A Curious Question For Non-Trinitarians

[Kermos]

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of the God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Behold, @Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr @Rich R @Pierac @DavidB @MatthewG @tigger 2 @jaybird @NayborBear @Wrangler @XFire @APAK, conclusive Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God!

 

[ChristisGod]

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of the God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Behold, @Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr @Rich R @Pierac @DavidB @MatthewG @tigger 2 @jaybird @NayborBear @Wrangler @XFire @APAK, conclusive Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God!

And Paul proclaims one must confess Jesus is YHWH/God ( LORD )to be saved in Romans 10:9-13.

 

[Keiw]

The Apostle Paul calls Jesus "the great God" (τοῦ μεγάλου Θεοῦ) with "looking for the blessed hope and the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Christ Jesus" (Titus 2:13).

The Apostle Peter calls Jesus "the God" (τοῦ Θεοῦ) with "Simon Peter, a bond-servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have received a faith of the same kind as ours, by the righteousness of the God and Savior, Jesus Christ" (2 Peter 1:1).

The Apostle Thomas calls Jesus "my God" wirh "My Lord and my God" (John 20:28).

The Apostle Matthew attests that Jesus is "God with us" Immanuel (Matthew 1:23) thus Jesus is truly Almighty God, YHWH, with us the children of God (Revelation 1:8).

The Apostle John calls Jesus "the Word" and "God" with "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God" (John 1:1).

Behold, @Aunty Jane @Keiw @Butch5 @keithr @Rich R @Pierac @DavidB @MatthewG @tigger 2 @jaybird @NayborBear @Wrangler @XFire @APAK, conclusive Apostolic testimony that Jesus is God!

You will find out the religion that came out of Rome never had Jesus, satan originated it. Their own translating-your translations prove they are false religion, yet you wont believe they mistranslated. Only because you outright refuse to believe Jesus over them--Who do you serve? John 20:17, Rev 3:12, John 17:3- BELIEVE JESUS all his real followers do.

 

[keithr]

we can't discount Hebrews 13:8, that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And to not understand that as forever past to forever future ~ eternity past to eternity future ~ is just pure obstinance.

It looks to me to be pure obstinance to insist that "yesterday" means "eternity past"! That's not what the word means, in English or the Greek word chthes. The Greek word ctthes is only used three times, and it is always translated as 'yesterday' The other two uses are:

Acts 7:28) Do you want to kill me, as you killed the Egyptian yesterday?’
John 4:52) So he inquired of them the hour when he began to get better. They said therefore to him, “Yesterday at the seventh hour, the fever left him.”​

Clearly in those verses it was not referring to "eternity past", and neither is it in Hebrews 13:8. In this verse Paul was just repeating what he'd already said concerning Jesus now being immortal:

Hebrews 7:24) But he, because he lives forever, has his priesthood unchangeable.
Hebrews 1:12) ... but you are the same. Your years will not fail.”​

 

[keithr]

keithr said:

You are assuming that if Jesus is not God then God must have given up His glory and given it to Jesus, which is obviously not correct!​

I'm not assuming that at all. God giving up His glory? Perish the thought.

So since you misrepresent my logic ~ what I have said ~ your statement here is dead in the water... non sequitur.

You had typed:

So, if Jesus is not God, that would necessarily mean that God did give His glory to another, and that would either a) make Him a liar, or b) establish that He has a very poor memory... both of which are surely not the case.

Okay, so if you were not assuming that God gave up His glory, you were nevertheless saying that God gave glory to Jesus. But to be in harmony with Isaiah 42:8, where God says that He doesn't give His glory to anyone else, then surely the only conclusion is that the glory that He gave Jesus was not God's own glory - that Jesus' glory must be different, and less glorious.

Stop right there; you cannot give something someone always had.

So are you calling Jesus a liar? Jesus said, to God, John 17:24 (WEB):

(24) Father, I desire that they also whom you have given me be with me where I am, that they may see my glory, which you have given me, for you loved me before the foundation of the world.​

 

[keithr]

And Paul proclaims one must confess Jesus is YHWH/God ( LORD )to be saved in Romans 10:9-13.

No he doesn't! Romans 10:9 (WEB):

(9) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

Paul says we must confess Jesus is our Lord, not that he is God. He says that God raised Jesus from the dead, so obviously Jesus is not God.

