A serious questions for the Jehovah's Witnesses on these threads.

[The Learner]

You keep repeating this....but where does the Bible say that we must believe in the “physical” resurrection of Christ when Peter clearly states that Jesus was “put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit”? (1 Peter 3:18) If he was raised “in the flesh” Peter would have said so....he didn’t.

How would Jesus take his 'flesh and bones' to heaven?....minus his blood? Is that what you think? Where does it say that?

At 1 Cor 15:50-53 Paul wrote of his fellow elect....
50 Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal mustput on immortality.” (KJV)

What does Paul tell us....?
Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God....can flesh be flesh without blood?.....what creature of flesh has no blood to oxygenate every cell in their body?......so how can your scenario fit what Paul says there? According to you it is flesh and blood that does inherit the kingdom here on earth....yet Jesus clearly said that he was taking his elect to heaven....but many will "sleep" in death before that takes place.
Only those alive when Jesus returns, will not need to "sleep".

Paul wrote to the Colossians....but notice who he mentions....
“To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
3 We give thanks to God and the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, praying always for you,
4 Since we heard of your faith in Christ Jesus, and of the love which ye have to all the saints,
5 For the hope which is laid up for you in heaven, whereof ye heard before in the word of the truth of the gospel”. (KJV)

This is your chosen translation, and here Paul makes a clear difference between the “saints” (elect) and “the faithful brethren”....and it is the brethren who express love for the “all the saints” who have a “hope which is laid up...in heaven”. Not all have "the heavenly calling" (Heb 3:1)

Someone is schooled in their theology but not in the Bible as a whole......so who is presenting themselves as NOT indoctrinated, when they clearly are......? Your whole scenario is full of holes.


No, I’m sorry......Jehovah and his Christ are not part of that hypocritical rabble in any way. Christendom does not teach a single thing that Jesus did. None of their doctrines or practices come from the Bible, but are grafted into misinterpreted scripture......they teach from the old traditions that came to be substituted for God’s word when Christendom was born in the early centuries. History is repeating, only on a grander scale. What the devil did to Judaism, he has done even more so to Christendom. (Matthew 15: 7-9) No one seems to notice, but that is exactly what Jesus foretold....(Matthew 24:37-39)

“Christendom” is identified by the core beliefs that all their thousands of sects hold in common (including your own)....i.e......a triune godhead....immortality of the soul.....and hellfire of eternal torment....none of which were believed by the first Christians or taught by Christ and his apostles....and all of which are believed by those in pagan religions around the world. How can “Christians” share beliefs with those who worship satan’s false gods....(2 Cor 6:14-18)

There is only ONE truth......we just have to find the ones who teach it...but it can only happen with God’s guidance. (John 6:65) Many thousands will say "that is us"...but they will be sadly mistaken.

I don’t recall saying that works alone were necessary for salvation.....according to James though, if we have no works to back up our faith...it is “dead”. (James 2:18-26)
Those whom Christ will reject at the judgment will be promoting a false Christianity, identified by the same core of beliefs that run through all false religion manufactured by God's enemy. Because Christ is at this moment separating the “sheep from the goats”, this means that these two groups will have nothing in common....true Christians will be completely different from those who merely claim Jesus as their “Lord”.

From my perspective, all you have done is jump out of the frying pan, into a smaller frying pan. The same fire burns under both.
But your choices are yours to make....as are mine.

I am fully aware of what Christendom claims to have done and it sounds very familiar. (Matthew 7:21-23)

You criticize our organization for publishing books to help people understand the scriptures, and then point to others who publish such books and praise them for fulfilling the great commission....good grief....

When I ask those in Christendom what "the good news of the kingdom" is....I get a bunch of vague answers.
If none of you can explain it clearly, then how are you “preaching the good news of the kingdom”? (Matthew 24:14) It means that none of you have any idea what Jesus taught us to pray for in the Lord’s Prayer. The “coming” of the kingdom was second only to the sanctification of God’s name, which you also fail to acknowledge....grumbling over pronunciation as if God doesn't know his name in all languages....?

