A pale horse anyone?

[Mikey-for-sure]

Ever get confused about the horsemans. Here is a paraphase and a parsing

Revelation 6 (KJV or NIV)
1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5aAnd when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see.
5b And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8aAnd I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

8b And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Come and see. It is a command to you to see what the horseman bore witness
Verses 1-8a tells you the characters of the narrative. Lets see if you can count - consider verse 8b.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Ever get confused about the horsemans. Here is a paraphase and a parsing

Revelation 6 (KJV or NIV)
1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5aAnd when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see.
5b And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8aAnd I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

8b And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Come and see. It is a command to you to see what the horseman bore witness
Verses 1-8a tells you the characters of the narrative. Lets see if you can count - consider verse 8b.

verse 8b lines up with 3 of the 4 horseman. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
a red horse- to kill with sword, a black horse - and with hunger, a pale horse - and with death,
that leaves a white horse - and with the beasts of the earth.
That is the interesting one, the white horse. Why does the Great Commission Mandate of the conquering Christendom become death by beasts of the earth.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

verse 8b lines up with 3 of the 4 horseman. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
a red horse- to kill with sword, a black horse - and with hunger, a pale horse - and with death,
that leaves a white horse - and with the beasts of the earth.
That is the interesting one, the white horse. Why does the Great Commission Mandate of the conquering Christendom become death by beasts of the earth.

Zechariah 6:1And I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came four chariots out from between two mountains; and the mountains were mountains of brass. 2In the first chariot were red horses; and in the second chariot black horses; 3And in the third chariot white horses; and in the fourth chariot grisled and bay horses. 4Then I answered and said unto the angel that talked with me, What are these, my lord? 5And the angel answered and said unto me, These are the four spirits of the heavens, which go forth from standing before the Lord of all the earth.

Because of the angels assessment
Christendom has become babylon and the verdict of the 7 seals has been decreed

Jeremiah 51:37 And Babylon shall become heaps, a dwelling place for dragons, an astonishment, and an hissing, without an inhabitant.

Christianity within the walls of babylon are no better than any other worldly belief. Lock em together and see who is the winner.

This was before the Holy Mountain before Moses delivering the Law
Exodus 19:13 There shall not an hand touch it, but he shall surely be stoned, or shot through; whether it be beast or man, it shall not live: when the trumpet soundeth long, they shall come up to the mount.

Imagine going before the Master of all the Covenants
Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

 

[marks]

The rider of the white horse, conquering and to conquer - Governance becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the red horse, to take peace from the earth - Society becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the black horse, balances of imbalance - Economy becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the green horse, power to kill in 1/4 of the earth - Ecology becomes hostile to man.

The beginning conditions of the 70th Week of Daniel.

Jesus prophesied, False Christs and False Prophets to a people who were to be ruled by their religious leaders, prophesying false governance to them, false spiritual leadership. False Messiahs, saviors.

He prophesied wars and rumors of war, famine, pestilence, but the end is not yet, these things are birth pangs. Birth pangs come and go, getting worse as the birth gets closer. And so the wars and famines and diseases and all these things, like the contractions, they hit, then they stop, then harder, then another respite, then harder still.

And so hostile governance, society, economy, ecology/environment, these all ebb and flow more extreme the closer to the end.

And when the seals are opened, there is no more ebb and flow, labor is begun. What was partial becomes total as God prepares for the saving of His chosen nation, Israel.

* a quick note on the "great sword" given to the red horse rider, this is not the battle sword, this is the 'machaira', the short sword used for hand-to-hand combat, warfare on the personal level.

Much love!

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

The rider of the white horse, conquering and to conquer - Governance becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the red horse, to take peace from the earth - Society becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the black horse, balances of imbalance - Economy becomes hostile to man.
The rider of the green horse, power to kill in 1/4 of the earth - Ecology becomes hostile to man.

The beginning conditions of the 70th Week of Daniel.

Jesus prophesied, False Christs and False Prophets to a people who were to be ruled by their religious leaders, prophesying false governance to them, false spiritual leadership. False Messiahs, saviors.

He prophesied wars and rumors of war, famine, pestilence, but the end is not yet, these things are birth pangs. Birth pangs come and go, getting worse as the birth gets closer. And so the wars and famines and diseases and all these things, like the contractions, they hit, then they stop, then harder, then another respite, then harder still.

And so hostile governance, society, economy, ecology/environment, these all ebb and flow more extreme the closer to the end.

