A new Catholic perspective
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preciousmessage
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- Oct 28, 2007
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(thesuperjag;22226)
Their teaching is so wrong. They need to get out of there.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Jag
Thanks Jag, one of my favorite scriptures, if there can be such a thing! ...I have shared my belief concerning the soul. A few posts are sufficient, we have reached an impasse, so be it, I'll move on to a new topic. But there are some things that never seemingly end and will not be resolved into a unifying faith. If we deny the closeness of our Saviour, then we are most miserable. "If Christ had not been made in all things like unto his brethren, then His sinless life would be no encouragement to us. WE might look at it with admiration, but it would be the admiration that would cause hopeless despair."Jake
Their teaching is so wrong. They need to get out of there.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.Jag
Thanks Jag, one of my favorite scriptures, if there can be such a thing! ...I have shared my belief concerning the soul. A few posts are sufficient, we have reached an impasse, so be it, I'll move on to a new topic. But there are some things that never seemingly end and will not be resolved into a unifying faith. If we deny the closeness of our Saviour, then we are most miserable. "If Christ had not been made in all things like unto his brethren, then His sinless life would be no encouragement to us. WE might look at it with admiration, but it would be the admiration that would cause hopeless despair."Jake
(goldy;22166)
First of all, do you think we worship the pope or something? Next, of course you don't value the Papacy.........YOU'RE PROTESTANT!!! You probably don't value the pope anymore than I value some Joe the televangelist.As for calling no man father, please refer to these passages (there are many more, but I will just name a few), Luke 16:24, what does the rich man refer to Abraham as? Did he get it wrong too? What about Acts 7:2, did St. Stephen get this wrong too? What about Acts 21:40, 22:1? Did St. Paul get this one wrong too? And you will notice right after Jesus says call no man father, he also says call no man teacher. Do you know what the word "doctor" means? It means Teacher, in Latin. So therefore, any Protestant megachurch who has a pastor who has a doctorate in theology is going against Scripture.......according to this line of thinking. Perhaps the silliest argument to this passage is, what do you call the man who gave you birth? If you say, "my father", you just went against Scripture!! This argument is very shallow and weak. Jesus is simply using hyperbole in this passage to reiterate that it's important to put no human person above Him.
There is a difference between father and holy father. The pope is called the holy father. There is only one Holy Father, and that is the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven.A simple google search ("holy father") brought these articles up:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htmhttp://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fatherhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popehttp://tldm.org/news/vision_of_jacinta.htmhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/gregory/life_rule.htmlThe pope is far from holy. He's a sinful man, and he is the head of the Catholic church. The pope is an antichrist.
First of all, do you think we worship the pope or something? Next, of course you don't value the Papacy.........YOU'RE PROTESTANT!!! You probably don't value the pope anymore than I value some Joe the televangelist.As for calling no man father, please refer to these passages (there are many more, but I will just name a few), Luke 16:24, what does the rich man refer to Abraham as? Did he get it wrong too? What about Acts 7:2, did St. Stephen get this wrong too? What about Acts 21:40, 22:1? Did St. Paul get this one wrong too? And you will notice right after Jesus says call no man father, he also says call no man teacher. Do you know what the word "doctor" means? It means Teacher, in Latin. So therefore, any Protestant megachurch who has a pastor who has a doctorate in theology is going against Scripture.......according to this line of thinking. Perhaps the silliest argument to this passage is, what do you call the man who gave you birth? If you say, "my father", you just went against Scripture!! This argument is very shallow and weak. Jesus is simply using hyperbole in this passage to reiterate that it's important to put no human person above Him.
There is a difference between father and holy father. The pope is called the holy father. There is only one Holy Father, and that is the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven.A simple google search ("holy father") brought these articles up:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htmhttp://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fatherhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popehttp://tldm.org/news/vision_of_jacinta.htmhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/gregory/life_rule.htmlThe pope is far from holy. He's a sinful man, and he is the head of the Catholic church. The pope is an antichrist.
preciousmessage
New Member
- Oct 28, 2007
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(ps77;22229)
Sure, go for it!
