Runningman
Active Member
Not at all.
Are you aware of what Trinitarians have done to those who simply disagreed or dissented with them in history?
A Question for Jehovah's Witnesses
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Are you aware of what Trinitarians have done to those who simply disagreed or dissented with them in history?
Well let's see, my Savior is Jesus, the JW savior is Michael. Michael is an angel who WORSHIPS Jesus! Who's in darkness?
The 1970 NWT JW bible says: Heb 1 Let all God's angels WORSHIP him!
Runningman
Active Member
Jesus refused to be worshipped as God in Revelation 22. This is Jesus in the context as we can clearly see by verses 12 and 13 where he identifies himself.
8And I, John, am he who is seeing these things and hearing, and when I heard and beheld, I fell down to worship before the feet of the messenger who is showing me these things; 9and he says to me, “Behold—No! For I am your fellow servant, and of your brothers the prophets, and of those keeping the words of this scroll; worship God.”
10And He says to me, “You may not seal the words of the prophecy of this scroll, because the time is near. 11The [one] being unrighteous—let him be unrighteous still; and the filthy—let him be filthy still; and the righteous—let him do righteousness still; and the holy—let him be holy still.
12Behold, I come quickly, and My reward [is] with Me, to render to each as his work will be; 13I am the Alpha and the Omega—the Beginning and End—the First and the Last.
In case there is any confusion about who the messenger is, let me quote Revelation 1:
1A revelation of Jesus Christ that God gave to Him to show to His servants what things must quickly come to pass; and He signified [it], having sent through His messenger to His servant John, 2who testified [to] the word of God, and the testimony of Jesus Christ, as many things as he also saw. 3Blessed is he who is reading, and those hearing the words of the prophecy, and keeping the things written in it, for the time is near!
John 1:1 (DRV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (ASV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (AMP)
1 the Word was God Himself.
John 1:1 (CSBBible)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (CEB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (CJB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (CEV)
1 The Word was with God and was truly God.
John 1:1 (Darby)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (ETRV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (ESV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (GW)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (HCSB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (ICB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (KJV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (MLB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NET1)
1 the Word was fully God.
John 1:1 (NASB77)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NASB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NCV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NIV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NIV2011)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NJB)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NLT2)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (NRSV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (RSV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (MSG)
1 The Word was God,
John 1:1 (TEV)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (Webster's Bible)
1 the Word was God.
John 1:1 (YLT)
1 the Word was God;
VAGUE at best!
Perfectly clear from the JW bible: John 20 Thomas said to Jesus, "My Lord and my God"!
Just can hide it. Even the JW bible SCREAMS, Jesus is God!
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If I may expand on this a bit:
At the end of John 1:1 we find καὶ Θεὸς ἦν ὁ Λόγος. The author placed no article before Θεὸς. But the word order, with the predicate Θεὸς coming before the verb, suggests it is to be construed as definite ("God") rather than indefinite ("a god"). This is a consistent pattern in NT Greek, as Colwell, "Rule for the Use of the Article in the Greek New Testament," Journal of Biblical Literature Apr., 1933, Vol. 52, No. 1 (Apr., 1933), pp. 12-21 explains after an exhaustive survey. He concludes:
"The absence of the article does not make the predicate indefinite or qualitative when it precedes the verb; it is indefinite in this position only when the context demands it. The context makes no such demand in the Gospel of John, for this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas."
Runningman
Active Member
John 20:17 says Thomas' God is the Father. No verses says Thomas' god is Jesus.
It's a stronger interpretation to interpret Thomas' words "my God" as a reference to the Father since that's already explicitly stated.
But let's pretend you are right and analyze it. Saying "my God" to someone who demonstrably isn't God doesn't make them God any more than calling someone any thing necessarily means that is who or what they are.
Let's use your same logic and apply it to other places in the Bible and see if it holds any water.
Jesus called Peter Satan. That does not mean Jesus discipled the devil himself and that Peter is Satan incarnate.
Matthew 16
23But Jesus turned and said to Peter, “Get behind Me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to Me. For you do not have in mind the things of God, but the things of men.”
So the logic you're using doesn't really apply in the Bible in an objective way. What you have is called an interpretation and a theology, but it isn't Scripture.
As a result, when Thomas said "my God" it doesn't follow that Jesus is God.
Correction: Thomas said "My Lord and my God"! Should we believe you or Thomas whom Jesus taught personally? Hmm
Runningman
Active Member
Runningman
Active Member
For the readers, when Jesus said in John 20:17 that his God and the disciples God is the Father, in the Greek the manuscript utilizes "my μου (mou) God Θεόν (Theon)" meaning Jesus was referring to the definitive Lord God Almighty.
In the Greek, when the writers represent God with Theon as opposed to "my μου (mou) God! Θεός (theos)" it shows awareness that theos is a distinct usage of a form of god or something/someone that is godly, the same word sometimes used of the devil and other beings lesser than Lord God Almighty in the Bible.
Compare this to John 1:1 where there are two uses of God in the first verse. The God is ton Theon while the Word as a god is simply theos. This once again shows awareness of the distinction between The God and a god.
Therefore, another way to understand John 20:28 is that Jesus is a god or is godly, but not The God.
Either way we look at John 20:28, there isn't a path for Jesus to be Lord God Almighty.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly demonstrates Jesus (the Lamb) isn't the Almighty.
Revelation 21
22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
In the Greek, when the writers represent God with Theon as opposed to "my μου (mou) God! Θεός (theos)" it shows awareness that theos is a distinct usage of a form of god or something/someone that is godly, the same word sometimes used of the devil and other beings lesser than Lord God Almighty in the Bible.
Compare this to John 1:1 where there are two uses of God in the first verse. The God is ton Theon while the Word as a god is simply theos. This once again shows awareness of the distinction between The God and a god.
Therefore, another way to understand John 20:28 is that Jesus is a god or is godly, but not The God.
Either way we look at John 20:28, there isn't a path for Jesus to be Lord God Almighty.
Furthermore, the Bible clearly demonstrates Jesus (the Lamb) isn't the Almighty.
Revelation 21
22But I saw no temple in the city, because the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are its temple.
How long have you been JW?
Col 1 By Jesus all things were created! Which proves that Thomas is right! Jesus is God.
Runningman
Active Member
I read your opinions. Did you read my Scriptures?
Gen 1 God called Himself US and OUR. Father and Son. Jesus is God. Col 1 By Jesus all things were created! And that's why the angel Michael WORSHIPS Jesus as God COMMANDED Michael to do!
Runningman
Active Member
The image of God isn't the invisible God.
Colossians 1
15The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Being in the image of Son doesn't make someone God.
Romans 8
29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers.
Colossians 2:9-10
9 For in Him dwells all the fullness of the Godhead bodily;
Jesus is God!
Runningman
Active Member
Oops.
Ephesians 3
19of the love of Christ, and to know this love that surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled with all the fullness of God.
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