A Fist Full of Doubt's

[bbyrd009]

We have hope that it will be better than here.

HUGS

ha ok then…
but since this is an atheist thread, i feel i would be remiss not to Quote some Scripture on the matter,
All go to the same place
You and your sons will be here with me
No one has ever gone up to heaven

 

[bbyrd009]

A cloud.

which is surely a metaphor

 

[Brakelite]

Alright, for the sake of conversation.

To see the end of society and the world, then I can be at rest and leave.

Jesus has the biggest and most thoroughly thought out plan for cancel culture.
KJV Daniel 2:35, 44-45
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

 

[Brakelite]

ha ok then…
but since this is an atheist thread, i feel i would be remiss not to Quote some Scripture on the matter,
All go to the same place
You and your sons will be here with me
No one has ever gone up to heaven

Yep, until...
KJV John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

 

[bbyrd009]

Yep, until...
KJV John 5:28-29
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

thing is that “the dead” or “in the graves” is also used as allegory for “the lost” in the Bible, and the audience had basically been captured by the belief in the “afterlife” of the cult of sol? As “hour,” rather than “day” or even “time” might be hinting at.

Dunno what they say these days, but pastors used to say “buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him” at baptisms, right? Suggesting that that did not used to be read near so literally. So, dont get me wrong, id love that as much as the next believer, but taken with the rest of Scripture i now suspect it is wishful thinking

 

[Brakelite]

thing is that “the dead” or “in the graves” is also used as allegory for “the lost” in the Bible, and the audience had basically been captured by the belief in the “afterlife” of the cult of sol? As “hour,” rather than “day” or even “time” might be hinting at.

Dunno what they say these days, but pastors used to say “buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him” at baptisms, right? Suggesting that that did not used to be read near so literally. So, dont get me wrong, id love that as much as the next believer, but taken with the rest of Scripture i now suspect it is wishful thinking

Yeah well, whatever spin we may attach to those words, because it was Jesus speaking I tend to accept them as they read. Particularly when later expositor's agreed such as Paul...
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

 

[bbyrd009]

Alright, for the sake of conversation.

To see the end of society and the world, then I can be at rest and leave.

“Secretly everyone is waiting for the end of the world” HMurakami
so may i suggest that that prolly wont happen, note that most “believers” are hoping for the same thing, basically.

however, the world does in fact seem to be “passing away” in due course?

 

[bbyrd009]

Yeah well, whatever spin we may attach to those words, because it was Jesus speaking I tend to accept them as they read. Particularly when later expositor's agreed such as Paul...
KJV 1 Corinthians 15:51-55
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.
55 O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?

well, you are sure free to believe what you like, but imo you have to ignore a lot of other Scripture to hold that belief, and we are even warned that Paul is easily misinterpreted, yes?

A mortal put on mortality is subtly different from “become an immortal” which would violate other Scripture anyway, There is only One Immortal…

ive had this discussion many times now, and im wondering this morning if it doesnt hinge upon whether one identifies with soul, or with spirit?

 

[Brakelite]

well, you are sure free to believe what you like, but imo you have to ignore a lot of other Scripture to hold that belief, and we are even warned that Paul is easily misinterpreted, yes?

A mortal put on mortality is subtly different from “become an immortal” which would violate other Scripture anyway, There is only One Immortal…

ive had this discussion many times now, and im wondering this morning if it doesnt hinge upon whether one identifies with soul, or with spirit?

Living forever doesn't necessarily make one immortal. And even being given immortality didn't necessarily mean one become a God in that the gift is inherent. It's still conditional. The tree of life is still bearing fruit to which we need to resort to for healing once a month.

 

[I.O.U]

I knew God existed from my youth. I wasn't raised in a church but I always believed in God. I didn't worship him. I wanted what the god of this world offered. God didn't reveal himself to me until my late twenties. I believe God that everyone deep down really knows God exists. I think these doubts are your flesh making excuses to not follow God.

I don't believe in any God because I have nothing to go on.

 

[I.O.U]

I am now traveling to a local church while it's still dark. My mission is to use an outside power point for my mobile.