Paul states, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." Romans 1:3. In other words, Jesus Christ was not just a "replica" or "copy" of humanity. The word "seed" in the original is sperma. Therefore, "It behooved [Christ] to made like unto His brethren. ... He is able to succor them that are tempted," "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 2:17, 18 and 4:15. The only flesh there is in this world that Christ took is our same nature. As I stated, Romans 1:3, "seed" is sperm, which means full genetic. The word translated "flesh" is sarx, which denotes the common flesh or nature which all fallen descendants of Adam possess. In contrast, Rome sees the virgin Mary as a replica that was "exempt" and "desolidarized" from our genetic inheritance, so that she could give to her Son an "exempt" sinless flesh and a sinless nature.Defending the Immaculate Conception Fulton Sheen states, "...How could [Christ] be sinless if He was born of sinladen humanity? ... If He came to this earth through the wheatfield of moral weakness, He certainly would have some chaff hanging on the garment of His human nature" End QuoteHowever the Bible makes it clear, Christ was sent "in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh" Romans 8:3. Jesus Christ tackled and condemned sin, right where it was at, in our flesh, which He took. Only humanity can redeem humanity. Christ did not come to simply make us "better" but that we would die with Him. And now, He does the work in us, we are to believe and "let" Him do it. And remember, likeness does not mean unlikeness. In the same Greek dative case in Philippians 2:7, where he says that Christ was "made ... in the likeness of men" the word cannot mean mere appearance or outward form. That would be the teaching of Docetism (which denies the true humanity of Christ). It would be unnecessary and even impossible for Christ to "condemn sin" in sinless flesh, it would be meaningless to us. The apostle Paul states, "I determined not to know anything amongst you, except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Everything that Paul speaks of concerns the genuine gospel. There is only one gospel, any other is a false gospel. Jake
Sure, go for it!
Paul states, "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh." Romans 1:3. In other words, Jesus Christ was not just a "replica" or "copy" of humanity. The word "seed" in the original is sperma. Therefore, "It behooved [Christ] to made like unto His brethren. ... He is able to succor them that are tempted," "in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." Hebrews 2:17, 18 and 4:15. The only flesh there is in this world that Christ took is our same nature. As I stated, Romans 1:3, "seed" is sperm, which means full genetic. The word translated "flesh" is sarx, which denotes the common flesh or nature which all fallen descendants of Adam possess. In contrast, Rome sees the virgin Mary as a replica that was "exempt" and "desolidarized" from our genetic inheritance, so that she could give to her Son an "exempt" sinless flesh and a sinless nature.Defending the Immaculate Conception Fulton Sheen states, "...How could [Christ] be sinless if He was born of sinladen humanity? ... If He came to this earth through the wheatfield of moral weakness, He certainly would have some chaff hanging on the garment of His human nature" End QuoteHowever the Bible makes it clear, Christ was sent "in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh" Romans 8:3. Jesus Christ tackled and condemned sin, right where it was at, in our flesh, which He took. Only humanity can redeem humanity. Christ did not come to simply make us "better" but that we would die with Him. And now, He does the work in us, we are to believe and "let" Him do it. And remember, likeness does not mean unlikeness. In the same Greek dative case in Philippians 2:7, where he says that Christ was "made ... in the likeness of men" the word cannot mean mere appearance or outward form. That would be the teaching of Docetism (which denies the true humanity of Christ). It would be unnecessary and even impossible for Christ to "condemn sin" in sinless flesh, it would be meaningless to us. The apostle Paul states, "I determined not to know anything amongst you, except Jesus Christ and Him crucified." Everything that Paul speaks of concerns the genuine gospel. There is only one gospel, any other is a false gospel. Jake
(preciousmessage;22231)
(thesuperjag;22226)
Their teaching is so wrong. They need to get out of there.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Jag
Thanks Jag, one of my favorite scriptures, if there can be such a thing! ...I have shared my belief concerning the soul. A few posts are sufficient, we have reached an impasse, so be it, I'll move on to a new topic. But there are some things that never seemingly end and will not be resolved into a unifying faith. If we deny the closeness of our Saviour, then we are most miserable. "If Christ had not been made in all things like unto his brethren, then His sinless life would be no encouragement to us. WE might look at it with admiration, but it would be the admiration that would cause hopeless despair." JakeI have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
(thesuperjag;22226)
Their teaching is so wrong. They need to get out of there.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. Jag
Thanks Jag, one of my favorite scriptures, if there can be such a thing! ...I have shared my belief concerning the soul. A few posts are sufficient, we have reached an impasse, so be it, I'll move on to a new topic. But there are some things that never seemingly end and will not be resolved into a unifying faith. If we deny the closeness of our Saviour, then we are most miserable. "If Christ had not been made in all things like unto his brethren, then His sinless life would be no encouragement to us. WE might look at it with admiration, but it would be the admiration that would cause hopeless despair." JakeI have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
