A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Kermos]

@Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr @Rich R @Pierac @DavidB @MatthewG @tigger 2 @jaybird @NayborBear @Wrangler @XFire @APAK

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" equates to the Father being God and the Son being God just as the Word of God clearly Spiritually reveals.

Lord Jesus says "No one is good except God alone" (Mark 4:18).

Immediately after Jesus says "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30), the very next thing He says is "I showed you many good works from the Father" (John 10:31).

See that God is good alone, and see that good in Jesus as recorded in John 10:31.

Moreover, the Jews response to Jesus' "I and the Father are One" (John 10:30) is reminiscent of "For this reason therefore the Jews were seeking all the more to kill Him, because He not only was breaking the Sabbath, but also was calling God His own Father, making Himself equal with God" (John 5:18).

The Apostle John expressed his very own observations and belief that the Son of God is equal to God according to John's linguistic construction of the sentence (John 5:18); moreover, no one is equal to God except for God and there is only One True God (Deuteronomy 6:4); therefore, Jesus is God.

 

[Wrangler]

The "Equality of the Father and the Son" equates to the Father being God and the Son being God just as the Word of God clearly Spiritually reveals.

Again the missing 3rd person, which shows the passion for the trinity is the man-is-god thesis.

Forgive me if I don’t take your word on the equality between a man and his Creator, God, when Jesus himself said God is greater, knows more, tells him everything to say and everything to do.

 

[APAK]

Again the missing 3rd person, which shows the passion for the trinity is the man-is-god thesis.

Forgive me if I don’t take your word on the equality between a man and his Creator, God, when Jesus himself said God is greater, knows more, tells him everything to say and everything to do.

I see we have that same teacher in the house again. This time offering a new class in the 'Make it work' series: 'Interpreting scripture the Trinity way.'

 

[Wrangler]

I see we have that same teacher in the house again. This time offering a new class in the 'Make it work' series: 'Interpreting scripture the Trinity way.'

It’s a bit like reading Dr Seuss. He is in. He is out. He is up. He is down. He is 1. He is 3. He is dead. He is alive. All at the same time and place. You just can’t understand - but true believers do.

 

[APAK]

It’s a bit like reading Dr Seuss. He is in. He is out. He is up. He is down. He is 1. He is 3. He is dead. He is alive. All at the same time and place. You just can’t understand - but true believers do.

Dr. Seuss, the 3 in 1 experience...what's it like to be 3 in 1?...well it can give you a headache just thinking about....and one of the 3 is usually AWOL...he comes and goes.....he flies around and appears with the other 2 when it is convenient or needed....lol

Yes it is a sad joke...

 

[Kermos]

No confusion exist. Only because of man does that confusion exist. Again read how and when and what parts of revelation were complete and you will see rev 1.1 and rwv 3 14 and yes many more were never modified and adopted exactly as it is today.

Why is there a conflict with before Abraham was I AM. Again rev 3.14

Are you too like the RCC and going to kill tens of thousands cause you think people should believe the trinity.
Are the word Jesus spoke a lie?? He can be deity and still have a dad and a God.

Now why is man telling God and Jesus what they are.

KjV. Stephen saw what. You can cut it ten ways to Sunday but the word are still unchanging.


Then read extensive info on why and how thr trinity doctrine came about. Tertullian never postulated a bizarre non logical bs of the trinity
I to believe that christ is deity. Ut not everlasting to everlasting.

Again the question. When does a puppy becomes a dog.

Isaiah 45.12 is the following that Jehova is the creator and just above that he has a maker. The God of Heaven and earth.

Your thoughts are ungodly and confused - even in your first sentence for it is written "All of them are put to shame and confounded; the makers of idols go in confusion together" (Isaiah 45:16).

See that confusion exists, and you atr steeped in confusion.

You have demonstrated your purpose misfires here, as shown in:

In a bout of disbelief, you preach that Jesus is not everlasting in direct rejection of Christ's saying "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM" (John 8:58) (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1343 in this thread), yet a Christian does not reject Christ's sayings.

in another instance

Truly, the Maker revealed in John 1:3 is the same Maker revealed in Isaiah 45:11-12, thus Jesus the Maker is "YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and" mankind's "Maker" (Isaiah 45:11)! Praise be to the Holy One of Israel!!! (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1389 in this thread), yet in your heart, you hold to the wicked thoughts that Jesus was made.

in another instance

You wickedly add your words into the passages of John 14:6 and Isaiah 45:11 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1443 in this thread) because the word in the passages attributes glory to Jesus yet you deduct the glory even by the evil claim of yours that Jesus was made.

Your heart is a wickedly confused and unreliable source.

The Truth (John 14:6) is that Jesus is God for the ever living Jesus proclaims this Truth "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was born, I AM" (John 8:58), so according to the Christ, Lord Jesus existed in eternity past which means He is uncreated thus He proclaims that He is YHWH God for there is NO other that exists in eternity past (Isaiah 45:5).

Immanuel (Matthew 1:23 "God with us"), Jesus, is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us (Revelation 1:8).

