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A new Catholic perspective

Discussion in 'Christian Theology Forum' started by goldy, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. goldy

    goldy New Member

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    (thesuperjag;22095)
    I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15 all scriptures that says Christ was without sin.To say Mary was sinless ruins the world point of Christ as Saviour of the world.Jag
    I disagree......Mary brings us to Christ."No Mary, No Jesus" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta
     
  2. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    that's OUR interpretation of those verses
    You know the verse where it says, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off. and if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out.. well, my interpretation is literal. and i've been blind without my limbs for several years now.You'd say that's crazy right?But by saying that's OUR interpretation. That implies that theres more than one answer. More than one right way to do things. Now, obviously, the verse was not meant to be taken literally, but that's exactly my point.Confession to me is glorified accountability. My problem with it, is when the guy decides how bad it is, and how many "hail marys" you need to say in order to be able to go on with your day. Jesus didn't tell the woman who was about to be stoned by the religious people, go and sin no more, but before you do, say a few hail marys for me. **** I am not trying to insult or anything, please do not take this as an insult, and I apologize if I does insult you, I'm just trying to make my point!
     
  3. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    Hi goldy(goldy;22167)
    Great question. If you're referring to the doctrine of Sola Fide (spelling?), we don't believe in this. In a nutshell, we believe you have to accept Jesus as your personal Lord and Savior. But then we have to prove this......that's where works come in. It's not an either/or for us......it's a both/and. It's not only faith, it's not only works. Hope this helps
    I'm refering to the doctrine of justification before God. If you have the time, this will explain. http://www.christianityboard.com/justifica...some-t3607.htmlSo I guess that the question still stands...Do you believe that we are saved by grace alone, through faith alone, in Jesus Christ alone?Also...When you say "But then we have to prove this", who are we proving this too?Als...1 Timothy 2:5. John 14:6.God blessDave
     
  4. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (goldy;22170)
    Kriss, please prove that Catholics worship Mary. If you just "assume" we do, please watch what you say. This is a very dangerous way of thinking. As for confession, that's OUR interpretation of those verses. To me, it's very clear. No offense, but I'll take the interpretation of an institution that has been in place for 2000 years as opposed to someone who's been on earth for less than 100........assuming you are under 100 years old:angel1:
    Respectfully, where in the Bible is the church called an "institution." Has not the church been around far longer than 2000 years? "This is that Moses, ... A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you ... This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sinai ..." Acts 7:35-38. The word "church" means "called out," and the church is Christ's body (Eph. 1:19-23), and there is but one body. Eph. 4:4. The church is composed of those who hear and follow the voice of Christ, for Christ says: "My sheep hear My voice," "and they follow Me." John 10:27. That church in the wilderness is therefore identical with the true church of Christ in every age, for Abraham preached the gospel (Gal. 3:8), and there is only one gospel for all time; Christ and Him crucified. Remember that "the house of God" is the "church of the living God." Hebrews 3:2-6; 1 Timothy 3:15. Moses was faithful in the house of God as a servant, and Christ as a Son over the same house, "whose house we are, if we hold fast in confidence and rejoicing. Christ was the Head and Leader of the host that came out with Moses. 1 Corinthians 10:1-10. Jake
     
  5. Dave...

    Dave... New Member

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    I'll save this for another thread. Edit! LOL
     
  6. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (goldy;22172)
    I disagree......Mary brings us to Christ."No Mary, No Jesus" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta
    Was Mary sinless?Everyone is born, including your children, with a sinful nature. Romans 8:1-4. As the result of the Fall, men and women are by nature spiritually bent. Sin is more then an act, but a condition man is born into. We are by nature selfish, bent towards self. Even our cute adorable cuddly babies demand attention in many different forms. Babies do not exercise faith, yet whatever is not of faith is sin. Certainly they are ignorant, and God winks at that and are protected by the household.Paul defines this principle of self as "the law of sin and death" that is at work in our lives (Rom. 8:2; 7:23). Ps. 51:5. "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me." This was David's spiritual condition. Mary did not receive an exemption, there is nothing to point to in the Bible to say such, institutions are not holders of the truth, Christ is, and the revelation He gave us of Him is in the Bible. Jake
     
  7. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    Regarding the "don't bring your Bible." ... honestly, that has not been my experience in the Catholic Church. I receieved Jesus as my personal Lord & Savior 15 years ago. I attended several very good Bible based-non-denominational churches where I developed a great love for the Bible. It was my respect for the Bible as God's Holy Word that helped convince me, through the power of the Holy Spirit, that the Catholic Church was true based on John Chapter 6. I just couldn't ignore Jesus when he repeatedly said "this IS my body." I have been receieving Jesus in the Eucharist for the past two years and my relationship with Him is more meaningful than I can describe. I continue to study the Bible at my Parish, (lots of Bible study opportunities) and I hear the Word at mass more than at any Church I previously attended. I'm sorry that someone told you "not to bring your Bible" to a Catholic Church. I can see how that would totally give you a bad impression of what we're about. I hope I was able to clear things up just a bit?
     