preciousmessage
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- Oct 28, 2007
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(thesuperjag;22241)
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
And that's why the reformers were raised by God after the Dark Ages, they were the closest to the false teachings of Rome, for many were Priests that left the Roman Catholic Church and the false teachings of the soul going straight to heaven after death. Go back to their writings, for God preserved them for a reason. They were in line with the scripture. "The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work" End Quote. Jake
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
And that's why the reformers were raised by God after the Dark Ages, they were the closest to the false teachings of Rome, for many were Priests that left the Roman Catholic Church and the false teachings of the soul going straight to heaven after death. Go back to their writings, for God preserved them for a reason. They were in line with the scripture. "The Lord has declared that the history of the past shall be rehearsed as we enter upon the closing work" End Quote. Jake
(Wakka;22236)
There is a difference between father and holy father. The pope is called the holy father. There is only one Holy Father, and that is the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven.A simple google search ("holy father") brought these articles up:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htmhttp://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fatherhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popehttp://tldm.org/news/vision_of_jacinta.htmhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/gregory/life_rule.htmlThe pope is far from holy. He's a sinful man, and he is the head of the Catholic church. The pope is an antichrist.
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
There is a difference between father and holy father. The pope is called the holy father. There is only one Holy Father, and that is the Lord sitting on his throne in heaven.A simple google search ("holy father") brought these articles up:http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/index.htmhttp://www.vatican.va/phome_en.htmhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Fatherhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popehttp://tldm.org/news/vision_of_jacinta.htmhttp://www.ccel.org/ccel/gregory/life_rule.htmlThe pope is far from holy. He's a sinful man, and he is the head of the Catholic church. The pope is an antichrist.
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
(thesuperjag;22241)
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
Regarding purgatory, bring this up on another thread. Contrary to your belief, it is biblical. I believe I can definitely back it up.
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8) Jag
Regarding purgatory, bring this up on another thread. Contrary to your belief, it is biblical. I believe I can definitely back it up.
(goldy;22265)
(thesuperjag;22241)
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8)
Regarding purgatory, bring this up on another thread. Contrary to your belief, it is biblical. I believe I can definitely back it up.Verily, verily, I say unto thee, no where did Yahshua say anything about purgeatory, nowhere did the bible in the OT nor in the NT say anything about it.It's all men's invention to replace Christ for the instead of Christ . (anti-Christ)John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?Jag
(thesuperjag;22241)
I have no need to deny my Saviour. To live without Christ means despair, hopeless, and to die in sins. According to the souls discussion we had, I have also no need to lean on to Roman teaching, especially the whole "purgeatory" teaching. Dead wrong and unbiblical. No souls died yet for the Lake of Fire (Revelation 20:14) (which is the second death) is not yet created and it comes after Satan is out for a little season after the Mellineum Age (Revelation 20:3, Revelation 20:7-8)
Regarding purgatory, bring this up on another thread. Contrary to your belief, it is biblical. I believe I can definitely back it up.Verily, verily, I say unto thee, no where did Yahshua say anything about purgeatory, nowhere did the bible in the OT nor in the NT say anything about it.It's all men's invention to replace Christ for the instead of Christ . (anti-Christ)John 14:9 - Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?Jag
(goldy;22264)
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
Claiming one certain church to have the fullness of truth is on the verge of having an arrogant attitude. And a superiority complex towards other churches that teach the word of God.That, my friend, is unbiblical.Because you can trace your history pretty far back, doesn't necessarily mean you are still holding true to the word of God alone. I'm not making a claim there, but you can't base your validity and truth due to tradition and history in all cases. There have been faults in the church before, and the Roman Catholic church is not an exception. You mix the word of God with tradition. Tradition is nice to some, but to teach that it alone is the fullness of the truth of God. That your religion is better than someone else's. Tradition is not of equal or greater importance than the teaching of the Bible.Keeping in mind there are lots of things from all kinds of churches, that other churches would claim unbiblical.I wish we could all come to an agreement when it comes to stuff like this, that there could finally be unity and consistency in the church. Theres no need for all these denominations. There coming up faster than new rappers.
