A different take on signs and wonders.

[marks]

No, they were making observations based on the resistance and immaturity to the word they were preaching. I Am merely making the same observation here

The true resistance I'm showing here is my resistance to unsupported doctrine, that actually contradicts what is given in Scripture.

The more you answer that I'm blind and can't see it, the more I will answer with what is written in the Bible.

Here are the end-times signs and wonders:

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And for all those who are saying the church is going to rise up with signs and wonders, where is that in the Bible? These passages are clear and plain.

Much love!

 

[Getitright]

Stop asking me for something you won't accept.

Simply accept what your "cult" tells you.
Bobby Jo

The ad hominem is a sure sign you've lost the debate.

 

[marks]

The ad hominem is a sure sign you've lost the debate.

There just is simply no Scripture which backs this up, and there are several Scriptures which tell us a different story.

So . . . those who say that we will see signs and wonders, and that we should go after them, what is really happening here?

If the signs and wonders will be by deceivers to deceive, and we're being told that these will be signs and wonders from God, what then?

I know this. I wouldn't want to be the one saying that. I think we should learn the Scriptures, and understand what is really coming upon this earth.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Rather than give Biblical support, and making assertions about the meaning of the Scriptures, supported by what the Scripture say, you claim a message that is not supported by the text, and when I challenge that, you change the discussion to be about me, and how I'm not spiritual enough to see it, and you're even laying it on pretty thick!

Go Back and read the comments here again, I have used more scriptures to support my position than any of you have in my comments. This is simply a false accusation. My message IS supported by the text, but not by a single verse but the overall text of the whole of scripture. For example I am looking at the entirety of the revalatory quality of the Epistle to the Ephesians, which is not discussed in prophecy forums typically because People do not see it as Prophetic, But when the Word of God comes to life, and this is the best way to describe this, The Word of God begins to show and reveal the Wisdom of God contained in the scripture that man cannot grasp mentally because what is revealed is too big for our comprehension.

There are signs and wonders spoken of there, that are not seen by the carnal mind of the fulness of God, the Armor of God and the Riches of His Wisdom that most will miss out on because they are so sure in their own understanding..... Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths. (Proverbs 3:5-6)

All I am trying to do is encourage you to search these things out. "Seek and ye shall find"....

What you are doing is trying to promote your view based on your high opinion of yourself. And to denigrate my view based on your low opinion of me.

It's all there in your posts. This should really be something to consider.

From My perspective all I am trying to do is share what the LORD has done for me and shown me. Is this offensive to you? If so then this will go nowhere and you are not as mature in your faith as I thought, and gave you credit for. This response borders on "schoolyard". I am nothing apart from Christ.

Here is a song to bless you and encourage you, may God be glorified.

 

[marks]

From My perspective all I am trying to do is share what the LORD has done for me and shown me.

Perhaps you need to do a little re-reading, and see where in your posts you've done that, which is all fine, and where you pretty much stopped doing that and started making it all about my supposed lack of maturity, which you continue to do, yet apparently cannot see it.

I appreciate that you believe your view, as I do mine. You assume that I'm unspiritual because I disagree with you. And apparently you're not going to stop that. So it's going to be a problem in our discussions.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The true resistance I'm showing here is my resistance to unsupported doctrine, that actually contradicts what is given in Scripture.

The more you answer that I'm blind and can't see it, the more I will answer with what is written in the Bible.

Here are the end-times signs and wonders:

24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.

11 And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.
12 And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.
13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,
14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.
15 And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.

8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
9 Even him, whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders,
10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

And for all those who are saying the church is going to rise up with signs and wonders, where is that in the Bible? These passages are clear and plain.

Much love!

Personally, my concern is over the matter of people getting this idea that God is going to empower the church to do signs and wonders, and so a lot of people are looking for signs and wonders. Miracles, works of power . . . calling fire from heaven . . . these will be seen.

And the people will all say, This! This is what we've been looking for!

And the beast worship will begin.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

Personally, my concern is over the matter of people getting this idea that God is going to empower the church to do signs and wonders, and so a lot of people are looking for signs and wonders. Miracles, works of power . . . calling fire from heaven . . . these will be seen.

And the people will all say, This! This is what we've been looking for!

And the beast worship will begin.

Much love!

Marks, the scripture teaches that it will not be possible to deceive the elect by such means, so I think you are overly concerned about nothing. The focus is on the harvest and wanting to see it come pass. I think that because your view is that not many will be saved during the end-times, you see no importance in desiring that great demonstrations of God's power be made manifest in the earth, and this is the fundamental difference between us.

So I fully understand your position, how many would you say are going to come to Christ during the end-times, and in what manner? Do you believe that less and less people will be saved until only a few are left, for example, or is it maybe some other scenario?

God bless,
- H

 

[marks]

Marks, the scripture teaches that it will not be possible to deceive the elect by such means, so I think you are overly concerned about nothing.

The world at large hears that the Christians are expecting signs and wonders, and here are signs and wonders, so the world goes after them, goes after the beast, and all these Christians looking for signs and wonders encourage this.

The focus is on the harvest and wanting to see it come pass. I think that because your view is that not many will be saved during the end-times, you see no importance in desiring that great demonstrations of God's power be made manifest in the earth, and this is the fundamental difference between us.