How does the kingdom “come” Ron? Tell me....

You are funny....I am told nothing that I have not thoroughly researched for myself....you yourself have a 'party line' from your own denomination that you promote. Are all Baptist’s then on the same page? (1 Cor 1:10) You know that they are not....
So, how are you any different to all the other "Christian" denominations? Our individual conviction is no indication that either one of us is correct.....all we can do is count on God to “draw” us to his truth.....because if we are not so "drawn", but have a "deluded" view of who and where we are, then only at the judgment will we know for sure. (John 6:44, 65; 2 Thessalonians 2:9-12)
Believing something doesn’t make it true.....and it is “few” who are on the road to life....so who can confidently assume that the other person has it all wrong? Look what happened to Jesus and his disciples....only a remnant of the natural Jews accepted him as the Christ......the rest were confident that he should die as a common criminal and even cursed themselves with his blood. (Matthew 27:25)

Confidence isn’t always the best test of accuracy.

Your question was already asked and answered, did you read it?

Also, have you bothered to do this study? https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

 

[The Learner]

Please read from

• #227 of

• Was Jesus Eternally Tormented?​

in the thread that was closed. It shows many of the logic problems used by The Watchtower and Jw's.

 

[Aunty Jane]

While I think JW are wrong about the physical resurrection, I don't think being wrong about it means you area not Christians.

This would be a good topic to explore if you would like to start a thread on it...?
Was Christ raised in his physical body, or was he raised in a spirit body?
What scriptures would you use to support your belief?

 

[The Learner]

True, but not one angel said in His appearing that a spirit does not have flesh and bone as you see me have, like Jesus said!

Also why do all of you JW's here simply ignore that Jesus said if the pharisees destroyed HIs body, in three days He would raise His body from the grave? Are you afraid?


Should have picked a different verse. This one shows God will be with mankind! Not up in heaven, because in the prior verses the city of God comes down from heaven and God tabernacles with man! Sorry but the Watchtower lied to you!

WOW! You must be a champ at eh game of twister! YOu have twisted the meaning of the word resurrection until it has no sense of its true meaning!

But you condemn yourself by your own words! For resurrection (anastasis) does mean a standing again! And it is the body that was laid down and the body that stands again! You even believe in the resurrection of the dead, for th e watchtower tells you the righteous dead will come back to life and live on earth.

My teachers? Jesus, Peter, Paul, James Jude, JOhn , the Holy Spirit.

Well I have reached out to tens of thousands in my life so your lie is exposed that NO One obey the great commssion.

I cannot and will not speak for the "those" you are judging here. They are not in my wheelhouse so I cannot speak to them. Those I have taught for over our decades I have drilled into them to share the good news.

Unfortunately Jane, you have been taught to bring another gospel. By denying the physical resurrection of Jesus from the dead, you have excluded yourself from the kingdom of God and teach others to be excluded as well! I believe you are probably a wonderful person, very devoted and very zealous for the Watchtower and the kingdom halls and your concept of God But by ejecting Jesus physical resurrection, all that is for naught.

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

"
After the resurrection, Jesus was able to eat (Luke 24:42-43). He showed people His hands and feet with the nail prints in them (Luke 24:39; John 20:27), and people even grabbed His feet and worshipped Him (Matt. 28:9). As the reports of Jesus’ resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the resurrection of Christ, said, “Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25). Later, Jesus appeared to Thomas and said to him, “Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.” (John 20:27).

If Jesus’ body had not risen, then He would not have feet and hands with the same holes of the nails of the crucifixion. Consider the following verses as further proof that His very body was raised:

• “When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples, therefore, rejoiced when they saw the Lord.” (John 20:19-20).
• “And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:38-39).

It is obvious that Jesus was raised in the same body in which He died–with the same holes in His hands and feet."

