a non-eschatological Coming?

[Timtofly]

Note this, brother:

Num 14.1 Nevertheless, as surely as I live and as surely as the glory of the Lord fills the whole earth, 22 not one of those who saw my glory and the signs I performed in Egypt and in the wilderness but who disobeyed me and tested me ten times— 23 not one of them will ever see the land I promised on oath to their ancestors. No one who has treated me with contempt will ever see it....
34 For forty years—one year for each of the forty days you explored the land—you will suffer for your sins and know what it is like to have me against you.’ 35 I, the Lord, have spoken, and I will surely do these things to this whole wicked community, which has banded together against me. They will meet their end in this wilderness; here they will die.”

Do you see what I'm saying. It wasn't that the whole generation of Moses would live until the time to enter Canaan and suddenly fall dead. Rather, over time they would all die until not one was left to enter into Canaan, with the exception of Joshua and Caleb.

It wasn't that Jesus wanted the whole of his generation to die in 70 AD, but that he was inflicting the same kind of judgment on his generation as was inflicted upon Moses' generation. Indeed, it was 40 years after Jesus said this, just as the wilderness judgment lasted 40 years.

No, the 40 years in the wilderness had to do with another 40 day period.

The 40 years between the Cross and 70AD had to do with nothing but the passing of time. There was no judgment of God declared in 70AD, because that was not the point of "this generation". "This generation" was tied to the blooming of the fig tree, not any judgment placed on the fig tree. The fig tree was cursed prior to even the Cross in anticipation of the Cross. 70AD just happened to be 40 years after the Cross. My point about Exodus was 40 years of punishment for those 40 days. It was plenty of time to kill off 2 generations. Many want to point to Exodus and say, "see here is an example of 40 years being a generation". It is not. 40 years was a judgment to kill off 2 generations. Even those 20 years old at the time the 40 years started, all died in the wilderness. So those 20 years old, and their parents, the generation before them all died except Joshua and Caleb.

Please explain how there were not some in age 20 to 60 who heard the OD. That could cover 3 generations. So which is "this generation" of the 3 who were present who heard those words. Even those at 20 were not guaranteed to live until 60. The age expectancy was 35.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

a singularly dangerous declaration, imo

Well I won't stand before gods based on your opinion, but what the Word says! If I am missing something- show me, otherwise your prepubescent insults and vagueries mean little.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I don't agree. You can't say a coming of Jesus in judgment and deny there was a coming at the same time. You are very much a Partial Preterist and I'm not the only one to recognize this fact.

No, I'm not a Partial Preterist. And yes, I can see Jesus identify with a Coming of God in judgment without his referring to his 2nd Coming! If you can't see that, we should discuss that? It might change your own conception? It certainly did mine!

A coming is a physical and visible arrival. What you cited is not a coming. The first and second coming were physical comings/arrivals. There is no coming at all in 70AD. Jesus was not there and didn't need to be there. He was in heaven when that happened.

Well yea, sort of. That's kind of what I've been trying to say, that Jesus re-directed expectation of an imminent Coming to a completely different kind of "coming." I agree--the "coming" I'm referring to is not the kind of "Coming" you're referring to. But I insist that Jesus used it to compare with his Coming in glory, to show that a different kind of "coming of God" in judgment was the thing that was more important to prepare for at that time.

Revelation is very much a book that tells us of future events. None of the above is true. It is also a picture perfect example of what a Partial Preterist would say about Revelation as they think it all happened in the past except the second coming!

I'm just amazed at how important it seems to be with you and others that I be identified with a PP! Well, I'm not and I've proven it over and over. I doubt I'm going to change minds that are already made up, even when confronted with the facts. I do *not* believe the book of Revelation is about the past, about the time of the ancient Roman Empire. I believe it focuses on the last 3.5 years of this present age, with the rise of Antichrist and the persecution of the Church. And clearly, I believe in a literal 2nd Coming, of Jesus in *person,* and not just as a coming of God in judgment, such as happened in 70 AD.

 

[bbyrd009]

Surely there are many different languages in the world; are any of them meaningless? But if i dont know the meaning of someone’s language, i am as foreign to him as he is to me, right?

YOu are speaking of the varied languages while I am speaking specifically of the gift of tongues Whether it be tongues of men or of angels as Paul said.

