 and expressed explicitly in Proverbs 8:25.

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book of Revelation as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

Brought forth with labor pains= created. The firstborn of all creation.

 

[Keiw]

Geez, it wasn't that long ago that the count was about 20,000. Progress???

Someone sees wrong things in the prior one and starts a new one, but never have fixed it because their translations are filled with errors. So they all teach false truths and cannot do this-John 4:22-24

 

[Kermos]

It has been explained to you that there is no i am that i am from Hebrew to english-- This is Fact.

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book of Revelation as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

THE TRUTH (JOHN 14:6) IS THAT JESUS SAYS "I AM" AS RECORDED BY THE APOSTLE JOHN IN:

"Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58).

Your thoughts crumble, and you have no scriptural response to the post to which you replied, so you attempt to deceive.

Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

 

[Kermos]

The real Jesus always pointed everything to his Father. Last line Lords prayer in some translations--The kingdom, power and glory all belong to the Father. Only the Fathers will gets done. Because the Father is the only true God as Jesus teaches at John 17:3

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

Respecting Matthew 6:13 and John 17:3, you are confusing Jesus in His capacity as the Son of Man with Jesus in His capacity as equal with God.

 

[Kermos]

I explained it to you. Those in darkness cannot see. 2Cor 4:4-- Rev 6 Peace was taken from the earth, means world war not a single war. C.T. Russell was correct on that matter. By Holy spirit.

Your explanation is not of God because you add 1914 AD to Revelation 6.

So just like Charles Taze Russell, you, Keiw, you are adding to The Book of Revelation and/or you are subtracting from The Book of Revelation.

The year 1914 is not specified in the Book of Revelation; therefore, the following applies to you as a person who adds to the Book of Revelation:

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this book: if anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues which are written in this book; and if anyone takes away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God will take away his part from the tree of life and from the holy city, which are written in this book" (Revelation 22:18-19).

 

[Kermos]

The kingdom has no end--the kingship does.

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book of Revelation as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

As the post to which you replied shows scripturally, Jesus, the Son of Man, subjects His reign to God

As the post to which you replied shows scripturally, Jesus, equal with God, reigns forever (Luke 1:33).

Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

 

[Kermos]

God always was and always will be. Jesus is Gods son.

Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

The Truth (John 14:6) is:

To avoid confusion here is the verse:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1)

First, your small "g" claim for the final word in the verse results in you having two gods because you claim Jesus is another god which clearly violates YHWH God's commandment "You shall have no other gods before Me" (Exodus 20:3).

Second, your proposition of "God was with God" cannot be linguistically expanded to "this God was with that God" without you breaking from the accurate translation, and both occurrences of God in "God was with God" represents the same God, so your "more than 1 God" claim crumbles.

Truly, Jesus is God with us (Matthew 1:23). Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

1Cor 2:16--One cannot know Jehovahs mind, yet one can know Jesus mind--proving Jesus is not God. He is Gods son.

Paul wrote "there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5), so the Man Jesus is with God for we born of God (John 3:3-8).

Paul mentioned "Man" just like the next paragraph.

Jesus Christ is truly Man (Luke 1:26-33) - the Son of Man, and Jesus Christ is truly God (Luke 1:34-35, John 8:58, John 20:28, John 5:18, John 10:30-31) - the Son of God.

"But when He, the Spirit of Truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come" says Lord Jesus (John 16:13).

Therefore we born of God are guided into "all the truth" by the Holy Spirit, and we are blessed to know God!

Some reminders.

The New World Translation fails to match the Greek, so the NWT is corrupt, and the NWT contributes to your corruption because you feed on the NWT.

Behold your evil lie for you wrote "Theone whom he created all other things through."; on the other hand, the Apostle John wrote "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3).

The plurality of "Us" matches precisely with the plurality of "Elohim" ("God"); therefore, the "Us" is representative of the person of the Father and the person of the Word of God and the person of the Holy Spirit of God.

Incorporating John's message of "All things" (John 1:3) with "Let Us make man" (Genesis 1:26) proves that the "Us" absolutely demonstrates that Jesus is YHWH God because the "Us" is "God" in Genesis 1:26.

Your WICKED LIE that the "Us" in Genesis 1:26 represents created creatures is tantamount to you denying Jesus thus your deception results in everlasting punishment (Matthew 25:46) - whether you believe in everlasting punishment or not.

 

[Kermos]

Daniel 12:1 And during that time, Michael will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people. And there will certainly occur a time of distress such as has not been made to occur since there came to be a nation until that time and during that time your people will escape, every one who is found written down in the book of life.
Michael rides the white horse( righteous war) at the war in heaven, Jesus is shown riding the horse at Har-mageddon. Its the same ride it begins at Rev 6 and ends at Rev 20 conclusion----1Cor 15:24-28 occurs. Jesus subjects himself because he is Michael.

You persist in being vague. I am not going to guess about the verses in your evil delusion.

Daniel 12:1 states NOT that the angel Michael is the Messiah. Lord Jesus mentions angels in "He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other" (Matthew 24:31), and the angel Michael "stands guard" (Daniel 12:1) is NOT the same as Jesus' "coming on the clouds" (Matthew 24:30). MICHAEL IS NOT JESUS.

You have been exposed a liar about the Book of Revelation when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

Recently, you evilly conveyed that Michael and Jesus are the same on the white horse in the Book of Revelation, yet you supply no specific book, chapter, and verse citations. MICHAEL IS NOT JESUS.

Paul wrote "the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first" (1 Thessalonians 4:16), and he indicates that

• the person of Jesus doing "descend from heaven with a shout".
• anorher person of the archangel doing "with the voice of the archangel".

A "shout" indicates an audible excited sound, yet a "voice" indicates legible speech/language.

You LIE in your writing when you convey that the archangel is Jesus. MICHAEL IS NOT JESUS.

1 Corinthians 15:24-28 is scripturally and Spiritually explained in the recent post #428 in this thread.

Your thoughts that Jesus is Michael fails because Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

 

[Kermos]

Brought forth with labor pains= created. The firstborn of all creation.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" is among the definitions for "brought forth" - specifically in association with Proverbs 8:24 and Proverbs 8:25.

The phrase "waited for anxiously" carries the meaning of an unveiling as in royalty being presented.

The Wisdom of God was waited for anxiously by the creation IS THE CONTEXT in Proverbs 8 and expressed explicitly in Proverbs 8:25.

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible when you wickedly added 1914 AD into chapter six of the Book of Revelation as shown in post #427 in this thread; therefore, you are an unreliable source.

 

[Kermos]

The Israelite spiritual leaders never said a truth about Jesus. Hearts of hatred do not speak truth on matters. Jesus never said he was God--Like he said-he showed them many good works from the Father--He always gave credit to his God and Father. They twisted it in their hatred.

The fact is that the Apostle John is the person who proclaimed that Jesus made Himself equal with God (John 5:18). John wrote in such a way that John expresses John's belief that Jesus is equal with God (John 5:18).

Not only that, but the religious leaders knew scripture, so based on that they recognized that Jesus declared the Christ's equality with God (John 5:18, John 10:30), yet the religious leaders disbelieved Jesus' words that Jesus is God - JUST LIKE YOU DISBELIEVE.

Technically, you are the person following the Israeli religious leaders.