A different take on signs and wonders.

[marks]

Your looking with the wrong kinds of eyes, as they have been blinded as is the premise of this post. Read the verses I quoted above to Bobbyjo from 1 cor. 2.... You are looking with natural eyes at what can be discerned spiritually only, this will never work and you will forever live not knowing the depth and riches of His Word. What You need is an epiphany like Paul had in Romans 11:33... O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! This is a wonderful experience few ever have, and is a great sign and wonder in and of itself to an individual believer. This is the impetus for why I declare the salvation of Christ despite the opposition I get online to doing so. In The Hopes that someone can share in that depth and riches of the Wisdom and knowledge of God, But the Obstacle is always the natural man and the mind of man. Whether that come in the form of textualism or Skepticism. Both come from the natural carnal mind.

For to be carnally minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. (Romans 8:6)
For ye are yet carnal: for whereas there is among you envying, and strife, and divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? (1 Cor. 3:3)

May God richly bless you!

So as much as you want it to be, which I don't have an issue with, yet, you cannot show anywhere that it IS prophesied.

And instead you just say, I'm not spiritual enough to "get it".

OK, I've heard that before. Call me carnal if it makes your life easier.

Much love!

 

[marks]

May God richly bless you!

May God bless you with a faith grounded in His Word.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Well said, sorry I missed your comment earlier. Do We truly hunger and thirst for righteousness? Do we truly see our need for the eysalve of God? Or are we self deceived and delusional saying we are "rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing" (Rev. 3:17)? The famine is there to show us our hunger, we need to respond to this with By seeking the manna of Heaven.

These are the questions each one must answer for themself.

What are we truly seeking? Fame and fortune, of some kind? Or the simple humility of subjecting ourselves to our God?

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

So as much as you want it to be, which I don't have an issue with, yet, you cannot show anywhere that it IS prophesied.

And instead you just say, I'm not spiritual enough to "get it".

OK, I've heard that before. Call me carnal if it makes your life easier.

Much love!

Agreed the previous post has nothing to do with signs and wonders, cessationism or not.

 

[marks]

This is a supposition on your part. Have you read any of the early church writings? The Miracles signs and wonders never ceased, they are just not recorded in the scriptures, because apart from Acts, the canon of scripture is not a historical record of the church. Here is a link to an article on this subject.

I form my doctrines from the Bible, really.

And when you look at the Biblical record, that's what you will see. Those left behind sick, those not healed, this was all after that time.

I don't question whether miracles were done. But not the signs and wonders, which were for Israel.

The upcoming signs and wonders will be for all the world. But to deceive.

https://www1.cbn.com/signs-and-wonders-early-post-apostolic-era

Interestingly, this article appears to me to describe the continuance of miracles, and casting out demons, but doesn't talk about what Jesus and the Apostles were doing in healing everyone around them, for instance. Multitudes came to Him, and He healed them all. Every one. Cast out demons, every one.

This article seems to be talking about individual acts of personal ministry, which is exactly what I think continues.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

This article seems to be talking about individual acts of personal ministry, which is exactly what I think continues.

Your view of signs and wonders is different than mine, Casting out demons and healings are the signs and wonders scripturally. Are we now powerless against these "principalities and powers"? Not at all, in fact Paul speaks of these weapons we are given to perform these signs and wonders... the armor of Light, armor of God.....
(For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds (2 Cor 10:4)

These are the signs and wonders, when God takes a fishermen or a tax collector or the simple things of this world and uses them to confound the wise, and the self exalted ones. This is a sign and wonder he has promised in scripture. When he uses the saints to expose the wickedness of the world that is concealed, this is a sign and wonder. When He shows His work in the lives of the Overcomers this is a sign and wonder. You limit signs and wonders to mass healings and mass feedings etc. What we are looking at now is not carnal signs but Spiritual ones. Signs of victory over the darkness of the world. The greatest of these victories is found in Revelation 12:10-11. This is what you are missing. This is what you fail to see because of natural eyes. This is not a condemnation but an encouragement for you to seek the eyesalve of God, to see that we need Christ to see, and the Holy Spirit to open our eyes. I come from fundamentalist background, I understand your thinking and what your saying and your apprehension, But I also have walked that Path to being taught not by textualism but by the Holy Ghost, God with us.... this is real and not just a doctrine, You can know him and experience him, and this is a sign and wonder unto itself.....