10Assuredly, there are many different languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.
11If, then, I do not know the meaning of someone’s language, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me.
12It is the same with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, strive to excel in gifts that build up the church.

sorry, got called away; was gonna add to this, but maybe ill just let it stand for itself

 

[Ronald Nolette]

10Assuredly, there are many different languages in the world, yet none of them is without meaning.
11If, then, I do not know the meaning of someone’s language, I am a foreigner to the speaker, and he is a foreigner to me.
12It is the same with you. Since you are eager to have spiritual gifts, strive to excel in gifts that build up the church.

See I can go to class and learn multiple languages, but that is not the gift of tongues. the gift is for sharing the good news, not for simply day to day communication. If you want to believe that- knock yourself out! It's wrong, but you have the privilege of being as wrong as you wish.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Please explain how there were not some in age 20 to 60 who heard the OD. That could cover 3 generations. So which is "this generation" of the 3 who were present who heard those words. Even those at 20 were not guaranteed to live until 60. The age expectancy was 35.

Jesus said that his generation--the one who rejected him--would see the fall of the temple system, and the fall of Jerusalem. It would be when an Abomination of Desolation, ie the Roman Army, surrounded Jerusalem, standing in the holy place, ie in the territory in which Jerusalem and the temple were.

What Jesus apparently meant is that the last person alive when he was around would still be around when this judgment falls. It did not mean that those alive in Jesus' time would all see this judgment--just that they would all die and not exhaust everybody alive when Jesus said these words.

In other words, this was all about time. Jesus said the last one alive when he prophesied this would not die before it came to pass. It was clearly a judgment that would be put off for as long as possible to save the very generation he died for. But ultimately, the generation would not get away before they would be judged for rejecting him. This was about not letting that generation off before judgment fell, even though it was put off as long as possible.

 

[ScottA]

@Timtofly

Jesus said that his generation--the one who rejected him--would see the fall of the temple system, and the fall of Jerusalem. It would be when an Abomination of Desolation, ie the Roman Army, surrounded Jerusalem, standing in the holy place, ie in the territory in which Jerusalem and the temple were.

What Jesus apparently meant is that the last person alive when he was around would still be around when this judgment falls. It did not mean that those alive in Jesus' time would all see this judgment--just that they would all die and not exhaust everybody alive when Jesus said these words.

In other words, this was all about time. Jesus said the last one alive when he prophesied this would not die before it came to pass. It was clearly a judgment that would be put off for as long as possible to save the very generation he died for. But ultimately, the generation would not get away before they would be judged for rejecting him. This was about not letting that generation off before judgment fell, even though it was put off as long as possible.

That explanation of the abomination of desolation would be pretty unconvincing to someone who thinks it is yet in the future.

I keep repeating it, but "the abomination that makes desolation" is also that "great tribulation" spoken of. In either case, it is rather the crucifixion of Christ, the one-time sacrifice that puts an end to the daily sacrifice, in that holy place, that trumps all other abominations and tribulations--and it is He who is the End, saying "It is finished."

Whoever believes that is not enough and looks for something more--has missed the mark completely.

 

[bbyrd009]

Wow you sound more indefinite that an evoutionary scientist.

we're tired of this manna, give us some meat to eat!

See I can go to class and learn multiple languages, but that is not the gift of tongues. the gift is for sharing the good news, not for simply day to day communication. If you want to believe that- knock yourself out! It's wrong, but you have the privilege of being as wrong as you wish.

ok, ty

 

[Randy Kluth]

or iow there is surely a disconnect of understanding because the word (eternal, eternity) is defined incorrectly to us
or, there does not have to be a disconnect in our understanding; it is self-inflicted, by choice

Yes, if we don't wish to believe God's communication to us, we find ourselves unable to get the true picture. I do this when I fail to listen to God's guidance, when He shows me that I'm getting "over my skis," so to speak. The confusion that results is indeed "self-inflicted."

 

[Randy Kluth]

aion: a space of time, an age

so no offense but that is almost completely self-inflicted imo, although granted the Bible helps a little there i guess

I like to see God's infinite revelation in arithmetic examples. God's infinite Word is like an endless line, with no beginning and no end. But when He communicates on a finite level to us, He reveals to us only a segment of that line. In seeing just that segment we're still able to see God Himself, even as an infinite Being. We don't have to see all of Him to know Him. We don't have to understand everything to hear His word to us. This is where the infinite word of God intersects with his finite revelation to us, where HIs word becomes recognizable to us.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I think that is stretching "interpreting" beyond where it should og.

