A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Pierac]

God does not approve sin. It's kind of axiomatic. No, God was not surprised. And nor was He the original sinner, causing sin in people.

Much love!

Cool... Then explain what Paul was saying...

Rom 8:20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it, in hope

Who made the serpent Mark?

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more crafty than any other beast of the field that the LORD God had made.

Job 26:13 By his spirit he hath garnished the heavens; his hand hath formed the crooked serpent.

Isa 54:16 Behold, I have created the smith [Satan] that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.

Mark... Was it Evil for man to crucify Jesus the Son of God? Or was it planned by God before the creation of the earth? Before and any of these players were born?

Act 4:27 for truly in this city there were gathered together against your holy servant Jesus, whom you annointed, both Herod and Pontius Pilate, along with the Gentiles and the peoples of Israel, to do whatever your hand and your plan had predestined to take place.

Mark.... Satan is God's plaything!!!

Read a little paper from Ray Smith
SATAN ALWAYS SHOWS UP WHERE HE IS NEEDED

Satan entered Eden as "that Old Serpent [Satan]" and deceived Eve to eat of the forbidden fruit. Satan didn’t sneak into the garden against God’s will. He performed a needful task with our first parents. God knew what Satan was going to do to Adam and Eve. God did not try to prevent it. It is all part of God’s master plan.

Just as God has provided food for mankind, He has also provided food for Satan. And just what kind of food does Satan dine on? Satan dines on mankind.

"And the Lord God said unto the serpent, Because you have done this, you are cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon your belly shall you go, and DUST SHALL YOU EAT all the days of your life" (Gen. 3:14).

This is, of course a parable. That "serpent" in the garden was none other than

"…that OLD SERPENT, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceives the whole world…" (Rev. 12:9).

And this is the same serpent that "deceived" Eve.

Man is the "dust of the earth" upon which Satan dines: "The first man [Adam] is of the earth, earthy [dust]…" (I Cor. 15:47). Man IS ‘dust.’

"…for DUST you are, and unto DUST shall you return" (Gen. 3:19).

When God told the serpent devil Satan that he would eat DUST, He was telling him that he would eat MAN (adam). And this is exactly what Peter tells us in his epistle:

"Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walks about, seeking whom he may devour [Gk: swallow down/eat]" (I Pet. 5:8).

Satan dines and thrives on the meat of the "carnal [Greek: sarx; flesh] mind [which] is enmity [hostility/hatred] against God: for it is not subject to the [spiritual] law of God, neither indeed can be" (Rom. 8:7).

Satan does not seek to devour everyone for food; only those who are carnally [fleshly] minded represent a great steak dinner to him.

Satan even had King David for dinner:

"And SATAN stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel" (I Chron. 21:1).

But always remember, Satan never operates beyond his God-given parameters as we will see in the case of Job.

God gave Satan charge over Job, his body, and all his possessions, to try him severely before God:

"And the Lord said unto SATAN, Behold, he [Job] is in your hand; but save his life" (Job 2:6).

It was GOD’S idea to severely try Job, not Satan’s. But Satan took strict orders from God as to just how he could try Job. Satan got permission from God at each and every step of this severe trying of Job. Do we think God does it differently today? Do we think Satan now has "free reign"- "free will?" Do we think that God "changes?" Nonsense: "For I am the LORD, I change not…" (Mal. 3:6).

David prayed for God to use Satan in judging his enemies:

"Set you a wicked man over him: and let SATAN stand at his right hand" (Psalm 109:6).

Are not these activities of Satan necessary? Does God use Satan for no good purpose? Then why can’t men see that God also CREATED Satan for these very purposes?

Satan is constantly finding fault with God’s Chosen ones:

"And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the Lord, and SATAN standing at his right hand to resist [accuse] him" (Zech. 3:1).

Remember, Satan can do NOTHING without God’s approval. When God completed His creating, He said

"And God saw EVERY THING that He had made [including Satan, the Adversary], and, behold, it was VERY GOOD…" (Gen. 1:31).

Satan was not only necessary, but he was, in fact, PERFECT for the job that God created him to fulfill.

Mark... when I call you a child.... It's not an insult... It's where you are in your understanding
Paul

 

[Pierac]

God's Name has never been removed from Scripture - Exodus 3:14-16

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them:
in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Matthew 28:19

Sorry, too lazy to pull up my own data so just googled it! Pretty much EVERY bible scholar of all religions admit this verse was added by men!!!