And when the seals are opened, there is no more ebb and flow, labor is begun. What was partial becomes total as God prepares for the saving of His chosen nation, Israel.

* a quick note on the "great sword" given to the red horse rider, this is not the battle sword, this is the 'machaira', the short sword used for hand-to-hand combat, warfare on the personal level.

Much love!

That is an interesting take of the four, and if we were only speaking in our current vernacular, what was said is completely reasonable. But the bible speaks of 3 in terms of history (i.e. God trying to reason with the first born nation - see quoted bible verses). I reason the endtimes as the end of history, not a ebb and flow per se. What you see is El Gibbor strangling the shnot out of the beasts of heaven, sea, and earth. They thrash and convulse but we must always choke them of their foul breathing.

The 4th concept of ecology is consistent with verses (8a + 8b) combined. that is why I separated the two, then the "one fourth" is consistent with biblical counting - four winds, 4 horns ...

As for the great Sword as 'machaira', thanks for the info - something to contemplate.

Godspeed to you.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Bad Governance
But bad governance was par for the course for false kings.
Consider
1 Samuel 8:11 And he said, This will be the manner of the king that shall reign over you: He will take your sons, and appoint them for himself, for his chariots, and to be

his horsemen; and some shall run before his chariots.

>>>>>Bad Society
Consider Psalm 53
1{To the chief Musician upon Mahalath, Maschil, A Psalm of David.} The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. Corrupt are they, and have done abominable iniquity:

there is none that doeth good.
2God looked down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there were any that did understand, that did seek God.
3Every one of them is gone back: they are altogether become filthy; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.

>>>>>Bad Economy
Consider Psalm 10
2The wicked in his pride doth persecute the poor: let them be taken in the devices that they have imagined.
3For the wicked boasteth of his heart's desire, and blesseth the covetous, whom the LORD abhorreth.
4The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek after God: God is not in all his thoughts.
5His ways are always grievous; thy judgments are far above out of his sight: as for all his enemies, he puffeth at them.
6He hath said in his heart, I shall not be moved: for I shall never be in adversity.
7His mouth is full of cursing and deceit and fraud: under his tongue is mischief and vanity.
8He sitteth in the lurking places of the villages: in the secret places doth he murder the innocent: his eyes are privily set against the poor.
9He lieth in wait secretly as a lion in his den: he lieth in wait to catch the poor: he doth catch the poor, when he draweth him into his net.
10He croucheth, and humbleth himself, that the poor may fall by his strong ones.
11He hath said in his heart, God hath forgotten: he hideth his face; he will never see it.

>>>>>Ecology. I am going to completely diverge here. Personally I am completely cynical of anthropogenic global warming. Climate change of course, but science has not and will

no demonstrate it as man made. Mind you I still believe in God's perfect storm is a-coming, but that is a fervent hope not an extrapolable prophecy.

>>>>>Consider the parsing of the 70 weeks
7 weeks first + 62 weeks second + 1 week endtimes = 70 weeks total

70 weeks total
Daniel 9:24
Seventy weeks are decreed for your people and your holy city to stop their transgression, to put an end to sin, to make atonement for iniquity, to bring in everlasting

righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

7 weeks first + 62 weeks second
25aKnow and understand this: From the issuance of the decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem, until the Messiah, the Prince, there will be seven weeks and sixty-two weeks.

end of the 7 weeks first
25b It will be rebuilt with streets and a trench, but in times of distress.

end of the 62 weeks second
26Then after the sixty-two weeks the Messiah will be cut off and will have nothing.

the last 1 week endtimes is from the death of Jesus.

I therefore reason Revelation was a prescient report card of Christendom's failures (successes are the norm as the ten horned beast was still kicking at 1AD and the beastie of the earth was yet to come post 1 AD to the end in fire)
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

 

[marks]

Personally I am completely cynical of anthropogenic global warming

Me to.

Much love!

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

site "penelope.uchicago.edu/~grout/encyclopaedia_romana/miscellanea/trivia/no-man.html"

Antiochus IV (Epiphanes), the king of Syria, captured Jerusalem in 167 BC and desecrated the Temple by offering the sacrifice of a pig on an altar to Zeus (the Abomination of Desolation). In seeking to prohibit Judaism and Hellenize the Jews, Antiochus forbade their religious practices and commanded that copies of the Law be burned,

Such desecration and persecution prompted the identification of Antiochus as a prototype of the Antichrist.