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
Claiming one certain church to have the fullness of truth is on the verge of having an arrogant attitude. And a superiority complex towards other churches that teach the word of God.That, my friend, is unbiblical.Because you can trace your history pretty far back, doesn't necessarily mean you are still holding true to the word of God alone. I'm not making a claim there, but you can't base your validity and truth due to tradition and history in all cases. There have been faults in the church before, and the Roman Catholic church is not an exception. You mix the word of God with tradition. Tradition is nice to some, but to teach that it alone is the fullness of the truth of God. That your religion is better than someone else's. Tradition is not of equal or greater importance than the teaching of the Bible.Keeping in mind there are lots of things from all kinds of churches, that other churches would claim unbiblical.I wish we could all come to an agreement when it comes to stuff like this, that there could finally be unity and consistency in the church. Theres no need for all these denominations. There coming up faster than new rappers.
(goldy;22264)
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
Christ is the leader of the church, and naming the pope Holy Father is blasphemous. Learn the definition of Holy. Because man is far from Holy.The pope may not be The Antichrist, but he certainly is a antichrist.
Hmmmm, I've never heard of any Catholic saying that the Pope was sinless. Of course he has sin!! He's also the head of the 1.2 billion strong Roman Catholic Church.......you know the one that gets traced right back to the apostles. That Church that contains the fullness of truth. "Holy Father" is simply a sign of reverance we give to him. We "respect" and "honor" him because he's the leader of the Church. I refuse to respond to anymore of your posts. Your talk is unbiblical and un-Christian. Calling the pope the antichrist is ridiculous and absurd, and you have absolutely nothing to back it up........period.
Christ is the leader of the church, and naming the pope Holy Father is blasphemous. Learn the definition of Holy. Because man is far from Holy.The pope may not be The Antichrist, but he certainly is a antichrist.
Peacebewithyou
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- Nov 6, 2007
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(Wakka;22282)
Christ is the leader of the church, and naming the pope Holy Father is blasphemous. Learn the definition of Holy. Because man is far from Holy.The pope may not be The Antichrist, but he certainly is a antichrist.
Man is sinful and apart from God, never holy. But when filled with the grace of God, holliness is something that not only can be attained, but something we should all strive for. This is what St. Paul had to say in his letter to the Romans: 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. And from the dictonary: Holy: –adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man. 3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life. 4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love. 5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic. 6. religious: holy rites. 7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: The director, when angry, is a holy terror. –noun 8. a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.The Pope is, indeed, a Holy Man. Perfect? Of course not. But because he's filled with the grace of His Savior Jesus Christ and totally devoted to His service, he is a Holy man.
Christ is the leader of the church, and naming the pope Holy Father is blasphemous. Learn the definition of Holy. Because man is far from Holy.The pope may not be The Antichrist, but he certainly is a antichrist.
Man is sinful and apart from God, never holy. But when filled with the grace of God, holliness is something that not only can be attained, but something we should all strive for. This is what St. Paul had to say in his letter to the Romans: 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. And from the dictonary: Holy: –adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man. 3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life. 4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love. 5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic. 6. religious: holy rites. 7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: The director, when angry, is a holy terror. –noun 8. a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.The Pope is, indeed, a Holy Man. Perfect? Of course not. But because he's filled with the grace of His Savior Jesus Christ and totally devoted to His service, he is a Holy man.
(Peacebewithyou;22286)
Man is sinful and apart from God, never holy. But when filled with the grace of God, holliness is something that not only can be attained, but something we should all strive for. This is what St. Paul had to say in his letter to the Romans: 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. And from the dictonary: Holy: –adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man. 3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life. 4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love. 5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic. 6. religious: holy rites. 7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: The director, when angry, is a holy terror. –noun 8. a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.The Pope is, indeed, a Holy Man. Perfect? Of course not. But because he's filled with the grace of His Savior Jesus Christ and totally devoted to His service, he is a Holy man.