Matthew 28:19 is quoted by Christians as evidence for the Trinity. However it is an interpolation into the Text. Respected Bible scholars say that the formula was an insertion, and that it originally was “Go and make disciples of all nations in my name.” Matthew 28:19 is the only verse in the entire New Testament with the “Trinity” formula.” All other verses point to baptism being performed in the Name of Jesus alone. Take for example Apostle Peter in Acts. He has always baptised in the name of Jesus. See the following verses:

Acts 2:38 – Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:16 – For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48 – So Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked him to stay there for several days.

If Matthew 28:19 is true, genuine and Jesus did command his disciples to baptize ”in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Why would Peter go against Jesus command and Baptize only in His name? Well the answer lies in the Text. The formula of the “Father Son and Holy Spirit” is not part of the original text of Matthew. How do we know it is not part of Text? Well let us turn to the respected Scholars.

Eusebius (260 – 339 CE) was a Roman Christian historian and is regarded as a well learned Christian scholar. He became the Bishop of Caesarea in 314 CE. He quotes many verses in his works, and Matthew 28:19 is one of them. 17 times in his works prior to Nicaea, Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 as “Go and make disciples of all nations in my name” without mentioning the Trinity baptism formula.

1. George H. Gilbert Quotes Mr Conybeare and says the following on Matthew 28:19:

“There is important external evidence against the existence of this formula in manuscripts current before the time of Eusebius, and various recent writers have urge that the practice of baptism in Acts and Epistles of Paul is utterly incompatible with the view that Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (E.g., Martineau, The Seat of Authority in religion, page 515; Percy Gardener, Exploratio Evangilica, page 445; Sabatier, Religions of Authority and Religion of Spirit, page 52; Harnack, History of Dogma Volume 1, 79, note).”

George H. Gilbert then says:

“It is obvious that the location of this word between ‘Father’ and ‘Holy Spirit’ is virtually a claim that the Son stands on the same level with them. The position takes him up, as it were, into the very center of the Deity. But to this claim the words of Jesus in our oldest sources stand opposed. Unique and divine as is their claim regarding the character of the Master a claim like that of the Baptismal formula, but in the clearest, most unambiguous terms assert what is diametrically opposed to the implication of that passage. They assert manhood; they deny attributes of deity (e.g., omniscience and absolute goodness). Therefore it is impossible to hold that the Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels can have spoken the words of the Baptismal formula” [1]

2. James Moffatt’s NT Translation in his footnote (page 64) says the following words:

“….it may be that this (Trinitarian) formula, so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Catholic) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community, It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing “in the name of Jesus, cf. Acts 1:5….”

David, Please don't quote false scripture written by men and added to your translation many years after the Greek and other text were complete... It is poor scholarship on your part! In fact pretty much shows how uninformed you are about the issues at hand! I mean, really... Did you really not know this or did you choose to ignore the facts? Not sure which is worst?

Please study harder,
Paul

 

[marks]

Mark... when I call you a child.... It's not an insult... It's where you are in your understanding
Paul

No, it's your condescending attitude that you let loose when you are disagreed with. It's your ad hominem response instead of a meaningful response. It's emptiness - vanity - because you feel you need more momentum on your side and somehow this will impart that. It's making sure everyone knows how you view me compared to how you view yourself.

If you want discussion, make it about what the Bible says, not your negative opinions of your minimal perceptions of me. Which may simply be a cognitive bias to begin with.

And no, God is not a liar, and is not unrighteous, unholy. He did not create man with the desire that man would sin and in sinning, die, and in death, to be condemned. Though He certainly knew it would happen, and certainly knew what He was going to do for man, just the same, God is love, not approving of evil.

God is love:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 KJV
4) Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5) Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6) Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7) Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

God, loving, did not create man for the purpose of sin, so that he would live in iniquity. God created man to have communion with God. God told Adam that he was not to eat from the forbidden tree, and God is not a liar, secretly knowing that His words are false, wanting Adam to eat, relying on Adam eating, God's perfect plan.

Not at all!! God is holy, righteous, love, and therefore not wicked, and not a sinner Himself, such an accusation against God is totally contrary to all that is in the Bible.