Jesus' Resurrection was physical

The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity. It is so important that without it Christianity is false.

carm.org

John 2:19-21

“Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews, therefore, said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.” (John 2:19-21).

"
1 Cor. 15:35, 39, 42-44

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?…. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. . . 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Verse 44 above is used in an attempt to establish the idea that Jesus did not rise physically but spiritually. Of course, I’ve already established above that Jesus was raised in the same body He died in–with the same holes in His hands and feet. We also saw that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). "

 

[The Learner]

“For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality. 54 But when this perishable will have put on the imperishable, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will come about the saying that is written, “Death is swallowed up in victory.” (1 Cor. 15:53-54).

Jesus' Resurrection was physical

The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity. It is so important that without it Christianity is false.

carm.org

 

[The Learner]

"The bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ is the most important event in history, providing irrefutable evidence that Jesus is who He claimed to be – the Son of God. The resurrection was not only the supreme validation of His deity; it also validated the Scriptures, which foretold His coming and resurrection. Moreover, it authenticated Christ’s claims that He would be raised on the third day (John 2:19-21; Mark 8:31; 9:31; 10:34). If Christ’s body was not resurrected, we have no hope that ours will be (1 Corinthians 15:13, 16). In fact, apart from Christ’s bodily resurrection, we have no Savior, no salvation, and no hope of eternal life. As the apostle Paul said, our faith would be “useless” and the life-giving power of the gospel would be altogether eliminated.

...

Scripture also made it clear that Christ’s body would see no decay (Psalm 16:10; Acts 2:27), a charge that would make no sense if His body was not resurrected. Lastly, Christ emphatically told His disciples it was His body that was resurrected: “A spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have” (Luke 24:39)." Why is the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ so important? | GotQuestions.org

 

[The Learner]

Romans 8:11
Verse Concepts
But if the Spirit of Him who raised Jesus from the dead dwells in you, He who raised Christ Jesus from the dead will also give life to your mortal bodies through His Spirit who dwells in you.

Source: 29 Bible verses about Our Resurrection

Top Bible Verses About the Resurrection of Jesus - Sharefaith Magazine

Our Savior has risen! This truth should always be on our lips and in our hearts. Be encouraged by these top Bible Verses about the resurrection of Jesus.

www.sharefaith.com

7. The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus the Messiah | Bible.org

The Doctrine In the last study we focused on how the Hebrew Scriptures prophesied the death and the exaltation of the Messiah. Isaiah’s oracle focused mostly on the suffering servant Messiah, but did not specifically teach the doctrine of the bodily resurrection, not as Psalm 16 and Daniel 12...

bible.org

"

Luke 24:36-43 ESV / 29 helpful votes Helpful Not Helpful​

As they were talking about these things, Jesus himself stood among them, and said to them, “Peace to you!” But they were startled and frightened and thought they saw a spirit. And he said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? See my hands and my feet, that it is I myself. Touch me, and see. For a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” And when he had said this, he showed them his hands and his feet. ..."

What Does the Bible Say About Resurrection Of Christ?

Bible verses about Resurrection Of Christ

www.openbible.info

 

[The Learner]

Was Jesus Raised Bodily from the Dead?

There are some who believe that Jesus did not have a resurrected body, but was only a spirit. However, the Scripture is very clear on the issue - the

www.blueletterbible.org

The Bodily Resurrection of Jesus - The Gospel Coalition

The claim of the bodily resurrection of Jesus is central to the Christian message as the cornerstone of all claims to divinity and salvific efficacy.

www.thegospelcoalition.org

Why is the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ so important? | GotQuestions.org

Why is the truth of the bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ so important? Is it important that Jesus was resurrected in a physical body?

www.gotquestions.org

The Certainty and Importance of the Physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead by R. A. Torrey

R. A. Torrey :: The Certainty and Importance of the Physical Resurrection of Jesus Christ from the Dead

www.blueletterbible.org

 

[The Learner]

What old testament scriptures relate to the Ressurrection of Jesus?