The pope is a type of antichrist actually. No denominations are of God, they are all created by men. Yahshua warns us to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Saducees" (Matthew 16:6) "Beware of false Christ (Matthew 24:5), "Beware of false prophet in sheep clothing, but are wolves" (Matthew 7:15)II Corinthians 11:4 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Jag
Man is sinful and apart from God, never holy. But when filled with the grace of God, holliness is something that not only can be attained, but something we should all strive for. This is what St. Paul had to say in his letter to the Romans: 19I speak after the manner of men because of the infirmity of your flesh: for as ye have yielded your members servants to uncleanness and to iniquity unto iniquity; even so now yield your members servants to righteousness unto holiness. 20For when ye were the servants of sin, ye were free from righteousness. 21What fruit had ye then in those things whereof ye are now ashamed? for the end of those things is death. 22But now being made free from sin, and become servants to God, ye have your fruit unto holiness, and the end everlasting life. And from the dictonary: Holy: –adjective 1. specially recognized as or declared sacred by religious use or authority; consecrated: holy ground. 2. dedicated or devoted to the service of God, the church, or religion: a holy man. 3. saintly; godly; pious; devout: a holy life. 4. having a spiritually pure quality: a holy love. 5. entitled to worship or veneration as or as if sacred: a holy relic. 6. religious: holy rites. 7. inspiring fear, awe, or grave distress: The director, when angry, is a holy terror. –noun 8. a place of worship; sacred place; sanctuary.The Pope is, indeed, a Holy Man. Perfect? Of course not. But because he's filled with the grace of His Savior Jesus Christ and totally devoted to His service, he is a Holy man.
The pope is a type of antichrist actually. No denominations are of God, they are all created by men. Yahshua warns us to "beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and the Saducees" (Matthew 16:6) "Beware of false Christ (Matthew 24:5), "Beware of false prophet in sheep clothing, but are wolves" (Matthew 7:15)II Corinthians 11:4 - And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.Jag
Hi goldy,On the topic of honoring Mary. Where in the Bible did it actually say we are to do that? I did not read anything from Jesus or the letters to the early churches that suggest it, but I have read scriptures that says otherwise.Luke 11: 27And it came to pass, as he spake these things, a certain woman of the company lifted up her voice, and said unto him, Blessed is the womb that bare thee, and the paps which thou hast sucked.28But he said, Yea rather, blessed are they that hear the word of God, and keep it. Jesus answered "Yea", because He was honoring His mother as He was supposed to, as all children are supposed to honor their mother and their father, but noticed how He redirected that woman's focus from blessing Mary to hearing the Word of God and keeping it. That is significant as in "Yea rather.."Why is that? This is why. This is how we shall be judged in matters pertaining to God.John 5: 22For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him. So the moment they think they are doing what God wants them to do by honoring Mary when they were not commanded to do so ( as if Mary singing in her magnificat means it was a commandment about how generations will call her blessed ) and yet here we are commanded not to honor Mary, because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.Is it really that important? The moment you cease to acknowledge the Son, you deny the Father.1 John 2: 18Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. 19They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us. 20But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things. 21I have not written unto you because ye know not the truth, but because ye know it, and that no lie is of the truth. 22Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son. 23Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. 24Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father. 25And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life. 26These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. 27But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him. 28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming. 29If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that every one that doeth righteousness is born of him.It is said that "anti-christ" means "instead of Christ". Now I know that many Christian churches and believers think that we are to honor Mary, but scriptures plainly says not to. The fact that you believe we are not to worship her, goes to show that you may yet perceive the error that is in the Catholic Church for it is written that they do exalt Mary up there with God and given her the title as the Queen of Heaven. You should have heard the repetitious prayer given to her as it begins with "Hail Mary, full of grace.." which is known as the "rosary" prayer, yes? So I am not sure how you can say they do not worship her at all if you have seen and heard these practises as if Mary can mediate as if she is "god", irregardless if you or your church does not do this.1 Timothy 2: 5For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus; Anything that comes between us and Jesus is the thief, be it Mary, or the priest for the forgiveness of sins, or the Church as if we have to go through "her" to Jesus.John 10: 1Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber. 2But he that entereth in by the door is the shepherd of the sheep....7Then said Jesus unto them again, Verily, verily, I say unto you, I am the door of the sheep. 8All that ever came before me are thieves and robbers: but the sheep did not hear them. 9I am the door: by me if any man enter in, he shall be saved, and shall go in and out, and find pasture. 