Generalizing the antichrist concept to a spiritual nation.
A king not anointed by God desecrates decrees of God by imposing unholy consensus upon it's worshippers.

If you disobey or taint the decrees of God, what becomes of your spiritual temple? Your temple is devoid of the Holy of Holies and your worship is unholy and useless , desolate. It becomes worthy of wild beasts rendering it empty and void.

 

[quietthinker]

A pale horse anyone?​

Is it better than a Bloody Mary?

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

A pale horse anyone?​

Is it better than a Bloody Mary?

Puh-lease. I use to be religious about bloody caesars, but the clamato mix was so full of sodium, it would harden your heart, er I mean arteries. But IPAs, bitter in the mouth but sweet in the tummy!

 

[strepho]

Revelation chapter 6, the seals align with Matthew chapter 24, the 7 signs Jesus gave for the last generation, the fig tree generation.
Zechariah chapter 6. The two mountains of brass and four chariots.
The two mountains are Russia and America.
The black horses went north, Russia, it's satanic. The grisled horses went south, middle east. The red chariot is omitted.

The Russia and Ukraine war is from the black chariots of zechariah chapter 6.

I studied under pastor Arnold murray and dennis for 23 years. I have holy spirit. I know what I'm talking about.

Theirs misinterpretations and misrepresentation of God's word here. Some members clearly have not done their homework.
Teachers are accountable to Jesus. I hope no one is intentionally misleading people. I'm not judging anyone. False brethren will have nightmare on judgement day. Get the picture.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Ever get confused about the horsemans. Here is a paraphase and a parsing

Revelation 6 (KJV or NIV)
1And I saw when the Lamb opened one of the seals, and I heard, as it were the noise of thunder, one of the four beasts saying, Come and see.
2And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.
3And when he had opened the second seal, I heard the second beast say, Come and see.
4And there went out another horse that was red: and power was given to him that sat thereon to take peace from the earth, and that they should kill one another: and there was given unto him a great sword.
5aAnd when he had opened the third seal, I heard the third beast say, Come and see.
5b And I beheld, and lo a black horse; and he that sat on him had a pair of balances in his hand.
6And I heard a voice in the midst of the four beasts say, A measure of wheat for a penny, and three measures of barley for a penny; and see thou hurt not the oil and the wine.
7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8aAnd I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him.

8b And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.

Come and see. It is a command to you to see what the horseman bore witness
Verses 1-8a tells you the characters of the narrative. Lets see if you can count - consider verse 8b.

Maybe what John saw was what was being released upon the earth in real time. Consider, all those things the horsemen bore is happening on earth to this day.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Revelation chapter 6, the seals align with Matthew chapter 24, the 7 signs Jesus gave for the last generation, the fig tree generation.
Zechariah chapter 6. The two mountains of brass and four chariots.
The two mountains are Russia and America.
The black horses went north, Russia, it's satanic. The grisled horses went south, middle east. The red chariot is omitted.

The Russia and Ukraine war is from the black chariots of zechariah chapter 6.

I studied under pastor Arnold murray and dennis for 23 years. I have holy spirit. I know what I'm talking about.

Theirs misinterpretations and misrepresentation of God's word here. Some members clearly have not done their homework.
Teachers are accountable to Jesus. I hope no one is intentionally misleading people. I'm not judging anyone. False brethren will have nightmare on judgement day. Get the picture.

Hello Strepho,
Interesting take. But Russia and America were not on Zechariah's radar at that time. I concur with general commentary that the horseman and mountains are divine agencies. The scroll and seals are representative of majestic decree/judgement of God. The first 6 seals are reasons and judgements. The 7th is end result. The 4 horsemen are angelic witnesses. Look at Zechariah, it clearly states they are angels of God. Look at Ezekiel at the Cherubim's feet of God's Chariot (gimbaled eyes). That is why the living creatures command come see. This is what the angels see around the throne of God. Conquering as they were meant to conquer - good. Fomenting wars - Bad. Ripping of the poor - bad. Introducing deadly filth to the healing words of God - Bad. Because of the 3 bads, the first good is meaningless. It is hypocrisy that leads to desolation (wild beasts). The 5th seal says enough is enough as no more martyrs will be produced. No point to continue. 6th seal let it end sayeth the Lord. 7th seal let the angels begin forging the new heaven and new earth.

Who is this Arnold Murray? Does he prophesy plainly? I am curious does he have a website?

