A different take on signs and wonders.

[marks]

You answered What is the gift of discerning of spirits.... I asked how does it manifest in the believer? What is associated with this gift falling upon a believer? I dare say none or few can answer because there is a blindness associated with this gift. You can look upcommentaries if you like, but they will not help as most have no experience with this gift.

Um . . . I don't really need a commentary for this one . . .

Perhaps you missed where I described this gift's manifestation. You know things.

Particular things, particular things, about the spiritual alignments of people, and of the source of what is coming through them.

Now, the particular working in an individual will be according to the Holy Spirit, and His working in us is not "cookie cutter". It's personal.

Your turn.

How do you answer your question.

Much love!

 

[marks]

Heading in to work, look forward to reading responses.

Enjoy!

 

[Angelina]

Hi Angelina welcome to the discussion.
1. Every Christian has discernment But not every Christian has the gift of discerning of spirits. Just like every believer can have a miraculous healing occur, but few have the gift of healing. 2. Your criticism is flawed because you do not make this distinction. An Outpouring is when a large group simultaneously receives a gift as in the gift of Tongues.

I asked @marks The question "How is it that the gift of discerning of spirits manifests in a believer?"

His response was what this gift is, My question was how does this manifest itself in the believer? My guess is that most here or anywhere will not be able to answer this question because no one has experienced this recently, and this is being withheld. Then I will tie this in with scripture.

Point 1. Brother, without the discernment of Spirits, I would not be able to work in the deliverance ministry, something that you would probably not understand or make account for in this conversation.

Point 2. Is this the outpouring your talking about????
Joel 2:28
And it shall come to pass afterward, that I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions:

Acts 2:1-5
And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they were all with one accord in one place.
2 And suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind, and it filled all the house where they were sitting.
3 And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them.
4 And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.
5 And there were dwelling at Jerusalem Jews, devout men, out of every nation under heaven.

Peter said in Acts 2:17
15 For these are not drunken, as ye suppose, seeing it is but the third hour of the day.
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

What part of this do you not understand???

The real reason why there will never be an agreement between these two pole positions is quite clear.
Those who do not believe that the gifts are for today are those whose doctrine does not allow for it but mainly because they do not move in those specific gifts. The reason why those who believe the gifts are for today, is mainly because they move in those gifts. Nuff said!

 

[Getitright]

There just is simply no Scripture which backs this up, and there are several Scriptures which tell us a different story.

So . . . those who say that we will see signs and wonders, and that we should go after them, what is really happening here?

If the signs and wonders will be by deceivers to deceive, and we're being told that these will be signs and wonders from God, what then?

I know this. I wouldn't want to be the one saying that. I think we should learn the Scriptures, and understand what is really coming upon this earth.

Much love!

Yeah, as I pointed out earlier, the history of the church shows us that shortly after the apostles there was only a remnant of the gifts remaining.

 

[Angelina]

Those who drink milk, love milk but those who have tasted wine will never want to go back to milk...

 

[Heart2Soul]

You answered What is the gift of discerning of spirits.... I asked how does it manifest in the believer? What is associated with this gift falling upon a believer? I dare say none or few can answer because there is a blindness associated with this gift. You can look upcommentaries if you like, but they will not help as most have no experience with this gift.

I have had this experience...the first time I found out what it was happened when I attended a church service by invitation and when I walked in the front door the usher greeted me and hugged me around my shoulders (a one arm hug) and I felt lust and was uncomfortable...I sat in my seat and throughout the service I felt lust. After service I was driving home and said "Father, what was THAT all about? I do not lust after the flesh!"....He said that was discernment....i said ohhhh well that makes all those times in the past make sense now. It wasn't me...it was discerning what was in others.
And that's how I came to understand spiritual discernment.

 

[Heart2Soul]

Those who drink milk, love milk but those who have tasted wine will never want to go back to milk...

Amen!

 

[David H.]

Um . . . I don't really need a commentary for this one . . .

Perhaps you missed where I described this gift's manifestation. You know things.

Particular things, particular things, about the spiritual alignments of people, and of the source of what is coming through them.

Now, the particular working in an individual will be according to the Holy Spirit, and His working in us is not "cookie cutter". It's personal.

Your turn.

How do you answer your question.

Much love!