 

[The Learner]

read to here

 

[The Learner]

Try Romans 10,

And Peter did not say made alive in the spirit. He said made alive spirit. the construct is just as much "by" as "in". And given teh fact that jesus said if you destroyed His body, in three days He would raise His body from the dead!

YOu are linking your whole eternity on a very questionable understanding of Peter, when what Jesus simply declared says the Watchtower is a liar!

How would He? don't know but He did and that is what matters.

Once again resurrection= anastasis= a standing AGAIN! What was laid down is what is stood up(again). If Jesus died as a flesh being- He would have to stand again as a flesh being- that is what resurrection means and has meant for millenia.

Lazarus was resurrectds. was He resurrected.

Remember that God declared the life of the flesh is the blood. Jesus had his blood poured out completely- that is why He could say8 He was flesh and bone- for He is the first fruits of the resurrection of ALL believers- not the Watchtower mythical 144,000.

Now you are challenging what God can or cannot do. This mortal will put on immortality! That is the bible.

Well as Paul offers teh heavenly hope to both the saints and faithful brethren, I won't even bother to go into why it is not two separate peole He is talking about. That requires some education in biblical greek, which You do not have.

You say you cannot be born again or as Paul called it born of the spirit. that means you are still in the flesh. And Paul said that those in the flesh (which means human nature) cannot please God! That puts you in a hopeless dilemma in the Watchtower lies. Because you refuse to be born again- you are in your human nature- which means you cannot please God and you will not even SEE the kingdom of God! YOu really should rethink your position.

Well I am not here to answer for "those in Christendom". I am here to tell you what gods Word says without a man made organization reinterpreting it.

Well as this is a theological question that requires more than 10,000 words which are the limit here, I will not get into it. But I will say that what you see in what has been dubbed "Christendom" is exactly what Jesus and the Apostles foretold would happen. Just remember The wolf does not infiltrate flocks that are already his, but subverts the real flocks to lead them astray- just like we see today in so much of Christendom.

"Being put to death in the flesh (θανατωθεις μεν σαρκ). First aorist passive participle of θανατοω, old verb (from θανατος death), to put to death. Σαρκ is locative case of σαρξ.

But quickened in the spirit (ζωοποιηθεις δε πνευματ). First aorist passive participle of ζωοποιεω rare (Aristotle) verb (from ζωοποιος making alive), to make alive. The participles are not antecedent to απεθανεν, but simultaneous with it. There is no such construction as the participle of subsequent action. The spirit of Christ did not die when his flesh did, but "was endued with new and greater powers of life" (Thayer). See 1 Corinthians 15:22 for the use of the verb for the resurrection of the body. But the use of the word πνευματ (locative case) in contrast with σαρκ starts Peter's mind off in a long comparison by way of illustration that runs from verses 1 Peter 3:19-22. "

1 Peter 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 Peter 3, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, verse-by-verse, paints word pictures to describe the New Testament

www.studylight.org

 

[Aunty Jane]

Your question was already asked and answered, did you read it?

Also, have you bothered to do this study? https://www.calvarychapelboston.com/Biblical Basis Trinity Bowman.pdf

Are you a slow "learner"...? The question was far from answered. And these many posts appear to be a desperate attempt to push your own beliefs because they are challenged and you cannot let your precious doctrine be undermined.

I'm sorry but I am a Bible student and have been for many years.....and my research on all topics is as thorough as it can be. Do you really think I can read any of your propositions and not laugh at them......I used to believe them myself, until I actually studied scripture in its entirety, not only from Christendom's party line, which you espouse as though you could not possibly be wrong.....I will let the judge of all of us make that call....in the meantime I will expose error when I see it.