Better a millstone by tied around one's neck then to stumble one of these little ones to sin!! Yet you accuse God Himself of stumbling all the world into sin! Offenses must come, but woe to the one by whom they come!

God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Sorry, too lazy to pull up my own data so just googled it! Pretty much EVERY bible scholar of all religions admit this verse was added by men!!!

Matthew 28:19 is quoted by Christians as evidence for the Trinity. However it is an interpolation into the Text. Respected Bible scholars say that the formula was an insertion, and that it originally was “Go and make disciples of all nations in my name.” Matthew 28:19 is the only verse in the entire New Testament with the “Trinity” formula.” All other verses point to baptism being performed in the Name of Jesus alone. Take for example Apostle Peter in Acts. He has always baptised in the name of Jesus. See the following verses:

Acts 2:38 – Then Peter said to them, “Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Acts 8:16 – For as yet He had fallen upon none of them. They had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

Acts 10:48 – So Peter ordered them to be baptized in the name of Jesus the Messiah. Then they asked him to stay there for several days.

If Matthew 28:19 is true, genuine and Jesus did command his disciples to baptize ”in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit.” Why would Peter go against Jesus command and Baptize only in His name? Well the answer lies in the Text. The formula of the “Father Son and Holy Spirit” is not part of the original text of Matthew. How do we know it is not part of Text? Well let us turn to the respected Scholars.

Eusebius (260 – 339 CE) was a Roman Christian historian and is regarded as a well learned Christian scholar. He became the Bishop of Caesarea in 314 CE. He quotes many verses in his works, and Matthew 28:19 is one of them. 17 times in his works prior to Nicaea, Eusebius quotes Matthew 28:19 as “Go and make disciples of all nations in my name” without mentioning the Trinity baptism formula.

1. George H. Gilbert Quotes Mr Conybeare and says the following on Matthew 28:19:

“There is important external evidence against the existence of this formula in manuscripts current before the time of Eusebius, and various recent writers have urge that the practice of baptism in Acts and Epistles of Paul is utterly incompatible with the view that Jesus commanded his disciples to baptize into the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit (E.g., Martineau, The Seat of Authority in religion, page 515; Percy Gardener, Exploratio Evangilica, page 445; Sabatier, Religions of Authority and Religion of Spirit, page 52; Harnack, History of Dogma Volume 1, 79, note).”

George H. Gilbert then says:

“It is obvious that the location of this word between ‘Father’ and ‘Holy Spirit’ is virtually a claim that the Son stands on the same level with them. The position takes him up, as it were, into the very center of the Deity. But to this claim the words of Jesus in our oldest sources stand opposed. Unique and divine as is their claim regarding the character of the Master a claim like that of the Baptismal formula, but in the clearest, most unambiguous terms assert what is diametrically opposed to the implication of that passage. They assert manhood; they deny attributes of deity (e.g., omniscience and absolute goodness). Therefore it is impossible to hold that the Jesus of the Synoptic Gospels can have spoken the words of the Baptismal formula” [1]

2. James Moffatt’s NT Translation in his footnote (page 64) says the following words:

“….it may be that this (Trinitarian) formula, so far as the fullness of its expression is concerned, is a reflection of the (Catholic) liturgical usage established later in the primitive (Catholic) community, It will be remembered that Acts speaks of baptizing “in the name of Jesus, cf. Acts 1:5….”

David, Please don't quote false scripture written by men and added to your translation many years after the Greek and other text were complete... It is poor scholarship on your part! In fact pretty much shows how uninformed you are about the issues at hand! I mean, really... Did you really not know this or did you choose to ignore the facts? Not sure which is worst?

Please study harder,
Paul

Bible scholars - that's funny - makes me laugh everytime i hear it.

You do not know the Word Scholar who I know.

YES, you need to humble yourself before the LORD that HE may cleanse your heart and give you His Spirit.

The 'jehovah' you follow is a false god.

The Yaweh/Elohim/Adonai is found from Genesis to Revelation and HE is the First and Last = the Savior.
Read about Him in Genesis, Exodus, Isaiah, the Gospel of John and Acts and Revelation = the FIRST and LAST = there is no other Savior.