And instead you just say, I'm not spiritual enough to "get it".

OK, I've heard that before. Call me carnal if it makes your life easier.

This is the response of one who is still sees with natural eyes as Paul spoke to the Corinthian church of i 1 Corinthians 3. I encourage you to go beyond this and yearn for the eyesalve of God.

 

[David H.]

May God bless you with a faith grounded in His Word.

May God Grant you a faith that is beyond textualism and one that is based on His person. That you may Know the Love of God not just as a doctrine but as a real Person, Christ Jesus. He is the author and finisher of our faith.

 

[marks]

I come from fundamentalist background, I understand your thinking and what your saying and your apprehension, But I also have walked that Path to being taught not by textualism but by the Holy Ghost, God with us.... this is real and not just a doctrine, You can know him and experience him, and this is a sign and wonder unto itself.....

You don't actually know me.

Man, have I heard enough of people who when I question their doctrine they question my relationship. It's nonsense. Making me the topic isn't going to clarify anything, only your own opinions of others, and how free you feel to tell people whatever thing you think of them.

What is the usefulness? And you happen to be wrong about me, but whatever. The point is, it's meaningless.

You seem to have a problem with my holding to the teachings of the Bible, as if this holds me back from God.

You'll NEVER understand the Bible unless the Holy Spirit teaches you. But the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict His Own Word.

You can mistake the thoughts in your mind, anyone can. But the Words of Scripture never change!

Word search on "signs wonders", and you will see the pattern of usage, and what they are four.

14 verses in the NT, a couple of them about the lying signs and wonders.

Much love!

 

[ChristisGod]

You don't actually know me.

Man, have I heard enough of people who when I question their doctrine they question my relationship. It's nonsense. Making me the topic isn't going to clarify anything, only your own opinions of others, and how free you feel to tell people whatever thing you think of them.

What is the usefulness? And you happen to be wrong about me, but whatever. The point is, it's meaningless.

You seem to have a problem with my holding to the teachings of the Bible, as if this holds me back from God.

You'll NEVER understand the Bible unless the Holy Spirit teaches you. But the Holy Spirit will NEVER contradict His Own Word.

You can mistake the thoughts in your mind, anyone can. But the Words of Scripture never change!

Word search on "signs wonders", and you will see the pattern of usage, and what they are four.

14 verses in the NT, a couple of them about the lying signs and wonders.

Much love!

I've noticed that as well with the ad hominems.

 

[marks]

This is the response of one who is still sees with natural eyes as Paul spoke to the Corinthian church of i 1 Corinthians 3. I encourage you to go beyond this and yearn for the eyesalve of God.

No, Actually, this is the response of someone who disagrees with your teaching, and who doesn't wish to let you off so easily without a real response.

Making the discussion about me is something people generally do when they lack a real argument.

"The Bible doesn't really say it, but I just KNOW" doesn't really convince me, and especially when I read something different. And when the best argument becomes, "You're not sufficiently spiritual to understand", I can only assume you don't have anything better.

And to shine a light on that fact, I post this.

Much love!

 

[marks]

I've noticed that as well with the ad hominems.

That's the argument @David H. is making, an ad hominem argument.

Rather than present evidence to establish his assertion, he is making the argument that his assertion must be true because he, who is more spiritual than me, says it is, and I'm not sufficiently spiritual to know myself. So I should just take his word on it.

So, "to the person", rather than to the topic.

Much love!

 

[Getitright]

Re-Post:

Why do you ask for something you will not accept? Do you want to ARGUE; WASTE MY TIME; or MAKE YOURSELF SEEM WISE?

Prverbs 24:5 Answer a fool according to his folly,

lest he be wise in his own eyes.​

You've chosen your liars, so believe them and share in their punishment.
Bobby Jo​

Again, no Scripture. So, you believe something you can't prove. Who's the false teacher?