 

[Wrangler]

Yes it is a sad joke.

And for what? To violate the 1C, deprive God of all the glory, to downplay the accomplishment of the man Jesus, our lord who showed us the way, who had to die so we could live?

A pastor recently used emotional manipulation, saying I am not respecting Jesus’ identity AS IF the Sh’ma commands us to respect a polytheist, 3-is-1 God. Jesus’ identity is explicit in Scripture; the Son of God. Only God the Father is explicitly in Scripture.

No, no, no. Trinitarians supporters argue; it is not 3 gods but 3-in-1 AS IF there is any difference. In Scripture, there is no God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. The absence of such evidence should mean something.

Such is the power of indoctrination.

 

[APAK]

And for what? To violate the 1C, deprive God of all the glory, to downplay the accomplishment of the man Jesus, our lord who showed us the way, who had to die so we could live?

A pastor recently used emotional manipulation, saying I am not respecting Jesus’ identity AS IF the Sh’ma commands us to respect a polytheist, 3-is-1 God. Jesus’ identity is explicit in Scripture; the Son of God. Only God the Father is explicitly in Scripture.

No, no, no. Trinitarians supporters argue; it is not 3 gods but 3-in-1 AS IF there is any difference. In Scripture, there is no God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. The absence of such evidence should mean something.

Such is the power of indoctrination.

When you get right down to it, it is long-term life-time brain washing as I depicted on that religions cult- thread of yours with a quickly made chart I generated up. Trinitarians do not do scripture study and interpretation very well, for good reasons as you know. I can see how it can be very confusing to them when you have to think on what and who is the subject in a verse of scripture. Is it the 1st person god personality, the 2nd or the 3rd or only 2 of them or all 3....

 

[Rich R]

You demonstrated a staggering level of linguistic errors, omissions, and/or misrepresentations as shown in the following links

You wickedly promote mere humans to being God while you evilly demote Jesus from being God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #848 in this thread), and you deceptively try to confuse Jesus' special place as Immanuel, God with us (Matthew 1:23, Isaiah 7:14, Isaiah 9:6).

In your heart, you subtract the Apostle Thomas saying "my God" to Lord Jesus (John 20:28) in the context of Thomas' usage (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #870 in this thread), so you deny Apostolic testimony.

You desperately try to change the Word of God into "that they also may be one with us" in John 17:21-22, so you are making yourself out to be greater than the Word of God (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1003 in this thread), so you nullify the Word of God, Jesus (John 1:1, John 1:14) in your heart by exalting your thoughts above God's thoughts (Isaiah 55:8-9).

You foolishly claim the Greek "en" can mean "with", yet "en" truly means "in", and your foolishness targets your thoughts that Jesus does not mean "one" when Jesus says "one" both in John 10:30 and John 17:21-22 (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1213 in this thread), so you are under the delusion that. Jesus is not one with the Father despite Jesus truthfully declaring of the Father and Himself "We are One" (John 17:22). You are fixated on the temporal instead of the eternal.

By your writing, your illogic is illuminated, your linguistic foolishness abounds, and you expose your fleshly natural state of being (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1269 in this thread); consequently, (1) you deny the personification references of the Father as well as the Christ in scripture, (2) you deny the true meaning of "one" as shown near the pie example, (3) you deny Jesus' sayings of "We are One" (John 17:22) by adulterating His words with your limiting words from your heart, (4) you deny the Spiritual Truth (John 14:6) by imposing your temporal treasure on Jesus, (5) you change the language of Ephesians 1:4, and (6) you deny Jesus is God despite the testimony of scripture indicating that Jesus is God.

In a bout of linguistic foolishness, you preach that "I will be" is correct for Exodus 3:14 instead of "I AM" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1280 in this thread); therefore, you convey that your heart's treasure is that God does change in direct contradiction to the Word of God saying "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6).

(1)You adulterate the Word of God recorded in Jeremiah 18:6-10 into the word of Rich R "if that nation against which I have spoken turns from its evil, I change" (2) in order to adulterate the Word of God "I, YHWH, do not change" (Malachi 3:6) into the word of Rich R "I, Jehovah, do not change except I will become for Israel" (3) which you extend to adulterate the Word of God "I AM Who I AM" (Exodus 3:14) into the word of Rich R "I will be who I will be" (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1331 in this thread), so you call the Word of God a LIE, in fact, your word leads you to not know who God is.

You show a repeated disrespect and dishonor and disregard for the God Most High by misspelling the sacred and Holy Name of God, YHWH, (as shown in Truth [John 14:6] post #1287 in this thread) in at least 3 different posts; therefore, you publicly show just how little God means to you as well as your failure to understand God

You have a false god that you created based on your thoughts that you named Jesus, yet your false god is not the Jesus revealed in the Word of God.

At least give me credit about being right about your zeal for the Lord.

Maybe someday you will consider the plethora of verses that make it quite impossible for Jesus to be God along with the few you quote that, at best, are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God. Romans 10:2 comes to mind.