10The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly. 11I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. I read an article in the newspaper about a young man in a car accident. It was severe enough that he was calling for a priest as he was in a panic to have his sins forgiven. The priest could not arrive in time, but it was not neccessary as the hospital were able to save him. When the young man relayed his fears to the priest about God not able to hear him to forgive him of his sins, the priest relayed his fears by saying that God did hear and forgave him. That was the gist of it as I can only imagine the young man exploding, "Why have I been coming to you for all my life?!!" But he probably didn't. The point is, by having someone else inbetween himself and Jesus, his peace was stolen by that thief. What if he had died? I'm sure everyone would have felt sorry for him suffering needlessly, but that just doesn't cut it for a practise down here. We should all be free to come to Jesus. He loved us so much, He died for us while we were sinners. No greater love than that has come from Mary, nor the priest, but from Jesus, and yet why would catholics settle for second-best when Mary, the Pope, or the priest are not placed in that position by God to do so in the first place? The only sins they can forgive are the ones committed against them.Anyway, back to Mary. How important is that all should not honor Mary, but honor Jesus for that is the only way to Honor the Father? Not only are we going to be judged by that, but forces are already at work to steal the spotlight off of Jesus to developing followers of Mary. And to believe that the Roman Catholics do not teach this.. is to turn to the catechism for proof that they do in fact teach this."Being obedient she (Mary) became the cause of salvation for herself and for the whole human race." Pg. 125, #494 "Taken up to heaven she (Mary) did not lay aside this saving office but by her manifold intercession continues to bring us the gifts of eternal salvation..." Pg. 252, #969"She (Mary) is inseparably linked with the saving work of her Son." Pg. 303, #1172 "Therefore the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Helper, Benefactress, and Mediatrix." Pg. 252, #969“From the most ancient times the Blessed Virgin has been honored with the title of `Mother of God,' to whose protection the faithful fly in all their dangers and needs...” Pg. 253, #971 “By asking Mary to pray for us, we acknowledge ourselves to be poor sinners and we address ourselves to the 'Mother of Mercy,' the All-Holy One... May she welcome us as our mother at the hour of our passing to lead us to her son, Jesus, in paradise.” Pg. 644, #2677 "Finally the Immaculate Virgin, preserved free from all stain of original sin, when the course of her earthly life was finished, was taken up body and soul into heavenly glory, and exalted by the Lord as Queen over all things." Pg. 252, #966 Some catholics do not believe that Mary was sinless, but the catechism says she is. What of the Pope? "We declare, say, define, and pronounce that it is absolutely NECESSARY FOR the SALVATION of every human creature to be SUBJECT TO THE ROMAN PONTIFF (POPE)." --POPE BONIFACE VIII, BULL UNUN SANCTUM, 1302 "[We] hold upon this earth the place of God Almighty." --POPE LEO XIIIquoting THE GREAT ENCYCLICAL LETTERS OF POPE LEO XIIIp. 304, Benziger Brothers (1903) VIC'AR, n. [L. vicarius, from vicis] ...a substitute in office. Webster's 1828 DictionaryVicar of Christ. A substitute Christ..."For the Roman pontiff (pope), by reason of his office as VICAR OF CHRIST, and as pastor of the entire Church has full, supreme, and universal POWER over the whole Church, a power which he can always exercise UNHINDERED." --CATECHISM OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH, 1994, P. 254 #882I know that you mentioned that we are to do good works, but any work that denies Christ as being able, voids faith. To keep good work in perspective:Ephesians 2: 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. 1 John 3: 22And whatsoever we ask, we receive of him, because we keep his commandments, and do those things that are pleasing in his sight. 23And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment. 24And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.2 Corinthians 11: 3But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. 4For if he that cometh preacheth another Jesus, whom we have not preached, or if ye receive another spirit, which ye have not received, or another gospel, which ye have not accepted, ye might well bear with him. How can anyone say that receiving the Eucharist is not preaching another Jesus? Doing communion in remembrance of Him was to be done so as to rest in Him that we are His by the grace of God.. that is His glory as Saviour as well as the Good Shepherd as He leads us to love one another in following Him! Any work that is for salvation or to shorten one's stay in purgatory in order to get into Heaven is voiding faith in Him as being able. What's going to happen at the rapture? If you believe catholics get immediately taken up, then what purpose does purgatory serves? Like that young man in a severe car accident calling out for a priest to come for the forgiveness of sins, what would keep a catholic from drawing back from Him when He appears because he or she believes something else is needed in order to come to Him? If we are having that relationship with Christ, we'd be coming to Him now in prayers and in worship so we would not be drawing back because they have been led to believe that elsewhere is needed to relate to Him, but we don't. All invitations points to Jesus. Nowhere else.2 Corinthians 6: 14Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? 15And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? 6And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. 17Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you. 18And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.That Eucharist has become an idol and thus an unclean thing. I can only advise you to take this to the Lord Jesus in prayer and ask for guidance in this matter. He will help you.Hebrews 4: 9There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God. 10For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his. 11Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief. 12For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. 13Neither is there any creature that is not manifest in his sight: but all things are naked and opened unto the eyes of him with whom we have to do. 14Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession. 15For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin. 16Let us therefore come boldly unto the throne of grace, that we may obtain mercy, and find grace to help in time of need.