As Paul also said, Romans 1:7, "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ". Our heavenly Father is not our Lord Jesus, and Jesus is not God! Jesus is God's son:

Romans 1:4) who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,

 

[ChristisGod]

No he doesn't! Romans 10:9 (WEB):

(9) that if you will confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.​

Paul says we must confess Jesus is our Lord, not that he is God. He says that God raised Jesus from the dead, so obviousy Jesus is not God.

As Paul also said, Romans 1:7, "Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ". Our heavenly Father is not our Lord Jesus, and Jesus is not God! Jesus is God's son:

Romans 1:4) who was declared to be the Son of God with power, according to the Spirit of holiness, by the resurrection from the dead, Jesus Christ our Lord,

Joel 2:32
32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Will be delivered;
For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem
There will be those who escape,
As the Lord has said,
Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.


Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T. As Paul says He is the same Lord who is Lord of all. Jude calls Him our Only Lord and Paul in 1 Cor 8:6 says He is our One Lord.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."


So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

hope this helps!!!

 

[keithr]

Here we see Paul quote this OT passage about YHWH and apply it to Jesus who is the one and only Lord according to the N.T. As Paul says He is the same Lord who is Lord of all. Jude calls Him our Only Lord and Paul in 1 Cor 8:6 says He is our One Lord.

Yes, Paul quotes the Old Testament verse Joel 2:32, which refers to God Yahweh. However, he's not implying that it is referring to Jesus rather than Yahweh. Verse 11:

(11) For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

is referring to Isaiah 28:16 (Therefore thus says the Lord Yahweh, “Behold, I lay in Zion for a foundation a stone, a tried stone, a precious cornerstone of a sure foundation. He who believes shall not act hastily.), which Paul also refers to in Romans 9:33 (KJV):

(33) As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.​

That is referring to Jesus. But Paul's message here is concerning the Jews, and Paul's desire that they may be saved, and verses 12 and 13 are referring to the God of Israel, not Jesus. He says that the God of Israel, Yahweh, is the God of all mankind, repeating what he had written earlier in Romans 1:16 (WEB):

(16) For I am not ashamed of the Good News of Christ, because it is the power of God for salvation for everyone who believes; for the Jew first, and also for the Greek.​

So a person must confess Jesus is YHWH(Lord) to be saved. Confess means to agree with so the person confessing Jesus is Lord is in agreement that He is YHWH. Whoever will call upon the name of the Lord ( YHWH) will be saved.

No, he's not saying that. He quotes Joel and he is saying that to be saved we must all call on the name of YHWH and confess that Jesus is our Lord, as God has appointed him to be our Lord (Matthew 28:18). He finishes up his referring to the Jews with:

Romans 10:18-21 (WEB):

(18) But I say, didn’t they hear? Yes, most certainly, “Their sound went out into all the earth, their words to the ends of the world.”
(19) But I ask, didn’t Israel know? First Moses says, “I will provoke you to jealousy with that which is no nation. I will make you angry with a nation void of understanding.”
(20) Isaiah is very bold, and says, “I was found by those who didn’t seek me. I was revealed to those who didn’t ask for me.”
(21) But as to Israel he says, “All day long I stretched out my hands to a disobedient and contrary people.”​

and continues in chapter 11 with:

(1) I ask then, did God reject his people? May it never be! For I also am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.​

The "Good News of Christ", the Gospel, is not that Jesus is YHWH, it's that:

Romans 8:2-3 (WEB):

(2) For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus made me free from the law of sin and of death.
(3) For what the law couldn’t do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God did, sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh;​

Romans 5:1-11 (WEB):

(1) Being therefore justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ;
(2) through whom we also have our access by faith into this grace in which we stand. We rejoice in hope of the glory of God.
(3) Not only this, but we also rejoice in our sufferings, knowing that suffering produces perseverance;
(4) and perseverance, proven character; and proven character, hope:
(5) and hope doesn’t disappoint us, because God’s love has been poured out into our hearts through the Holy Spirit who [which/that] was given to us.
(6) For while we were yet weak, at the right time Christ died for the ungodly.
(7) For one will hardly die for a righteous man. Yet perhaps for a righteous person someone would even dare to die.
(8) But God commends his own love toward us, in that while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
(9) Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we will be saved from God’s wrath through him.
(10) For if, while we were enemies, we were reconciled to God through the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we will be saved by his life.
(11) Not only so, but we also rejoice in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom we have now received the reconciliation.​

 

[PinSeeker]

Pinseeker: we can't discount Hebrews 13:8, that Jesus is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And to not understand that as forever past to forever future ~ eternity past to eternity future ~ is just pure obstinance.​

It looks to me to be pure obstinance to insist that "yesterday" means "eternity past"!