 

[bbyrd009]

Living forever doesn't necessarily make one immortal

hmm ok

And even being given immortality didn't necessarily mean one become a God in that the gift is inherent. It's still conditional.

you sound awful sure wadr

The tree of life is still bearing fruit to which we need to resort to for healing once a month.

once a month? which i gather is derived from "12 times?"
thing is, i guess they used a 13 month calendar then?
"12" in Scripture is generally meant as a kind of code, i think?

 

[bbyrd009]

I don't believe in any God because I have nothing to go on.

the Hebrews were i guess considered "atheist" by the Romans bc they had no Icons in their "holy of holies"
which maybe speaks to your point?

or to rephrase, i dont believe in any "God" that might be defined, either! Yah does not "exist!" at least imo
as strange as that maybe sounds?
you exist, i exist...Yah is "I AM" iow, a different state of "being"

 

[amadeus]

thing is that “the dead” or “in the graves” is also used as allegory for “the lost” in the Bible, and the audience had basically been captured by the belief in the “afterlife” of the cult of sol? As “hour,” rather than “day” or even “time” might be hinting at.

Dunno what they say these days, but pastors used to say “buried with Him in death, raised to new life in Him” at baptisms, right? Suggesting that that did not used to be read near so literally. So, dont get me wrong, id love that as much as the next believer, but taken with the rest of Scripture i now suspect it is wishful thinking

I do believe that a whole lot of such "wishful thinking" occurs among those who say they are believers.

 

[bbyrd009]

I do believe that a whole lot of such "wishful thinking" occurs among those who say they are believers.

well, i started the ezack same way lol
believed a literal "rapture," the whole bit
great intro, imo...well, good as any anyway, prolly?

 

[BarneyFife]

Jesus has the biggest and most thoroughly thought out plan for cancel culture.
KJV Daniel 2:35, 44-45
35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshing floors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.
44 And in the days of these kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed: and the kingdom shall not be left to other people, but it shall break in pieces and consume all these kingdoms, and it shall stand for ever.
45 Forasmuch as thou sawest that the stone was cut out of the mountain without hands, and that it brake in pieces the iron, the brass, the clay, the silver, and the gold; the great God hath made known to the king what shall come to pass hereafter: and the dream is certain, and the interpretation thereof sure.

 

[Mantis]

I don't believe in any God because I have nothing to go on.

You have the Bible. It is your choice not to believe it.

I am curious, do you not believe that Jesus was God the son or do you not believe he even existed?

 

[amadeus]

well, i started the ezack same way lol
believed a literal "rapture," the whole bit
great intro, imo...well, good as any anyway, prolly?

Some people are strongly into the rapture or the OSAS, I believe, because it takes some of the pressure off... at least in their minds. I am not speaking especially against those two things, for some people may really sincerely believe that way and trust God that way.

Too many people, however, like the easy resulting avoidance of pain and the persecutions which we are supposed to endure. How many of us would like Stephen just keep on talking away with what God gave us to say even it was causing more and more people to pick up rocks and throw them at us?

"Then they cried out with a loud voice, and stopped their ears, and ran upon him with one accord,
And cast him out of the city, and stoned him: and the witnesses laid down their clothes at a young man's feet, whose name was Saul.
And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, receive my spirit." Acts 7:57-59

"Remember the word that I said unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord. If they have persecuted me, they will also persecute you; if they have kept my saying, they will keep yours also." John 15:20

 

[Enoch111]

I am now traveling to a local church while it's still dark. My mission is to use an outside power point for my mobile.

Sounds quite sinister. An Australian atheist traveling to a church while it is still dark. What's the plan? Arson? A lot of church buildings in Canada were burnt down not too long a go.

 

[marks]

You have the Bible. It is your choice not to believe it.

I am curious, do you not believe that Jesus was God the son or do you not believe he even existed?

That Bible tells us everyone believes God exists. The says it's the fool who tells themself there is no God. What is foolish about holding to sincere beliefs? What you believe true? But if you know God is there, and that He will judge you in the end . . . many people don't want to hold that in mind, and the more they feel guilty, the more they deny their Creator.

Much love!