Assuming that Jesus entered heaven in a physical body of flesh and bones, but minus his blood is actually comical, not biblical.....what “form” did Jesus have before he entered the world as a human? Wasn't he a spirit, as are all those who inhabit the spirit realm must be?
Was he mortal or immortal?
Only mortals can die....immortals cannot. So either Jesus was a mortal human who could offer his life for mankind, or he was an immortal God who only pretended to.....? Is God a spirit? (John 4:24) Is he visible? If Jesus is the "image" of his "invisible" Father, then he must have returned to heaven as an invisible spirit too. (Col 1:15)

The fact that Jesus ate and drank after his resurrection means what? What did it mean when angels materialized and they ate and drank?
Did it mean that they were not spirits?

Hebrews 1:7....
"And of the angels he saith, Who maketh his angels spirits, and his ministers a flame of fire." (KJV)

Mounce Interlinear....
Regarding pros the ho angels angelos he says legō, “ He ho makes poieō · ho his autos angels angelos winds pneuma, and kai · ho his autos ministers leitourgos a flame phlox of fire pyr.”

The Bible clearly identifies angels as "spirits"....Gr "pneuma", and its the same word that is used of the "spirit" in man, animals, angels and God himself....and even for the wind, which is not seen, but can refer to that which is invisible to human sight but gives evidence of force in motion......we can see the effect it has on the material things around it.

Your arguments have been shown to be inaccurate especially with regard to the use of “theos” which Strongs gives the primary definition of....."a god or goddess, a general name of deities or divinities"....the Greeks were polytheists and all of their gods had names....the "one God" of the Jews at that time was nameless, so it was up to translators to render the Greek in the correct way...there is so much room for deliberate misinterpretation from Greek to English, and nowhere is this more evident than in the KJV.

One passage that especially demonstrates trinitarian bias is in John 10:31-36....
"Then the Jews took up stones again to stone him.
32 Jesus answered them, Many good works have I shewed you from my Father; for which of those works do ye stone me?
33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.
34 Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?
35 If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;
36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of God?" (KJV)

It is said that in this passage, Jesus was accused of blasphemy for saying that he was "God", but the Greek indicates the opposite....please note the use of the definite article where both God and his son needed differentiation in the Greek.....

"The ho Jews Ioudaios again palin brought bastazō stones lithos to hina stone lithazō him autos. 32 Jesus Iēsous said apokrinomai to them autos, · ho “ I have shown deiknymi you hymeis many polys noble kalos works ergon from ek the ho Father patēr; for dia which poios one ergon of them autos do you intend to stone lithazō me egō?” 33 The ho Jews Ioudaios answered apokrinomai him autos, “It is not ou for peri a noble kalos work ergon that we intend to stone lithazō you sy but alla for peri blasphemy blasphēmia; · kai it is because hoti you sy, a mere man anthrōpos, are making poieō yourself seautou God theos.” 34 Jesus Iēsous answered apokrinomai them autos, · ho “ Is it eimi not ou written graphō in en · ho your hymeis law nomos, ‘ I egō said legō, you are eimi gods theos’? 35 If ei the scripture called legō them ekeinos ‘ gods theos’ to pros whom hos the ho word logos of ho God theos came ginomai— and kai scripture graphē cannot ou dynamai be annulled lyō · ho— 36 do legō you hymeis say legō regarding the one whom hos the ho Father patēr consecrated hagiazō and kai sent apostellō into eis the ho world kosmos, ‘ You are blaspheming blasphēmeō,’ because hoti I said legō, ' I am eimi the Son hyios of ho theos’ God?" (Mounce Interlinear)
That little word "ho" is missing in the English translation when it refers to Yahweh, as if it was never there....it clearly is, (count how many times it is contained in this passage) though you wouldn't notice the two omissions unless it was brought to your attention. The Jews never claimed that Jesus said he was "ho theos" but that he committed blasphemy for claiming that God was his Father. (John 5:18)

Nowhere in all of scripture is Jesus ever called "ho theos" (THE God, Yahweh).
He is rightly called "theos" because he is of divine origin, and had full authorization from his superior Father. (Matthew 28:18) Why would God need to give himself "all authority in heaven and on earth"?