Please state the misrepresentations, I value reproof from the Scriptures. Let us see what you have to preach.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

Maybe what John saw was what was being released upon the earth in real time. Consider, all those things the horsemen bore is happening on earth to this day.

I sort of concur. But should a believer from 2023AD have a different understanding than in 100AD. See post #12 for my take.

Here is the multifaceted eyes which are powered by the living creatures (of Revelation 4 fame)
Ezekiel 1:15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

So yes, they are realtime but so much more. They are historic. As I personally believe we will witness the fall of babylon soon, it is in a sense current.
Enjoy the show, God's Will be done on earth as in heaven.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I sort of concur. But should a believer from 2023AD have a different understanding than in 100AD. See post #12 for my take.

Here is the multifaceted eyes which are powered by the living creatures (of Revelation 4 fame)
Ezekiel 1:15Now as I beheld the living creatures, behold one wheel upon the earth by the living creatures, with his four faces. 16The appearance of the wheels and their work was like unto the colour of a beryl: and they four had one likeness: and their appearance and their work was as it were a wheel in the middle of a wheel. 17When they went, they went upon their four sides: and they turned not when they went. 18As for their rings, they were so high that they were dreadful; and their rings were full of eyes round about them four. 19And when the living creatures went, the wheels went by them: and when the living creatures were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up. 20Whithersoever the spirit was to go, they went, thither was their spirit to go; and the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels. 21When those went, these went; and when those stood, these stood; and when those were lifted up from the earth, the wheels were lifted up over against them: for the spirit of the living creature was in the wheels.

So yes, they are realtime but so much more. They are historic. As I personally believe we will witness the fall of babylon soon, it is in a sense current.
Enjoy the show, God's Will be done on earth as in heaven.

I'm thinking of contemporary technology that may fit that description.

I think we need remember 1st century consciousness would have to relate the visions to what they knew to exist at the time.

For instance, the ancient cultures of south America, Iraq, Mesopotamia, made carved reliefs depicting their gods with wings. This to show they flew.

So perhaps that excerpt from Revelation is depicting a multi-array wifi communication system, or an Omni-directional military tank, or a drone?

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

I'm thinking of contemporary technology that may fit that description.

I think we need remember 1st century consciousness would have to relate the visions to what they knew to exist at the time.

For instance, the ancient cultures of south America, Iraq, Mesopotamia, made carved reliefs depicting their gods with wings. This to show they flew.

So perhaps that excerpt from Revelation is depicting a multi-array wifi communication system, or an Omni-directional military tank, or a drone?

Kind of from left field! If the tech came from our time from this space, then begs the question why? Wouldn't tech in Ezekiel's time (900 BC) be better served with transcendant tech from heaven. Why are the tech impacting only the wicked? Modern tech kills arbitrarily depending who is wielding it.

 

[BlessedPeace]

Kind of from left field! If the tech came from our time from this space, then begs the question why? Wouldn't tech in Ezekiel's time (900 BC) be better served with transcendant tech from heaven. Why are the tech impacting only the wicked? Modern tech kills arbitrarily depending who is wielding it.

You're aware of the biblical description of Ezekiel's wheel?

Centuries later a aerospace engineer was working on a project that seemed similar to its description.
"Spaceship of Ezekiel" book.

A modern translation of a primitive description of higher technology.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

You're aware of the biblical description of Ezekiel's wheel?

Centuries later a aerospace engineer was working on a project that seemed similar to its description.
"Spaceship of Ezekiel" book.

A modern translation of a primitive description of higher technology.

I don't think so! I doubt such a craft would stand up to modern engineering scrutiny. This is the fantasy piggybacking off of the bible. You should be a bit more critical.

 

[BlessedPeace]

I don't think so! I doubt such a craft would stand up to modern engineering scrutiny. This is the fantasy piggybacking off of the bible. You should be a bit more critical.

I am. Nothing is 9mossible for God
Where do we think our advances in technology came from n the first place.

 

[Mikey-for-sure]

I am. Nothing is 9mossible for God
Where do we think our advances in technology came from n the first place.

But wouldn't God's tech be better?

 

[quietthinker]

Where do we think our advances in technology came from n the first place.

Now that's an interesting question! Ever consider that the antediluvians had the technology to engineer animals? Dinosaurs of all descriptions for example ......and what about atmospheric change? (climate) bringing on the flood of which the Ark became God's rescue mission?

Re the animals, did they create monsters God never intended to exist?

Did they abuse the technology they developed, eventually threatening their whole reality.....much the same as we are doing today?