So I fully understand your position, how many would you say are going to come to Christ during the end-times, and in what manner? Do you believe that less and less people will be saved until only a few are left, for example, or is it maybe some other scenario?

God bless,
- H

No, you don't understand my position very much at all based on the above.

I'll give some thought to see how I can best untangle these ideas.

Much love!

 

[marks]

The focus is on the harvest and wanting to see it come pass.

This is of course good, a heart for the lost to be saved. But Scripture prophesies differently. I can want the entire world to come to know Jesus and be reborn, and I can want God to reveal Himself in the skies above everyone so that they will believe, but this isn't the scenario the Bible foretells. If this were my desire, it would merely show my own wishes, without an understanding of what God has told to us.

When Jesus appears in the sky it will be for both salvation to some, and judgment to others. No matter what my desire.

I think that because your view is that not many will be saved during the end-times, you see no importance in desiring that great demonstrations of God's power be made manifest in the earth, and this is the fundamental difference between us.

This isn't correct.

My reason that I don't foresee the church performing signs and wonders is that nothing in the Bible prophesies this, and in fact speaks in an entirely different direction.

What we desire, again, and what the Bible prophesies, may be two very different things.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

No, you don't understand my position very much at all based on the above.

I'll give some thought to see how I can best untangle these ideas.

Did you give any more thought to my question? Let me ask it again. How many would you say are going to come to Christ during the end-times, and in what manner? Do you believe that less and less people will be saved until only a few are left, for example, or is it maybe some other scenario?

 

[Hidden In Him]

My reason that I don't foresee the church performing signs and wonders is that nothing in the Bible prophesies this, and in fact speaks in an entirely different direction.

Another question: Do you believe that God will speak to His people through visions and dreams, or is that something that has passed into history now?

 

[marks]

Did you give any more thought to my question? Let me ask it again. How many would you say are going to come to Christ during the end-times, and in what manner? Do you believe that less and less people will be saved until only a few are left, for example, or is it maybe some other scenario?

Let's refocus . . .

What saith Scripture?

Will those being saved become fewer, or more? How does it seem?

Luke 18:8 "I tell you that he will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless when the Son of man cometh, shall he find faith on the earth?"

Matthew 24:11-12 "And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many. And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold."

1 Timothy 4:1 "Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;"

2 Timothy 3:13 "But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived."

2 Timothy 4:3 "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;"

Revelation 9:20 "And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:"

Revelation 16:9 "And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory."

Revelation 16:11 "And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds."

What trend would you suppose this shows? I'm thinking that it means fewer and fewer will have faith.

Much love!

 

[Hidden In Him]

What trend would you suppose this shows? I'm thinking that it means fewer and fewer will have faith.

Then when scripture speaks of the end-time harvest, not many will be saved at this time?

 

[marks]

Then when scripture speaks of the end-time harvest, not many will be saved at this time?

Show the Scripture you have in mind. Let's look at it.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Then when scripture speaks of the end-time harvest, not many will be saved at this time?

What are your thoughts about the Scriptures I posted?

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Personally, my concern is over the matter of people getting this idea that God is going to empower the church to do signs and wonders, and so a lot of people are looking for signs and wonders. Miracles, works of power . . . calling fire from heaven . . . these will be seen.

And the people will all say, This! This is what we've been looking for!

And the beast worship will begin.

Much love!

The Signs and wonders I am speaking of are ones of victory over the devil, and Overcoming. I Pointed you to revelation 12:10-11 as one such sign, I Pointed to Ephesians 4 and the fulness of Christ manifesting in the church as she is empowered for the end time harvest in the Unity of the Spirit. I am pointing to the Wisdom of God exposing the things of Darkness as God has promised, and Of God using the simple to confound the wise of this world in this regard. These are all signs and wonders.

I Fully understand your apprehension as I said before, as I have been there, and done all those studies of signs and wonders and the negative connotation and uses of them, I am speaking of the promises of God fulfilled in the church here, and your apprehension can prevent you from receiving these promises. Think of the parable of the Talents here. That should cause you to wake up as to what is being said.
See Matthew 25:15-30.

 

[Hidden In Him]

What are your thoughts about the Scriptures I posted?

Much love!

That deception will increase, as an attempt to thwart the harvest.

Show the Scripture you have in mind. Let's look at it.

Much love!

37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 13:37-43)

 

[Truman]

There just is simply no Scripture which backs this up, and there are several Scriptures which tell us a different story.

So . . . those who say that we will see signs and wonders, and that we should go after them, what is really happening here?

If the signs and wonders will be by deceivers to deceive, and we're being told that these will be signs and wonders from God, what then?

I know this. I wouldn't want to be the one saying that. I think we should learn the Scriptures, and understand what is really coming upon this earth.

Much love!

Time will tell. Shalom.

 

[marks]

That deception will increase, as an attempt to thwart the harvest.


37 He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; 38 The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked one; 39 The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. 40 As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. 41 The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; 42 And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. 43 Then shall the righteous shine forth as the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Who hath ears to hear, let him hear. (Matthew 13:37-43)

How many does this show being saved?

Much love!

 

[marks]

I Fully understand your apprehension as I said before,

I'm not sure why you persist in coming back to this. It's not a matter of emotion for me.

Much love!