The definite article is used there to single out Yahweh, but the other uses of "theos" without the definite article identify Jesus as the "son of ho theos"....and Jesus clearly stated that calling someone "theos" didn't make them "God"....Yahweh called the human judges in Israel "gods" because they had his divine authority.....so did Jesus.
So John 1:1 says the same, and shows the same bias....only one mentioned in that verse is "ho theos" (Yahweh) the other is rightly called "a god" or 'a divine one'.

I reject your illogical explanations....and allow the scriptures to speak for themselves. "Theos" doesn't just mean "Yahweh", just as the title "Lord" doesn't mean just "Yahweh" either.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

Amazon.com

www.amazon.com

"
After the resurrection, Jesus was able to eat (Luke 24:42-43). He showed people His hands and feet with the nail prints in them (Luke 24:39; John 20:27), and people even grabbed His feet and worshipped Him (Matt. 28:9). As the reports of Jesus’ resurrection were spreading, Thomas, who was doubting the resurrection of Christ, said, “Unless I shall see in His hands the imprint of the nails, and put my finger into the place of the nails, and put my hand into His side, I will not believe.” (John 20:25). Later, Jesus appeared to Thomas and said to him, “Reach here your finger, and see My hands; and reach here your hand, and put it into My side; and be not unbelieving, but believing.” (John 20:27).

If Jesus’ body had not risen, then He would not have feet and hands with the same holes of the nails of the crucifixion. Consider the following verses as further proof that His very body was raised:

• “When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in their midst, and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 And when He had said this, He showed them both His hands and His side. The disciples, therefore, rejoiced when they saw the Lord.” (John 20:19-20).
• “And He said to them, “Why are you troubled, and why do doubts arise in your hearts? 39 “See My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself; touch Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see that I have.” (Luke 24:38-39).

It is obvious that Jesus was raised in the same body in which He died–with the same holes in His hands and feet."

Jesus' Resurrection was physical

The resurrection of Jesus is a fundamental and essential doctrine of Christianity. It is so important that without it Christianity is false.

carm.org

John 2:19-21

“Jesus answered and said to them, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” 20 The Jews, therefore, said, “It took forty-six years to build this temple, and will You raise it up in three days?” 21 But He was speaking of the temple of His body.” (John 2:19-21).

"
1 Cor. 15:35, 39, 42-44

35 But someone will say, “How are the dead raised? And with what kind of body do they come?…. 39 All flesh is not the same flesh, but there is one flesh of men, and another flesh of beasts, and another flesh of birds, and another of fish. . . 42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown a perishable body, it is raised an imperishable body; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body.

Verse 44 above is used in an attempt to establish the idea that Jesus did not rise physically but spiritually. Of course, I’ve already established above that Jesus was raised in the same body He died in–with the same holes in His hands and feet. We also saw that Jesus proclaimed He had flesh and bones (Luke 24:39). "

The sad part is, the JW's have been brainwashed to believe that God destroyed Jesus body, and that He "manufactured" bodies as needed to prove He had risen from the dead. They have even been brainwashed to accept a false definition of what resurrection means, all based on a misreading of Peter.

Never mind that Jesus said to the Pharisees, if they destroyed His body, in three days He would raise it up! Aunty Jane came up with a good one- the body Jesus raised was the church! I had no idea the Pharisees destroyed teh church before it was even born.

 

[Ronald Nolette]

"Being put to death in the flesh (θανατωθεις μεν σαρκ). First aorist passive participle of θανατοω, old verb (from θανατος death), to put to death. Σαρκ is locative case of σαρξ.