So you think "yesterday" there means 24 hours ago? LOL! Yeah that's most certainly obstinance, and that's putting it mildly. Wow. No, Hebrews 13:8, that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever," is yet another proof that Jesus is God, because it's a clear reference to Malachi 3:6, were God says, "I, the LORD, do not change."

Okay, so if you were not assuming that God gave up His glory...

I wasn't...

...you were nevertheless saying that God gave glory to Jesus.

Nope. Jesus always had glory with the Father (and the Holy Spirit) from all eternity, and always will, throughout eternity. Jesus affirms in John 17:5 that was (and always will be) a mutual giving of honor in the interpersonal relationships of the triune Jehovah from all eternity (and to all eternity).

Now, the Father did glorify Jesus in His humanity ~ giving us a glimpse of what He will do once and for all for us when Jesus returns ~ but that's quite a different thing. The Father glorifying Jesus does not somehow mean that Jesus did not at any time previously mean that Jesus did not have glory.

This is a lesser thing, obviously, because I'm speaking here on a human level, but if I were to honor/glorify you, Keith, or give you honor/glory, that does not then mean that before that point you had no honor or glory, even from my own perspective in giving you honor/glory.

The fact that God glorified Jesus during His life on earth (and afterwards in His resurrection and finally His ascension) should in no way be taken to mean that Jesus never previously, or at any time did not, have the same glory as the Father with the Father. Like I said, referring to Paul's words in Philippians 2, Jesus set it aside for a time ~ did not wield it, even though in full possession of it ~ to make atonement for the sin of the world and thereby to accomplish our redemption.

...to be in harmony with Isaiah 42:8, where God says that He doesn't give His glory to anyone else, then surely the only conclusion is that the glory that He gave Jesus was not God's own glory...

That conclusion is right in the respect that the Father and the Son (and the Spirit) are distinct Persons. But we cannot conclude what you mistakenly conclude here without trampling on God's Word itself ~ namely John 17:5, where we see clearly that Jesus had this glory with ~ which irrefutably implies the sameness and equality in substance of said glory ~ the Father. Also, if your conclusion here were correct, that would mean Jesus, Who is the Word made flesh, would have been praying for something that is clearly contrary to scripture (Isaiah 42:8) and that He would have known would never be granted, which is a silly thing to entertain even for a moment. And on top of that, Jesus is praying for something that He has absolute confidence will be granted, which is (yet another) affirmation that He is God (YHVH) in the flesh.

...Jesus' glory must be different, and less glorious.

Absolutely not. See above.

So are you calling Jesus a liar? Jesus said, to God, John 17:24...

No. Absolutely not. See above.

Grace and peace to you.

 

[Rich R]

And Paul proclaims one must confess Jesus is YHWH/God ( LORD )to be saved in Romans 10:9-13.

???????

Rom 10:9-13,

9 that if you confess with your - mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your - heart that - God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.

10 For with your heart you believe and are justified, and with your mouth you confess and are saved.

11 It is just as the Scripture says: “Anyone who believes in Him will never be put to shame.”

12 For there is no difference between Jew and Greek: - The same Lord is Lord of all, and gives richly to all who call on Him,

13 for, “Everyone who - - calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.”
​

Where exactly does it say Jesus is Yahweh here?

Let's just take the simple phrase, "God raised him (Jesus)..."

Basic grammar dictates that God is the subject, raised is the verb in 3rd person active voice. The active voice means God did the raising to someone else, not himself. Had He raised Himself it would have been the passive voice. Finally, Jesus is the direct object, i,e, the one who received the action of God. The subject doing an action on the direct object absolutely means the subject and the direct object can in no wise be the same entity.

If we start ignoring basic grammar when reading the scriptures, there is no end to the confusion it causes. The truth well remain lost as long as we do that. We must read what's written without introducing our own ideas.

I trust you realize that not all lords in the scriptures are Yahweh. Jesus is one Lord but only because God made him so, just like He raised him from the dead.

Acts 2:36,

Therefore let all - Israel know with certainty that - God has made - this - Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ!”
​

One part of God making another part of God something? Doesn't that sound weird? I don's see how it couldn't.

The same grammatical construction as Romans 10:9 is in Acts 2:36; God (subject)t made (active voice), Jesus (direct object) Lord and Christ. Again, if we let the verse speak for itself, Jesus and God are two different entities. There is not a hint that we should break from the normal use of words and grammar and declare them to be the same entity.