Peacebewithyou
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Catholics do not believe that a Priest forgives sins. Only God forgives sins. We confess to a Priest in light of the verse in the book of James: 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
Peacebewithyou
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(Pariah;22305)
So the moment they think they are doing what God wants them to do by honoring Mary when they were not commanded to do so ( as if Mary singing in her magnificat means it was a commandment about how generations will call her blessed ) and yet here we are commanded not to honor Mary, because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.
So by honoring Mary, Catholics are somehow no longer honoring Jesus??? Is that what you are trying to say? What about if I honor my own mother? Does that take away the honor from my Lord? What if I honor my husband? My children? There are lots of people in my life I honor besides God. Do you really believe He's jealous of the honor I give to others and we are to honor no one but Him? Or it is just His Blessed Mother you have a problem with?
So the moment they think they are doing what God wants them to do by honoring Mary when they were not commanded to do so ( as if Mary singing in her magnificat means it was a commandment about how generations will call her blessed ) and yet here we are commanded not to honor Mary, because the moment we stop honoring the Son, we are no longer honoring the Father.
So by honoring Mary, Catholics are somehow no longer honoring Jesus??? Is that what you are trying to say? What about if I honor my own mother? Does that take away the honor from my Lord? What if I honor my husband? My children? There are lots of people in my life I honor besides God. Do you really believe He's jealous of the honor I give to others and we are to honor no one but Him? Or it is just His Blessed Mother you have a problem with?
Honor is one thing we honor the aspostles we honer Moses,Enoch, John and as you say our parents or friends but we dont worship them pray to them make statues of them a lot of catholics reverance Mary some even above Jesus. I know this isnt all of them but the problem is it would be fine with leaders of the religion if all did. They treat her like a co-god and that is very dangerous.
(kriss;22313)
Honor is one thing we honor the aspostles we honer Moses,Enoch, John and as you say our parents or friends but we dont worship them pray to them make statues of them a lot of catholics reverance Mary some even above Jesus. I know this isnt all of them but the problem is it would be fine with leaders of the religion if all did. They treat her like a co-god and that is very dangerous.
Yeah, and Jesus isn't angry as to where Mary is right beside Him on His throne calming Him down. And a person has to pray to Mary to get something through to Jesus. I don't understand how some Catholics could believe this!
Honor is one thing we honor the aspostles we honer Moses,Enoch, John and as you say our parents or friends but we dont worship them pray to them make statues of them a lot of catholics reverance Mary some even above Jesus. I know this isnt all of them but the problem is it would be fine with leaders of the religion if all did. They treat her like a co-god and that is very dangerous.
Yeah, and Jesus isn't angry as to where Mary is right beside Him on His throne calming Him down. And a person has to pray to Mary to get something through to Jesus. I don't understand how some Catholics could believe this!