One is dreams and the other is language. They may both be interpretations but for vastly different things, and dreams were not a gift given by the Spirit to edify Israel.

Yes and no. Yes, interpreting dreams is not the same thing as interpreting tongues. But no, I do believe dreams were given as a gift to edify Israel.

Paul used the OT example of Israel's capitulation to enemies with foreign tongues to explain that NT tongues is the capitulation of our own carnal selves to heavenly language. We turn our carnal selves over to God so that we speak and act like children of God.

So here, the OT example of tongues is indeed very different from the NT version of the same. You're right about that.

 

[Randy Kluth]

@Timtofly
That explanation of the abomination of desolation would be pretty unconvincing to someone who thinks it is yet in the future.

I keep repeating it, but "the abomination that makes desolation" is also that "great tribulation" spoken of. In either case, it is rather the crucifixion of Christ, the one-time sacrifice that puts an end to the daily sacrifice, in that holy place, that trumps all other abominations and tribulations--and it is He who is the End, saying "It is finished."

Whoever believes that is not enough and looks for something more--has missed the mark completely.

Why do you get so "touchy" when we disagree on something? Can't we have different views of things without being cast into Hell? So what--you think the AoD is the crucifixion of Christ, and I think it is the Roman Army in 70 AD? Someone else thinks it is the Antichrist--so what? Let's just share why we believe what we believe, and let it go--let others decide if our arguments are convincing. Threatening "destruction" upon those who do not accept our interpretations will never convince a fellow Christian that it is God who is speaking to them!

I'm saying this here not because you're being so disagreeable in this particular post, but because in other posts this is what I've seen from you. Makes me kind of hesitate to state that I disagree with you, for fear that things are going to blow up! You do know that to suggest someone is "missing the mark" can be likely accusing them of sin, don't you?

 

[Timtofly]

Jesus said that his generation--the one who rejected him--would see the fall of the temple system, and the fall of Jerusalem. It would be when an Abomination of Desolation, ie the Roman Army, surrounded Jerusalem, standing in the holy place, ie in the territory in which Jerusalem and the temple were.

What Jesus apparently meant is that the last person alive when he was around would still be around when this judgment falls. It did not mean that those alive in Jesus' time would all see this judgment--just that they would all die and not exhaust everybody alive when Jesus said these words.

In other words, this was all about time. Jesus said the last one alive when he prophesied this would not die before it came to pass. It was clearly a judgment that would be put off for as long as possible to save the very generation he died for. But ultimately, the generation would not get away before they would be judged for rejecting him. This was about not letting that generation off before judgment fell, even though it was put off as long as possible.

First off, he said let the reader understand.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) "

He was not saying some would survive until that day. He said those reading would understand. You are looking at it from the perspective of his audience on the mount of Olives. Not from some reading it at a later date, like us.

 

[Randy Kluth]

First off, he said let the reader understand.

"When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand) "

He was not saying some would survive until that day. He said those reading would understand. You are looking at it from the perspective of his audience on the mount of Olives. Not from some reading it at a later date, like us.

"Let the reader understand" may have been written not by Jesus, but by the author." At any rate, it makes no difference in the meaning. The idea was that the generation would not lapse before this judgment falls. It would be somewhat delayed because Jesus had died for their sins. And it would have to happen in that generation, to show that it was their sin that was making it happen. So it would happen when very few of that generation were still alive. The point is, it was an imminent judgment, not being delayed for future generations.

 

[Randy Kluth]

I would like to see how you line them up. I am certain it is the way I used to long ago.

I will here show you Matt 24, separated into bold categories. Then I will show you Luke 21, with the same categories, relating precisely to Matt 24. I could be more specific, but the post would be too long. 2 parts.

Part 1
Introductory Subject: the fall of the Temple. When would it happen, and how does this relate to the coming Kingdom?

Matt 24.1 Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. 2 “Do you see all these things?” he asked. “Truly I tell you, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down.”

3 As Jesus was sitting on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to him privately. “Tell us,” they said, “when will this happen, and what will be the sign of your coming and of the end of the age?”

Initial Birth Pains that herald the 70 AD judgment. Roman stirrings and signs of divine displeasure.
4 Jesus answered: “Watch out that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. 6 You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. 7 Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of birth pains.

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, 11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

The fall of the Temple by the Roman Army, the AoD.
15 “So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’ spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16 then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let no one on the housetop go down to take anything out of the house. 18 Let no one in the field go back to get their cloak. 19 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! 20 Pray that your flight will not take place in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.