The context is the crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus. That is when Jesus was made Lord and the head of the Church. Honestly, to come with any other takeaway requires a complete abandonment of simple word meanings and grammar.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Basic grammar dictates that God is the subject, raised is the verb in 3rd person active voice. The active voice means God did the raising to someone else, not himself. Had He raised Himself it would have been the passive voice.

Yes, grammar is good, but Overlooking Rule # 5c of Bible study Rules is not.

Therefore, we do have other Scriptures to Compare to enable us to understand,
By The Spirit, The Very Important Doctrine Of "The Resurrection Of JESUS CHRIST."
Amen? i.e.:

(1) The LORD JESUS Raised HIMSELF From the dead!:

"JESUS Answered And Said Unto them, Destroy This Temple, and in
three days I Will Raise It Up!...But HE Spake Of The Temple Of HIS BODY!"
(John_2:19, John_2:21 cp John_10:17-18)​

+
(2) God, The Father, Raised HIS SON From the dead!:

"Whom God Hath Raised Up, Having Loosed the pains of death:
because it was not possible that He should be holden of it!"

(Acts_2:24 cp Acts_2:32, Acts_3:15, Acts_3:26, Acts_10:40,
Acts_13:30, Acts_13:34, Acts _7:31; Romans_4:24, 6:4,
Romans_8:11; Ephesians_1:20; 1_Corinthians 6:14;
2_Corinthians 4:14; Hebrews_13:20; 1_Peter 1:21)​

+
(3) The Holy Spirit Raised The LORD JESUS CHRIST From the dead!:

"But if The Spirit Of HIM That Raised Up JESUS From the dead
Dwell in you, He That Raised up CHRIST from the dead Shall Also
Quicken your mortal bodies By HIS Spirit That Dwelleth In you."

(Romans_8:11 cp Acts_2:24, Acts_2:32; 1 Peter_3:18)​

Thus, The Complete Scriptural Conclusion is:

A Triune GodHead Resurrection Of JESUS CHRIST!​

-----------------------
Precious friend:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace... The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE!)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
+
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

 

[Rich R]

Yes, grammar is good, but Overlooking Rule # 5c of Bible study Rules is not.

Therefore, we do have other Scriptures to Compare to enable us to understand,
By The Spirit, The Very Important Doctrine Of "The Resurrection Of JESUS CHRIST."
Amen? i.e.:

(1) The LORD JESUS Raised HIMSELF From the dead!:

"JESUS Answered And Said Unto them, Destroy This Temple, and in
three days I Will Raise It Up!...But HE Spake Of The Temple Of HIS BODY!"
(John_2:19, John_2:21 cp John_10:17-18)​

+
(2) God, The Father, Raised HIS SON From the dead!:

"Whom God Hath Raised Up, Having Loosed the pains of death:
because it was not possible that He should be holden of it!"

(Acts_2:24 cp Acts_2:32, Acts_3:15, Acts_3:26, Acts_10:40,
Acts_13:30, Acts_13:34, Acts _7:31; Romans_4:24, 6:4,
Romans_8:11; Ephesians_1:20; 1_Corinthians 6:14;
2_Corinthians 4:14; Hebrews_13:20; 1_Peter 1:21)​

+
(3) The Holy Spirit Raised The LORD JESUS CHRIST From the dead!:

"But if The Spirit Of HIM That Raised Up JESUS From the dead
Dwell in you, He That Raised up CHRIST from the dead Shall Also
Quicken your mortal bodies By HIS Spirit That Dwelleth In you."

(Romans_8:11 cp Acts_2:24, Acts_2:32; 1 Peter_3:18)​

Thus, The Complete Scriptural Conclusion is:

A Triune GodHead Resurrection Of JESUS CHRIST!​

-----------------------
Precious friend:

Please Be Very RICHLY Encouraged, Enlightened, Exhorted, And Edified In
The LORD JESUS CHRIST, And In His Word Of Truth, Rightly Divided!

GRACE And Peace... The apostle of GRACE (2 Min With The BIBLE!)

FULL study:
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part I)
+
Paul, The apostle Of GRACE (Part II)

All good, but it still doesn't explain why we being in the form and image of God, doesn't make us God. Apparently it makes Jesus God. Why not us?

I think John 10:18 also raises questions for Trinitarians. Why would one part of God receive commandments from another part of God? If Jesus received something from God, there must have been a time when he didn't have it. Aren't all parts equal?

 

[GRACE ambassador]

All good...