Hi Peacebewithyou,
Catholics do not believe that a Priest forgives sins. Only God forgives sins. We confess to a Priest in light of the verse in the book of James: 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
As I posted, it did not say to confess to a priest or anyone before Jesus. The only time we are to confess sins to one another if we committed them to that person to ask for forgiveness for the offense, but as for God forgiving us, we go to Jesus for that. That is what your verse above in the quote refers to as far as confess to each other. Do believers confess their sins to every other believer? And yet the Bible can be clear if we were to confess to a bishop, but your verse you's quoted, did not say that, did it? And if you do not believe that, why did the young man in that car accident believed he needed the priest for God to forgive him as he believed he was dying? Why do priest give a type of penance to the confessor to make up for the sin as if confessing was not enough? So how can a catholic not think they are going to a priest for the forgiveness of their sins if they look to do penance after confessing their sins to the priest to make up for it? And why and how does a repetitive prayer to Mary to a certain number be a way to absolve some sins when it is Jesus that cleanses us from all unrighteousness when we confess to Him one time?And yes,... by reading your catechism, you can really find out what the Catholic Church really believes."It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. Pg. 357, #1424 (See also Pg. 374, #1493). "Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ." Pg. 374, #1495 (See also Pg. 364 #1448) "Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance:" Pg. 365, #1456 *also priest serves as a mediator betwen God and man*; (See Pg. 365, #1456)"According to the Church's command, 'after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.'" Pg. 365, #1457 "The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as the second plank [of salvation]..." Pg. 363 #1446 "It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. Pg. 357, #1424 (See also Pg. 374, #1493)."One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience." Pg. 374, #1493So you need to take this to Jesus in prayer about leaving the Catholic Church if you want your faith to be known in Jesus Christ apart from the traditions that has crept into the Catholic Church that denies Him as the Only Mediator between God and man. There are other offenses by the Church that denies Him by dead works as voiding faith in Him as being able, but I'll stick with this one from your post on that topic. Onto the next one, God be willing.
Catholics do not believe that a Priest forgives sins. Only God forgives sins. We confess to a Priest in light of the verse in the book of James: 16Therefore confess your sins to each other and pray for each other so that you may be healed. The prayer of a righteous man is powerful and effective.
As I posted, it did not say to confess to a priest or anyone before Jesus. The only time we are to confess sins to one another if we committed them to that person to ask for forgiveness for the offense, but as for God forgiving us, we go to Jesus for that. That is what your verse above in the quote refers to as far as confess to each other. Do believers confess their sins to every other believer? And yet the Bible can be clear if we were to confess to a bishop, but your verse you's quoted, did not say that, did it? And if you do not believe that, why did the young man in that car accident believed he needed the priest for God to forgive him as he believed he was dying? Why do priest give a type of penance to the confessor to make up for the sin as if confessing was not enough? So how can a catholic not think they are going to a priest for the forgiveness of their sins if they look to do penance after confessing their sins to the priest to make up for it? And why and how does a repetitive prayer to Mary to a certain number be a way to absolve some sins when it is Jesus that cleanses us from all unrighteousness when we confess to Him one time?And yes,... by reading your catechism, you can really find out what the Catholic Church really believes."It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. Pg. 357, #1424 (See also Pg. 374, #1493). "Only priests who have received the faculty of absolving from the authority of the Church can forgive sins in the name of Christ." Pg. 374, #1495 (See also Pg. 364 #1448) "Confession to a priest is an essential part of the sacrament of Penance:" Pg. 365, #1456 *also priest serves as a mediator betwen God and man*; (See Pg. 365, #1456)"According to the Church's command, 'after having attained the age of discretion, each of the faithful is bound by an obligation faithfully to confess serious sins at least once a year.'" Pg. 365, #1457 "The Fathers of the Church present this sacrament as the second plank [of salvation]..." Pg. 363 #1446 "It is called the sacrament of confession, since the disclosure or confession of sins to a priest is an essential element of this sacrament. Pg. 357, #1424 (See also Pg. 374, #1493)."One who desires to obtain reconciliation with God and with the Church, must confess to a priest all the unconfessed grave sins he remembers after having carefully examined his conscience." Pg. 374, #1493So you need to take this to Jesus in prayer about leaving the Catholic Church if you want your faith to be known in Jesus Christ apart from the traditions that has crept into the Catholic Church that denies Him as the Only Mediator between God and man. There are other offenses by the Church that denies Him by dead works as voiding faith in Him as being able, but I'll stick with this one from your post on that topic. Onto the next one, God be willing.
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