That is a definition of WHAT discernment is. We all have this to an extant as granted by the Holy Ghost. This is formulaic and logical involving the tests of the spirit spoken of in scripture, What the gift of discerning of the spirits is, is not mental, But Visual. It is both negative and positive, It is not just being able to see deception and cunning, But also veracity and righteousness. Just as Mal. 3:18 speaks of. I will give you another clue in the form of a question. What does it mean that your "Eye be single"(KJV) as found in Matthew 6:22-23? The reason why I am doing this in questions is so that you can discover this yourself and be taught by the Holy Ghost. Those verses in Matthew 6:22-23 are a BIG clue to answer my first question.

 

[David H.]

Is this the outpouring your talking about????

What Happened in Acts 2 Is the early rain, what will happen before the harvest is the latter rain.... Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. (James 5:7-8)

The real reason why there will never be an agreement between these two pole positions is quite clear.
Those who do not believe that the gifts are for today are those whose doctrine does not allow for it but mainly because they do not move in those specific gifts. The reason why those who believe the gifts are for today, is mainly because they move in those gifts. Nuff said!

If I believed words like "never" I would not have been called to do what He has called me to do. I Expect resistance, Opposition, and false accusation, But I "never" Give up because I Know that I am not the one that changes people's hearts the Holy Ghost does, By the will of God. My Job is to speak, or write what He shows me, What He shows me is sometimes beyond my own comprehension and I have a hard time expressing Those things, But if I were to say it is hopeless... I would be a worthless servant. All Glory is His.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Romans 8:37

Point 1. Brother, without the discernment of Spirits, I would not be able to work in the deliverance ministry, something that you would probably not understand or make account for in this conversation.

Jesus said there will be many casting out demons in his name that never Knew him. I am not doubting you having this gift, But am asking you to share how this gift manifested in your life, for the benefit of those who do not know. Every person is different in this respect, but there are common elements in all of them. My Point in this OP Is that this will be a gift that will be poured out in masse to those who love the truth in the final outpouring in the end times....

I Personally believe each church age is marked by an early rain and a latter rain. But this is a different subject altogether.... For example this final age, "The Amen" age began with the gift of tongues falling on those who sought this, And it will reach its climax with the Gift of Discerning of Spirits being poured out on the overcomers (The eye salve of God opening their eyes.)

 

[Angelina]

1.What Happened in Acts 2 Is the early rain, what will happen before the harvest is the latter rain.... Be patient therefore, brethren, unto the coming of the Lord. Behold, the husbandman waiteth for the precious fruit of the earth, and hath long patience for it, until he receive the early and latter rain. Be ye also patient; stablish your hearts: for the coming of the Lord draweth nigh. (James 5:7-8)

If I believed words like "never" I would not have been called to do what He has called me to do. I Expect resistance, Opposition, and false accusation, But I "never" Give up because I Know that I am not the one that changes people's hearts the Holy Ghost does, By the will of God. My Job is to speak, or write what He shows me, What He shows me is sometimes beyond my own comprehension and I have a hard time expressing Those things, But if I were to say it is hopeless... I would be a worthless servant. All Glory is His.

Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. Romans 8:37

2. Every p Jesus said there will be many casting out demons in his name that never Knew him. I am not doubting you having this gift, But am asking you to share how this gift manifested in your life, for the benefit of those who do not know.erson is different in this respect, but there are common elements in all of them. My Point in this OP Is that this will be a gift that will be poured out in masse to those who love the truth in the final outpouring in the end times....

I Personally believe each church age is marked by an early rain and a latter rain. But this is a different subject altogether.... For example this final age, "The Amen" age began with the gift of tongues falling on those who sought this, And it will reach its climax with the Gift of Discerning of Spirits being poured out on the overcomers (The eye salve of God opening their eyes.)

1. Some theologians obviously believed that the early and latter rain referred to the outpouring of the Holy Spirit x2. Why would the Holy Spirit pour out again when he dwells in believers today beginning on the day of pentecost?

If you look at the history of this theology, you will find that it originated in the USA back in the 1880s. At some point these same believers referred to the outbreak of revivals in Azusa street and other places around the country, as latter rain outpourings. So I guess it depends on what church you associate with.

In Joel 2:28 you will note this key phase " “And it shall come to pass afterward, That I will Pour my Spirit on All Flesh."
which indicates that the writer was speaking of another event and not the passages from Joel 2:23-27.

2. I am not at liberty to share my experiences in the area of deliverance for you to dissect as God knows your heart dear brother. I will however share my experiences with those who are genuinely interested in this area of ministry and who not only believe that the gifts are for today, they move in them....

The rest of your opinions are of course, made moot. Bless ya!