22 “If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. 23 At that time if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Messiah!’ or, ‘There he is!’ do not believe it. 24 For false messiahs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you ahead of time.

26 “So if anyone tells you, ‘There he is, out in the wilderness,’ do not go out; or, ‘Here he is, in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. 27 For as lightning that comes from the east is visible even in the west, so will be the coming of the Son of Man. 28 Wherever there is a carcass, there the vultures will gather.

Christ comes with his Kingdom to end the Jewish Punishment of the NT Age.
29 “Immediately after the distress of those days

“‘the sun will be darkened,
and the moon will not give its light;
the stars will fall from the sky,
and the heavenly bodies will be shaken.’

30 “Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory. 31 And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.

The answer to *when* the Temple will fall--in this generation.
32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The answer to *when* Christ will come--it is not known. Judgment cannot be anticipated except through righteous living.
36 “But about that day or hour no one knows, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father. 37 As it was in the days of Noah, so it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 38 For in the days before the flood, people were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, up to the day Noah entered the ark; 39 and they knew nothing about what would happen until the flood came and took them all away. That is how it will be at the coming of the Son of Man. 40 Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other left. 41 Two women will be grinding with a hand mill; one will be taken and the other left.

42 “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. 43 But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. 44 So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.

45 “Who then is the faithful and wise servant, whom the master has put in charge of the servants in his household to give them their food at the proper time? 46 It will be good for that servant whose master finds him doing so when he returns. 47 Truly I tell you, he will put him in charge of all his possessions. 48 But suppose that servant is wicked and says to himself, ‘My master is staying away a long time,’ 49 and he then begins to beat his fellow servants and to eat and drink with drunkards. 50 The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. 51 He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the hypocrites, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

 

[Randy Kluth]

Part 2
Introductory Subject: the fall of the Temple. When would it happen, and how does this relate to the coming Kingdom? (same as Matt 24.1-3)
Luke 21.5 Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful stones and with gifts dedicated to God. But Jesus said, 6 “As for what you see here, the time will come when not one stone will be left on another; every one of them will be thrown down.”

7 “Teacher,” they asked, “when will these things happen? And what will be the sign that they are about to take place?”

Initial Birth Pains that herald the 70 AD judgment. Roman stirrings and signs of divine displeasure. (same as Matt 24.4-14)
8 He replied: “Watch out that you are not deceived. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The time is near.’ Do not follow them. 9 When you hear of wars and uprisings, do not be frightened. These things must happen first, but the end will not come right away.”

10 Then he said to them: “Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. 11 There will be great earthquakes, famines and pestilences in various places, and fearful events and great signs from heaven.

12 “But before all this, they will seize you and persecute you. They will hand you over to synagogues and put you in prison, and you will be brought before kings and governors, and all on account of my name. 13 And so you will bear testimony to me. 14 But make up your mind not to worry beforehand how you will defend yourselves. 15 For I will give you words and wisdom that none of your adversaries will be able to resist or contradict. 16 You will be betrayed even by parents, brothers and sisters, relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death. 17 Everyone will hate you because of me. 18 But not a hair of your head will perish. 19 Stand firm, and you will win life.

The fall of the Temple by the Roman Army, the AoD. (same as Matt 24.15-27)
20 “When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will know that its desolation is near. 21 Then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains, let those in the city get out, and let those in the country not enter the city. 22 For this is the time of punishment in fulfillment of all that has been written. 23 How dreadful it will be in those days for pregnant women and nursing mothers! There will be great distress in the land and wrath against this people. 24 They will fall by the sword and will be taken as prisoners to all the nations. Jerusalem will be trampled on by the Gentiles until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.

Christ comes with his Kingdom to end the Jewish Punishment of the NT Age. (same as Matt 24.29-31)
25 “There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea. 26 People will faint from terror, apprehensive of what is coming on the world, for the heavenly bodies will be shaken.
27 At that time they will see the Son of Man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 When these things begin to take place, stand up and lift up your heads, because your redemption is drawing near.”

The answer to *when* the Temple will fall--in this generation. (same as Matt 24.32-35)
29 He told them this parable: “Look at the fig tree and all the trees. 30 When they sprout leaves, you can see for yourselves and know that summer is near. 31 Even so, when you see these things happening, you know that the kingdom of God is near.

32 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.