 

[Scott Downey]

Posted just like a little spiritual child who sits and soaks in your church chair... with no input what so ever from you.... your only allowed what to be told but never allowed to teach... Thus your Lack of ability to response to my Ecc 3:11 post... with all the different sayings that do not agree... Mark, you can run to you pastor and ask for a response... which you will not recieve or seek for yourself!

I'm trying to help you, but your too worried about your feelings... How do you think the money exchangers felt when Jesus entered the temple..
Pretty much like you... Whipped!
Paul

So then, do you worship Jesus Christ?

 

[Keiw]

Right, but for some, what they think are facts are not really facts at all. That's the point.

Grace and peace to you.[/QUOTE

i know 100% they are fact.

 

[Keiw]

God's Name has never been removed from Scripture - Exodus 3:14-16

God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM = I WILL BE WHO I WILL BE = This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ” Elohim/YHWH(Plural) also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The Elohe(PLURAL) , the Elohim/YHWH of your fathers—
#1 Elohim/YHWH of Abraham, #2 Elohim/YHWH of Isaac, #3 Elohim/YHWH of Jacob—has sent me to you.’
This is My Name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.

Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them:
in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit
Matthew 28:19

I just told you, the Hebrews who understand their language better than any trinitarian says i am that i am is not in the OT.
Elohim doesnt translate to YHWH-- you are being mislead--look those facts up for yourself.
100% fact-- the tetragramoton was in nearly 6800 spots in the OT = YHWH-- every spot men replaced it with titles-GOD or LORD all capitols--its fact. They had no right to remove that name that God inspired to be there because he wants it there. Then they turned around and condemned the translators who had enough love for God to put his name back. They condemned the same translators who as well put it in the NT. Back in the 300,s Jerome told the Pope that the name belongs in the NT, he wouldnt allow it. Something wrong with that picture.

 

[David in NJ]

I just told you, the Hebrews who understand their language better than any trinitarian says i am that i am is not in the OT.
Elohim doesnt translate to YHWH-- you are being mislead--look those facts up for yourself.
100% fact-- the tetragramoton was in nearly 6800 spots in the OT = YHWH-- every spot men replaced it with titles-GOD or LORD all capitols--its fact. They had no right to remove that name that God inspired to be there because he wants it there. Then they turned around and condemned the translators who had enough love for God to put his name back. They condemned the same translators who as well put it in the NT. Back in the 300,s Jerome told the Pope that the name belongs in the NT, he wouldnt allow it. Something wrong with that picture.

God's Name has never left the Scripture even in the changing of YHWH to Elohim or God.

Can you grasp this or no?

 

[Kermos]

I will pray that Jehovah opens your heart to truth and facts. Your translations are filled with errors, there is 0 doubt about that.

According to your assertion, you cannot have an accurate translation of the Bible. The Watchtower Society's New World Translation has a myriad of human-induced translational deceptions, and this fact can and has been proven using techniques mentioned below.

In reality, we have many ancient manuscripts of the Bible available for examination and cross referencing to determine accuracy of scribal duplication efforts.

For example, the Codex Sinaiticus dates to about 350 AD, and the facsimile is available online at Codex Sinaiticus - Home .

We have Greek manuscripts that predate the Roman Catholic Church.

The checks and balances for the source material of the Greek for the Bible results in accuracy.

We have accurate Greek manuscripts that result in accurate translations into English - but not always such as the intentionally corrupt New World Translation Bible.

Because God has preserved the Word of God, the Bible contains Truth (John 14:6).

You do not know who YHWH is - and this is clearly evidenced via scripture in the post to which you replied.

By God's grace for God's glory Jesus, being YHWH God, opened my heart to Himself more than a decade ago.


The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Kermos]

This, what you say, is indeed the Scripture, Genesis to Revelation Truth.

Question: What is the Name of God and where did HE declare it for "all generations - forever"?

God's beautiful and glorious memorial Name to all generations forever is the Name that the Word of God reveals:

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).

Hallelujah and Amen!!!

 

[David in NJ]

God's beautiful and glorious memorial Name to all generations forever is the Name that the Word of God reveals:

God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM"; and He said, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'" God, furthermore, said to Moses, "Thus you shall say to the sons of Israel, 'The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, has sent me to you.' This is My name forever, and this is My memorial-name to all generations." (Exodus 3:14-15).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).

Hallelujah and Amen!!!