 

[marks]

That is a definition of WHAT discernment is. We all have this to an extant as granted by the Holy Ghost. This is formulaic and logical involving the tests of the spirit spoken of in scripture, What the gift of discerning of the spirits is, is not mental, But Visual. It is both negative and positive, It is not just being able to see deception and cunning, But also veracity and righteousness. Just as Mal. 3:18 speaks of. I will give you another clue in the form of a question. What does it mean that your "Eye be single"(KJV) as found in Matthew 6:22-23? The reason why I am doing this in questions is so that you can discover this yourself and be taught by the Holy Ghost. Those verses in Matthew 6:22-23 are a BIG clue to answer my first question.

Visual, I understand what you are saying. You do know that the operation of gifts are different with different people.

You eye being single and having an evil eye are to be generous, or stingy.

Much love!

 

[marks]

What does it mean that your "Eye be single"(KJV) as found in Matthew 6:22-23? The reason why I am doing this in questions is so that you can discover this yourself and be taught by the Holy Ghost.

Context, you know . . .

19 Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal:
20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: 21 for where thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also.
22 The lamp of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
23 But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is the darkness!
24 No man can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one, and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

If therefore thine eye be single . . . unfolded, or open.

Compare to Deuteronomy 15, talking about how we are to give. And who has the "evil eye".

People who have the desire to keep their things will tend to see others as on intrusion, or seeking advantage, or a nuisance, and this is the "evil eye". People who see others simply as the recipients of God's love will give to their need.

What's inside you will reflect in how you percieve others. And if your eye is evil toward them, you will be missing the heart of being alive in this world, in that we are to be loving God, and loving others.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

Visual, I understand what you are saying. You do know that the operation of gifts are different with different people.

You eye being single and having an evil eye are to be generous, or stingy.

What does the eye being single mean? ἁπλοῦς haploûs, hap-looce'; probably from G1 (as a particle of union) and the base of G4120; properly, folded together, i.e. single (figuratively, clear):—single. (Strong's definition) This is the adjective form of the noun ἁπλότης haplótēs, hap-lot'-ace; from G573; singleness, i.e. (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self-seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal):—bountifulness, liberal(-ity), simplicity, singleness. G4120 which the word is rooted in literally means to plait, braid, weave together, as in a rope or more importantly as in the fringe of a garment, (Think In terms of Hebrew fringe of their garment).

And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: (Num. 15:39)

Notice again the contrast between Natural eyes and Spiritual eyes, the fringe being what reminded them of the Glory of the LORD which they saw at mount Sinai, So Your eye being single, points directly to the Glory of the LORD. Which contrasts with the heart that is natural and eyes that see the natural that goes after harlotry.

WE as believers are earthen vessels, We are the temple now, and the Glory of the LORD is within us. When a gift of discerning of the spirits falls on a person they see this light in the believers, and see its absence in unbelievers. The Artistic concept of a Halo is not even close to what is seen though I suspect this is how early believers who had this gift tried to express it. What I can tell you is that this light eminates from the saints, But not from the faithful in Christ Jesus, although their eye is not darkness as is the case of the Wicked. To Put it another way, Some believers have yet to put on their armor of Light, Because they have yet to see their need to do so (Read Romans 13:12-14 here) Nor do they understand how to.

Now let's speak of the implications of this for end times. We are speaking of Spiritual eyes to see what is light and what is darkness, what you have with this outpouring is the revelation of the Spirits at work in people whether the Holy Spirit, Or demonic spirits. This revelation will allow us to have the man of sin revealed before the end, the Antichrist. This will allow us to hear the trumpet call of the LORD, to see the heavens open up like a scroll, to see the stars falling from heaven, This is the very gift that John had when he saw the visions of Revelation, this is the very Gift that Paul was given when he was carried away to third heaven And these sorts of visions are what will manifest in the end times church when this gift falls upon them, the rest will fall into the strong delusion and believe the lie.

Imho we should all be desiring and wanting this final outpouring upon us, as those who do not receive it WILL fall away. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.... So few in the church see and acknowledge the need to even explain what this gift of discerning of spirits involves. Most assume they have it because they have a modicum of discernment from the Holy Ghost, But not the gift. You can even have people doing deliverance ministries who do not have this gift, thinking they do, as Jesus said "he never Knew them" (Matthew 7:22-23)

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Cor. 2:9-10)

May His Spirit reveal the deep things of God to you!