The answer to *when* Christ will come--it is not known. Judgment cannot be anticipated except through righteous living. (same as Matt 24.36-51)
34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. 35 For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth. 36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

37 Each day Jesus was teaching at the temple, and each evening he went out to spend the night on the hill called the Mount of Olives, 38 and all the people came early in the morning to hear him at the temple.

Luke 17.20 Once, on being asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, “The coming of the kingdom of God is not something that can be observed, 21 nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”

22 Then he said to his disciples, “The time is coming when you will long to see one of the days of the Son of Man, but you will not see it. 23 People will tell you, ‘There he is!’ or ‘Here he is!’ Do not go running off after them. 24 For the Son of Man in his day will be like the lightning, which flashes and lights up the sky from one end to the other. 25 But first he must suffer many things and be rejected by this generation.

26 “Just as it was in the days of Noah, so also will it be in the days of the Son of Man. 27 People were eating, drinking, marrying and being given in marriage up to the day Noah entered the ark. Then the flood came and destroyed them all.

28 “It was the same in the days of Lot. People were eating and drinking, buying and selling, planting and building. 29 But the day Lot left Sodom, fire and sulfur rained down from heaven and destroyed them all.

30 “It will be just like this on the day the Son of Man is revealed. 31 On that day no one who is on the housetop, with possessions inside, should go down to get them. Likewise, no one in the field should go back for anything. 32 Remember Lot’s wife! 33 Whoever tries to keep their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life will preserve it. 34 I tell you, on that night two people will be in one bed; one will be taken and the other left. 35 Two women will be grinding grain together; one will be taken and the other left.”

37 “Where, Lord?” they asked.

He replied, “Where there is a dead body, there the vultures will gather.”

 

[bbyrd009]

Yes and no. Yes, interpreting dreams is not the same thing as interpreting tongues. But no, I do believe dreams were given as a gift to edify Israel.

Paul used the OT example of Israel's capitulation to enemies with foreign tongues to explain that NT tongues is the capitulation of our own carnal selves to heavenly language. We turn our carnal selves over to God so that we speak and act like children of God.

So here, the OT example of tongues is indeed very different from the NT version of the same. You're right about that.

the Tower of Babel might fit tho; i would say that it leads to a great understanding of SiT, that i have more than once tried to bring out here, but i guess the mood has to be right or something

 

[Randy Kluth]

the Tower of Babel might fit tho; i would say that it leads to a great understanding of SiT, that i have more than once tried to bring out here, but i guess the mood has to be right or something

The Tower of Babel was designed to confuse. The Gift of the Interpretation of Tongues may the reconciliation of differences by reference to spiritual unity through the word of God. The lesson may be, God doesn't want unity on earth via the Carnal Man. But He can bypass our national and ethnic diversity through spiritual unity, right?

 

[Timtofly]

Why do you get so "touchy" when we disagree on something? Can't we have different views of things without being cast into Hell? So what--you think the AoD is the crucifixion of Christ, and I think it is the Roman Army in 70 AD? Someone else thinks it is the Antichrist--so what? Let's just share why we believe what we believe, and let it go--let others decide if our arguments are convincing. Threatening "destruction" upon those who do not accept our interpretations will never convince a fellow Christian that it is God who is speaking to them!

I'm saying this here not because you're being so disagreeable in this particular post, but because in other posts this is what I've seen from you. Makes me kind of hesitate to state that I disagree with you, for fear that things are going to blow up! You do know that to suggest someone is "missing the mark" can be likely accusing them of sin, don't you?

Must be why I don't have many friends.

It is still future. But it does not matter either way. At least I don't claim your eschatological belief will send you to sheol. It will not even leave you "behind". Some people will just be pleasantly surprised. And hopefully not too many disappointed at the Second Coming.

The AoD may or may not happen, but it is still future. What is it called when people look at the past only?

 

[Timtofly]

"Let the reader understand" may have been written not by Jesus, but by the author." At any rate, it makes no difference in the meaning. The idea was that the generation would not lapse before this judgment falls. It would be somewhat delayed because Jesus had died for their sins. And it would have to happen in that generation, to show that it was their sin that was making it happen. So it would happen when very few of that generation were still alive. The point is, it was an imminent judgment, not being delayed for future generations.

The AoD is/was not imminent. It was the last thing to happen right before the end. The end means what to you? The end is the last of the Gentile ingathering. There is no church on earth, after the Second Coming.