AMEN AMEN AMEN

i recently had to lovingly rebuke a Brother who started a thread titled "God's name is not in the Bible".

Now just dwell on that error and how it is a complete lie.

 

[Pierac]

No, it's your condescending attitude that you let loose when you are disagreed with. It's your ad hominem response instead of a meaningful response. It's emptiness - vanity - because you feel you need more momentum on your side and somehow this will impart that. It's making sure everyone knows how you view me compared to how you view yourself.

If you want discussion, make it about what the Bible says, not your negative opinions of your minimal perceptions of me. Which may simply be a cognitive bias to begin with.

And no, God is not a liar, and is not unrighteous, unholy. He did not create man with the desire that man would sin and in sinning, die, and in death, to be condemned. Though He certainly knew it would happen, and certainly knew what He was going to do for man, just the same, God is love, not approving of evil.

God is love:

1 Corinthians 13:4-8 KJV
4) Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5) Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6) Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7) Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8) Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.

God, loving, did not create man for the purpose of sin, so that he would live in iniquity. God created man to have communion with God. God told Adam that he was not to eat from the forbidden tree, and God is not a liar, secretly knowing that His words are false, wanting Adam to eat, relying on Adam eating, God's perfect plan.

Not at all!! God is holy, righteous, love, and therefore not wicked, and not a sinner Himself, such an accusation against God is totally contrary to all that is in the Bible.

Better a millstone by tied around one's neck then to stumble one of these little ones to sin!! Yet you accuse God Himself of stumbling all the world into sin! Offenses must come, but woe to the one by whom they come!

God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin.

Much love!

Humm? I never said that God was not holy, righteous nor love! You came to that conclusion all on your own! Yet... We both agree that is incorrect! Yet scriptures teaches what scripture teaches! Mark.... God does not need us/you to justify His actions... You saw what I saw... but felt the need to protect God from Man's judgements of what is right or wrong! Think about this.... You don't get to decide what's right or wrong.... Only God does!

As to God not being Tempted.... That's something we can both Believe!!!

Yet Jesus was Tempted.... SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY???
Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Again... calling you a Child is not... a condescending attitude! It's showing you how you contradict your own beliefs as per above... As you say... "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" all the while claiming Jesus is GOD yet somehow being Tempted by Satan... God's creation!!!

I have told you all... I cannot make the blind to see... But many know something's wrong even just for a brief moment... then Satan comes...

Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them...

Satan came and removed the knowledge/idea that Jesus was Tempted by Satan... Just so you could post against your own belief that "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" Your own words!

Hopefully, This can help you see what you look like through my eyes... A spiritual child!

Captain Obvious,
PAUL

 

[marks]

Humm? I never said that God was not holy, righteous nor love!

No, you didn't say those words, however, in that you make Him out to be dishonest, then that, to me, is incompatible with holiness, righteousness, and love.

Hopefully, This can help you see what you look like through my eyes... A spiritual child!

Captain Obvious,
PAUL

No, what I see is the display of a condescending attitude.

OK, no need to keep repeating this.

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Humm? I never said that God was not holy, righteous nor love! You came to that conclusion all on your own! Yet... We both agree that is incorrect! Yet scriptures teaches what scripture teaches! Mark.... God does not need us/you to justify His actions... You saw what I saw... but felt the need to protect God from Man's judgements of what is right or wrong! Think about this.... You don't get to decide what's right or wrong.... Only God does!

As to God not being Tempted.... That's something we can both Believe!!!

Yet Jesus was Tempted.... SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY???
Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Again... calling you a Child is not... a condescending attitude! It's showing you how you contradict your own beliefs as per above... As you say... "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" all the while claiming Jesus is GOD yet somehow being Tempted by Satan... God's creation!!!

I have told you all... I cannot make the blind to see... But many know something's wrong even just for a brief moment... then Satan comes...

Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them...

Satan came and removed the knowledge/idea that Jesus was Tempted by Satan... Just so you could post against your own belief that "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" Your own words!

Hopefully, This can help you see what you look like through my eyes... A spiritual chi

Humm? I never said that God was not holy, righteous nor love! You came to that conclusion all on your own! Yet... We both agree that is incorrect! Yet scriptures teaches what scripture teaches! Mark.... God does not need us/you to justify His actions... You saw what I saw... but felt the need to protect God from Man's judgements of what is right or wrong! Think about this.... You don't get to decide what's right or wrong.... Only God does!