 

[marks]

What does the eye being single mean? ἁπλοῦς haploûs, hap-looce'; probably from G1 (as a particle of union) and the base of G4120; properly, folded together, i.e. single (figuratively, clear):—single. (Strong's definition) This is the adjective form of the noun ἁπλότης haplótēs, hap-lot'-ace; from G573; singleness, i.e. (subjectively) sincerity (without dissimulation or self-seeking), or (objectively) generosity (copious bestowal):—bountifulness, liberal(-ity), simplicity, singleness. G4120 which the word is rooted in literally means to plait, braid, weave together, as in a rope or more importantly as in the fringe of a garment, (Think In terms of Hebrew fringe of their garment).

And it shall be unto you for a fringe, that ye may look upon it, and remember all the commandments of the LORD, and do them; and that ye seek not after your own heart and your own eyes, after which ye use to go a whoring: (Num. 15:39)

Notice again the contrast between Natural eyes and Spiritual eyes, the fringe being what reminded them of the Glory of the LORD which they saw at mount Sinai, So Your eye being single, points directly to the Glory of the LORD. Which contrasts with the heart that is natural and eyes that see the natural that goes after harlotry.

WE as believers are earthen vessels, We are the temple now, and the Glory of the LORD is within us. When a gift of discerning of the spirits falls on a person they see this light in the believers, and see its absence in unbelievers. The Artistic concept of a Halo is not even close to what is seen though I suspect this is how early believers who had this gift tried to express it. What I can tell you is that this light eminates from the saints, But not from the faithful in Christ Jesus, although their eye is not darkness as is the case of the Wicked. To Put it another way, Some believers have yet to put on their armor of Light, Because they have yet to see their need to do so (Read Romans 13:12-14 here) Nor do they understand how to.

Now let's speak of the implications of this for end times. We are speaking of Spiritual eyes to see what is light and what is darkness, what you have with this outpouring is the revelation of the Spirits at work in people whether the Holy Spirit, Or demonic spirits. This revelation will allow us to have the man of sin revealed before the end, the Antichrist. This will allow us to hear the trumpet call of the LORD, to see the heavens open up like a scroll, to see the stars falling from heaven, This is the very gift that John had when he saw the visions of Revelation, this is the very Gift that Paul was given when he was carried away to third heaven And these sorts of visions are what will manifest in the end times church when this gift falls upon them, the rest will fall into the strong delusion and believe the lie.

Imho we should all be desiring and wanting this final outpouring upon us, as those who do not receive it WILL fall away. The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few.... So few in the church see and acknowledge the need to even explain what this gift of discerning of spirits involves. Most assume they have it because they have a modicum of discernment from the Holy Ghost, But not the gift. You can even have people doing deliverance ministries who do not have this gift, thinking they do, as Jesus said "he never Knew them" (Matthew 7:22-23)

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Cor. 2:9-10)

May His Spirit reveal the deep things of God to you!

You seem to be waiting for things which God gives now to those who trust Him.

Now let's speak of the implications of this for end times. We are speaking of Spiritual eyes to see what is light and what is darkness,

You should read that verse again. It's not about seeing light and darkness, the point is, how you see related to whether you have light or darkness within you.

Much love!

 

[marks]

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him. But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God. (1 Cor. 2:9-10)

Context . . .

7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

God has revealed them unto us. He already has.

And what has God revealed? The wisdom of God in Christ crucified.

11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Much love!

 

[David H.]

You seem to be waiting for things which God gives now to those who trust Him.

You seem to think you have what you do not have thinking you are in need of nothing.... this is the classic definition of complacency... Laodicea is the complacent church.

All I am trying to encourage you to do is to admit your need of Christ Jesus in his fulness. We all do.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. Eph 5:14

 

[marks]

You seem to think you have what you do not have thinking you are in need of nothing....

That's pure projection.

 

[marks]

All I am trying to encourage you to do is to admit your need of Christ Jesus in his fulness. We all do.

What you are trying to do is to get me to let go of my more literal take on the Bible so I'll accept your eschatology.

Much love!

 

[marks]

You seem to think you have what you do not have thinking you are in need of nothing.... this is the classic definition of complacency... Laodicea is the complacent church.

This, instead of any comments on my post contents.

Go figure!

 

[marks]

marks said: ↑
You seem to be waiting for things which God gives now to those who trust Him.

You seem to think you have

Yet you ARE waiting for things which others believe, including myself, that you can have now, should that be God's will for you. The Spirit has been given to us, with all the service the Bible describes for us, including discerning of spirits.

Much love!