A permanent structure

[GUANO]

God gave The Movable Tabernacle, the Temple, the implements, the rites, rituals, holy days, and other observances are inspired and prophetic in nature for the purpose of being understood otherwise there would be no sense in giving them.

Prophecy serves as a sign and a wonder. To declare the end from the beginning in order to give glory to God for His own pleasure and purpose... Let me put this into perspective: The last time accurate, high-profile predictions were made using the books of Daniel and Revelation were from the 16th century and since then, mainstream christianity has completely abandoned the views that influenced those predictions.

Our corporate "understanding" of such mysteries have spawned almost nothing productive or instructional in the Christian 'mindset' for over 1,200 years and has only served to create more division and dare I say, delusion as to the fundamental nature of God and the reality that we live in as well as to support secular regimes trying to gain support from christians.

Now whether the Hebrews understood them or whether we understand them or not is another matter altogether.
The primary factor that enables understanding or the lack of it is ones paradigm. If we choose to hold onto a paradigm that is incompatible with Gods purposes we will remain in ignorance dodging and weaving Gods word to somehow fit into what we have imagined.

Example; the Hebrews were captive 400 yrs in Egypt. God brought them out with a great hand, they saw it and experienced it with their own eyes. The plagues, the parting of the Red Sea, They heard Gods voice from Sinai and saw and felt the mountain shaking and burning yet a few weeks later they made a golden calf and worshipped it. Why?? because they refused to let go of the paradigm that Egypt had impregnated them with.

They had dim vision and weak or no faith because of the paradigm they refused to let go of but God led them anyway. The crunch came when it was time to cross over into the promised land. That generation refused Gods directive and died in the desert .
This account is for our benefit so that we today do not fail because of the same factors.

We do not understand because we have vested interests (pride, laziness, status, sin) in a paradigm that is incompatible to understanding, yet God leads us in spite of ourselves in the hope that we will come around to his ways.

Do we really think that we will cross over into the promised land when the time comes all the while having Gods Wisdom and direction pushed aside and instead constructed our own?

When a computer requires upgrading (paradigm) because the programs no longer work and it is not upgraded how long do you think it will be functional?

All of God's instructions are given for the purpose of working by being understood, particularly in these last days.

I like the optimism but my argument against that overall idea is that we are making FAR WORSE mistakes than any of the ancients ever did. We (the christian institution) hasn't learned from ANY of those mistakes that were made previously. We have gone far above and beyond what the ancients did as far as "whoring after other gods".

You say "paradigm" but what I'm 'hearing' in the context is "dispensation" which then makes "dispensationalists" the "authority" on such matters as to "how to interpret Logos in the current paradigm". I can't possibly agree with that for several reasons: First, "The spirit of the age" (paradigm, dispensation) is a Zeitgeist, and while it is an agent of YHWH to drive social and cultural change, it is not YHWH and it is not Logos, a Zeitgeist is a power of the air and represents a cultural "season"). Logos is the same yesterday, today, forever, regardless of the subjective interpretation of it throughout time. Second: When the legal process (rite/ritual) of incorporating a terrestrial institution (a church) fundamentally requires the acknowledgement of a principality as the primary authority that authorizes it's existence there is no way I could trust that institution to explain the deeper mysteries of the Word of God.

This isn't to say that God isn't at work in these churches and corporate denominations, far from it---you wanted to be agents of change and so agents of change you are.

 

[GUANO]

God has traditionally turned our collective complete and total failure into His victory and there is absolutely no reason to think we are in some kind of "new paradigm" today in which all of a sudden we are different now and worthy of respect in the understanding of spiritual matters. We [collectively] never got it, don't get it, and won't get it---but we don't need to get it.

 

[quietthinker]

paradigm | ˈparədʌɪm |
noun
a typical example or pattern of something; a pattern or model: society's paradigm of the ‘ideal woman’. • a world view underlying the theories and methodology of a particular scientific subject: the discovery of universal gravitation became the paradigm of successful science.

Nothing to do with dispensation.

 

[GUANO]

paradigm | ˈparədʌɪm |
noun
a typical example or pattern of something; a pattern or model: society's paradigm of the ‘ideal woman’. • a world view underlying the theories and methodology of a particular scientific subject: the discovery of universal gravitation became the paradigm of successful science.

Nothing to do with dispensation.

Paradigm: a pattern or model of something
Dispensation: a system of order especially as existing at a particular time
Zeitgeist: the defining spirit or mood of a particular period of history as shown by the ideas and beliefs of the time.

The terms are certainly related but thanks for the clarification as to whether or not you were referring to dispensationalism as a doctrine. Would you say that our current "paradigm" is close to the mark so to speak? Do you believe that we as a group know more about the meanings of scripture today or 2,000 years ago?

 

[quietthinker]

The terms are certainly related but thanks for the clarification as to whether or not you were referring to dispensationalism as a doctrine. Would you say that our current "paradigm" is close to the mark so to speak? Do you believe that we as a group know more about the meanings of scripture today or 2,000 years ago?

I have used the word paradigm to apply to individual mindsets. Generalising is too nebulous. The same principle applies to your second question. Group thinking as I see it is/was never a way of determining the accuracy of any matter in any age.

 

[GUANO]

I have used the word paradigm to apply to individual mindsets. Generalising is too nebulous. The same principle applies to your second question. Group thinking as I see it is/was never a way of determining the accuracy of any matter in any age.

I agree with you. Though group-think doesn't determine the accuracy of any matter during any time, but it certainly does determine how the commonly perceived notions are defined and applied in any sort of organization (which is no measure of accuracy).
Nice chat.

 

[FHII]

A permanent structure: our glorified bodies.

Can anyone share what God has shown them pertaining to the moveable tent structure in the Old Testament where the Lord met with Moses in the wilderness? And what you have been shown pertaining to the temple of Solomon? Yes, both were on earth and created by man's hands but: they also show us the difference between the moveable tent(the body of flesh/His temple at present) in the wilderness where the Lord met with Moses verses the coming of a permanent structure the (glorified body) of God.(made without hands)

2 Corinthians 5:1-10
[1] For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle were dissolved(the present flesh temple), we have a building of God, an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. [2] For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven the permanent structure from heaven) [3] If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked. [4] For we that are in this tabernacle(the present flesh temple of God as in the wilderness/ moveable, earthen) do groan, being burdened: not for that we would be unclothed, but clothed upon, that mortality might be swallowed up of life. [5] Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit. [6] Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body(the wilderness temple of flesh), we are absent from the Lord: [7] (For we walk by faith, not by sight [8] We are confident, I say , and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. [9] Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him. [10] For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body(temple of flesh), according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.

A temporary structure: a moveable tent.
A permanent structure: the temple of Solomon: a glorified body.

So you want a permanent structure?

God is shaking both earth and heaven (not Satan, bot man... But God). He is doing so as a sifting process. He ia rremoving those things that can be shaken so that those things that cannot be shaken can remain.

It is spiritual Mount Sion and New Jerusalem. And it all comes down to grace! It is the kingdom which cannot be moved.

Hebrews 12:22-28.