As to God not being Tempted.... That's something we can both Believe!!!

Yet Jesus was Tempted.... SO WHAT DOES THAT SAY???
Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led up by the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted by the devil.

Again... calling you a Child is not... a condescending attitude! It's showing you how you contradict your own beliefs as per above... As you say... "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" all the while claiming Jesus is GOD yet somehow being Tempted by Satan... God's creation!!!

I have told you all... I cannot make the blind to see... But many know something's wrong even just for a brief moment... then Satan comes...

Mar 4:15 "These are the ones who are beside the road where the word is sown; and when they hear, immediately Satan comes and takes away the word which has been sown in them...

Satan came and removed the knowledge/idea that Jesus was Tempted by Satan... Just so you could post against your own belief that "God is neither tempted by sin nor does He tempt others to sin" Your own words!

Hopefully, This can help you see what you look like through my eyes... A spiritual child!

Captain Obvious,
PAUL

ld!

Captain Obvious,
PAUL

Do you believe Jesus is God's creation???

 

[Pierac]

Do you believe Jesus is God's creation???

Of course.... Jesus is God's second Adam.... God's chosen one... listen to HIM!!!

Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

But You don't listen to him.... Jesus says He is a Man chosen of God... Yet you call Jesus a Liar and say he's His own God

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one
God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, He is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.

David... will you admit that Jesus has a God if Jesus Himself said so???

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

If John teaches so....

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

If Paul teaches so...

Col 1:3 " We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "

No, your stuck in your traditions of men! As to admit that Jesus has a God... is to admit that Jesus is not God! You can't do that as it's not given to you to believe... You will come to see in time...but in your proper order...

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Peace,
Paul

 

[Pierac]

No, you didn't say those words, however, in that you make Him out to be dishonest, then that, to me, is incompatible with holiness, righteousness, and love.



No, what I see is the display of a condescending attitude.

OK, no need to keep repeating this.

Much love!

Look... Your the one who said that Jesus is God! Then said God can not be tempted by evil!

I only showed you Jesus being tempted of Satan... Thus Jesus can not be God according to your own statement... Because Jesus was tempted by Satan. Your the one who doesn't understand your own beliefs... AS I just pointed it out... thus your trying to put a condesending attitude on me for making you look STUPID by using your own words/beliefs!

You should be thanking me!!!
Your welcome
Paul

 

[marks]

Look... Your the one who said that Jesus is God! Then said God can not be tempted by evil!

I only showed you Jesus being tempted of Satan... Thus Jesus can not be God according to your own statement... Because Jesus was tempted by Satan. Your the one who doesn't understand your own beliefs... AS I just pointed it out... thus your trying to put a condesending attitude on me for making you look STUPID by using your own words/beliefs!

You should be thanking me!!!
Your welcome
Paul

The devil may tempt you, but if there is nothing in you to be drawn towards the sin, you are not tempted. Do you see?

Claiming you are making me look stupid is just more of your condescension.

Do you realize that God is the God of all flesh, therefore, when Jesus took on flesh, He took on all that went with it?

Perhaps you are able to give a reasonable answer to a question. No one who does not accept the deity of Jesus has been able to answer. I predict you will engage in more personal response - ad hominem - rather than answer this question, but hey, I'd love to be surprised!

First read this passage,

Philippians 2:5-11 KJV
5) Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
6) Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
7) But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
8) And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Now, take particular note where God says here,

took upon him the form of a servant
he humbled himself
became obedient unto death

Here is my question. What was Jesus before He did those things?

He "took on the form of a servant". What was He before taking on the form of a servant? Was He LORD?

He humbled Himself. What was He before that? Glorious?

He became obedient. What was He before? Sovereign?

Much love!

 

[David in NJ]

Of course.... Jesus is God's second Adam.... God's chosen one... listen to HIM!!!

Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

But You don't listen to him.... Jesus says He is a Man chosen of God... Yet you call Jesus a Liar and say he's His own God

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one
God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, He is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.

David... will you admit that Jesus has a God if Jesus Himself said so???

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

If John teaches so....

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

If Paul teaches so...