 

[Wrangler]

At least give me credit about being right about your zeal for the Lord.

Maybe someday you will consider the plethora of verses that make it quite impossible for Jesus to be God along with the few you quote that, at best, are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God. Romans 10:2 comes to mind.

Case in point.

THE APOSTLE PAUL INDISPUTABLY CALLS JESUS “THE GREAT GOD”

Indisputably? Paul is referring to 2 beings.
1. Our Savior Christ, named Yeshua.

and

wait for it

2. our great God, named YHWH.

 

[Rich R]

Case in point.



Indisputably? Paul is referring to 2 beings.
1. Our Savior Christ, named Yeshua.

and

wait for it

2. our great God, named YHWH.

They also like John 8:58 a lot.

John 8:58,

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
​

Of course, they make no attempt to square that with

Matt 1:18,

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
​

Greek philosophy, most notably Plato, and Islam certainly say that people existed before they were born, but that's not how the Bible takes it.

So much of what is taught as Orthodox doctrine does come from Plato. Nobody seems to care what the ancient Jews thought about things. Sad, because God gave the scriptures to Israel, not Plato!

 

[PinSeeker]

Maybe someday you will consider the plethora of verses that make it quite impossible for Jesus to be God...

There are none, and they do quite the opposite, along with a plethora of others that say and show Jesus to be God in the flesh. I guess this is where it will remain, but, well, "maybe someday" right back at you, Rich.

along with the few you quote that, at best, are ambiguous and don't say outright that Jesus is God. Romans 10:2 comes to mind.

They also like John 8:58 a lot.

John 8:58,

Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
​

Of course, they make no attempt to square that with

Matt 1:18,

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.​

​

Well, there's nothing really to "square" here, Rich. Except to acknowledge that Jesus was fully God and fully man... of God and of man. Which is what qualifies Him to be ~ as I'm sure has been said here ~ mediator between the Father and man.

So much of what is taught as Orthodox doctrine does come from Plato.

Actually, it's the other way around, but also that what did eventually come from Plato were his own personal spins on Scripture and orthodox Judeo-Christianity. Some of what he had learned remained intact, but so much of it he spun according to his own "wisdom" and "understanding." Islam, on the other hand, took Scripture and turned it upside down to suit themselves, beginning with Hagar and Ishmael. I would like to know what you think in Orthodox doctrine "comes from Plato." That could be quite interesting.

Nobody seems to care what the ancient Jews thought about things.

You mean like the ancient Jews who wanted to stone Jesus for blasphemy when He said what He said in John 8:58? Oh, but I guess you might say they were "bad Jews," right? Aren't the shoes you're referring to in your query here on your own feet? They are at least in this instance...

God gave the scriptures to Israel, not Plato!

Absolutely, He did. And we still have them and always will. The grass withers, and the flowers fade, but the Word of our God stands forever. Thanks be to God (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).

Grace and peace to you, Rich,

 

[Taken]

How do you read ‘For us, there is one God, the Father?’ 1 COR 8:6. It is hard to construct a stronger anti-trinitarian statement.

Isa.41
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa.48
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

WHO is God WITH ALSO AM He?

 

[Wrangler]

Of course, they make no attempt to square that with

Matt 1:18,

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph

That’s when they insert words into Scripture, such as, physically born or born of flesh.

 

[farouk]

Isa.41
[4] Who hath wrought and done it, calling the generations from the beginning? I the LORD, the first, and with the last; I am he.

Isa.48
[12] Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also am the last.

WHO is God WITH ALSO AM He?

@Taken Links in with the Alpha and Omega verses in Revelation, also....

 

[Wrangler]

WHO is God WITH ALSO AM He?

Yea, just ignore the plain words of 1 COR 8:6 that only the Father is God.

 

[Wrangler]

@Taken Links in with the Alpha and Omega verses in Revelation, also....

So said the prophet Isaiah. That is what prophets do, speak for God. It does not make them God.

 

[Taken]

@Taken Links in with the Alpha and Omega verses in Revelation, also....

Correct.
Jesus IS the Father, as foretold...”In that day, you will know”.
Some figure it out, without SEEING.
Omnipresent. Father in Heaven Holy. Son goes to Footstool Humbled, mingles with the unholy.

 

[farouk]

Correct.
Jesus IS the Father, as foretold...”In that day, you will know”.
Some figure it out, without SEEING.
Omnipresent. Father in Heaven Holy. Son goes to Footstool Humbled, mingles with the unholy.

@Taken I do believe Father, Son and Holy Spirit are distinct Persons in the Godhead; there is a lot of Scripture for this.

Where the Son is called 'the everlasting Father' in Isaiah 9, the Hebrew there has the 'Father of eternity', which is a figure of speech showing the Lord Jesus' eternal nature.

 

[Wrangler]

Correct.
Jesus IS the Father

LOL.

In the other thread on gun rights there is the constant demand to limit the analysis to the NT. No reference to Jesus being the Father. Rather, he prays to the Father and submits to his will and says and does what the Father wills.

Funny how trinitarians can’t keep their own argument straight.