  8. lupins_girl

    lupins_girl New Member

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    Hi,How does somebody become a Catholic who wasn't born into it like you were?
     
  9. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    (lupins_girl;22186)
    Hi,How does somebody become a Catholic who wasn't born into it like you were?
    Hi there. I wasn't born into the Catholic Church. I just started attending mass - just like I would any other Church. When I wanted to understand exactly what they believed (which, by the way, was totally different from what I was always told they believed!) I started taking classes that met weekly, sort of like Sunday School. Plus I met with the Priest and asked ALOT of questions. But most importantly I prayed: Lead me Lord, and I will follow. At Easter, I was received into the Church. It was one of the happiest days of my life because I was able to receive my Savior in the Eucharist.
     
  10. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (goldy;22172)
    I disagree......Mary brings us to Christ."No Mary, No Jesus" -Mother Teresa of Calcutta
    Yeah, but that does not make Mary right up there with Jesus or God.God chose her, yes. But He could've chosen anyone. Mary just bore Jesus.Jesus is the main guy here.And yes, Mary being sinless would indeed ruin the whole point of Jesus. And would contradict important scriptures, and doctrines, that all are sinful apart from Jesus. It's not biblical at all to place a belief that Mary was sinless.
     
  11. Peacebewithyou

    Peacebewithyou New Member

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    It's true, Mary was filled with God's Grace - so she was sinless (washed clean) - but it was because of Jesus - not apart from Him. And you are right - Jesus IS the main guy here. She is by no means right up there with God - Catholics do not teach that she is. Does she deserve honor? Sure. Worship? Never. Could we discuss a specific verse that would contradict her being sinless?
     
  12. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;22208)
    (goldy;22172)
    (thesuperjag;22095)
    I Peter 2:22, II Corinthians 5:21, Hebrews 4:15 all scriptures that says Christ was without sin.To say Mary was sinless ruins the world point of Christ as Saviour of the world.Jag
    I disagree......Mary brings us to Christ."No Mary, No Jesus"-Mother Teresa of CalcuttaYeah, but that does not make Mary right up there with Jesus or God.God chose her, yes. But He could've chosen anyone. Mary just bore Jesus.Jesus is the main guy here.And yes, Mary being sinless would indeed ruin the whole point of Jesus. And would contradict important scriptures, and doctrines, that all are sinful apart from Jesus. It's not biblical at all to place a belief that Mary was sinless.See, you just recognize this false teaching. That's why discernment is real important.Jag
     
  13. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    I just don't get it. Because if it clearly contradicts scriptures in several different places so significantly, then why do people still believe it?It's one thing to not believe in God for lack of proof or to not have faith, but to believe something so clearly contradictory to scripture, something so clearly contradictory to what Jesus was all about, I just don't understand.
     
  14. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    Could we discuss a specific verse that would contradict her being sinless?
    I was referring to Mary having not sinned.Being "washed clean" because of Jesus is a totally different thing. All who admit their sins to God, and do that whole thing are "washed clean".And sure, honor Mary. Yeah, mary was probably pretty cool.But we should honor her no more than we would honor Abraham, or David, or Moses, or Job. They were all great too! And we don't even know that much about Mary, just that she bore Jesus.
     
  15. Christina

    Christina New Member

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    There is only one Word of God he is the same Yesterday, Today and TomarrowALL YES ALL RELIGIOUS DENNOMINATIONS are of MEN by MEN for MEN they are not of Gods design God merley says when two or more are gathered together in MY NAME, HIS NAME you are at church no religious traditions required, no mary, no confessions,no tongues,no certain dress, no certain prayers,no fancy buildings, no money changers
     
  16. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (ps77;22212)
    I just don't get it. Because if it clearly contradicts scriptures in several different places so significantly, then why do people still believe it?It's one thing to not believe in God for lack of proof or to not have faith, but to believe something so clearly contradictory to scripture, something so clearly contradictory to what Jesus was all about, I just don't understand.
    That's easy, because people are either completely misled by people teaching men doctrines, or are completely ignorant to the Word of God. There will always be people misleading people. Christ is the only one to save us from our sins.Jag
     
  17. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    I “stumbled” upon this brief writing:“The teaching of the Immaculate Conception has the appearance of being a teaching sublimely beautiful; but it hides Jesus from our view.So completely does it hide Him, that multitudes have no idea who Jesus is, while they think they know Him.This incorrect idea severs the link that binds the Virgin Mary to humanity because it declares that when the fetus of the Virgin Mary was in the womb of her mother, God worked a miracle (the Bible says nothing about this!) that broke the DNA or genetic link that has bound every person on earth to Adam.Thus in one stroke this “dogma” denies the fundamental truth of the Bible that says, “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. ...” (John 3:16). Thus it says in effect that God did not give Him to us; God kept Him back by breaking this genetic link to humanity. The Virgin Mary is thus some kind of a new creature that God made, but who was separate from humanity.If that’s all there were to this “dogma” of Immaculate Conception, the human race might not feel bad because of it: it would simply be that here’s one woman different from any other woman. That’s all.But wait a moment: The problem is that this “dogma” also means that her Son, Jesus Christ, has been separated from humanity by having that DNA or genetic link broken; thus He is not a human being at all. He too is some new creature that God created independent of a genetic link to humanity.Thus it says that He doesn’t know how you feel deep down; He cannot be tempted “like” as you are tempted. This dogma denies multitudes of Bible statements that tell us how close Jesus is to all of us, how real He is.Don’t let anyone or any organization, no matter how powerful or wealthy it might be, rob you of the Savior whom you need, and who rightfully has been given to you, and is yours.” End of Writing. Jake
     