Col 1:3 " We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "

No, your stuck in your traditions of men! As to admit that Jesus has a God... is to admit that Jesus is not God! You can't do that as it's not given to you to believe... You will come to see in time...but in your proper order...

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Peace,
Paul

Paul, you need the mind of Christ and of the Prophetic words spoken/written of His Holy Prophets and Apostles = Genesis - Isaiah Peter, Paul and John.

START HERE: John ch1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

You do not understand the Prophetic Word from Genesis thru Isaiah, the Gospel of John and the words of Christ and Revelation.

 

[David in NJ]

Of course.... Jesus is God's second Adam.... God's chosen one... listen to HIM!!!

Luk 9:35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying, "This is My Son, My Chosen One; listen to Him!"

But You don't listen to him.... Jesus says He is a Man chosen of God... Yet you call Jesus a Liar and say he's His own God

(John 8:40) "But as it is, you are seeking to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth, which I heard from God; this Abraham did not do. and the apostles call him "a man" (Acts 2: 22; 1 Tim. 2:5). Act 2:22 "Men of Israel, listen to these words: Jesus the Nazarene, a man attested to you by God with miracles and wonders and signs which God performed through Him in your midst, just as you yourselves know-- 1Ti 2:5 For there is one
God, and one mediator also between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, He is constantly contrasted with and distinguished from God, his Father.

David... will you admit that Jesus has a God if Jesus Himself said so???

Joh 20:17 Jesus *said to her, "Stop clinging to Me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to My brethren and say to them, 'I ascend to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

If John teaches so....

Rev 1:1 The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave Him

If Paul teaches so...

Col 1:3 " We always thank God, the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, when we pray for you, "

No, your stuck in your traditions of men! As to admit that Jesus has a God... is to admit that Jesus is not God! You can't do that as it's not given to you to believe... You will come to see in time...but in your proper order...

1Co 15:23 But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits, after that those who are Christ's at His coming, 24 then comes the end, when He hands over the kingdom to the God and Father, when He has abolished all rule and all authority and power.

Peace,
Paul

For anyone to truly know who Christ is they first must be Born-Again by the Spirit of God.

They also must pray for the Spirit of Truth whom the world cannot receive.

The Spirit of Truth is the Holy Spirit and HE will only speak Truth and guide us into Truth.

The LORD Jesus says: I am the Way the Truth and the Life, no man comes to the Father but thru ME."

The Apostle John beheld the miracles done by Christ,watched Him suffer and die on the Cross, witnessed His resurrection from the dead and His Ascension into Heaven as well as seeing His Glory, the Glory HE had with the Father before the creation of all things which HE Himself created.

The Apostle John says: "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. Through Him all things were made, and without Him nothing was made that has been made."

This is where you need to start from = TRUTH
For if you do not believe the TRUTH then you do not know Christ.

 

[Kermos]

Elohim is not a name, just like 'servant' and 'father' are not names - elohim is the word 'god' in English. "The LORD" is God's name - it's just a bad translation that has replaced God's name with a title. The name in the original Hebrew text is YHVH.

In your contrivance to try and make a trinity out of it you've replaced God with elohim three times, but why didn't you replace the other word God in that sentence with elohim and have four elohims? As for making three out of “Let’s make man in our image, after our likeness" (Genesis 1:26), you really must be desparate to try and find Biblical support for a trinity!

You have been exposed as a liar about the Bible, and here are a few posts exposing your public deception:

Your mouth and fingertips reveal the treasure of your heart demoting Jesus to a mere man by way of your illegitimate linguistics (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #635 with post #636 in this thread) - you (1) YOU disassociate the act of the Holy Spirit of God in Luke 1:34-35, (2) YOU deny Jesus' equality with God makes Jesus God as witnessed by the Apostle John (John 5:18), and (3) YOU lie about the Apostle Thomas calling Jesus God because truthfully the Apostle John recorded that "Thomas answered and said to Him" with the Him being Jesus "My Lord and my God!" (John 20:28)!

You foolishly deny the context that Lord Jesus establishes the focus of "who God is" in the conversation recorded in John 8:31-5i at the outset (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #609 in this thread) - you quote the passage's conversation about "who God is" which contains a climactic conclusion then you proceeded to lie about the selfsame passage in your claim that the passage is not about "who God is".

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH (Revelation 1:8).