Apparently NOT "all good," since you still question God's Word Of Truth
about The Triune GodHead?:

..but it still doesn't explain why we being in the form and image of God, doesn't make us God. Apparently it makes Jesus God. Why not us?

Sound Backwards! Christ, Being ETERNAL God, Became A Man, "Being In The
Form, And Image Of God."

We, on the other hand, are NOT eternal, having a beginning! Thus, we Cannot
"Be God," But, the saved are "predestinated to Be Conformed To The Image of
His SON" (Rom 8:29), i.e., sinless, immortal, and glorified "like Him." But,

NOT "ETERNAL" Like HIM! Amen?​

 

[Rich R]

Apparently NOT "all good," since you still question God's Word Of Truth
about The Triune GodHead?:

Sound Backwards! Christ, Being ETERNAL God, Became A Man, "Being In The
Form, And Image Of God."

We, on the other hand, are NOT eternal, having a beginning! Thus, we Cannot
"Be God," But, the saved are "predestinated to Be Conformed To The Image of
His SON" (Rom 8:29), i.e., sinless, immortal, and glorified "like Him." But,

NOT "ETERNAL" Like HIM! Amen?​

God is in the image and form of God? It says that about Jesus and us, but I don't see where God says He's in the image and form of God.

Matt 1:18,

Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.
​

Before someone is born they don't exist. Well, unless you want to believe Plato. He believed in the eternal soul.

However, to be fair, I should point out that the Jews did have a concept of pre-existence, but it's not like our modern idea. They understood it to mean something in God's mind. God certainly had Jesus in His mind from eternity (us too I might add), but neither Jesus nor any of us actually existed until we were born.

 

[Keiw]

All good, but it still doesn't explain why we being in the form and image of God, doesn't make us God. Apparently it makes Jesus God. Why not us?

I think John 10:18 also raises questions for Trinitarians. Why would one part of God receive commandments from another part of God? If Jesus received something from God, there must have been a time when he didn't have it. Aren't all parts equal?

Plus God taught Jesus everything, shared certain things like glory. Only the Father knows the day and hour-proving 100% 0 equality.
God is king of Eternity, If Jesus were God he was already king, but the ancient of days( God) appointed him as king, and he has to hand it back to his God and Father( 1 Cor 15:24-28) and subject himself--that will be forever...So one must ask--Does God have a God= NO. Is God in subjection to anyone= No.

 

[GRACE ambassador]

Plus God taught Jesus everything, shared certain things like glory. Only the Father knows the day and hour-proving 100% 0 equality.
God is king of Eternity, If Jesus were God he was already king, but the ancient of days( God) appointed him as king, and he has to hand it back to his God and Father( 1 Cor 15:24-28) and subject himself--that will be forever...So one must ask--Does God have a God= NO. Is God in subjection to anyone= No.

BEFORE I can conclude "NO!" I would make "Judgment Day" a TOP Priority in my
finite thinking, And Make Absolutely DEAD Sure I DID NOT Overlook ANY Of:

God's Infinite 500 Plain And Clear Passages! Amen?​

Bible Answer For Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

 

[Wrangler]

Hebrews 13:8, that "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever," is yet another proof that Jesus is God, because it's a clear reference to Malachi 3:6, were God says, "I, the LORD, do not change.

You don’t consider death a change?

 

[Wrangler]

the Father did glorify Jesus in His humanity

In Scripture only the Father is God.

And you are adding words to Scripture to fit your doctrine; it doesn’t say anything about in his humanity AS IF Jesus had any other nature - when God have glory to Jesus.

 

[Wrangler]

And Paul proclaims one must confess Jesus is YHWH/God ( LORD )to be saved in Romans 10:9-13.

Intellectually dishonest to pretend a lord (lowercase) is YHWH, LORD (capital) God.

 

[Keiw]

BEFORE I can conclude "NO!" I would make "Judgment Day" a TOP Priority in my
finite thinking, And Make Absolutely DEAD Sure I DID NOT Overlook ANY Of:

God's Infinite 500 Plain And Clear Passages! Amen?​

Bible Answer For Confusing church Bewilderment!

GRACE And Peace...

I surely appreciate your thoughts. But i know 100% for sure there are many mistranslated passages in trinity bibles that contradict Jesus teachings, which are the same in every bible basically. The religion that came out of Rome did it centuries ago. Jesus was never with them, that means his adversary was. When the protestants translated-1500,s they had no clue, just that that religion that came out of Rome was false. To this day, their translating exposes them as such.