But quickened in the spirit (ζωοποιηθεις δε πνευματ). First aorist passive participle of ζωοποιεω rare (Aristotle) verb (from ζωοποιος making alive), to make alive. The participles are not antecedent to απεθανεν, but simultaneous with it. There is no such construction as the participle of subsequent action. The spirit of Christ did not die when his flesh did, but "was endued with new and greater powers of life" (Thayer). See 1 Corinthians 15:22 for the use of the verb for the resurrection of the body. But the use of the word πνευματ (locative case) in contrast with σαρκ starts Peter's mind off in a long comparison by way of illustration that runs from verses 1 Peter 3:19-22. "

1 Peter 3 - Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament - Bible Commentaries - StudyLight.org

1 Peter 3, Robertson's Word Pictures in the New Testament, One of over 125 Bible commentaries freely available, this commentary, verse-by-verse, paints word pictures to describe the New Testament

www.studylight.org

the greater point being that the words "in" or "by" are not present in the Greek. they are added in English for better English grammar. Also given that resurrection is a rising from the dead and Jesus promised He would raise His body and given that His body was completely drained of blood (the life of the flesh is the blood) He was made alive a new way- by the Spirit!

Jesus is the firstfruits of the rising from the dead as Paul declared. where the old body puts on new characteristics. What was mortal becomes immortal, what was corruptible becomes incorruptible. IOW What was the goal of God in the garden of Eden and did not happen, now happens in Jesus!

The atoms of the dead will be reconsituted and instead of being mortal- they will be immortal, and we who are alive- we also will be changed so that we will no longer be mortal and corruptible.

That is what Satan is using the Watchtower to lie to those poor folks.

 

[Wrangler]

"Theos" doesn't just mean "Yahweh", just as the title "Lord" doesn't mean just "Yahweh" either.

Some time ago you listed some common myths believed in Christendom. I forget what they all were. However, what needs to be added is the myth that there is one lord and one god. (See thread REAL lowercase gods in Scripture)

For Americans, we may have one President (note use of capitalization). However, there are many presidents of other countries and almost every company has presidents. Likewise, 'lord' and 'god' are synonymous titles of authority.

In my view, Christendom has deliberately taken out of context "For us" there is one god and one lord to deny the many others that exist in reality. They do this to advance - under false pretenses - their doctrine.

So indoctrinated are they in this myth, they do believe theos can only mean God (note use of capital). Who are you? Not merely a witness. You are not merely a witness to god or capital-God. You are certainly not theos wittnesses. You are a witness to the undeniable and explicit name of the Creator, the LORD God almighty in Scripture. (Whose name, they know is not Jesus).

@Peterlag pointed out that other titles and identifiers (such as I am) are not his name. They have no argument for this but will not abandon their idol. So, they attack relentlessly. You not answering their 'serious question' to their satisfaction does not make you wrong and them right. Indeed, the intention was a setup, designed for you to fail. (NOTE how reluctant they are to admit you've made any valid points).

 

[Wrangler]

The sad part is, the JW's have been brainwashed to believe that God destroyed Jesus body

As true as this may be, it is not a salvation issue, right?

 

[The Learner]

The sad part is, the JW's have been brainwashed to believe that God destroyed Jesus body, and that He "manufactured" bodies as needed to prove He had risen from the dead. They have even been brainwashed to accept a false definition of what resurrection means, all based on a misreading of Peter.

Never mind that Jesus said to the Pharisees, if they destroyed His body, in three days He would raise it up! Aunty Jane came up with a good one- the body Jesus raised was the church! I had no idea the Pharisees destroyed teh church before it was even born.

Acts 2:31
King James Version
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

Psalm 16:10
King James Version
10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption.

 

[The Learner]

the greater point being that the words "in" or "by" are not present in the Greek. they are added in English for better English grammar. Also given that resurrection is a rising from the dead and Jesus promised He would raise His body and given that His body was completely drained of blood (the life of the flesh is the blood) He was made alive a new way- by the Spirit!

Jesus is the firstfruits of the rising from the dead as Paul declared. where the old body puts on new characteristics. What was mortal becomes immortal, what was corruptible becomes incorruptible. IOW What was the goal of God in the garden of Eden and did not happen, now happens in Jesus!