 

[Hidden In Him]

Your view of signs and wonders is different than mine, Casting out demons and healings are the signs and wonders scripturally.... You limit signs and wonders to mass healings and mass feedings etc. What we are looking at now is not carnal signs but Spiritual ones. Signs of victory over the darkness of the world.

Correct, David, and welcome again to our forum. Your posts are often well thought out, and you are poised and composed in your responses.

And these signs will follow those who believe: In My name they will cast out demons; they will speak with new tongues; they will take up serpents; and if they drink anything deadly, it will by no means hurt them; they will lay hands on the sick, and they will recover.” (Mark 16:17)

The sign of drinking deadly poison referred to here is clearly individual, unless one wants to make the argument that it is talking about large numbers of people all drinking poison at the same time, but this seems like an illogical and forced reading. By extension, taking up serpents is likely not referring to masses of people doing that either, nor is speaking in tongues therefore a reference to mass events like at Pentecost, unless again one is forcing the text and twisting that particular part of the verse out of context. And if all the above is true, casting out of demons is not a reference to mass exorcisms of multiple people. I have never actually heard of mass exorcism of multiple people being conducted all at once anyway. Every reference both Biblical and modern I have ever read about was conducted on an individual basis.

God bless, and welcome once again. You seem like you would make a great addition to our community, so I hope you stick around.
Hidden

 

[Bobby Jo]

Again, no Scripture. So, you believe something you can't prove. Who's the false teacher?

Ok, you want Scripture, then READ THE BIBLE.


How unintelligent can a person be?!?
Bobby Jo

 

[Getitright]

Ok, you want Scripture, then READ THE BIBLE.


How unintelligent can a person be?!?
Bobby Jo

Still no Scripture. Have you considered maybe what you claim isn't there?

 

[David H.]

That's the argument @David H. is making, an ad hominem argument.

Was Jesus Using Ad Hominem arguments when he said "he that hath an ear let him hear"? No He was pointing out that some will hear and some will not, Because they are incapable of hearing. Was the writer of Hebrews making an Ad Hominem argument when he said, "For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe." (Hebrews 4:13)?

No, they were making observations based on the resistance and immaturity to the word they were preaching. I Am merely making the same observation here, what you do with this is between yourself and God. Will the words convict you, is between yourself and God? Will they Point to something that is lacking in your life? If so the answer is not in agreeing with me But in realizing the need in yourself and seeking Christ and His riches which he has promised all believers. All I am saying is you are missing out on the riches of His Grace... That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. (Eph. 2:7) And the depth of His Love which is beyond comprehension... May be able to comprehend with all saints what is the breadth, and length, and depth, and height; And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God. (Eph. 3:18-19)

Thus all I am doing is encouraging and exhorting you, You clearly have understanding of things which is why I do not mind commenting to you, But are you capable of learning the things of God which are beyond comprehension and Human intellect? This is not a question for the immature, and is what Paul dealt with in the Corinthian church and In the Book of Hebrews?

May You experience His Power working in you abundantly. (Eph. 3:20)

 

[Bobby Jo]

Still no Scripture. Have you considered maybe what you claim isn't there?

Stop asking me for something you won't accept.

Simply accept what your "cult" tells you.
Bobby Jo

 

[marks]

Was Jesus Using Ad Hominem arguments when he said "he that hath an ear let him hear"?

No, but you are.

Rather than give Biblical support, and making assertions about the meaning of the Scriptures, supported by what the Scripture say, you claim a message that is not supported by the text, and when I challenge that, you change the discussion to be about me, and how I'm not spiritual enough to see it, and you're even laying it on pretty thick!

Will they Point to something that is lacking in your life?

What your words point to is the lack of substance in your argument.

And your willingness to speak even from your own ignorance, as you really don't know me.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Thus all I am doing is encouraging and exhorting you, You clearly have understanding of things which is why I do not mind commenting to you, But are you capable of learning the things of God which are beyond comprehension and Human intellect?

What you are doing is trying to promote your view based on your high opinion of yourself. And to denigrate my view based on your low opinion of me.

It's all there in your posts. This should really be something to consider.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Word search on "signs wonders", and you will see the pattern of usage, and what they are four.

14 verses in the NT, a couple of them about the lying signs and wonders.

Who is willing to do this?