  18. ps77

    ps77 New Member

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    (preciousmessage;22223)
    I “stumbled” upon this brief writing:“The teaching of the Immaculate Conception has the appearance of being a teaching sublimely beautiful; but it hides Jesus from our view.So completely does it hide Him, that multitudes have no idea who Jesus is, while they think they know Him.This incorrect idea severs the link that binds the Virgin Mary to humanity because it declares that when the fetus of the Virgin Mary was in the womb of her mother, God worked a miracle (the Bible says nothing about this!) that broke the DNA or genetic link that has bound every person on earth to Adam.Thus in one stroke this “dogma” denies the fundamental truth of the Bible that says, “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. ...” (John 3:16). Thus it says in effect that God did not give Him to us; God kept Him back by breaking this genetic link to humanity. The Virgin Mary is thus some kind of a new creature that God made, but who was separate from humanity.If that’s all there were to this “dogma” of Immaculate Conception, the human race might not feel bad because of it: it would simply be that here’s one woman different from any other woman. That’s all.But wait a moment: The problem is that this “dogma” also means that her Son, Jesus Christ, has been separated from humanity by having that DNA or genetic link broken; thus He is not a human being at all. He too is some new creature that God created independent of a genetic link to humanity.Thus it says that He doesn’t know how you feel deep down; He cannot be tempted “like” as you are tempted. This dogma denies multitudes of Bible statements that tell us how close Jesus is to all of us, how real He is.Don’t let anyone or any organization, no matter how powerful or wealthy it might be, rob you of the Savior whom you need, and who rightfully has been given to you, and is yours.” End of Writing. Jake
    God did not have to break the DNA genetic link.He could've copied it. I mean, come on. He's God. Did you not think of that?I do not doubt that Jesus was fully man, and fully God at the same time. There is no contradiction of scripture here.
    He too is some new creature that God created independent of a genetic link to humanity.
    Mary had other children, but she had them regularly. Jesus did not father any children.And it wouldn't matter if we are to assume that God copied the very same DNA.
     
  19. Jordan

    Jordan Active Member

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    (preciousmessage;22223)
    I “stumbled” upon this brief writing:“The teaching of the Immaculate Conception has the appearance of being a teaching sublimely beautiful; but it hides Jesus from our view.So completely does it hide Him, that multitudes have no idea who Jesus is, while they think they know Him.This incorrect idea severs the link that binds the Virgin Mary to humanity because it declares that when the fetus of the Virgin Mary was in the womb of her mother, God worked a miracle (the Bible says nothing about this!) that broke the DNA or genetic link that has bound every person on earth to Adam.Thus in one stroke this “dogma” denies the fundamental truth of the Bible that says, “God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. ...” (John 3:16). Thus it says in effect that God did not give Him to us; God kept Him back by breaking this genetic link to humanity. The Virgin Mary is thus some kind of a new creature that God made, but who was separate from humanity.If that’s all there were to this “dogma” of Immaculate Conception, the human race might not feel bad because of it: it would simply be that here’s one woman different from any other woman. That’s all.But wait a moment: The problem is that this “dogma” also means that her Son, Jesus Christ, has been separated from humanity by having that DNA or genetic link broken; thus He is not a human being at all. He too is some new creature that God created independent of a genetic link to humanity.Thus it says that He doesn’t know how you feel deep down; He cannot be tempted “like” as you are tempted. This dogma denies multitudes of Bible statements that tell us how close Jesus is to all of us, how real He is.Don’t let anyone or any organization, no matter how powerful or wealthy it might be, rob you of the Savior whom you need, and who rightfully has been given to you, and is yours.” End of Writing. Jake
    Their teaching is so wrong. They need to get out of there.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Jag
     
  20. preciousmessage

    preciousmessage New Member

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    (ps77;22224)
    God did not have to break the DNA genetic link.He could've copied it. I mean, come on. He's God. Did you not think of that?I do not doubt that Jesus was fully man, and fully God at the same time. There is no contradiction of scripture here.Mary had other children, but she had them regularly. Jesus did not father any children.And it wouldn't matter if we are to assume that God copied the very same DNA.
    I believe it's possible your missing the point of the writing. If you choose me to clarify for you, I would be honored. Jake
     
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