The atoms of the dead will be reconsituted and instead of being mortal- they will be immortal, and we who are alive- we also will be changed so that we will no longer be mortal and corruptible.

That is what Satan is using the Watchtower to lie to those poor folks.

"
In grammar, the locative case (abbreviated loc) is a grammatical case which indicates a location. It corresponds vaguely to the English prepositions "in", "on", "at", and "by". The locative case belongs to the general local cases, together with the lative and separative case.

The locative case exists in many language groups."

...
Greek
In Ancient Greek, the locative merged with the Proto-Indo-European dative, so that the Greek dative represents the Proto-Indo-European dative, instrumental, and locative. The dative with the preposition ἐν en "in" and the dative of time (e.g., τῇ τρίτῃ ἡμέρᾳ (tēî trítēi hēmérāi), which means "on the third day") are examples of locative datives. Some early texts, in particular Homer, retain the locative in some words (for example ἠῶθεν (ēôthen) – at dawn, Iliad 24.401).

From my post above,

"Being put to death in the flesh (θανατωθεις μεν σαρκ). First aorist passive participle of θανατοω, old verb (from θανατος death), to put to death. Σαρκ is locative case of σαρξ.

But quickened in the spirit (ζωοποιηθεις δε πνευματ).

Needless to say even if those words were added, I am still going with well knowned Greek Scholars and the many super trained Translators.

 

[The Learner]

His Spirit should be carrying on the Messianic work, I answer, why not? Surely the reply to the penitent thief implies a πορευθῆναι , and in that πορευθῆναι a joy and triumph sufficient to be the subject of a consoling promise at that terrible moment. And might not the reasoning be turned, with as much propriety? Might not we say that it is impossible to conceive of our Lord during that time as other than employed in the Spirit in which He continued, not to exist merely, but to live? That, granted that His dying words imply a special delivering of his Spirit into the hands of his Father, and by consequence, a resting of his Spirit in those Hands in the death-state, yet must we not conceive of His Spirit as going thither, where “the righteous souls are in the hand of God?” And if so, who shall place a limit to His power or will to communicate with any departed spirits of whatever character? So that, while I would not say that the conditions of the passage are not satisfied by the supposition that the event happened after the Resurrection, I believe there can be no reason for saying that they are not, on the other hypothesis. And I own, that the ἐν ᾧ καί inclines me to this other. It seems most naturally to be taken as a resumptive explanation of πνεύματι with a view to something ( 1Pe 3:21 ) which is to follow; and the ἐν , capable indeed of being otherwise explained, yet seems to favour this idea, that the Lord was strictly speaking ἐν πνεύματι when that happened which is related.

From all then which has been said, it will be gathered, that with the great majority of Commentators, ancient and modern, I understand these words to say, that our Lord, in His disembodied state, did go to the place of detention of departed spirits, and did there announce His work of redemption, preach salvation in fact, to the disembodied spirits of those who refused to obey the voice of God when the judgment of the flood was hanging over them. "
(Alford's Greek Testament Commentary 1 Peter)

 

[The Learner]

"The starting-point of his after-suffering career was his being quickened. His being put to death was in the flesh; i.e. on the side of his nature by which he was connected with earth and had a mortal existence. His being quickened is contrasted in being not in the flesh, but in the spirit; i.e. on the side of his nature by which he was above earth and had an immortal existence. At death there takes place a separation of soul and body(James 2:26 added by me). During the time Christ's body was in the grave his soul was in Hades. It was Peter who showed himself alive to this important fact in his comments on the words of the sixteenth psalm, "Thou wilt not leave my soul in hell," in his sermon on the day of Pentecost. The expression of the fact in the Apostles' Creed is that he "descended into Hades." By "Hades" is denoted the invisible world, with the special association of the world of the dead. Between our death and the resurrection we are to be in art incomplete state in so far as soul and body are not to be united.

...

(3) Being quickened, he was also active in Hades. "In which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison, "The Pulpit Commentaries